Other than Dbol????

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 02:51 PM

Not crazy about orals. What else would make a good "kickstart" (preferably injectable) and why do you think so?

Thanks

_________
SMAN

**anaBROLIC** · 05-13-2006, 02:52 PM

prop

**C_Bino** · 05-13-2006, 03:01 PM

IMO nothing kickstarts faster than an oral. I see results much faster from orals than fast acting injectables.

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 03:09 PM

My thoughts are to go with Prop. I know ED shots @100mgs is the average, How many weeks to use it though.

Bino, I have NEVER taken orals, for fear of my liver. How harsh would the dbol be for 4 weeks??

**Jakspro** · 05-13-2006, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

Bino, I have NEVER taken orals, for fear of my liver. How harsh would the dbol be for 4 weeks??

I've never taken any and can't give you personal experience, BUT i have read many many post about it. And in my readings i've found arguements for it being extremely harsh and it being "the breakfast of champions", but most will tell you that it can be minimized with taking milk Thisle. Also you'll come accross several people who've taken Dbol for 8 weeks straight, leading up to 50mgs. Or other taking Dbol for 6 weeks followed by oral winny for 4 weeks.

Bump for people who've had liver problems show up on their blood work from taking Dbol along with injections...

**WEBB** · 05-13-2006, 03:55 PM

you have 2 options go with dbol at like 30-40mg ed for no more than 4 weeks and take some milk thistle to help with your liver...hbut imo i dont think you will have to much prob;em with liver values

second option...use 100mg of prop eod...for like 2-3 weeks will be long enough...also dont go with ed inj, go with eod and you will be happy for sure...

imo, they are the same with regards to kickstarting...but dbol is a little quicker, but you are worried about your liver...prop is slower but it is inj, and a test so you wont get the bloat like dbol...

in the end its up to you...good luck....i would go with prop if you care...

WEBB

**anaBROLIC** · 05-13-2006, 04:13 PM

go prop 100mgs day for 4 weeks. you will see very good results and will see them as soon as 12 days or so in..

**D-Money** · 05-13-2006, 04:17 PM

Test suspension for 5 days @ 100mg !!!

**WEBB** · 05-13-2006, 04:20 PM

anabrolic...for kick starting ed is good but i would suggest eod, for 2-3 weeks...but it is more a matter of personal opinion...and i see prop results in 6 days max

**anaBROLIC** · 05-13-2006, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by WEBB

anabrolic...for kick starting ed is good but i would suggest eod, for 2-3 weeks...but it is more a matter of personal opinion...and i see prop results in 6 days max

maybe an increase of appetite in 6 days, i dont know about seeing results? why do you like it for 2-3 weeks?? what is the reasoning behind it. the reason why i say 4 is this... alot of the other compounds for a longer cycle like test E, C, deca ,..etc dont start to take effect and show results until atleast week 4.. so by running the prop til week 4 your body will move right into the other compounds with results without waiting..i personally dont think you start to see much with the prop until 10-12 days in which is about 2 weeks. i wouldnt discontinue it at that point, seems pointless..

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 04:28 PM

Thanks guys for your opinions. Now you know whyI am still not sure which way to go. there is definetly pros and cons for both dbol and pro. Lets see if we can get any of the vets/mods to chime in and see how they feel also.

THANKS AGAIN

________
SMAN

**WEBB** · 05-13-2006, 04:35 PM

i guess it is becaus ewith my test e i seen gains around 3 weeks at the latest...and i have seen my strebght start to increase at 7 days with prop...i think we can both agree alot of it is determined by the person, the gear, and the preferences of what they are used to...

**~fuelforfire~** · 05-13-2006, 05:24 PM

Id say prop for sure man.

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by ~fuelforfire~

Id say prop for sure man.

That's the way I'm leaning bro, thanks

**~fuelforfire~** · 05-13-2006, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

That's the way I'm leaning bro, thanks

thats cool, i hate dbol aswell

**Jakspro** · 05-13-2006, 05:27 PM

Isnt there alot less bloat with prop as well?

