Steroids - late teens - permanent damage?

**UCFTransam** · 04-21-2006, 01:50 PM

Im no doctor but i disagree with the whole "age" thing. I think if you have subsided in growing and have a full BEARD, your pretty much done. I know from experience that in my family we are all late bloomers, and my brother didnt have a full beard till about 26-27, and thats only after takeing aas did he really start to grow that burly beard. Also he is 6'5 and his growth did not stop until 22-23. I dont think my brothers testosterone was at his highest point until his early/mid twenties.

So to say that someone is too young to take AAS is really based on the individual in my opinion. I know for one that i started WAY to young considering that i cant even grown nearly a full beard, and probably wont for several years.

Just take my advice, and the advice of others with a grain of salt man.

**SMAN12b** · 04-21-2006, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by redline1986

Is Niko's muscles "unnatural" in any way?
http://www.playgirltv.com/specials/e...ncounter.html#

(besides little water - fat etc when picture was taken...)

Is it hard to gain that type of cutted+lean muscle?

Dude, just wondering why you keep sending us to PLAYGIRL magazine. You looking for advice or a date???

**AnabolicAndre** · 04-21-2006, 02:22 PM

Am I the only one who realises the person hasnt ever mentioned working out, is bed ridden, and assuming he is fully developed cause he has a beard.

this thread sucks.

**mtxz453** · 04-22-2006, 07:08 PM

How long do you have to be on the gear for it to actually fuse your growth plates?

**BastardBoyFloyd** · 04-22-2006, 08:32 PM

Wait another 3 years, what is the rush? I waited until I was 22, I wish I would have waited more, but oh well. The years I spent training 18 through 22 were crucial learning periods, I gained knowledge about training and did years of research on roids before I even started using them. Getting big takes time, and there isn't much reward.

**Mike Dura** · 04-22-2006, 09:27 PM

I read 18 for woman and 21 for men.

Originally Posted by redline1986

Surprising ! I though everybody stopped (or almost stopped) growing in height after 18.

**chest6** · 04-23-2006, 12:02 AM

205 20% bf...bedridden...forget about it

**Lucifer1** · 04-27-2006, 12:46 AM

this makes me laugh...

**dianasaur** · 04-27-2006, 03:26 AM

This thread is an excellent example of personal opinion / conjecture being passed of as scientific info. Everyone is posting ages that growth plates fuse and ages that hormone levels rise or fall or level off without any proof or a reference to back the claims up. Moreover, people keep posting random side effects that using AAS too early will cause, acting as if at the age of 19 this guy is mid-way through puberty. If you're going to claim that using AAS at 19 can cause sterility or something that extreme, that definitely warrants a stronger reference than "I think I heard somewhere that..."

From my own experience and that of people I know, the OP is going to be fine. Myself and many of my friends started at 19-20, and all of us are exactly as tall (or taller) than would be expected. One key element that everyone ignores is that some guys want to be DONE juicing when they get to their mid-20's. Even though many of the guys on these forums see it as more of a lifestyle, some people (in fact most guys I know that have used) want to enjoy the benefits when they're younger (early to mid 20's) and move on.

**SMAN12b** · 04-27-2006, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by Kale

Read this

"What is the Right Age to Start Using Steroids ?

By: Brandon Walsh
This article is being published in hopes of reaching some of the younger people, involved in our great sport of body building, reach their goals without making the great mistake of using steroids too early in their long lives. The problem with this is that most young bodybuilders (BBs) cannot grasp the concept of the future and how long the road ahead really is even with the use of steroids. How do you convince a 14 year old that it will take years before he can look like the Pro BB's in the magazines, and that he may never look like that even with all the drugs available in the world. Well that is what I hope to accomplish within this article.

At what age should you be, before you consider using steroids? This question is not as easily answered as you may think it is. You cannot randomly just pick an age and say that this is the point at which you can now start to consider using steroids.

Between the ages of 12 and 26 a male's hormone levels are on a steady rise until the age of 26. This is when these levels slowly start to decline until they are almost nonexistent by the ripe old age of 40.

When puberty starts in males at the age of 12 there is a huge flux in hormonal patterns in the body, which cause the growth of male characteristics, (deepening of the voice, growth of body hair, growth in height, etc.). These hormone levels increase by themselves so much that they can be compared to that of a mild steroid cycle. Therefore trying to add to what the body is doing on its own by adding in exogenous (outside) Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is very counter productive.

