George Bush's CV.. This man is a fucking fool.

[asymmetrical1]

Btw Matty great posts from you bro! You too asymmetrical!

you too palme, matty has awsome posts

[Matty]

thats the problem you try and reason too much.....you cannot reason with the likes of Bin laden or Hussain etc etc...sometimes you have to throw the "reasoning" out and take advasive action like we are doing.....and we are doing a hell of a job.....First Iraq then Syria then North Korea.........We cannot make every tribe/country on the world happy, but we as Americans can keep ourselves happy.........BTW Bush will be here for another 4 years so deal with it.


Matty you also said "You're right about there being those who want to do us harm for some reason or another - but violence begets violence. Anger begets anger. Death begets death. And revenge begets revenge. Where does it end?"...........I have news for you it might not never end, but i can assure you that it will not end by having little "meetings" with people who will never listen. Freedom isnt free.

"Throw reasoning out.." - That's a frightening statement on many levels. Never should one abandon reason - this is how bad decisions are made.

Did you ever think that perhaps it is the US that cannot be reasoned with? That perhaps the demands we make on other countries are so off base that it is our own government that is being unreasonable? Isn't it possible? And if so, why should we defend this? To "keep ourselves happy"? That is a very selfish position to take, don't you think? "Screw the rest of the world...as long as I can buy cheap gas for my car and have the freedom to buy whatever I want" Is this the message we want to project?

"Keeping ourselves happy" is what's causing all the problems in the first place. We do not own the world's resources. Period. Yet we expect the world to bow to our every demand. This is not a productive attitude especially when dealing with countries of different culture and belief systems.

"Bush will be here for another 4..." - even more frightening...and not with my vote.

"...having meetings with people who will never listen" - not sure I understand this. Are you speaking of GWB and Unocal meetings with the Taliban to discuss oil pipelines from the Caspian sea through Afghanistan into Pakistan that occurred only months before 9/11/01? Evidently they didn't go as planned and talks collapsed. Then 9/11 happened and now the pipeline is back on again. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Peace.Matty.

[Red Ketchup]

We liberated Iraq......HELLO.........They are dieing to help make the whole world safe from evil.......

No offence bro, but I'll swallow that one when I see the US intervene in the dozens and dozens of brutal dictatorships in Africa, Asia and South America with the numbers and zeal showed in Irak.

Go to the Amnesty International website and check out the stats for countries like Burundi, Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Angola, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Sudan, have a look at Yemen, Jordan and even Saudi Arabia...

Irak was a Club-Med compared to many of those countries... yet I don't see the reps or the dems sending the US army barging in there to make things right...

Having said that, I ***do agree*** that getting rid of Saddam was a good thing, but please don't insult my intelligence by saying the invasion of Irak was anything but politically motivated.

Again, I think most Americans should be a little more critical and demand more accountability from their government. Does it not worry you that more Americans military personnal have died in Irak to this day than in the same time frame in Vietnam?

You are right, freedom isn't free... but you must also choose your battles wisely.

Red

[mass junkie]

This thread has gone far enough.....It is now closed.................haha.....I wish I had that power!!!

[asymmetrical1]

This thread has gone far enough.....It is now closed.................haha.....I wish I had that power!!!

this thread is post whore paradise

[Matty]

We liberated Iraq......HELLO.........They are dieing to help make the whole world safe from evil.......

But I thought the purpose of invading Iraq was to rid them of WMD? They are dying to obtain/maintain control of national interests...oil. By your own statements...."but we as Americans can keep ourselves happy..." So how does "liberating the Iraqis" fall in line with this thinking? Are you happier now that the Iraqis have been liberated? Do you think GWB sleeps better now knowing that Iraq is "free." And by "free", of course, I mean free to pump oil revenue into it's new owners...Shell, Mobile, Exxon, BP...get it?

And let's touch again on the whole "liberation" stories of how awful Saddam was to his people...even though we looked the other way for years until it served our interests. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but the following is rather intersting.

In the months before the first Gulf War began, the media uncritically repeated the claim that Iraqi soldiers were removing Kuwaiti babies from incubators. The story was launched by the testimony of a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl before the Congressional Human Rights Caucus in October 1990. Eventually, as repeated in the media by the first President Bush and countless others, it blossomed into a tale involving over 300 Kuwaiti babies.