**C_Bino** · 05-13-2006, 06:05 PM

Well I didnt read through the whole thread, but in reply to the hepatotoxicity of orals I wouldnt be too worried. I mean for 4 weeks of d-bol at a reasonable dose you will be fine, run some milk thistle with it and get your liver values checked before and after use. The liver is VERY resilliant and orals are not as bad as many think, in fact I know guys who run orals without any protectants and have no problems (at very high doses as well, not in your range). Dont worry man, orals can be a benefit for sure.

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 06:07 PM

THANKS BINO !! What are your thoughts on bloat with dbol comparedto the prop?

**Lavinco** · 05-13-2006, 06:09 PM

dbol works great at lower doses like 15-25mg a day as well. You get good results and less sides.

You also don't have to go a full 4 weeks. You could stop at 3 just for a kickstart.

Other than dbol, I would suggest sust 250. It has 4 different test compounds in it that release all at different times. It does include prop.

**C_Bino** · 05-13-2006, 06:10 PM

D-bol WILL bloat you, no doubt about it you wil retain water. But that water retention is going to help with strength gains so its not something you would totally want to diminish. Plus you can lose the bloat fast and if you control your diet etc it can be kept under control to some degree.
Really the only way to know is to try it, thats how I know right...
Prop is better than d-bol, in more ways than one I will add. But if you want a jumpstart there is nothing better than an oral imo.

**anaBROLIC** · 05-13-2006, 07:39 PM

i think it matters a big deal based on what your cycle goals are. your not going to take dbol if your looking to cut. and prop isnt the best if your looking to bulk. i actually did enjoy the liquid dbol i used once. i ran it at 25mgs day and gained 25 lbs in 4 weeks.

**HORSE~** · 05-13-2006, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Lavinco

dbol works great at lower doses like 15-25mg a day as well. You get good results and less sides.

You also don't have to go a full 4 weeks. You could stop at 3 just for a kickstart.

Other than dbol, I would suggest sust 250. It has 4 different test compounds in it that release all at different times. It does include prop.

How is sust good for A kick start????

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by anaBROLIC

i think it matters a big deal based on what your cycle goals are. your not going to take dbol if your looking to cut. and prop isnt the best if your looking to bulk. i actually did enjoy the liquid dbol i used once. i ran it at 25mgs day and gained 25 lbs in 4 weeks.

That is interesting anaBROLIC, I was looking into the liquid dbol and was wondering how it works.

THANKS

**anaBROLIC** · 05-13-2006, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by horse2006

How is sust good for A kick start????

dont use sust to kickstart any cycle, 3 of the 4 compounds involved take 4 weeks to kick in..

**Lavinco** · 05-13-2006, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by anaBROLIC

dont use sust to kickstart any cycle, 3 of the 4 compounds involved take 4 weeks to kick in..

Thus my point!

Sustanon is a blend of different estered testosterones (4 of them): testosterone propionate - 30 mg, testosterone phenylpropionate - 60 mg, testosterone isocaproate - 60mg, and testosterone decanoate -100 mg.

Sust was designed for quick AND slow releases utilizing all the compounds.

He asked about anything other than an oral steroid .

Sust is just my 2 cents.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199796

read all about it

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Lavinco

Thus my point!

Sustanon is a blend of different estered testosterones (4 of them): testosterone propionate - 30 mg, testosterone phenylpropionate - 60 mg, testosterone isocaproate - 60mg, and testosterone decanoate -100 mg.

Sust was designed for quick AND slow releases utilizing all the compounds.

He asked about anything other than an oral steroid .

Sust is just my 2 cents.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199796

read all about it

Thanks for your 2 cents Lavinco, the only problem I see with using sust, is that it only contains 30mg, of the prop which is the fast acting ester. I dont' see that being enough to do the whole "KICKSTART" thing whereas if I shot just PROP ED at 100mgs/day, then I would get the full effect of the faster ester without the other slower esters possible messin with my blood levels for when my Test E kicks in.

Good thing I still have 2 months before the cycle starts to keep researching.

Thanks all

**HORSE~** · 05-13-2006, 09:57 PM

If you do 750 mg of sust A day youll get 90mg of prop A day.

Damn sounds like a lot of test just to get the prop for A kick start,but if can suck out the other three tests you would be good to go.

