Steroids - late teens - permanent damage?

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 08:30 AM

I'm 19 - and have just bought AAS. (with pct)
I' thinking about taking it for 8-12weeks.
I'm fully grown in height (6foot 2 inches). And have a full beard.

Recently I bumped over people talking about health consequences, taking steroids at a young age.
What consequences could I expect?
Are they permanent?

**shadyadam** · 04-21-2006, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by redline1986

I'm 19 - and have just bought AAS. (with pct)
I' thinking about taking it for 8-12weeks.
I'm fully grown in height (6foot 2 inches). And have a full beard.

Recently I bumped over people talking about health consequences, taking steroids at a young age.
What consequences could I expect?
Are they permanent?

Well for one your growth plates havent fused yet...you could be screwing up your bone structure. Wait man you have so much more potential at 19, ask some of the vets here. Some wish they could have waited a little longer to take roids as they could have had even better results if they waited.

**anaBROLIC** · 04-21-2006, 08:33 AM

your 6'2 at what weight???

**Timm1704** · 04-21-2006, 08:36 AM

id wait another two years. i have afeeling, as with most 19 year olds, that your diet will not be the best, go visit the diet forum, hold off on the gear. i started when i was 19, altho id already been training 7 years and eating a solid diet for about 4 years. right now i have no ill effects, but they may show in the future

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by shadyadam

Well for one your growth plates havent fused yet...you could be screwing up your bone structure. Wait man you have so much more potential at 19, ask some of the vets here. Some wish they could have waited a little longer to take roids as they could have had even better results if they waited.

Thanks a lot for the advices.

It would be great if ther was a method to check out how my bone plates is..
Does anyone know how to find out if the growth plated have fused?

(I came early in puberty , and have always had a "older body" than my friends)

**shadyadam** · 04-21-2006, 08:53 AM

18 in boys but the growth plates in the vertebrae in the back do not fuse until the mid twenties! So you are looking at 24yrs old should be a good staring point!

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by shadyadam

18 in boys but the growth plates in the vertebrae in the back do not fuse until the mid twenties! So you are looking at 24yrs old should be a good staring point!

Hmmm. In laymen terms that would be, I wont get the normal "wide shouldered" bones ..(?) I know for a fact that I'm not fully matured in bone width...

I've heard about Anavar and Winstrol being safe to talke even in early teens.
Maybe I should stick to them ...?

**longhorn814** · 04-21-2006, 09:21 AM

at 19 your endocrine system is not fully developed yet. Taking steroids will shut down your natural testosterone production and can effect the development of your endocrine system which can cause permanent side effects down the road such as sterility and sexual dysfunction. Wait a few more years. You should be able to grow naturally quite well at your age with a solid diet and training program. In a few years if you wanna hit the juice, you'll get a lot better results b/c your body is fully developed

**shadyadam** · 04-21-2006, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by redline1986

Hmmm. In laymen terms that would be, I wont get the normal "wide shouldered" bones ..(?) I know for a fact that I'm not fully matured in bone width...

I've heard about Anavar and Winstrol being safe to talke even in early teens.
Maybe I should stick to them ...?

Maybe you should wait...god its like talking to a wall with some people...

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 09:32 AM

I have a copy of the book "anabolics 2006" of William Llewellyn.

Where he writes:

Under "steroid side effets"
- Stunted Growth

"...Interestingly enough, it is not the steroids themselves, but the buildup of estrogen that causes the epiphyseal plates to fuse..." "...In fact, the use of steroids like Anavar , Winstrol (which do not convert to estrogen) can actually increase one's height if taken during adolesence..."

I have already bought Durabolin - guess I'm better off selling it ..

Anyhow the book says that one should avoid steroids in adolecents (I'm 1month away from not being an adolencent anymore) It doesn't say anything about after adolencens ... So it's important info you ppl have given me ..!

**Mike Dura** · 04-21-2006, 09:39 AM

No doubt about it. If you're not at your full height steroids will stunt your growth. I know from experience. When I was 18 (I'm 37 now) I did a cycle with 10 mgs of Dianabol ED with one CC (200 mgs) a week (that's a very small dose) and I was 5'8". My best friend was the same height and we both went to college. When he came back for break he stood 5'10" and I remained at 5'8." By the time he graduated he stood 6'1." I tower over gnomes at 5'8" to this very day. Stunted growth...yes. That's permanent. Luckily for me I have a big "unit" though.

