For those of you critical of America supporting Israel..

[spywizard]

Actually ..... at that time the world poputation was estimated at about 4 million????



so i guess i wonder about alot of your information......

go figure

10,000,000,000,000 people used to think the world was flat. Now only
5,000,000,000,000 do.
What does that tell ya?
-Tock

[BOUNCER]

Some of us are trying to follow this middle eastern thing in an attempt (quite possibly a futile one) to learn something or at least gain some superficial understanding of what the situation is about. And you are right, I haven't faintest idea of what Zionism is and until Bouncer started all of these middle east threads I didn't give a rat's ass.......and I still don't. So far I haven't read one thread which even comes close to convincing me why I should care. You wan't people to care about the situation? the onus is on you to convice us why we should care.

For someone who told me the other night that you hadn't read one word that Rak_Ani had posted, she's right, why waste her breath.

[BDTR]

I thought we weren't going to flame eachother. So i'm a nazi because I dont like zionism nor immigration? Or am i a nazi because my grandfather was? I'm just curious. Good job with the dig though.. i'm proud of you.

So, when is the next rally?

[Red Ketchup]

Obviously bdtr and his bigballs something friend are Nazis.

You know, up until that statement I read everything you wrote and though i did not always agree with you, respected what you had to say...

But calling someone a nazi is as low as it gets in my book... sad... very sad...

Red

[BDTR]

That's what zionists do. If someone disagrees with zionism and happen to be white, they're branded with the scarlet letter and called a nazi. No skin off my back...

You know, up until that statement I read everything you wrote and though i did not always agree with you, respected what you had to say...

But calling someone a nazi is as low as it gets in my book... sad... very sad...

Red

[BDTR]

I am however disapointed with bouncer on this, calling me a nazi because i hate zionism. I could throw out personal insults at him, but I wont.

[OGPackin]

I am however disapointed with bouncer on this, calling me a nazi because i hate zionism. I could throw out personal insults at him, but I wont.

I think hes calling u what u are for far more then just hating zionism. Think about it.

OG

[BDTR]

I hate zionism and illegal immigrants.

I hardly see that equating national socialism. But thanks for thinking of me.

I think hes calling u what u are for far more then just hating zionism. Think about it.

OG

[Tock]

As my grand-uncle Nettlebladt once said in the Turkish prison as they sprung the trap door on him, "Remember my friends, it is he who throws mud who loses his ground."

Grand-nephew Tock

[Cycleon]

I really dont have the time to waste reading this thread so I will just state the following:

frankly, it never ceases to amaze me that if someone just doesnt dance up and down in delight at the advancement of people of jewish ancestral heritage then they are branded as antisemetic nazis. Now I could say that Bangladeshis are dirty smelly fellows you cant trust worth a stick and no one would bat an eye (tho I know a good number of fine bangladeshi people) - yet to say anything about jewish people is ..ummm.... "verbotten" - now the Israelis have a strong lobby in the US as well as many supporting private "jewish" lobbies to present their case and to curry favors - thats fine and dandy, just like everyone else does

Now what seems to have happened of late is that a lot of immigrants are coming into the US and instead of assimilating, they are advancing the causes of their ancestral country - is their any wonder that there is a growing backlash among white american males who see their own heritage being trample on in the name of political correctness? where they are the only group that you can safetly spit upon without being called a racist? and yes, Virginia, it really was those white, mostly protestant, europeans who came to this country and Gods grace or fortune (that was for you Tock) that allowed them to create and promulgate the set of ideals that the whole world is still trying in many ways to emulate.

I have news for you fellas - racism is really not just hating one race but rather preferring one over another (or any other) - and this is practiced almost everywhere in the world. Chinese think lowly of Fujians, Native Indonesians hate indo-chinese, etc. Now a fact is that those who continually push jewish "heritage" are just as racist as the rest - and that is just fine actually, it is natural for birds of a feather to flock together - where it crosses a line is when you begin trying to harm someone because of their race, similar to what happened in Kosovo (notice Jews dont have a monopoly on being picked on, tho they surely do get their share) - notice in Israel they practice racism quite clearly - and frankly given their dangerous situation there I dont blame them - I am just tired of jewish people couching their brand of racism as more righteous than anyone elses

[Da Bull]

AWESOME post CYC

[Yankeebstrd]

Amen Cycleon!!

[Money Boss Hustla]

So, when is the next rally?

Ouch! That's a bit harsh bro.

[Money Boss Hustla]

I am just tired of jewish people couching their brand of racism as more righteous than anyone elses

Amen bro! Hit the nail on the head!