There was such an upswelling over this - people couldn't believe it and demanded action...casting reason aside, right? Had some further investigation taken place they would have discovered that what was not reported at the time was the fact that the public relations company Hill & Knowlton was partly behind the effort, and the girl who testified was actually the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to Washington who had never set foot in the hospital. Hill and Knowlton had actually polled Americans to see what exactly would tug their heart strings and whip them into a fury.

Nice, huh? See how easy it is to sway public opinion?

Peace. Matty.

[Catamount]

You know what I could give two shits if we invaded Iraq for their oil if that was the true reasoning behind it. In 20 years 85% of fussil fuel will be produced from the Middle East. Meaning that the US will depend on them and sway the powers towards them if we don't find an alternative energy source. So do I mind that we ousted a regime that will soon gain power such as Iraq....nope not at all because I'd feel a little uneasy.

[bermich]

I dont know why people are so upset about us being in IRAQ. It makes me sick to know that people protest the idea that a leader stays in power because they dont want to use military force. All those peace loving protestors dont get the point. They are safe while IRAQ people are slaughtered and the HIPPIES are ok with that.

FUCK THAT. If you were being tortured and lived in a shit hole, you would want help. Regardless of our intentions, IRAQ will be a better desert.
Lets see them protest in IRAQ while Saddam was in power.

[BOUNCER]

We liberated Iraq......HELLO.........They are dieing to help make the whole world safe from evil.......

Are you for fucking real. Where's the liberation? and if you did "liberate" the Iraqi people where's the popular revolt against the rebel attacks on US/UK/UN and Red Cross personel ?.

And please don't anyone call these attacks on Iraqi soil against this very small colilition 'terrorist attacks', because when you fight a foreign invader in your own country your fighting for your freedom. The Iraqi people never asked America in to 'Liberate' it from anyone. If they weren't sitting on the worlds second largest supply of oil that clown GWB wouldn't be sending some fine young American's to their death.

[Catamount]

It's getting kind of old hearing about how awful our government is from an outsider

[PurePower]

i didnt know yall had top secret clearence..... =-)

[PurePower]

All i have said were the facts....all you guys are doing is making assumptions based on CNN........ =-)

We also gave saddam over 10 years to comply, but he didnt and now he will be killed.

i just dont want this shit to turn into a members flaming each other.......There is nothing anyone on this board can do about what is happening

[Cycleon]

For all you foriegn US bashers:

Name one country that the US "took over" that it still has charge of - name even one - most are infinitely better off than before we got there and frankly about the best thing that could happen to many 3rd world countries is to be invaded by the US - in fact I am surprised that somewhere some genious hasnt gotten the idea to start a war with the US so when we come over he can surrender and have us spend US tax money to build up his backward, corrupt state. Because once we do, our soldiers and public cant wait to get everyone back home to the greatest nation on earth and let everyone go along their happy way.

While you are at it, name one country that the UN has taken over that it is NOT STILL IN CHARGE OF! The moment a UN administration is foisted on a people you can be sure that it will never end, for it supplies jobs to worthless, feckless diplomats who are past their prime in their own countries but cant do anything else and still need a job. Cambodia, anyone? Bosnia? shall we go down the list?

And while we are at it - Name the last time either Ireland or Sweeden did jack shit for "democracy" and freedom in any part of the world - when is the last time they risked their lives or money to even attempt to make the world a better place?

So when you enlighted few can answer these little questions - then you can maybe have the right to critisize MY country who is actually doing something, tho admitedly in an imperfect way - then you can give us your SOLUTIONS of what YOUR little country is going to do about the worlds evils besides hide behind its own borders and expect someone else to do the hard work while you preen as if your country's voice has any merit.

[Mr. Sparkle]

very well said

[BOUNCER]

For all you foriegn US bashers:



And while we are at it - Name the last time either Ireland or Sweeden did jack shit for "democracy" and freedom in any part of the world - when is the last time they risked their lives or money to even attempt to make the world a better place?

.

Mmmmm well where do I start on this one. Speaking of my own personal experience I was serving in Lebanon in 1988-1989 when the UN won the noble prize for peace. I also served with UNISOM I and II (Somalia) and I was back in Lebanon in 89-2000 to oversea the Israeli withdrawal from that country. Presently I'm on standby to mobilise for a tour of duty in Liberia (An American fuck up). If I don't travel there by mid December I'll go there or Kosovo early in the new year. Just in Lebanon alone we've lost over 250 personel in the service for peace. Out of respect I won't mention America's short tour of duty in Lebanon and its tactical withdrawal all the way back to San Franisco.
When Gen.Higgins (US) was kidnapped and mudered in Lebanon it was Irish peace keepers who negotiated the release of his remains.
I think you mentioned Sweden there, I served with Swedish peace keepers in Lebanon too. A fine body of men.