Originally Posted by redline1986

I have a copy of the book "anabolics 2006" of William Llewellyn.
Where he writes:

Under "steroid side effets"
- Stunted Growth

"...Interestingly enough, it is not the steroids themselves, but the buildup of estrogen that causes the epiphyseal plates to fuse..." "...In fact, the use of steroids like Anavar , Winstrol (which do not convert to estrogen) can actually increase one's height if taken during adolesence..."

I have allready bought Durabolin - guess I'm better off selling it ..

**Kale** · 04-21-2006, 09:47 AM

Read this

"What is the Right Age to Start Using Steroids ?

By: Brandon Walsh
This article is being published in hopes of reaching some of the younger people, involved in our great sport of body building, reach their goals without making the great mistake of using steroids too early in their long lives. The problem with this is that most young bodybuilders (BBs) cannot grasp the concept of the future and how long the road ahead really is even with the use of steroids. How do you convince a 14 year old that it will take years before he can look like the Pro BB's in the magazines, and that he may never look like that even with all the drugs available in the world. Well that is what I hope to accomplish within this article.

At what age should you be, before you consider using steroids? This question is not as easily answered as you may think it is. You cannot randomly just pick an age and say that this is the point at which you can now start to consider using steroids.

Between the ages of 12 and 26 a male's hormone levels are on a steady rise until the age of 26. This is when these levels slowly start to decline until they are almost nonexistent by the ripe old age of 40.

When puberty starts in males at the age of 12 there is a huge flux in hormonal patterns in the body, which cause the growth of male characteristics, (deepening of the voice, growth of body hair, growth in height, etc.). These hormone levels increase by themselves so much that they can be compared to that of a mild steroid cycle. Therefore trying to add to what the body is doing on its own by adding in exogenous (outside) Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) is very counter productive.

Whenever any extra amount of AAS is added to the body, the body recognizes this extra level through a feedback loop in the human body known as the Hypothalamus. Once the Hypothalamus recognizes the increase in hormones which happens usually between 14 and 21 days, the body will shut off its own production of hormones until these levels decrease, along with increasing hormones to decrease these extra levels in the body (cortisone, estrogen). Cortisone and Estrogen are 2 hormones in the body that BBs do not need any extra. The easiest way to try to explain this without getting to complicated, is that the more AAS you put in your body, the more your body will try to lower those levels. When this happens BBs get all the side effects that are normally associated with AAS use, gynecomastia (growth of fatty tissue underneath the breasts in males), hair loss, kidney damage, liver damage, and high blood pressure, just to name a few).

Before you consider the use of AAS you should have already reached your genetic potential. What is your genetic potential? To figure this out you should first look at the weight, height and build of other members in your family. Is this exact, no, but it is somewhere to start. If every male on both sides of your family is approximately 5'7" and weighs between 150lbs and 170lbs and they are all bald by the age of 25, then it would be a good guess that you will also fall somewhere in those ranges by the time you stop growing. Now with working out and eating correctly for 4 years lets say, you would be able to put on 15 or more pounds of muscle tissue (that would mean you now weigh 165-185 lbs.). This is what your genetic potential would be. Now if you started to use steroids at that point, 165-185 lbs you may be able to put on another 15-20 lbs (180-200lbs). If you had started using when you were 125 lbs., and gained 25lbs through the use of steroids, you would still be well short of what you could have gotten naturally (150lbs as compared to 180-200lbs), and now it will be much harder to try to gain another 30-40lbs.

So for a starting point lets say that you need to be at least 18 years of age before you consider using steroids. Now that we have a starting point, lets look at a few other factors that should be considered. Steroids DO NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM makes up for a good diet and workout program. Most people who use AAS feel that this is the time where they can be a little more relaxed in their workouts and diet. Actually this is when they should be even more strict. So before you can think of using at the age of 18, you will need 3 more solid years of good training and eating habits. Minor changes in diet and workouts can result in great gains in mass and muscle as well as strength.

No matter how much assistance you get from AAS, without proper nutrition and workouts you will be lucky to have any gains at all, let alone keep them after the cycle is over. The goal of using any substance, legal or not should be that after you stop using it you don't loose all of that which you have fought to get. What would be the point of spending all that money (steroids are not free) to gain that 30lbs when you will loose it after the cycle is over anyway?