[chicamahomico]

Dammit, I told you the other night I would go back (as time permits because its exam season for college folk at the moment) and read the entire middle east threads that you and MilitiaGuy post up.

For someone who told me the other night that you hadn't read one word that Rak_Ani had posted, she's right, why waste her breath.

[Animal Cracker]

I really dont have the time to waste reading this thread so I will just state the following:

frankly, it never ceases to amaze me that if someone just doesnt dance up and down in delight at the advancement of people of jewish ancestral heritage then they are branded as antisemetic nazis. Now I could say that Bangladeshis are dirty smelly fellows you cant trust worth a stick and no one would bat an eye (tho I know a good number of fine bangladeshi people) - yet to say anything about jewish people is ..ummm.... "verbotten" - now the Israelis have a strong lobby in the US as well as many supporting private "jewish" lobbies to present their case and to curry favors - thats fine and dandy, just like everyone else does

Now what seems to have happened of late is that a lot of immigrants are coming into the US and instead of assimilating, they are advancing the causes of their ancestral country - is their any wonder that there is a growing backlash among white american males who see their own heritage being trample on in the name of political correctness? where they are the only group that you can safetly spit upon without being called a racist? and yes, Virginia, it really was those white, mostly protestant, europeans who came to this country and Gods grace or fortune (that was for you Tock) that allowed them to create and promulgate the set of ideals that the whole world is still trying in many ways to emulate.

I have news for you fellas - racism is really not just hating one race but rather preferring one over another (or any other) - and this is practiced almost everywhere in the world. Chinese think lowly of Fujians, Native Indonesians hate indo-chinese, etc. Now a fact is that those who continually push jewish "heritage" are just as racist as the rest - and that is just fine actually, it is natural for birds of a feather to flock together - where it crosses a line is when you begin trying to harm someone because of their race, similar to what happened in Kosovo (notice Jews dont have a monopoly on being picked on, tho they surely do get their share) - notice in Israel they practice racism quite clearly - and frankly given their dangerous situation there I dont blame them - I am just tired of jewish people couching their brand of racism as more righteous than anyone elses

Good Post

[bigbouncinballs]

"Obviously bdtr and his bigballs something friend are Nazis." RAK ANI

hmmmmmmmm...

[alevok]

Well instead of nuking the entire middle east, wouldn't it be better if we destroyed all the weapons and all the money in the world? And we all held hands and sang some good Beatle songs? Hugging and kissing and fvcking everyone. No country labels, just one giant federation. No currency just lovency. Hand jobs all around, drinks on the house, know what I mean??

Thats what I have in my mind, but it seems like it is just you and me. When I posted couple days ago about ending this meaningless war no one replied, I guess people are so bloodthirsty nowadays. Poeple in AR dont want peace instead we have hate groups now, zionists-anti zionists, muslims-muslim haters, one says people in mid-east are not even human, other says lets nuke Mecca. WTF? And they call themselves civilized yeah right!

[BOUNCER]

Poeple in AR dont want peace instead we have hate groups now, zionists-anti zionists, muslims-muslim haters, one says people in mid-east are not even human, other says lets nuke Mecca. WTF? And they call themselves civilized yeah right!

What do you mean ''zionists-anti zionists'' and including zionists here in the same breath as hatred?. I dare you to try and find ANYWHERE on AR.com where I, or Rak_Ani advocated hatred.

For all the rubbish which has been spoken here about war and peace in the middle east, NOT one person here has done more for peace in the middle east as I have. I've served numberous times with UNIFIL (United Nations Intrim Force In Lebanon). During my service there I worked closed with all the warring factions, both Palestinian, Lebanese and Israel, including voluntary work in the Tibnine orphange (M'guy will know it) During that time I lost comrades in action from fire from all the above groups. I also served with UNISOM (United Nations In Somalia) where again I worked voluntarily in the Hospital/Orphange in Bidoa.. HARDLY THE CV OF A HATE FILLED PERSON.

Finally I should have kept my comments on bdtr off this board, it wasn't what the board expects from a Mod, but I'm only human and rose to provacation.

Alevok, you know that your country has a defence pact with Israel?.

[Rak_Ani]

bigbouncinballs

"not to feed off of you, but yes, europe in my opinion had plenty of good reasons to get the jews out of their country. so why would we want them?"

"the jews were, (and i believe are) a threat to the germans in many ways at that time. they chose to fight that threat. (without proper sources on hand i will continue to be vague while still attempting to answer your question, with time i will post those sources). i am no backer of genocide or murder, but i will say that Hitler's original idea of removing (not gassing) the jews from HIS country was completely appropriate."

That's not Nazism?