Whenever any extra amount of AAS is added to the body, the body recognizes this extra level through a feedback loop in the human body known as the Hypothalamus. Once the Hypothalamus recognizes the increase in hormones which happens usually between 14 and 21 days, the body will shut off its own production of hormones until these levels decrease, along with increasing hormones to decrease these extra levels in the body (cortisone, estrogen). Cortisone and Estrogen are 2 hormones in the body that BBs do not need any extra. The easiest way to try to explain this without getting to complicated, is that the more AAS you put in your body, the more your body will try to lower those levels. When this happens BBs get all the side effects that are normally associated with AAS use, gynecomastia (growth of fatty tissue underneath the breasts in males), hair loss, kidney damage, liver damage, and high blood pressure, just to name a few).

Before you consider the use of AAS you should have already reached your genetic potential. What is your genetic potential? To figure this out you should first look at the weight, height and build of other members in your family. Is this exact, no, but it is somewhere to start. If every male on both sides of your family is approximately 5'7" and weighs between 150lbs and 170lbs and they are all bald by the age of 25, then it would be a good guess that you will also fall somewhere in those ranges by the time you stop growing. Now with working out and eating correctly for 4 years lets say, you would be able to put on 15 or more pounds of muscle tissue (that would mean you now weigh 165-185 lbs.). This is what your genetic potential would be. Now if you started to use steroids at that point, 165-185 lbs you may be able to put on another 15-20 lbs (180-200lbs). If you had started using when you were 125 lbs., and gained 25lbs through the use of steroids, you would still be well short of what you could have gotten naturally (150lbs as compared to 180-200lbs), and now it will be much harder to try to gain another 30-40lbs.

So for a starting point lets say that you need to be at least 18 years of age before you consider using steroids. Now that we have a starting point, lets look at a few other factors that should be considered. Steroids DO NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM makes up for a good diet and workout program. Most people who use AAS feel that this is the time where they can be a little more relaxed in their workouts and diet. Actually this is when they should be even more strict. So before you can think of using at the age of 18, you will need 3 more solid years of good training and eating habits. Minor changes in diet and workouts can result in great gains in mass and muscle as well as strength.

No matter how much assistance you get from AAS, without proper nutrition and workouts you will be lucky to have any gains at all, let alone keep them after the cycle is over. The goal of using any substance, legal or not should be that after you stop using it you don't loose all of that which you have fought to get. What would be the point of spending all that money (steroids are not free) to gain that 30lbs when you will loose it after the cycle is over anyway?

So the better question to ask instead of when can I take steroids, should be, what can I do to get all that I can out of my body without needing steroids?. In order to calculate my progress, I need to talk with my family and doctors, before I try to make a choice like that.

We will start with the age range of 14-16; this is when your hormones are raging. Your body is in full swing of making the best steroids that you can ever get, and it does all this without you even needing to do a single thing. At this point you should start with a solid exercise plan and a basic supplement plan in addition to the regular food that you need to be eating on a regular basis.

For workouts focus on the basic compound movements (Bench Press, Squats, Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, etc.) Working out 4 days a week with at least 8 hours of sleep a night is a great start. Add to that the extra protein that you should be taking and you will definitely start seeing a difference in your body. As for supplements, at this point all I would suggest is a good Meal Replacement Shake, multi-vitamin and creatine. Any shake will work, just add 2 shakes a day to the 3 solid meals that you should already be eating. Creatine has more benefits then I could start to explain in this article, but what I can say is that it will help your strength, muscle, speed, and recovery without any negative side effects.

By the age of 16-18 you will have had most of your growth spurts and you will be ready to change a few more things in your overall plan. You workouts can become a little more specialized as you start using different exercises. As for your nutrition program, all that I would think of adding now would be something such as extra glutamine before bed and maybe a ZMA supplement. You still don?t want to take anything that would alter what your body is doing on its own, so using ZMA and glutamine is just what you need.

Somewhere between 18 and 21 you should be just about done growing, so what should you do differently now? Add more protein! You should be getting at the very least, your body weight in grams of protein per day! And that?s at the very least! By now you will have been working out consistently for quite a while and should know your body very well. What will work and what won?t work should be old news. There isn?t really anything new to add to what is already a great program, other than Tribulus and maybe a pre-workout supplement such as Ultimate Orange. After this point, you can start to consider the use of steroids. What about them? Are they as terrible as everyone seems to think they are? As long as they are used correctly, I don?t think so. When considering their use, I feel that orals should be used as late as possible. These are most harmful on the body and therefore should not be used for a very long time.

Another thing to consider, other than the side effects I have already spoken of, is your sex drive. Some AAS will make your sex drive almost nonexistent and will have a big effect on your sperm count. These drugs in particular should try to be avoided. That leaves mild anabolics. Although they are the safest to use, they are expensive, illegal, and require the use of a needle. Which most first time users do not want to use.

I told you that this is not something that should be passed off very easily; you shouldn?t have to make the mistakes that most of us make by using steroids to early in your life. If used correctly, I think they are fine, but look at what it takes in order to use them correctly. Have you been working out for 5 years straight without more the 2 weeks off every 6 weeks? Do you eat every 2-3 hours, 6 times a day without missing a meal? Do you get 8 hours of sleep every night? This is something that can have a huge effect on your body for the rest of your life, so don?t make that choice in 10 minutes. Good luck and keep growing.

