Where did the bill of rights go?

**Elliot** · 01-14-2004, 10:44 AM

U.S. Pushes Forward on Passenger Risk Database

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government is moving forward on a computerized system containing background information on air travelers despite resistance from airlines and privacy advocates, The Washington Post reported on Monday.

The government will require airlines and air travel booking companies to let officials see passenger records, the newspaper said. Passengers through U.S. airports would be scored with a number and a color that ranks their perceived threat to the aircraft they are traveling on, the paper said.

A separate program is due to be launched this year that would give frequent fliers quicker passage through security checks if they volunteer personal information to the government, the newspaper said.

Privacy and consumer advocates say the programs could be discriminatory because some passengers would be screened more carefully than others.

The two programs would supplement the fingerprinting and photographing of travelers arriving in the United States that was launched last week.

aint that a bitch?

**Pudgy** · 01-14-2004, 10:56 AM

philidelphia, no thats the liberty bell, umm washington ?

**LuvMuhRoids** · 01-14-2004, 11:44 AM

Yah and the new patriot act is something else too. Now officials can just come along and gather info on you with no judge consent or signature on a piece of paper. Any Fed with a lil suspicion of you can just start an investigation on you at any time for any reason with out explanation. IMO it wont last long. Even though we have the paranoia of terroists threat the american people will act quickly as soon as a fed screws up an investigation by prodding unnecessarily and a class action lawsuit comes out. Yep wont last for long.

**Elliot** · 01-14-2004, 12:33 PM

i doubt it man.. sooner or later theres going to be another attack and we go back to terrorist alert and more laws sooner or later we're going to like cattle..

**Red Ketchup** · 01-14-2004, 01:56 PM

Just remember, you have to fight hard to get basic rights... and every time you let one erode away in the name of "safety", "security" or whatever other government fabrication, it gets harder and harder to get those rights back without a hard fight.

Red

**saboudian** · 01-14-2004, 02:53 PM

Ya i beleive Jefferson had some quote about freedoms and security, can't quite remember it, but then again there was no terrorism in the age of jefferson.

So far this admin is a bit scary with all these acts and I even heard that there was a bill on the floor to unban the draft. Just makes me wonder what country is next. Also a bit scary since I'm still in college.

**jeffylyte** · 01-15-2004, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by saboudian

Ya i beleive Jefferson had some quote about freedoms and security, can't quite remember it, but then again there was no terrorism in the age of jefferson.

So far this admin is a bit scary with all these acts and I even heard that there was a bill on the floor to unban the draft. Just makes me wonder what country is next. Also a bit scary since I'm still in college.

actually it was ben franklin. its one of my fav quotes

"Those who wish to sacrifice liberty for safety, deserve neither safety nor liberty"

and while they had no "terrorism per se" they engaged in a war that they thought they had a better than 50% chance of losing, knowing they would all die if they did. remember at the time England was the superpower of the world.

**hoss827** · 01-15-2004, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Red Ketchup

Just remember, you have to fight hard to get basic rights... and every time you let one erode away in the name of "safety", "security" or whatever other government fabrication, it gets harder and harder to get those rights back without a hard fight.

Red

Very very true...

**spywizard** · 01-15-2004, 08:59 AM

Remember....

the right to "Bear Arms" was not just so we could hunt and target practice..

but to protect us from our own government..

Not that i advocate anything like that..
And remember.. please don't register your weapons.. (if you have any of which i do not)

**groverman1** · 01-15-2004, 11:08 AM

It's slowly going bye bye. Our empire is crumbling before our feet.

**tryingtogetbig** · 01-15-2004, 11:20 AM

What can any of you NOT do today that you could do 10-15 years ago?

**Elliot** · 01-15-2004, 11:56 AM

get on a plane with out having my balls scanned.. have you be to an airport?! they're like a year away from cavity searches..

**tryingtogetbig** · 01-15-2004, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by ElliotNess

get on a plane with out having my balls scanned.. have you be to an airport?! they're like a year away from cavity searches..

Be thankful you can still fly somewhere. Post 9-11 before all of the security was put in place the airline industry almost went bankrupt. No one wanted to fly then.

I do have to fly a bunch myself...and yes it's a pain in the arse. But thank goodness I can still fly and do it at a reasonable price. It definitely beats driving, beats the airplane getting hi-jacked while I'm on it also!

peace,

ttgb

**3Vandoo** · 01-15-2004, 12:05 PM

A bill is written on paper, paper can be destroy or we can erase what we want on it, or write more!

Nothing is Golden! Never was!

**Elliot** · 01-15-2004, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by 3Vandoo

A bill is written on paper, paper can be destroy or we can erase what we want on it, or write more!

Nothing is Golden! Never was!

aint that a bitch..?

**Animal Cracker** · 01-15-2004, 12:14 PM

Where did the Bill of Rights go? The Democrats/Liberals stole them! This is not a First Amd. issue..I do not appreciate the fact that someone is checking my background when I want to fly to se my mother...but anything thing that makes it more diffucult for those who DO have something to hide...is a tolerable thing.

**3Vandoo** · 01-15-2004, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by ElliotNess

aint that a bitch..?

dont forget a bitch can be ****ed too!

**Red Ketchup** · 01-15-2004, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by BamaSlamma

Where did the Bill of Rights go? The Democrats/Liberals stole them! This is not a First Amd. issue..I do not appreciate the fact that someone is checking my background when I want to fly to se my mother...but anything thing that makes it more diffucult for those who DO have something to hide...is a tolerable thing.

Is it?

And how far are you willing to let the government strip your rights away?

Now getting on a plane is a nightmare of inefficient bureaucracy and overzealous (and mostly useless) police action... kneejerk over-reaction... as is walking into a government building, or even publicly expressing your opinion on your political leaders...

