Heckler & Koch machine guns

[Lobsterman]

Been searchin the net and reading shotgun news,and man if any of you own any MP5's,91,93 etc you're sittin on a lot of cash some of these go for as high as 15,000.00 ! Alway's wanted to get a couple but you can't even get these in Conneticut

[Elliot]

arnt machine guns illegal in the US? only smei automatics like the Bushmasters...?

[Swellin]

arnt machine guns illegal in the US? only smei automatics like the Bushmasters...?

Negative. They are consider Class III weapons, or NFA items. This simply means that the price for them is about an order of magnitude greater than it would be otherwise. It also means that you either need to be a Class III dealer or jump through the hoops to get the tax stamp.
The "hoops" deter many folks, while the price deters many more. In order to purchase an NFA item, you must find a CIII dealer who will get what you want. You pay him for the weapon. He transfers the weapon into his shop. He then fills out most of the paperwork for you (or at least he should) and you fill out the rest of it. You then get two passpoort photos, two sets of fingerprints, and the signature of your CLEO (chief law enforcement officer). The CLEO does not have to give his signature, so you may not be able to acquire the weapon. For this discussion, the CLEO is either the Chief of Police, or the Sheriff for your county.
Once completed, you send in this information along with $200 for the tax stamp.
The BATFE (the old ATF) does a thorough investigation and background check....taking a minimum of four months....often 6-9 months. Once cleared, the dealer receives the stamp and can complete the transfer.
While in possession of the NFA item, the owner must have a copuy of the transfer and the stamp in his/her possession also. Failure to do so can result in up to $250,000 in fines and 10 years in prison.
You can't leave the thing in your wife's ride and say you forgot about it...you pay $$$ and go to jail.

You will not find legally obtained NFA items in the hands of criminals.

[Swellin]

Been searchin the net and reading shotgun news,and man if any of you own any MP5's,91,93 etc you're sittin on a lot of cash some of these go for as high as 15,000.00 ! Alway's wanted to get a couple but you can't even get these in Conneticut

Oh yeah, you must be looking at an MP5SD. They command a premium...$12-15k.

Forget the 93...fun...but **** near impossible to hit anything with it.

Take a look at a USP40. It is an el cheapo version of the MP5, but the only folks I know with them are LEO's.

[ironfist]

I want a full auo HK 91...Yeaha

[sp9]

great explanation swellin. I used to have a class 3 dealer that would get an attitude if I didn't buy a machine gun. He would always say, "sure you don't want a machine gun"? love it. He would take a yearly trip down to some competitions in Kentuky.

The great thing about the HK's is you have the drop in auto sear and can switch it in and out of multiple weapons. One tax stamp and other stuff.

Never a crime commited with a legally owned machine gun. I don't see how any anti-gun person can explain that one.

[Elliot]

hey i was wondering how like a full atuo m16 would cost and is it anywhere close to being obtainable..? btw i live in nyc..

[groverman1]

H&K are great guns, I would almost choose them over all others.

[Swellin]

hey i was wondering how like a full atuo m16 would cost and is it anywhere close to being obtainable..? btw i live in nyc..

Here is a map that shows which states allow silencers. Usually, all CIII are lumped together. This means that if you can't get a silencer....you can't get a full auto. Unfortunately, NY is on the "forget about it" list.



Cost for an M16 varies. It depends on when it was produced and what configuration. You can spend upwards of $12k on one. You can also find some rags for $6k.

[sp9]

Cost for an M16 varies. It depends on when it was produced and what configuration. You can spend upwards of $12k on one. You can also find some rags for $6k.

Swellin,

How much have you seen pre-brady ban Colt Sportster Competion HBARS going for now days. Got one in the closet I havn't shot in about 5 years.

Thanks. (I watched platoon for the first time in about 92 and ran out to order one).

[Swellin]

Follow this link for more info on class III sales.

http://www.classthreesupply.com/HTBAMG.htm

Here is a link to a slick little m16 that has had some conversion work done to it.
(The price is on the website.)

http://www.dndguns.com/lafrance_m16.htm

[Swellin]

Swellin,

How much have you seen pre-brady ban Colt Sportster Competion HBARS going for now days. Got one in the closet I havn't shot in about 5 years.

Thanks. (I watched platoon for the first time in about 92 and ran out to order one).

That is not one of the things I watch very closely, but I can send you in the right direction for info.

http://www.auctionarms.com

http://www.gunsamerica.com/

http://www.gunbroker.com/

http://www.ar15.com/

[sp9]

Great links. Thanks!

[KrashRoute]

GOt a USP tatical.... I love it.