And to bdtr I owe an appology. I mixed up his posts with bbb's posts and thought he was expressing Nazi views as well. His posts express hatered towards Zionism. I still haven't seen an explanation what it is bdtr hates about Zionism so much.
One more thing I can't help thinking. BBB posts the kind of stuff I quoted and no one says a word. Bouncer and I call him a Nazi and get ambushed....Some of you are trying so hard to be politically correct that it makes you blind to what you're reading.

[spywizard]

You go cyc........ great post.....

[alevok]

Yes I am aware that we have a pact with Israel and I am fine with it. I also pointed out that I have no problem with any other race including jews but I am against illegal occupation of the West Bank as well.
You believe in your ways which is fine with me, but lets not use AR as a propaganda platform, this includes Mguy as well, IMO it is pointless to keep this war of words between you guys, just drop it. We have old saying if speech is silver, silence is golden. Since you are a mod, you need to ignore things time to time to prevent elevation of tension.
I speak in general, never called you a zionist nor I believe you are one.
What I am saying is we did not have hate groups 2 years ago when I joined in. And I believe we had more educated people back then, now it is full ignorant people that have no respect or tolerance for people who are not like them. Some people just do not know their boundaries and talk **** and no mods do anything about it, it seems like mods take sides and do nothing, but a mod should be objective, if it is a flame and need a banning they should apply the rules.
If someone insults anothers religion he should be banned, no matter how valuable his presence to AR.

[Rak_Ani]

agreed

So you're Turkish. I didn't know that.

You replied the above to M'guys' post that said:
"Originally Posted by MilitiaGuy
i will keep this simple :Israel is a cancer and should be wiped out from the arab terretories!"

So tell me, how does that post go with your declarations about world peace?

You know, it's very comfortable for you to have Israeli send rescue forces and supplies to your country every time you have an earthquake, isn't it. I was just wondering, how many of your Arab friends, who you so much care about, have sent you this much aid in times you needed it? Israel is a good friend to your country. Learn to apreciate it.

[alevok]

Well hello, says Istanbul in my location, you dont know much about World Geography do you?
Anyways, this post has nothing to do with it. Occupation of west bank is illegal and wrong and this is one of the things that threats world peace, you know it and I know it but of course you will deny, naturally.
"Everytime you have an earthquake", how offen we get earthquakes you think?
You know what I hate? I hate people doing favors and after using it against you, your favor does not count in my eyes.
Speaking of appreciation , I guess either you forget or you do not know that we let Jews in, when they had no where to go when kicked out off Spain. Learn history first.
Who said arabs are our friends, in general arabs and turks dont get along well. I dont support everything Mguy says, read what I posted regarding hezboullah. I agree with him on that subject only... does not make me his friend...and I do not need a friend or sympathy in AR unlike you..I am a man of my own...
Bouncer knows much more than you do, if you followed hid posts you would know that Israel and Turkey have a pack agreement, we would do the same if Israel had an earthquake. We sent help to Greece when they had an earthquake, it is a human thing to do...
But I believe you want me to shut my eyes and say nothing to disturb you cause you did us a favor, right,... how pathetic..., you are expecting something in return right, that would be my silence huh!?
Israeli has no friend in middle east but Turkey, the third most powerful army in the world, ask any American who batteld in korea about Turkish soldiers, we know no fear in battlefield, simple as it is. So our friendship means more to you than us.
LEARN TO ARGUE

[Rak_Ani]

This post has nothing to do with it. Occupation of west bank is illegal and wrong and this is one of the things that threats world peace, you know it and I know it but of course you will deny, naturally.
"Everytime you have an earthquake", how offen we get earthquakes you think?
You know what I hate? I hate people doing favors and after using it against you, your favor does not count in my eyes.
Speaking of appreciation , I guess either you forget or you do not know that we let Jews in, when they had no where to go when kicked out off Spain. Learn history first.
Who said arabs are our friends, in general arabs and turks dont get along well. I dont support everything Mguy says, read what I posted regarding hezboullah. I agree with him on that subject only... does not make me his friend...and I do not need a friend or sympathy in AR unlike you..I am a man of my own...
Bouncer knows much more than you do, if you followed hid posts you would know that Israel and Turkey have a pack agreement, we would do the same if Israel had an earthquake. We sent help to Greek when they had an earthquake, it is a human thing to do...
But I believe you want me to shut my eyes and say nothing to disturb you cause you did us a favor, right, how pathetic, you are expecting something in return right, that would be my silence huh!?
Israeli has no friend in middle east but Turkey, the third most powerful army in the world, ask any American who batteld in korea about Turkish soldiers, we know no fear in battlefield, simple as it is. So our friendship means more to you than us.
LEARN TO ARGUE

Israel doesn't do favors, just like Turkey doesn't, the US doesn't and all the rest. Everything operates on interest. What bothers me is not helping Turkey in times of need. Not at all. What I'm bothered by is people like yourself who take our help and then spit in our face.
In your post you have not only put words in my mouth (I never said I or Israel expects anything in return from Turkey. I think in my government's eyes the allience is enough), but you have also failed to explain to me why is it that with such good relations between Israel and Turkey, you still call us cancer and wish us dead.