Designer Labs President / CEO *

DIANASAUR, I believe the above is a little more than just hear say!!! It is not just a matter of hurting him physically, it is also a matter of MENTAL MATURITY AND DISIPLINE Which most of the younger guys wanting to do AAS lack and that can get them KILLED.
They are so GUNG HO on doing "juice" that they come to these boards or worse don't come, and INSTEAD of doing their homework and LEARNING the right way to do it. They want US to give them their magic pill and tell them it is OK for them to take it without and repricussions.
The VETS on here are just that, VETS, because they have the KNOWLEDGE wether their reasons for doing AAS are the same as younger guys or not, they have the experience because they took the TIME to LEARN. The way they advise on here, you would think they are PHD's.
So, If a 19 year old comes on here and acts like he has done homework and shows that he TRULY wants to gain KNOWLEDGE and not just Muscles, then THEY treat them as such. But when they come on here and pretty much act like they are gonna take what ever they want to take no matter what the Vets advise,( and sorry, but that is teh majority of them) then it is a waste of their EXTREMELY VALUABLE time that can much better be used to help US that are TRULY trying to learn and understand what we are about to do to our bodies!

**SMAN12b** · 04-27-2006, 03:50 AM

Bump!!!

**KAZUYA MISHIMA** · 04-27-2006, 04:08 AM

i would worry about low test for the rest of the life and fertility...some people says that if u run roids when u r a teen u will have to inject test for the rest of ur life.It's not true. But you can do irreparable damage to your endocrine and nervous system. Both are still in full growth during the teen years and even the early twenties. High correlations exist between abuse and appearance of psychological problems later in life, and the possibility exists that you will have lower test than you would normally for the rest of your life, or have fertility problems.

**Kale** · 04-27-2006, 04:11 AM

It would be nice to see some studies that do actaully show that juice can cause problems, although I doubt there are any. Does anybody know of any ? Scientific evidence is refutable !!!

**KAZUYA MISHIMA** · 04-27-2006, 04:12 AM

at ur age i would use some fat burner and x-factor which is a great product to gain mass. people sometimes have steroid -similar gains from it.

**SMAN12b** · 04-27-2006, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by Kale

It would be nice to see some studies that do actaully show that juice can cause problems, although I doubt there are any. Does anybody know of any ? Scientific evidence is refutable !!!

That would be great Kale, but I think that would be hard cause they would never want to admit to there mistakes, unless it was purely medical records in evidence

**Kale** · 04-27-2006, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

That would be great Kale, but I think that would be hard cause they would never want to admit to there mistakes, unless it was purely medical records in evidence

Yes its the medical eveidence I am interersted in, otherwise, really everything else is hearsay !

**KAZUYA MISHIMA** · 04-27-2006, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by Kale

It would be nice to see some studies that do actaully show that juice can cause problems, although I doubt there are any. Does anybody know of any ? Scientific evidence is refutable !!!

hmm..ask to a doctor

**Kale** · 04-27-2006, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by KAZUYA MISHIMA

hmm..ask to a doctor

Your not serious. Doctors dont know shit about any of this !!!

**SMAN12b** · 04-27-2006, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by Kale

Your not serious. Doctors dont know shit about any of this !!!

**KAZUYA MISHIMA** · 04-27-2006, 04:19 AM

ask to an endo i mean. they study our hormones and know everything about this shit and what happen when u use it

**KAZUYA MISHIMA** · 04-27-2006, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

pff..=)

---------------------------------------
ke kazzo t ridi pirla..

**Kale** · 04-27-2006, 04:24 AM

Unless there has been a comprehensive study done on a number of subjects then even the Endo's wouldnt really know. Sure they might have seen a few kids come and go that juiced a few years ago and now have no Test, but that is hardly conclusive evidence that this is a a danger to all kids. Now dont get me wrong, I am dead against kids using juice but at the same time, if you have a solid study to show them thats is hard eveidence, and that is difficult to argue with

**SMAN12b** · 04-27-2006, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by KAZUYA MISHIMA

pff..=)

---------------------------------------
ke kazzo t ridi pirla..

Care to translate into english for me

**KAZUYA MISHIMA** · 04-27-2006, 04:34 AM

yes may be...like every person reacts in a different way from using aas, at the same time every kid reacts in a different way...but there is anyway higher danger to get infertile or make serius problems at ur endocrine system imo than an adult would have

**KAZUYA MISHIMA** · 04-27-2006, 04:38 AM

bro dont worry, i wrote "what the hell r u laughing for?"
=)

**SMAN12b** · 04-27-2006, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by KAZUYA MISHIMA

bro dont worry, i wrote "what the hell r u laughing for?"
=)

sdhgl lsi fkd That means THANK YOU.. in Gorilla...lolol What can i say, i like to laugh

**KAZUYA MISHIMA** · 04-27-2006, 04:45 AM

dont worry bro, I was joking..!!=)
haha!!