As for countries you've invaded who have not been better off afterwards, honestly I couldn't answer that one off the top of my head because Vietnam and Somalia spring readily to mind.

You see I also believe America is a great country, just a pity its being led by a war monger(s) and your all so damn sensitive to a little critisim. Your all like a kid taking his football away when the game goes against him.

Bush is a fool.

[BOUNCER]

this thread is post whore paradise

Yeah isn't it great, and to think. I started this when I was drunk as a lord!!.

[BOUNCER]

So when you enlighted few can answer these little questions - then you can maybe have the right to critisize MY country who is actually doing something, tho admitedly in an imperfect way - then you can give us your SOLUTIONS of what YOUR little country is going to do about the worlds evils besides hide behind its own borders and expect someone else to do the hard work while you preen as if your country's voice has any merit.

Reading above, I take it I can speak now teacher

[markas214]

You see I also believe America is a great country, just a pity its being led by a war monger(s) and your all so damn sensitive to a little critisim. Your all like a kid taking his football away when the game goes against him.

Bush is a fool.[/QUOTE]


Bouncer, don't place all Americans into the same catagory. We are split 50/50 between right wing idealogues and open minded individuals who prefer peace to war and believe Bush got this country into Iraq as a personal vendetta to settle a score for his Daddy with the help of Bush the Senior's friends Cheney, Rumsfeild. et al.

[BOUNCER]

I wasn't trying that Markus, I started the thread about Bush being a fool and others side tracked it because they thought it was an attack on their country. I tried to keep to the subject but when someone called me out and asked me to name just one country where Ireland or indeed Sweden had served in I then had to reply to that. One thing I hate is unresearched replies. I didn't take offence and try to defend my country, I simply stated just a few examples where Ireland had and was presently serving and not hiding behind our borders.

Btw, when I said "war monger(s)" I thought people here would know I was talking about the Bush administration.

[markas214]

Bouncer, I know what you meant about war mongers and take no offense from your posts. The thing is they only war monger when oil is in the picture. It's funny how the president comes from oil business as well as many in his staff and we in the USA are paying record prices for gasoline. While it seems obvious Bush is enriching his friends most Americans are either to apethetic, blinded by ideology or ignorant to notice. If you disagree with the administration you are not a "True" (quoting Pure Power) American and your patriotism is questioned. You've really got to be in this country to get a true sense of the bigotry and narrow mindedness of the right wing conservative political propagandists.When France did not stand by us in the war with Iraq the US congress had the french fries in their cafeteria renamed "Freedom Fries". The chlidishness of these fools is embarressing.

[bigol'legs]

i didnt know yall had top secret clearence..... =-)

I do...

[Cycleon]

Bouncer, I know what you meant about war mongers and take no offense from your posts. The thing is they only war monger when oil is in the picture. It's funny how the president comes from oil business as well as many in his staff and we in the USA are paying record prices for gasoline. While it seems obvious Bush is enriching his friends most Americans are either to apethetic, blinded by ideology or ignorant to notice. If you disagree with the administration you are not a "True" (quoting Pure Power) American and your patriotism is questioned. You've really got to be in this country to get a true sense of the bigotry and narrow mindedness of the right wing conservative political propagandists.When France did not stand by us in the war with Iraq the US congress had the french fries in their cafeteria renamed "Freedom Fries". The chlidishness of these fools is embarressing.