"We sent help to Greek when they had an earthquake, it is a human thing to do..."

Leading me back to my question...How many Arab countries send you aid when you need it?

"Israeli has no friend in middle east but Turkey"

And even if we did, I wouldn't be here talking crap about your country like you do about mine.

"the third most powerful army in the world, ask any American who batteld in korea about Turkish soldiers, we know no fear in battlefield, simple as it is"

Yes, no doubt your strong army has saved our asses so many times we would probably not be here without you.
Bla
Bla
Bla.

Now care trying to explaint to me why you think Israel is a cancer and needs to be wiped out?

[alevok]

UAE attributed in donations and other rich arab countries did, but they keep it silence unlike you. Not talking about favors is a virtue in Islam which you obviously fail to have.
Israel first bought pieces of land and turned into a country which was a mistake of arabs, they should not sell their land to jews at the first place. Then Israelis occupied lands that dont belong to them and kicked out arabs. Do you follow me so far? Thats why I am against of that nation, not jews at the other countries(besides I have many Turkish Jew friends), now they are building a wall as in Germany! how f..ked up is that?
Imagine all the Jews in USA connects their lands and form a nation and slowly and slowly enlargens its territory, of course it is not possible there, you can do this kind of thricks in poorer countries.
We never asked your help, you offered and I still do not understand how can you relate your aid to our discusion, guess, you dont have anything left to say, huh!
I dont wish anybody dead, but I believe Israel should give the occupied lands to its owners, palestinians, is it clear?
I am not talking crap about anyone's country, but hey you did not have a country before 1950's, before palestinians lands were bought and turned into a country!
You are so good at misinterpreting words, never said we saved your asses, you have a weird imagination, you make up things and believe in as they are real.

[Cycleon]

bigbouncinballs

"not to feed off of you, but yes, europe in my opinion had plenty of good reasons to get the jews out of their country. so why would we want them?"

"the jews were, (and i believe are) a threat to the germans in many ways at that time. they chose to fight that threat. (without proper sources on hand i will continue to be vague while still attempting to answer your question, with time i will post those sources). i am no backer of genocide or murder, but i will say that Hitler's original idea of removing (not gassing) the jews from HIS country was completely appropriate."

That's not Nazism?

And to bdtr I owe an appology. I mixed up his posts with bbb's posts and thought he was expressing Nazi views as well. His posts express hatered towards Zionism. I still haven't seen an explanation what it is bdtr hates about Zionism so much.
One more thing I can't help thinking. BBB posts the kind of stuff I quoted and no one says a word. Bouncer and I call him a Nazi and get ambushed....Some of you are trying so hard to be politically correct that it makes you blind to what you're reading.

That may well be german nationalism for sure - and if hitler had been simply content to deport "undesireables" he perhaps could have made a case - but no, in his insatiable hatred he had to exterminate them and destroy half of Europe to further his evil ambition. Now before everyone goes hog wild, please explain to me how Israels current method of dealing with arabs in Israel any different than if Hitler had simply expelled the Jews in Germany - or not allowed them to be citizens - or own land - or, well you get the point. Again, I think Israel has every right to do this given their situation - Its their territory and they have the soveriegn right to look after their own interests - but only history will tell if such actions are wise or achieved the purpose they sought

note, places like the Netherlands are considering similar measures for Muslim immigrants

[Carlos_E]

What I am saying is we did not have hate groups 2 years ago when I joined in. And I believe we had more educated people back then, now it is full ignorant people that have no respect or tolerance for people who are not like them.

I agree. I joined AR around the same time I have seen the change. Back then, members had more respect for each other and their differences. People were banned for attacking someone based on their gender, race, religion or sexual orientation.