[KrashRoute]

pre ban AR-15's are easily converted to full. And they by pass the brady bill so you can get what ever size mag you want I beleive. Might be cheaper to just get a preban receiver though.

[spywizard]

Question..............what do you need a full auto for???? most gunfights that end with a death the outcome is determined with something like 1.6 rounds fired........ don't be silly, you know how they came up with the .6..........

But the most used caliber of ammo used to kill is............. .22

figure the dia not the catridge...

peace

[Da Bull]

OK swellin' before I come to visit you I want a complete map of your property with land mine fields..ect..........I don't want any bouncing betties coming up at me as I step out of my car on your driveway....capeshe?????????

peace

DB

[KrashRoute]

.22's are pretty quiet

[Elliot]

why do people buy bentleys/RR's cause they are oh sooooooooo dreamy..

[spywizard]

.22 with half loads....also known as city loads........... really quiet.........

still go hypervelocity............. not too bad....

but you only get 1 shot.............too week to cycle the gas operation..

why do people buy bentleys/RR's cause they are oh sooooooooo dreamy..

[Swellin]

OK swellin' before I come to visit you I want a complete map of your property with land mine fields..ect..........I don't want any bouncing betties coming up at me as I step out of my car on your driveway....capeshe?????????

peace

DB

No anti personell stuff around here....I have dogs. They might set 'em off.


As for the double deuce...it is so cheap and easy to obtain. It is a small round that can be delivered with a small , easily concealable weapon. All of these reasons make them popular among the **** heals that use them on the street.

Of course, they are much more effective when used with a suppressor...and much more fun too!

I have some exploding targets (that make one hell of an explosion) that love to shoot with a silenced .22. All you hear is "blip...BOOM !"

As for a reason to have such a thing....because I can....because it's taboo...because it is FUN to shoot. Did you read that stat above about no legally obtained machine gun eveer being used in a crime? The folks that can afford them...don't get them for shooting people.

[BOUNCER]

.22 with half loads....also known as city loads........... really quiet.........

still go hypervelocity............. not too bad....

but you only get 1 shot.............too week to cycle the gas operation..

Spy, check out the Ruger 10/22 in Israeli Defence Forces service.

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/sws/ruger/ruger.htm

Here's my son with ours. And me with my weapon of choice in work!

[Phillyboy1]

if you wanna know about the H&K guns, i can hook you up with one of my bro's, he has about 4 of them, full auto MP5, full auto M 16, AR 15, Mac 10, and tons of others i forget the names, he even has that small MP5 that fits in the breifcase, and yes he owns the breif case for it too. He has over 20 guns and id say about 17 of them are H&K's. He even has a walk - in safe for all of them. PM me and ill give you his aim name so you can find out on what are good prices and all.

[PurePower]

H&K is definatly my weapon of choice..........very realiable weapon.

[RageControl]

Ill take bouncers AUG any day what a fine piece.

[RageControl]

Btw have you ever fired the ACR bouncer? Looking for some input on this model.

[Swellin]

When I tried the AUG...I hated it. It would take a lot more time with it for me to like it. I just hate the way the trigger works...don't know if I could ever get use to it.
Other than that, it feels cool and holds really well.

The MP5 for the briefcase is the MP5K. Some of them also have a suppressor. Very cool piece.

[RageControl]

the aug was very comfortable for me thast why i wanted to try the acr with the smaller caliber "darts" . i would assume buying ammo for the ACR might cost a bit tho..

i agree the squareish trigger felt a little odd hard to get a feel for it.

[Swellin]

Not just the feel of the square trigger, but its operation as well. I hated the single fire, then pull all the way back for rock and roll. By the time I exerted 9lbs of pressure, I was pulling everything off to the right. I couldn't hit anything with it.
I do a bit of benchrest shooting, and all of my rifles (benchrest or hunting) have very nice triggers. I hated that trigger, but ****....that thing just felt cool!

Bouncer, I might post a pic of a couple of my 10/22s a little later. I have some benchrest stuff and some hunting stuff. One wears an advanced armament suppressor. I also have a 10/22 Mag that I converted to a 10/17.

[RageControl]

nice swellin any got heavy barrels ? i popped a muskrat with a ruger 10/22 i was warned about its accuracy but man that thing was sick. deffinatly gonna have to buy one.

[Swellin]

nice swellin any got heavy barrels ? i popped a muskrat with a ruger 10/22 i was warned about its accuracy but man that thing was sick. deffinatly gonna have to buy one.

Bull barrels....yep, about four of them do. They are extremely accurate for an auto-loader.

There are still some 10/22 full auto rifles around, but they have gotten quite expensive. Boy they are fun!