So the better question to ask instead of when can I take steroids, should be, what can I do to get all that I can out of my body without needing steroids?. In order to calculate my progress, I need to talk with my family and doctors, before I try to make a choice like that.

We will start with the age range of 14-16; this is when your hormones are raging. Your body is in full swing of making the best steroids that you can ever get, and it does all this without you even needing to do a single thing. At this point you should start with a solid exercise plan and a basic supplement plan in addition to the regular food that you need to be eating on a regular basis.

For workouts focus on the basic compound movements (Bench Press, Squats, Deadlifts, Barbell Curls, etc.) Working out 4 days a week with at least 8 hours of sleep a night is a great start. Add to that the extra protein that you should be taking and you will definitely start seeing a difference in your body. As for supplements, at this point all I would suggest is a good Meal Replacement Shake, multi-vitamin and creatine. Any shake will work, just add 2 shakes a day to the 3 solid meals that you should already be eating. Creatine has more benefits then I could start to explain in this article, but what I can say is that it will help your strength, muscle, speed, and recovery without any negative side effects.

By the age of 16-18 you will have had most of your growth spurts and you will be ready to change a few more things in your overall plan. You workouts can become a little more specialized as you start using different exercises. As for your nutrition program, all that I would think of adding now would be something such as extra glutamine before bed and maybe a ZMA supplement. You still don?t want to take anything that would alter what your body is doing on its own, so using ZMA and glutamine is just what you need.

Somewhere between 18 and 21 you should be just about done growing, so what should you do differently now? Add more protein! You should be getting at the very least, your body weight in grams of protein per day! And that?s at the very least! By now you will have been working out consistently for quite a while and should know your body very well. What will work and what won?t work should be old news. There isn?t really anything new to add to what is already a great program, other than Tribulus and maybe a pre-workout supplement such as Ultimate Orange. After this point, you can start to consider the use of steroids. What about them? Are they as terrible as everyone seems to think they are? As long as they are used correctly, I don?t think so. When considering their use, I feel that orals should be used as late as possible. These are most harmful on the body and therefore should not be used for a very long time.

Another thing to consider, other than the side effects I have already spoken of, is your sex drive. Some AAS will make your sex drive almost nonexistent and will have a big effect on your sperm count. These drugs in particular should try to be avoided. That leaves mild anabolics. Although they are the safest to use, they are expensive, illegal, and require the use of a needle. Which most first time users do not want to use.

I told you that this is not something that should be passed off very easily; you shouldn?t have to make the mistakes that most of us make by using steroids to early in your life. If used correctly, I think they are fine, but look at what it takes in order to use them correctly. Have you been working out for 5 years straight without more the 2 weeks off every 6 weeks? Do you eat every 2-3 hours, 6 times a day without missing a meal? Do you get 8 hours of sleep every night? This is something that can have a huge effect on your body for the rest of your life, so don?t make that choice in 10 minutes. Good luck and keep growing.

Designer Labs President / CEO *

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

No doubt about it. If you're not at your full height steroids will stunt your growth. I know from experience. When I was 18 (I'm 37 now) I did a cycle with 10 mgs of Dianabol ED with one CC (200 mgs) a week (that's a very small dose) and I was 5'8". My best friend was the same height and we both went to college. When he came back for break he stood 5'10" and I remained at 5'8." By the time he graduated he stood 6'1." I tower over gnomes at 5'8" to this very day. Stunted growth...yes. That's permanent. Luckily for me I have a big "unit" though.

Surprising ! I though everybody stopped (or almost stopped) growing in height after 18.

**SMAN12b** · 04-21-2006, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by redline1986

Thanks a lot for the advices.

It would be great if ther was a method to check out how my bone plates is..
Does anyone know how to find out if the growth plated have fused?

(I came early in puberty , and have always had a "older body" than my friends)

Don't quote me but I think it is an MRI you need to see if your growth plates are fused!! I would not touch AAS until I had that confirmed or you WILL screw yourself for life!!!

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

Don't quote me but I think it is an MRI you need to see if your growth plates are fused!! I would not touch AAS until I had that confirmed or you WILL screw yourself for life!!!

From what shadyadam is writing I know my growth plates aren't fused..

Has anyone heard anything contradicting William Llewellyn's allegations in "anabolics 2006" where he says Winstrol and Anavar is safe drugs in terms of stuttered growth?

I really appriciate you advice volks!!