[Rak_Ani]

UAE attributed in donations and other rich arab countries did, but they keep it silence unlike you. Not talking about favors is a virtue in Islam which you obviously fail to have.
Israel first bought pieces of land and turned into a country which was a mistake of arabs, they should not sell their land to jews at the first place. Then Israelis occupied lands that dont belong to them and kicked out arabs. Do you follow me so far? Thats why I am against of that nation, not jews at the other countries(besides I have many Turkish Jew friends), now they are building a wall as in Germany! how f..ked up is that?
Imagine all the Jews in USA connects their lands and form a nation and slowly and slowly enlargens its territory, of course it is not possible there, you can do this kind of thricks in poorer countries.
We never asked your help, you offered and I still do not understand how can you relate your aid to our discusion, guess, you dont have anything left to say, huh!
I dont wish anybody dead, but I believe Israel should give the occupied lands to its owners, palestinians, is it clear?
I am not talking crap about anyone's country, but hey you did not have a country before 1950's, before palestinians lands were bought and turned into a country!
You are so good at misinterpreting words, never said we saved your asses, you have a weird imagination, you make up things and believe in as they are real.

"Israel first bought pieces of land and turned into a country which was a mistake of arabs, they should not sell their land to jews at the first place."

If I'm not mistaken, M'guy claimed in a previous thread that Israel refuses to sell land to Arabs. This was of course proven wrong, but the point is that if it was Israel that refused to sell land to Arabs, it would be called racism, while on the other hand you claim the oposite is ok to do.

"Then Israelis occupied lands that dont belong to them and kicked out arabs."
As I said before, most Arabs left without ever meeting an Israeli soldier. Those who stayed got full citizenship and rights from Israel.

"now they are building a wall as in Germany! how f..ked up is that?"

1. 90% of that "wall" is fense.
2. Do you have a better idea for self defence?
3. Do you think that after Israel pulls back to 67 lines this border will cease to exist? It will be even more secured.

"you did not have a country before 1950's, before palestinians lands were bought and turned into a country!"

This land was never a Palestinian state. As a Turk, you might know that most of the Arabs that live in Israel came to this area during the time your empire ruled here. You might as well say the Palestinians would never have lived here if the Romans didn't kick the Jews out. Why is my right of return different than the Palestinians'? My family has roots in this country just like many other Arabs do.

"You are so good at misinterpreting words, never said we saved your asses, you have a weird imagination, you make up things and believe in as they are real"

Actually I understood you very well. My reply was meant to show you how irrelevant your comment was. Your army, as strong it may or may not be, has never helped Israel out in anything, therefore talking about how Israel should be your friend because of your army is completely irrelevant. Regarding me making up things, I think I'm the only one here who has constantly supplied proof to back what I say. Claiming that I make up thing would be.....making up things. Don't you think?

[Cycleon]

btw - Rak Ani, I think the IDF layout of a fence is the way to go - make it hard for bombers, diffuse tensions and give palestinians a defacto land that they could screw up - encirclement tho would be a bad idea IMO -

[alevok]

[[Actually I understood you very well. My reply was meant to show you how irrelevant your comment was. Your army, as strong it may or may not be, has never helped Israel out in anything, therefore talking about how Israel should be your friend because of your army is completely irrelevant. Regarding me making up things, I think I'm the only one here who has constantly supplied proof to back what I say. Claiming that I make up thing would be.....making up things. Don't you think?[/QUOTE]

Ok I state in simple words so that you can follow, Turkey has a strong army in Middle East and sole friend of Israel, thats the reason Israel sent help immediatly, "Israel doesn't do favors, just like Turkey doesn't, the US doesn't and all the rest. Everything operates on interest" your quote says it all. I rest my case.

[Rak_Ani]

That may well be german nationalism for sure - and if hitler had been simply content to deport "undesireables" he perhaps could have made a case - but no, in his insatiable hatred he had to exterminate them and destroy half of Europe to further his evil ambition. Now before everyone goes hog wild, please explain to me how Israels current method of dealing with arabs in Israel any different than if Hitler had simply expelled the Jews in Germany - or not allowed them to be citizens - or own land - or, well you get the point. Again, I think Israel has every right to do this given their situation - Its their territory and they have the soveriegn right to look after their own interests - but only history will tell if such actions are wise or achieved the purpose they sought

note, places like the Netherlands are considering similar measures for Muslim immigrants