**dianasaur** · 04-27-2006, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

DIANASAUR, I believe the above is a little more than just hear say!!! It is not just a matter of hurting him physically, it is also a matter of MENTAL MATURITY AND DISIPLINE Which most of the younger guys wanting to do AAS lack and that can get them KILLED.
They are so GUNG HO on doing "juice" that they come to these boards or worse don't come, and INSTEAD of doing their homework and LEARNING the right way to do it. They want US to give them their magic pill and tell them it is OK for them to take it without and repricussions.
The VETS on here are just that, VETS, because they have the KNOWLEDGE wether their reasons for doing AAS are the same as younger guys or not, they have the experience because they took the TIME to LEARN. The way they advise on here, you would think they are PHD's.
So, If a 19 year old comes on here and acts like he has done homework and shows that he TRULY wants to gain KNOWLEDGE and not just Muscles, then THEY treat them as such. But when they come on here and pretty much act like they are gonna take what ever they want to take no matter what the Vets advise,( and sorry, but that is teh majority of them) then it is a waste of their EXTREMELY VALUABLE time that can much better be used to help US that are TRULY trying to learn and understand what we are about to do to our bodies!

Sorry bro, going to have to disagree with a few of your points. First of all, that lengthy article you quoted isn't scientific in any way. Whoever wrote it makes a lot of claims, and some of them sound reasonable, but others (that hormone levels rise until the age of 26?) need more proof than just being said by the CEO of "Designer Labs." Whether it's true or not, most of that article sounds like something anyone with an intro bio textbook could put together. If people are going to discuss AAS from a biochemical perspective, then they should expect to have some of their claims questioned from a scientific standpoint as well. And if they can't or don't have the time to support their claims with any actual studies or credentials, then don't make them in the first place and just offer some personal experience / opinion instead.

Also, as for the Vets offering advice, I agree that they should offer this guy advice on things like good vs. bad reasons to take AAS, the importance of proper diet while on, personal experience, etc. But if anyone, vet or noob or whoever, is going to offer scientific advice (at the age of X your growth plates fuse, etc.) it's gotta have some evidence backing it up.

That being said, I do think your point about taking the time to LEARN about proper cycling, pct, etc. is extremely important and generally not done by a lot of guys that are younger.

**SMAN12b** · 04-27-2006, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by dianasaur

Sorry bro, going to have to disagree with a few of your points. First of all, that lengthy article you quoted isn't scientific in any way. Whoever wrote it makes a lot of claims, and some of them sound reasonable, but others (that hormone levels rise until the age of 26?) need more proof than just being said by the CEO of "Designer Labs." Whether it's true or not, most of that article sounds like something anyone with an intro bio textbook could put together. If people are going to discuss AAS from a biochemical perspective, then they should expect to have some of their claims questioned from a scientific standpoint as well. And if they can't or don't have the time to support their claims with any actual studies or credentials, then don't make them in the first place and just offer some personal experience / opinion instead.

Also, as for the Vets offering advice, I agree that they should offer this guy advice on things like good vs. bad reasons to take AAS, the importance of proper diet while on, personal experience, etc. But if anyone, vet or noob or whoever, is going to offer scientific advice (at the age of X your growth plates fuse, etc.) it's gotta have some evidence backing it up.

That being said, I do think your point about taking the time to LEARN about proper cycling, pct, etc. is extremely important and generally not done by a lot of guys that are younger.

YES, I agree. and there are many points and counterpoints that can be made concerning AAS and its use by anyone let alone the young. I guess that is why this board and the threads are so many..... It would be my HOPE that ANYONE looking to experiment with AAS would want to know as much information as possible and would do much of the research first hand instead of leaving their fate up to different faceless usernames on a message board!

But then again , I believe in Tinker Bell and Leprichans too...lol

**dianasaur** · 04-27-2006, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

YES, I agree. and there are many points and counterpoints that can be made concerning AAS and its use by anyone let alone the young. I guess that is why this board and the threads are so many..... It would be my HOPE that ANYONE looking to experiment with AAS would want to know as much information as possible and would do much of the research first hand instead of leaving their fate up to different faceless usernames on a message board!

But then again , I believe in Tinker Bell and Leprichans too...lol

Haha, I agree..... When the day comes where the OP in one of these "I'm thinking about taking steroids ...." threads mentions having read any scientific studies or profiles of different compounds, I think the devil is going to need a nice thick jacket.