[sp9]

Any of you guys shot an M21 tactical rifle before? If so at what range and what scope did you use? I would love one but at $3000.00 I think I will have to wait.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles-m21.shtml

[Swellin]

Not me, but it is based on one of the best hi power designs of all time IMO.
If you have to have somthing along those lines, step up to the White Feather rifle...M25.

I have a Springfield scope, and I love it! It allows excellent light transmission, and is clear as a bell. It also has the ill-ret and the range finding ret. What a scope...I only wish it had more power. Mine is the 4-14x56 3rd gen.

I also have a Shepherd that I really like.

The best tactical scope I have ever seen is the Nightforce NXS. No words can describe that scope....it is the best. Of course, you can go the US Optics route...way more money, but many options...I have never looked through one. It is a copy of the Unertl.

[BOUNCER]

Swellin, having read whats you posted about weapons its hard not to respect your views, but really, to say you couldn't hit anything with the Steyr ?. We've used it in competition against armies from all over the world and in all theatres of operation and as we say here, if its in your sights its dead. At what ranges did you miss your target?. The AUG's optimum range is 300mtrs. The sights are not adjustable so you zero them at 100m for 300m (if that sounds right). ie, at 100m your gps should be 15cm about your point of aim, at 200m its 7.5cm and at 300 your shot should be falling onto your point of aim. Its thought after 300m's that assault weapons won't play a major roll in the fire fight and you'll be calling in your section, platoon or battalion support weapons on your enemy.

[Swellin]

Bouncer, I was shooting it inside 50m. It was not so much the siting system, but the mechanics of the trigger that wrecked my shooting. I am certainly not downing the weapon...it is a well respected opiece of equipment. I am simply stating that it was not a very good fit for my abilities. I don't own any rifle with a trigger that bad. It could have just been the one I fired, but the trigger pull was "gritty," with tons of creep, and no concistency in respect to where it breaks. I was fine in single shot mode, but when I had to use two fingers to take it to FA, I pulled the shots well to the right of the targets. I was also shooting freehand. When shooting freehand, the trigger really makes a huge difference...specially when it is such a mechanical difference from the ones you are use to firing. I expect that with more range time, I could do much better...but never at the level I can with an AR15.....I know, most consider them junk, but I sure like 'em.

I have a cheap AR with a ton of attachments...red dot scope, laser, Delta cheekpiece, Weaver rails on the foreend for flashlight and such..some minor internal mods just for better functionality.

It's kind of odd, really...I have never been a big assault rifle fan, but I don't totally ignore them.

Did my explanation of my problems with the trigger help clarify?

[BOUNCER]

Yup, and I agree. The trigger isn't nice.

[Animal Cracker]

Of all my jaunts around the world..I do like the prefer an ol' com-bloc rifle and a 1911 for a side arm. TheAug has the the cool looks, and I do like a bullpup rifle..still get a 16"-20" barrel with out sacrificing mobility, but from Styer the STG-58 is a great rifle was well...the MP5 (hate the plastic receivers..)...looks cool in movies.
M-4 carbines are excellent multi-tasking rifles...a bit tempermental when you do not clean them often however!
But back to the thread...I have an HK91, a CETME3(a Spanish HK contract rifle)..both are true HK..not FMP..A couple of AK's -East German Underfolder, Bulgarian RPK (Heavy Barrel AK), an FN FAL and a preban M16 (10 1/2" barrel). I love them all. HK is a solid design..cocking tubes are not a strong point however, but a solid rife!

[Hitter]

Boy I love them mp5... HK91 is a good weapon

Hitter

[tryingtogetbig]

buddy of mine in law enforcement let me shoot their ar15 the other day. I have many guns and have shot LOTS of different types of guns...but never full auto. OH SHIETT was that the bomb!!! I loved it! All they had were 30 rd mags and you could empty them very quick like. I was surprised on how little it climbed in full auto. Lots of fun!! Glad I wasn't paying for the ammo too......wait a minute...that was my tax dollars at work there...oh well...IT WAS FUN!!

peace,

ttgb

[Swellin]

buddy of mine in law enforcement let me shoot their ar15 the other day. I have many guns and have shot LOTS of different types of guns...but never full auto. OH SHIETT was that the bomb!!! I loved it! All they had were 30 rd mags and you could empty them very quick like. I was surprised on how little it climbed in full auto. Lots of fun!! Glad I wasn't paying for the ammo too......wait a minute...that was my tax dollars at work there...oh well...IT WAS FUN!!

peace,

ttgb

It's cool to get to use your own tax dollars for a change...isn't it.