Cycleon, does Israel take any of the Israeli Arabs' citizenship away? On the contrary. We have Arab members of Knesset (Israeli parliment) who call for the destruction of Israel. When Yassin was killed they declaired a national day of mourning for the Israeli Arab community. One of them went to Syria for a visit and called for a war against Israel. In the name of democracy, they are allowed to continue being in the Knesset and not put on trial. The Israeli Arabs are very well treated and the proof to that is that they don't want to be under Palestinian rule.
The treatment of the Palestinians in the WB and Gaza can't be compared to the treatment of the Jews by Hitler. The situations are completely different. The Palestinians were conquered at war, and have pretty much brought everything onto themselves. Here are a few examples:
1. Palestinians that were given jobs by Israeli employees have murdered the employees.
2. Given freedom to enter Israel has been used to blow up civilians.
3. Given medical aid and permission for ambulances to enter Israeli hospitals has been used to try and transfer bombs and terrorists into Israel.
4. American convoy goes to Gaza to interview candidates for American aid (for a scolarship I think) and the convoy gets bombed. The Americans get killed.
5. Israeli leftist activist goes to bring food to the Palestinians and gets lynched.
It goes on and on. You see what I mean? Israel has no interest in treating Palestinians bad. The most unpopular people in Israel these days are the settlers. The voice calling against the settlements is strong and most Israelis will be willing to withdraw completely from the settlements today in return for peace. The problem is when the people you deal with are ones who strap bombs on their children and send them to their death. There is no comparison between the Jews in the second world war and the Palestinians today, and therefor no comparison between Hitler and Israel.
Read this link (at the end there's another link to part two).
http://cbn.org/CBNNews/News/040325e.asp
This only strengthens the point about how there's no comparison between the two things.

Regarding Holland, I don't know about any measures they want to take against Muslims.

[OGPackin]

Cycleon, does Israel take any of the Israeli Arabs' citizenship away? On the contrary. We have Arab members of Knesset (Israeli parliment) who call for the destruction of Israel. When Yassin was killed they declaired a national day of mourning for the Israeli Arab community. One of them went to Syria for a visit and called for a war against Israel. In the name of democracy, they are allowed to continue being in the Knesset and not put on trial. The Israeli Arabs are very well treated and the proof to that is that they don't want to be under Palestinian rule.
The treatment of the Palestinians in the WB and Gaza can't be compared to the treatment of the Jews by Hitler. The situations are completely different. The Palestinians were conquered at war, and have pretty much brought everything onto themselves. Here are a few examples:
1. Palestinians that were given jobs by Israeli employees have murdered the employees.
2. Given freedom to enter Israel has been used to blow up civilians.
3. Given medical aid and permission for ambulances to enter Israeli hospitals has been used to try and transfer bombs and terrorists into Israel.
4. American convoy goes to Gaza to interview candidates for American aid (for a scolarship I think) and the convoy gets bombed. The Americans get killed.
5. Israeli leftist activist goes to bring food to the Palestinians and gets lynched.
It goes on and on. You see what I mean? Israel has no interest in treating Palestinians bad. The most unpopular people in Israel these days are the settlers. The voice calling against the settlements is strong and most Israelis will be willing to withdraw completely from the settlements today in return for peace. The problem is when the people you deal with are ones who strap bombs on their children and send them to their death. There is no comparison between the Jews in the second world war and the Palestinians today, and therefor no comparison between Hitler and Israel.
Read this link (at the end there's another link to part two).
http://cbn.org/CBNNews/News/040325e.asp
This only strengthens the point about how there's no comparison between the two things.

Regarding Holland, I don't know about any measures they want to take against Muslims.

Please read both links. Very inlightening....

http://cbn.org/CBNNews/News/040324e.asp part 1

http://cbn.org/CBNNews/News/040325e.asp part 2

Here is a small part of what it says in part 1.....

The Conversion of A Committed Palestinian Terrorist, Part 1
March 25, 2004

CBN.com – Walid Shoebat was once a Palestinian Muslim terrorist, but his spiritual journey led him to become a Christian and a supporter of Israel. Shoebat grew up near Bethlehem, and was recruited by Yassar Arafat's faction. He once was given a bomb on Jerusalem's Temple Mount, to explode in a Bethlehem bank. Shoebat said, that for Palestinian Muslims like himself, the hatred of Jews starts from birth, and he said it has a Nazi parallel that cannot be imagined by people living in free societies. In part one of this two part interview, Pat Robertson recently spoke with Shoebat to discuss his incredible testimony.

PAT ROBERTSON: Walid Shoebat joins us now to tell us more about his remarkable transformation. Walid, welcome to the 700 Club. How old were you when they began to indoctrinate you?

WALID SHOEBAT: Well, Pat, at six years old, in kindergarten, I remember the first song we had
was 'Arabs are beloved, and Jews are Dogs.' And we sang this every morning.

ROBERTSON: You're a six-year-old, and you're singing 'Jews are Dogs'?

SHOEBAT: Yes sir, 'Jews are Dogs.'

ROBERTSON: Now, who put together that little ditty?

SHOEBAT: Amazingly, that was under the Hashimite kingdom (Jordan).

ROBERTSON: Really?