**shadyadam** · 04-21-2006, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by redline1986

From what shadyadam is writing I know my growth plates aren't fused..

Has anyone heard anything contradicting William Llewellyn's allegations in "anabolics 2006" where he says Winstrol and Anavar is safe drugs in terms of stuttered growth?

I really appriciate you advice volks!!

Lets turn the tide for a sec. What are your goals? What are you trying to attain? I'm asking this because what you are trying to do may not even require steroids at all.

**Mesomorphyl** · 04-21-2006, 11:34 AM

You could go bald... you could have hypogonads the rest of your life(pea sized testicles)... sterility... sexual dysfunction... gynocomastia(bitch tits)... these are the ones I would think a teenager would want to think about.

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by shadyadam

Lets turn the tide for a sec. What are your goals? What are you trying to attain? I'm asking this because what you are trying to do may not even require steroids at all.

Well I could really sum up my goals in a picture: ("my" profile picture)

Now I'm 6' 2 weighing 93kg (205lbs) bodyfat is ca 20% used a "fat picher"
This is with abosulte no exercise at all:

I've been bed lying sick for 2.5 years now. I'm on my way back
(In some months I'll be on my feet again - I'm on ABX)

My bodyfat when being well was ca. 10% without exercise.

I want to get like that in as few months as possible (hopefully 3-4 months)

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

You could go bald... you could have hypogonads the rest of your life(pea sized testicles)... sterility... sexual dysfunction... gynocomastia(bitch tits)... these are the ones I would think a teenager would want to think about.

you don't get hypogonads from winstor and anavar - as they don't slow your narmal test production

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 11:43 AM

didn't get my photo in. here it comes

**Mesomorphyl** · 04-21-2006, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by redline1986

you don't get hypogonads from winstor and anavar - as they don't slow your narmal test production

You are wrong.

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 11:48 AM

I might be wrong Mesomorphyl - when I say it doesn't interfere ...

Can you tell me why you think I'm wrong?

**Mesomorphyl** · 04-21-2006, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by redline1986

I might be wrong Mesomorphyl - when I say it doesn't interfere ...

Can you tell me why you think I'm wrong?

First there is a profile forum for you to look at... pub med or google... there is also a search button on your screen to look at posts that have been made over the years. And if that is not enough there are experienced people who have knowledge... Look up anavar only cycle etc...

**shadyadam** · 04-21-2006, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by redline1986

Well I could really sum up my goals in a picture: ("my" profile picture)

Now I'm 6' 2 weighing 93kg (205lbs) bodyfat is ca 20% used a "fat picher"
This is with abosulte no exercise at all:

I've been bed lying sick for 2.5 years now. I'm on my way back
(In some months I'll be on my feet again - I'm on ABX)

My bodyfat when being well was ca. 10% without exercise.

I want to get like that in as few months as possible (hopefully 3-4 months)

Thats pretty attainable without riods my man. You could do alot of cardio, change up your diet, and proper weight training will get you to your goals.

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 11:57 AM

Can't get the picture up sao I'll put in a link

My training would be only for the laydies.

So the physice of "niko" in playgirl (the counterpart of Playboy) is my goal:

http://www.playgirltv.com/specials/e...ncounter.html#

Is this possible within 3-4 months without AAS?

**Mesomorphyl** · 04-21-2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by redline1986

Can't get the picture up sao I'll put in a link

My training would be only for the laydies.

So the physice of "niko" in playgirl (the counterpart of Playboy) is my goal:

http://www.playgirltv.com/specials/e...ncounter.html#

Is this possible within 3-4 months without AAS?

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by shadyadam

Thats pretty attainable without riods my man. You could do alot of cardio, change up your diet, and proper weight training will get you to your goals.

I know I get to 10% bodyfat from just starting to move again ... I'm bed lying

I couldn't get the picture up... By getting like "that" I really ment getting like the picture ... My bad .

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

First there is a profile forum for you to look at... pub med or google... there is also a search button on your screen to look at posts that have been made over the years. And if that is not enough there are experienced people who have knowledge... Look up anavar only cycle etc...

hehe..that's ok. make fun

I've looked in pubmed now - couldn't find anything

Have you read about anavar and test production before?

If you have please give me a link

**Mesomorphyl** · 04-21-2006, 12:09 PM

I am not going to do your work for you. But have been helpful and given you direction. But... I do not think that is what you are looking for, it is a warm fuzzy feeling you are looking for after you get people to agree with you because you know everything already. Am I right or Am I right?