But nobody bothers to understand that France and Russia had a multi-Billion $$$ oil contract with Saddam - and they didnt want that to end - yes, that is right, they were the ones who were buying all of Iraqs oil at below market prices before the war -and the UN was making an ENORMOUS sum off of administering the sanction fund that kept Iraqi oil money while their buddys got rich - but you dont know about that do you? and now that you do, you dont care because ONLY BUSH is EVIL and has evil intent - those nice men and women at the UN are only in it for world peace and harmony - and so are the french and the russians

bouncer - yours deserves a good response. Ill see if I can get back on it when I have a little time

[markas214]

Cycleon. We saved the ass of the French 2 times in the last century and they return the favor with contempt for the USA and Americans. I have no sympathy for them. The great thing about living in this country is the freedom to disagree with the goverment. I do not like GW's politics but I wouldn't live anywhere else and respect his position as president. Iraq ows billions to the Frtench and Germans that they will never see with or without Saddam. That was their mistake. I just can't see us spending half a trillion dollars defeating and then rebuilding a country who was not capable of harming us and putting the cost on my children and grandkids. President Bush declared war on terrorism and advised evryone to go shopping. Instead of asking Americans to sacrifice to help pay for the war he cut taxes especially for his rich benefactors. I can go on and on but will step out of this thread now. It's amazing how polarized the beliefs of Americans are and how each side is certain it is correct and believes the other side is ignorant. There really isn't much middle ground in US politics.

[JohnDoe1234]

But nobody bothers to understand that France and Russia had a multi-Billion $$$ oil contract with Saddam - and they didnt want that to end - yes, that is right, they were the ones who were buying all of Iraqs oil at below market prices before the war -and the UN was making an ENORMOUS sum off of administering the sanction fund that kept Iraqi oil money while their buddys got rich - but you dont know about that do you? and now that you do, you dont care because ONLY BUSH is EVIL and has evil intent - those nice men and women at the UN are only in it for world peace and harmony - and so are the french and the russians

bouncer - yours deserves a good response. Ill see if I can get back on it when I have a little time

You are 100% correct. France and Germany tried to soud like the voices of reason and humanity, saying the war was unjust. They didn't give a rats ass about right or wrong, they had a vested finacial interest in Iraq. Plus France was also guilty of violating sanctions against Iraq, by secretly selling arms to them. It's one thing to be opposed to something morally, it's quite another to be a fucking hypocrit.

[JohnDoe1234]

This is a little of topic, but I can't resist pointing out French failures, enjoy.

The Complete Military History of France
>
> Gallic Wars: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000
years
> of
> French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.
>
> Hundred Years War: Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic
who
> inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare: "France's
armies
> are
> victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."
>
> Italian Wars: Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever
lose
> two wars when fighting Italians.
>
> Wars of Religion: France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.
>
> Thirty Years War: France is technically not a participant, but manages
to
> get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the
other
> participants started ignoring her.
>
> War of Devolution: Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as
> chapeaux.
>
> The Dutch War: Tied.
>
> War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War:
Lost,
> but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles
the
> world over to label the period as the height of French military power.
>
> War of the Spanish Succession: Lost. The War also gave the French
their
> first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.
>
> American Revolution: In a move that will become quite familiar to
future
> Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw
far
> more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome" and leads to
the
> Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does
most of
> the fighting."
>
> French Revolution: Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was
also
> French.
>
> The Napoleonic Wars: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First
Rule!)
> due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a
British
> footwear designer.
>
> The Franco-Prussian War: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk
Frat
> boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.
>
> World War I: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the
United
> States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only
> sleep
> with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
widespread
> use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the
French
> bloodline.
>
> World War II: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States
and
> Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.
>
> War in Indochina: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with
the
> Dien Bien Flu.
>
> Algerian Rebellion: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western
army by
> a
> Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First
Rule of
> Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is
identical to
> the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch,
> Spanish,
> Vietnamese and Esquimaux.
>
> War on Terrorism: France, keeping in mind its recent history,
surrenders
> to
> Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to
Vietnamese
> ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
>
> The question for any country silly enough to count on the French
should
> not
> be, "Can we count on the French?" but rather, "How long until France
> collapses?"

[JohnDoe1234]

I'm sorry guys, one more

"My favorite bumper sticker in Washington D.C. right now is the one that says 'First Iraq, then France'." Tom Brokaw

"The French announced today that they would not help us remove Saddam from Iraq. Well Duh! They didn't even help us remove Hitler from France." Jay Leno

"France said this week they need more evidence to convince them Saddam is a threat. Yeah, last time France asked for more evidence it came rollin thru Paris with a German Flag on it." Dave Letterman

......and my all time favorite! Why are all the highways in France lined with trees? So the Germans can march in the shade!!!

Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage. unknown.

France has neither winter, nor summer, nor morals. France is miserable because it is filled with Frenchmen, and Frenchmen are miserable because they live in France. Mark Twain

Only thing worse than a Frenchman is a Frenchman who lives in Canada. Ted Nugent

The only way the French are going in with us is if we tell them we found truffles in Iraq.