SHOEBAT: Just before the Six Days War. And I remember, right after the Six Days War, seeing Israel triumphant.

ROBERTSON: Well, what's the deal now? It looks like a group from Tunisia have been parachuted in to take control, and the Palestinian area is really occupied, not by Israel so much as by Yassar Arafat. Is that true?

SHOEBAT: That is true. In fact, the charter, Arafat's charter, the P.L.O. charter, does not include Judea or Samaria, until the Six Days War happened. It was under King Hussein. And Gaza was under Egypt. So, only after Israel got the land, did Yassar Arafat want to make the state of Palestine in Judea.

ROBERTSON: Well what were the Jews thinking? They apparently armed the Palestinian militia. Did they honestly think that those people were going to be honest policemen?

SHOEBAT: Ah, I don't think so. As a matter of fact, there were 40,000 machine guns given by Israel to start a police force, and it all turned out against Israel, as well. And it is time for the world, for the West, and for Israel to learn that you can't really deal with terrorism in such a fashion. All guns will turn against you.

ROBERTSON: What kind of freedom do you have in the West Bank, or did people have?

SHOEBAT: There is no freedom of religion, thought or anything in the West Bank. You are either under Yasser Arafat's party line, Hamas' party line or you're in the coffin. You can't walk the streets of Judea. You can't go to Bethlehem. You can't go to Ramallah, you can't go to Hebron and declare what you feel, what you believe if it's contrary to their thinking.

ROBERTSON: Well, as a kid, you were taught something, not only to hate Israel. What else were you taught? Did you go to Muslim school? Was it an Islamic school?

SHOEBAT: Everything was the most Nazi form of education that you can think of, Pat. It was the extreme, from religion, from social studies, from arts, from songs. All the songs that we memorized were evil songs calling for the death of the Jews. Even in eschatology, Islamic eschatology in high school, we learned that the day of judgment shall not come to pass until the tribes of Islam defeat the tribes of Israel.

[Rak_Ani]

Ok I state in simple words so that you can follow, Turkey has a strong army in Middle East and sole friend of Israel, thats the reason Israel sent help immediatly, "Israel doesn't do favors, just like Turkey doesn't, the US doesn't and all the rest. Everything operates on interest" your quote says it all. I rest my case.

Don't be naive. No one does favors. That includes your country. I don't think our alliance with your country is based on the strength of your army, as I said you never have and hopefully will never have to take part in any Israeli wars. I think there are plenty of reason and mutual interests for this relationship. That includes tourism, military interests, political intersts, etc.
Besides that, you live in a liberal Muslim country. This means the terrorists hate you probably as much as they hate us. You have witnessed yourself that even your country can be struck by terror. How many times was it hit in the last months? It has nothing to do with your alliance with Israel, in case you were planning to imply that. It has to do with the fact your government doesn't lead strict Muslim ruling in Turkey, and for that you are just as good a target for terror as the rest of the West.

[OGPackin]

Sorry to say, but it looks like they will be coming for Christians after the Jews.

SHOEBAT: That's it. No reprieve. As a matter of fact, if you see scriptures now it says, "And I saw the martyrs who were beheaded in the name of Jesus." And I believe this is talking about what the Islamic fundamentalists will do to Christians.

ROBERTSON: Well, what about this business about jihad being an inner experience? It's a struggle against the warfare in your soul. Does any of that appear in the Koran?

SHOEBAT: Well, over 100 hadiths was jihad by the sword. And when the jihad was all completed and the prophet rested, then he said, "Now I retreat to the jihad of the self." So it was after the combats were over.

ROBERTSON: After the combat is over. And that's for Saudi Arabia. He's going to rest back in the desert. But that's not for the rest of the people.

SHOEBAT: No.

ROBERTSON: Well, what about the West? We live in a free society, democratic. Does this Muslim incursion against us - is there truly a war, in your opinion, between the forces of Islam and the forces of - we say Judeo Christian or democracy?

SHOEBAT: Yes. The war has already begun. We should treat it like Pearl Harbor. We've been attacked on September 11th, and Christians are being killed all over the place. Let's not forget Sudan. There were over one million Christians butchered.

ROBERTSON: Yes.

SHOEBAT: Butchering of Christians has been increasing more than any other time in history. The war is on. It is obvious. Just turn on the TV. The problem is that the media does not show us all the events of what goes on. And thank God for your program that you show all these things

ROBERTSON: What's the end game? If the Islamic people had their way, what would they want?

SHOEBAT: They want the Saturday people first and the Sunday people next. And that's what they preach in all demonstrations.