**shadyadam** · 04-21-2006, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by redline1986

Can't get the picture up sao I'll put in a link

My training would be only for the laydies.

So the physice of "niko" in playgirl (the counterpart of Playboy) is my goal:

http://www.playgirltv.com/specials/e...ncounter.html#

Is this possible within 3-4 months without AAS?

Dude no one can get a body like that "theoretically" speaking. We all have different body types and honestly if you wanna train for the "ladies" then steroids and this discussion should stop. Don't waste your time and investment of your body just to get some bitch...do it because you want to better yourself and feel great about yourself, not what some bitch thinks...

And also why are you bed ridden? AAS could effect on any sort of medication your on.

**Elexecution** · 04-21-2006, 12:15 PM

I used steroids in high school and I will be honest with you I haven't noticed a thing different since then. But then again I haven't checked my liver/kidney values or anything so I really wouldn't recommend it.

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 12:16 PM

Mesomorphyl
I'm sorry if I'd portraited myself that way.

I'm by all means not trying to be a "know it all".

Seriously I'm seeking your advice .. !

If Anavar is dangerous to me I'd most definitely like to know..

And if you have read so in pub-med earlier - I'd also like to know !

**shadyadam** · 04-21-2006, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by redline1986

I'm sorry if I'd portraited myself that way.

I'm by all means not trying to be a "know it all".

Seriously I'm seeking your advice .. !

If Anavar is dangerous to me I'd most definitely like to know..

And if you have read so in pub-med earlier - I'd also like to know !

In that case wait...thats my final advice to you!

**Mesomorphyl** · 04-21-2006, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by redline1986

Mesomorphyl
I'm sorry if I'd portraited myself that way.

I'm by all means not trying to be a "know it all".

Seriously I'm seeking your advice .. !

If Anavar is dangerous to me I'd most definitely like to know..

And if you have read so in pub-med earlier - I'd also like to know !

Dangerous no... could it effect you permanently... maybe. I have read on the subject as well as using the compound but I am not going to research it for you. Hell I dont even do that to post on boards...

**Elexecution** · 04-21-2006, 12:20 PM

Advice to you.

If you're just thinking about taking it to get bigger just to get bigger, don't even think about it.

I took steroids my senior of high school to get me over the top to a baseball scholarship. It was going to save my parents a lot of money for college. Don't do it just for the hell of it.

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by shadyadam

Dude no one can get a body like that "theoretically" speaking. We all have different body types and honestly if you wanna train for the "ladies" then steroids and this discussion should stop. Don't waste your time and investment of your body just to get some bitch...do it because you want to better yourself and feel great about yourself, not what some bitch thinks...

And also why are you bed ridden? AAS could effect on any sort of medication your on.

'

well we all have different reasons for training some for contest, some for fighting, etc etc. but let's not get into that ...

Please explain: "Dude no one can get a body like that "theoretically" speaking."
What's special with his muscles compared to other muscles?

bed lying because of infection in CNS. ABX is treatment - wouln't and can't train until I'm rid of it ...

**Hellmaskbanned** · 04-21-2006, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by redline1986

'

well we all have different reasons for training some for contest, some for fighting, etc etc. but let's not get into that ...

Please explain: "Dude no one can get a body like that "theoretically" speaking."
What's special with his muscles compared to other muscles?

bed lying because of infection in CNS. ABX is treatment - wouln't and can't train until I'm rid of it ...

So you can't even train , but you want to use aas? If this is the case this thread gets Hellmask's "retarded thread of the day" award.

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 12:45 PM

Hellmask
hehe. read more thoroughly before you write

wouldn’t and can't train until I'm rid of it ...
I'm so in some months ...

**Hellmaskbanned** · 04-21-2006, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by redline1986

hehe. read more thoroughly before you write

wouldn’t and can't train until I'm rid of it ...
I'm so in some months ...

Well once your healthy and able to train. Do this for 3 years, then maybe then you will have a solid natural base foundation, and are experienced in training and gaining naturally, so when you do use aas you will keep your gains.

**redline1986** · 04-21-2006, 12:53 PM

Is Niko's muscles "unnatural" in any way?
http://www.playgirltv.com/specials/e...ncounter.html#

(besides little water - fat etc when picture was taken...)

Is it hard to gain that type of cutted+lean muscle?