Whats next?... are you going to need to ask your government for a "travel permit" to go from state to state, or go to another country? How far off are you from that at this point? After all it would only make sense to "stop those who have something to hide".

The old "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind having your privacy invaded" argument made a lot of sense in the former USSR or Nazi germany where government controlled all, but in the country that's supposed to be the bastion of freedom and democracy it's absolutely ludicrous. Makes about as much sense as having all your teeth ripped out just to make sure you don't get a cavity...

Of course this is only the opinions of an outsider, but I do hope Americans remember soon what that big statue on Ellis Island the french gave you means and stands for. I understand 9/11 caused a massive trauma in the average Americans sense of safety, but you got to keep on living... the way I see it Osama caused more damage to the US by causing mass paranoia and eroding your freedoms and liberty a little here and a little there than he did by killing a lot of innocent people.

Red

**jeffylyte** · 01-15-2004, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by BamaSlamma

Where did the Bill of Rights go? The Democrats/Liberals stole them! This is not a First Amd. issue..I do not appreciate the fact that someone is checking my background when I want to fly to se my mother...but anything thing that makes it more diffucult for those who DO have something to hide...is a tolerable thing.

you mean like laws that make it harder to get juice or easier to get caught? THe plain and simple fact is that everyone has something to hide. be it gear, other illicit drugs, homosexuality, a medical condition, who your mistress is, the vibrator your wife uses, etc.

And as an aside, Conservatives are generally said to be more restrictive of liberties (at least as supreme court justices go). after all, it was scalia, thomas, rhenquist, and stevens (i think) that said that it was ok to do random thermal imageing of houses to look and see if anybody was doing anything illegal. There reasoning was that if you didnt know that you were being searched, then it wasnt really a search (ie your privacy was intact).

by and large conservatives "balance" government power with liberties, while liberals say that government must show a compelling interest. this is why the ACLU is generally considered a liberal organization but still stick up for the KKK's right to march and publish and speak out.

oh sorry Red, you seem to beat me to the post.

**symatech** · 01-15-2004, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Red Ketchup

Is it?

And how far are you willing to let the government strip your rights away?

Now getting on a plane is a nightmare of inefficient bureaucracy and overzealous (and mostly useless) police action... kneejerk over-reaction... as is walking into a government building, or even publicly expressing your opinion on your political leaders...

Whats next?... are you going to need to ask your government for a "travel permit" to go from state to state, or go to another country? How far off are you from that at this point? After all it would only make sense to "stop those who have something to hide".

The old "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind having your privacy invaded" argument made a lot of sense in the former USSR or Nazi germany where government controlled all, but in the country that's supposed to be the bastion of freedom and democracy it's absolutely ludicrous. Makes about as much sense as having all your teeth ripped out just to make sure you don't get a cavity...

Of course this is only the opinions of an outsider, but I do hope Americans remember soon what that big statue on Ellis Island the french gave you means and stands for. I understand 9/11 caused a massive trauma in the average Americans sense of safety, but you got to keep on living... the way I see it Osama caused more damage to the US by causing mass paranoia and eroding your freedoms and liberty a little here and a little there than he did by killing a lot of innocent people.

Red

very well said.

on another note, I dont think that all this added security bullsh1t will do any good. It simply gives people the illusion of safety. most people are fine with illusion.

and thats a badas$ qote from franklin, ive always liked it.

**Animal Cracker** · 01-16-2004, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Red Ketchup

Is it?

And how far are you willing to let the government strip your rights away?
As long as I am on the "stripping side"..I do not care. I have nothing to hideNow getting on a plane is a nightmare of inefficient bureaucracy and overzealous (and mostly useless) police action... kneejerk over-reaction... as is walking into a government building, or even publicly expressing your opinion on your political leaders...

Whats next?... are you going to need to ask your government for a "travel permit" to go from state to state, or go to another country? You mean like a passport of visa?These are all screened/approved by State depts on both sides.
How far off are you from that at this point? After all it would only make sense to "stop those who have something to hide".

The old "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind having your privacy invaded" argument made a lot of sense in the former USSR or Nazi germany where government controlled all, but in the country that's supposed to be the bastion of freedom and democracy it's absolutely ludicrous. Makes about as much sense as having all your teeth ripped out just to make sure you don't get a cavity...

Of course this is only the opinions of an outsider, but I do hope Americans remember soon what that big statue on Ellis Island the french gave you means and stands for. They can have it back..give to Angola, Algeiers, Djibuti, Iran or someother country they let run over them. I am not a NYC tourist.

I understand 9/11 caused a massive trauma in the average Americans sense of safety, but you got to keep on living... the way I see it Osama caused more damage to the US by causing mass paranoia and eroding your freedoms and liberty a little here and a little there than he did by killing a lot of innocent people.
.) Agreed..but atleast it isnt the knee jerk reaction after "Pearl Harbor"..there are no camps being set up and filled with Pakis,Kuwaitis, Somalis. etc..(if this where to happen, Brookyn would be screwed!) Red

I totally agree with your last sentences...however that is being a bit extreme..the Dept.HLS/FBI is not yet the Gestapo, the KGB or the Stasi..but if a few must suffer for the protection of the majority..so be it. I am a right-wing, pistol carrying, anti-govt, milita supporter, but when it comes to the protection of my homeland..even from its own people, do what it takes. Of course there must be limitations, laws must retrict those who enforce it...of course.
Open borders, programs such as NAFTA, not-profiling, and not allowing private carriers to screen passengers is a problem that many do not want to face, and to hadnle decisively..one gets called facist. Welcome to the new world. I do not like..I just have to live in it.