ROBERTSON: Saturday - the Saturday is the Jews, Sunday is the Christians.

SHOEBAT: That's right. And that's what . . . .

ROBERTSON: They want them all?

SHOEBAT: They want them all.

ROBERTSON: All killed?

SHOEBAT: All killed. That's why you have to understand their eschatology. It states the day of judgment shall not come to pass until the tribes of Islam defeat the tribes of Israel, in Jerusalem and the surrounding nations. And every tree will cry out, every stone will cry out, "There is a Jew hiding behind me. Come oh Muslim, come oh slave of Allah, come and kill him." So it's basically there is no more taxation of Christians and Jews. This is eschatology. When the Jews come back to that land, it is time to annihilate the Jews and declare Islam. And as a matter of fact, the Jesus that Christians believe in is the anti-Christ of the Muslim. And what the Muslims believe Jesus is, is the anti-Christ of what the Christians believe. And this is in the Islam of the Hadith.

[Carlos_E]

Cycleon, does Israel take any of the Israeli Arabs' citizenship away? On the contrary. We have Arab members of Knesset (Israeli parliment) who call for the destruction of Israel. When Yassin was killed they declaired a national day of mourning for the Israeli Arab community. One of them went to Syria for a visit and called for a war against Israel. In the name of democracy, they are allowed to continue being in the Knesset and not put on trial. The Israeli Arabs are very well treated and the proof to that is that they don't want to be under Palestinian rule.
The treatment of the Palestinians in the WB and Gaza can't be compared to the treatment of the Jews by Hitler. The situations are completely different. The Palestinians were conquered at war, and have pretty much brought everything onto themselves. Here are a few examples:
1. Palestinians that were given jobs by Israeli employees have murdered the employees.
2. Given freedom to enter Israel has been used to blow up civilians.
3. Given medical aid and permission for ambulances to enter Israeli hospitals has been used to try and transfer bombs and terrorists into Israel.
4. American convoy goes to Gaza to interview candidates for American aid (for a scolarship I think) and the convoy gets bombed. The Americans get killed.
5. Israeli leftist activist goes to bring food to the Palestinians and gets lynched.
It goes on and on. You see what I mean? Israel has no interest in treating Palestinians bad. The most unpopular people in Israel these days are the settlers. The voice calling against the settlements is strong and most Israelis will be willing to withdraw completely from the settlements today in return for peace. The problem is when the people you deal with are ones who strap bombs on their children and send them to their death. There is no comparison between the Jews in the second world war and the Palestinians today, and therefor no comparison between Hitler and Israel.
Read this link (at the end there's another link to part two).
http://cbn.org/CBNNews/News/040325e.asp
This only strengthens the point about how there's no comparison between the two things.

Regarding Holland, I don't know about any measures they want to take against Muslims.

Yawn!

The more and more I read, the less and less I care. I say America should stop aiding Israel and let the Middle East work this $hit out themselves. Calls us when it's over.

[OGPackin]

Yawn!

The more and more I read, the less and less I care. I say America should stop aiding Israel and let the Middle East work this $hit out themselves. Calls us when it's over.

If ur bored Carlos then dont read any of it. Keep ur head burried in the sand. That'a boy!

OG

[Carlos_E]

If ur bored Carlos then dont read any of it. Keep ur head burried in the sand. That'a boy!

OG

The US has it's own internal problems to fix. I'd like to see the billions spent in aid stay here.

[OGPackin]

The US has it's own internal problems to fix. I'd like to see the billions spent in aid stay here.

I agree 100%. The US does have its own problems and id rather see the money go towards that then anything else. But be realistic. Its not going to happen that way. The US just doesnt support Israel. There are alot of other countries with their hands out too. Its in the US's best interest to aid other foreign counties, Israel included.

OG

[BOUNCER]

Soooooooo Alevok. Since your so worried about illegal occupation of lands. Can I ask your view's on Kurdistan?. And Turkeys terrible, terrible record of human rights abuse's? What about your illegal occupation of Cyprus?

Other's here. Put it this way. If Israel had lost just ONE war in their unprecedented struggle for statehood and peace, just ONE loss America would be fighting Russia and china in Iraq now, not the rag tag sh*t ass band of insurgents its bravely fighting now.

At this stage I think its time to apolgise to the board and not just bdtr for posting here last night. I was drunk as a lord after a night celebrating our (Ireland's) 1916 easter rebellion against Englands occuption and oppression of Ireland. You know, when I think about it, I've spent more time in the service of peace in other countries hotspots than I have in my own country.

So Alevok, any answer's to the questions I asked re. Kurdistan, Cyprus and Turkeys despicable record of human rights?