War without France would be like ... uh ... World War II What do you call 100,000 Frenchmen with their hands up? The French Army Q. How do you stop a french Tank? A. Shoot the guy pushing.

Q. How many frenchman does it take to defend Paris. A. We don't know, it's never been tried.

The best French bashing line heard over the last week is:
"It is important to remember that the French have always been there when they needed us."

"I have a french rifle from WWII for sale...never been fired and dropped only once." Me

[Red Ketchup]

This is a little of topic, but I can't resist pointing out French failures, enjoy.

The Complete Military History of France

Where did you go to school bro? Thats got to be one of the most innacurately biased and unbelievably bigoted things I've read in a long time on AR...

I take deep offence...

(I am sure of course you are aware that the day the US invaded Irak - and for the duration of the war - France not only opened their airspace to your war planes, but allowed them to land on their air bases for refueling and maintenance, as well as refuelling your planes with their air-tankers, and germany did the same and to boot German soldiers manned the US bases in Germany while the US military was needed in Irak).

Sorry bro... there is nothing I enjoy more than a good debate, but open bigotry disgusts me.

Red

[Da Bull]

matty...nice reads bro...my compliments..All the best DB

[JohnDoe1234]

Where did you go to school bro? Thats got to be one of the most innacurately biased and unbelievably bigoted things I've read in a long time on AR...

I take deep offence...

(I am sure of course you are aware that the day the US invaded Irak - and for the duration of the war - France not only opened their airspace to your war planes, but allowed them to land on their air bases for refueling and maintenance, as well as refuelling your planes with their air-tankers, and germany did the same and to boot German soldiers manned the US bases in Germany while the US military was needed in Irak).

Sorry bro... there is nothing I enjoy more than a good debate, but open bigotry disgusts me.

Red

Relax Red, it was meant to be somewhat light hearted. I thought people would find it amusing.

[asymmetrical1]

Where did you go to school bro? Thats got to be one of the most innacurately biased and unbelievably bigoted things I've read in a long time on AR...

I take deep offence...

(I am sure of course you are aware that the day the US invaded Irak - and for the duration of the war - France not only opened their airspace to your war planes, but allowed them to land on their air bases for refueling and maintenance, as well as refuelling your planes with their air-tankers, and germany did the same and to boot German soldiers manned the US bases in Germany while the US military was needed in Irak).

Sorry bro... there is nothing I enjoy more than a good debate, but open bigotry disgusts me.

Red

good post red...go get em

[Da Bull]

good post red...go get em

LMAO.....you have an endless suply as gasoline to through on the fires

[asymmetrical1]

LMAO.....you have an endless suply as gasoline to through on the fires

hehehe.....don't think this will ever end

[Da Bull]

hehehe.....don't think this will ever end

Not as long as your surplus holds up

[PurePower]

I do...

LOL.

[asymmetrical1]

Not as long as your surplus holds up

DB, you rep., dem. or green party?....

[Da Bull]

DB, you rep., dem. or green party?....

dem bro...but I enjoy listening to all sides of the argument!!

[Da Bull]

matty's post were awesome though.....Well written and to the point with all the facts in places...I feel better knowing they're intelligent young men out there....the guys a smart man....DB

[palme]

>
> Gallic Wars: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000
years
> of
> French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

That italian was just Julius Ceasar

[Matty]

Thanks to Palme and DB for their compliments.

Peace.Matty.

[Mandinka]

You are 100% correct. France and Germany tried to soud like the voices of reason and humanity, saying the war was unjust. They didn't give a rats ass about right or wrong, they had a vested finacial interest in Iraq. Plus France was also guilty of violating sanctions against Iraq, by secretly selling arms to them. It's one thing to be opposed to something morally, it's quite another to be a fucking hypocrit.

Actually he is not correct , I live in Germany and I can promise you the principle reason why they did not get involved in that war had far more to do with the sentiment of the people in both countries. Please post credible sources on where Germany and France are owed oil monies , I was only aware of this with regard to Russia. Where are the WMD which the US used as an excuse for entering into that country? Since they cannot be found then George Bush is de facto a war criminal. That is the long and the short of it , if the American people bought into this thing sufficiently to have themselves hoodwinked then they are as equally culpable as the Germans who voted in the Nazis.