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by horse2006

If you do 750 mg of sust A day youll get 90mg of prop A day.

Damn sounds like a lot of test just to get the prop for A kick start,but if can suck out the other three tests you would be good to go.

Boy horse, I certainly HOPE this is a joke......lolol

Think I just stick with the prop

**Lavinco** · 05-13-2006, 10:02 PM

sust could be used as stand alone or stacked smart asses.

I have experience with dbol , test E and sust 250.

Sust works good for me.

Sust could also be used from 500mg/wk injected EOD on up to whatever limit you can handle the side effects.

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Lavinco

sust could be used as stand alone or stacked smart asses.

I have experience with dbol , test E and sust 250.

Sust works good for me.

Sust could also be used from 500mg/wk injected EOD on up to whatever limit you can handle the side effects.

Hey Lav, I wasn't tryin to be a smartass with you! I just don't think that sust would work well with my cycle cause I was only planning 500/wk of the test E, taking sust would jump that up by half or double that is why I think just the prop for a few weeks up front wouldnt' be bad....

Sorry if you thought I was bein a smartass with ya bro

**HORSE~** · 05-13-2006, 10:08 PM

I like sust to but dont start to see or feel anything until about week 5 or 6 so I like to use A Dbol kick starter with it.

**C_Bino** · 05-13-2006, 10:11 PM

I will never use sust. Never have and have no intent to. The blends are usually more expensive and I dont really see the point. Why spend more money and get a blend when you can just use Test E for cheaper, I mean its still test and will work just as well. I cant speak for everyone as I know A LOT of people use test, but any of the people I train with, hang around that are heavy into BB dont use blends of AAS. Just go straight with Test P and Tren A, never use Sust and that Tri-tren stuff. Why would it be any better?

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 10:14 PM

THANKS BINO, thats good enough for me!!!!!

**Jakspro** · 05-13-2006, 10:56 PM

What about considering stretch marks. This could be irrelivent, but i'll ask cause i'm kinda wondering... If you slap on 25lbs in 4 weeks you'll surely have some crazy stretch marks. How does Prop compare here, how many lbs do you think you'll gain in 4 weeks? Enough to kickstart the cycle yet not enough to cause stretch marks?

**Kale** · 05-13-2006, 11:08 PM

I have used Prop and Dbol , I am using Prop in my current cycle and it kicks dbol's arse hands down, no bloat, Kicked in within a week

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kale

I have used Prop and Dbol, I am using Prop in my current cycle and it kicks dbol's arse hands down, no bloat, Kicked in within a week

Thanks Kale, I was hopin you would chime in here. What was your dose and duration for the Prop?

I was thinking 100/day for 4 weeks

**Kale** · 05-13-2006, 11:16 PM

I am doing 125mg EOD for 5 weeks along with 125mg Deca EOD. I am also doing Test E at 250mg 3 times a week and 80mg Var ED The Deca will go for 13 weeks and the Test E will go for 14 weeks. I will never use Dbol again, to many sides for me.

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Kale

I am doing 125mg EOD for 5 weeks along with 125mg Deca EOD. I am also doing Test E at 250mg 3 times a week and 80mg Var ED The Deca will go for 13 weeks and the Test E will go for 14 weeks. I will never use Dbol again, to many sides for me.

So, you think that EOD will be good for a kickstart for me? I will be takin test E and decca and winny at the end

**Kale** · 05-13-2006, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

So, you think that EOD will be good for a kickstart for me? I will be takin test E and decca and winny at the end

Fvcking oath I do. Show me what your cycle looks like so far. I am doing winny at the end as well, then going straight into HGH and cruising on 100mg Test E to the next cycle

**SMAN12b** · 05-13-2006, 11:27 PM

OK here goes:

Two months of HGH starting at 2iu's 5/2 working up to 4 ius by July when my cycles starts and continuing for a total of 6 months HGH

CYCLE:

Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 500/wk
Weeks 1-10 Decca @ 300/wk
Weeks 9-14 Winny @ 50/ED

Will be using HCG throughout along with Arimidex
then clomid and nolva for PCT

After a few more weeks of research here, I am thinking a kickstart of Prop might be good since Test E won't kick in til weeks 4-6