What's the difference between progesterone and prolactin?

[guest589745]

I just got done reading in the educational section and now I am even more confused then when I started reading.

TO prevent gyno from deca (for example, I believe all 19nors do though) one would have to prevent buildup of progesterone and prolactin right? Prolactin can effect the mammary gland and cause gyno corect? Progesterone effects us how..........??

Can someone elaborate on teh conversions and effects of progesterone and prolactin please? I am getting confused as I research the two.

[guest589745]

Prolactin can be prevented by B6 and cabergoline right?

Then what can prevent progesterone?

[Merc..]

Have you seen this skull???? Pretty interesting not sure if you saw it but here it is a anyways..

Progesterone induced gynecomastia ? Don't think so

I would like to cear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia.

Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren ? Deca ? Sorry but it just doesn't happen.

Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms.

There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect
With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though

Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well.

[Merc..]

Prolactin can be prevented by B6 and cabergoline right?

Then what can prevent progesterone?

Letro can reduce progesterone receptors so it can help...

[guest589745]

Ok I def gotta get some caber and B6 then too.

[one8nine]

can anyone name a research chem site that sell caber, i have found online pharmacies but they are EXPENSIVE

[D-Money]

dostinex/carboline: for prolactin sides???
Letro: progesterone sides???

Thats how I always understood it.

[Swifto]

I believe Letro has the ability to reduce progesterone/prolactin and estrogen.

I think people seem to over hype and over worry when using 19-Nor's and worrying about progesterone/prolactin related gyno.

I've never seen any problems reported by members here when running an AI, when also combining it with Vit-B6 100-200mg/ED.

The AI should be determined by the dosages of the compounds used and how heavily they aromotase. For example, I wouldnt use Proviron as the primary weapon to reduce estrogen when using 1-2g/wk of Test and high doses of both Deca , Tren . Its simply not effective enough, as Aromasin /Letro/Arimidex /L-Dex.

And please remember, dont use Nolva when using 19-Nor's. Its been recorded that it can activate the PgR.

This information is not from personal experience. But from experiences by members here, and other boards.

[guest589745]

Thanks swifto.

SO for this cycle:
1-12 750 cyp
1-10 450 deca
1-4(6) 40mg Dbol
8-14 40mg var

What would you suggest ancillery wise?

[Merc..]

Prolactin can be prevented by B6 and cabergoline right?

Then what can prevent progesterone?

Skull , Lilopristone and onapristone and RU-486 are progesterone blockers... Just to futher answer your question on what can prevent progesterone......

[Merc..]

Not swifto lol but I would use letro. It takes a little while for it to build a steady blood plasma . Most people start it like two weeks before there cycle. Yea make sure you dont use nolva as it increases PgR in breast tissue...

[guest589745]

I was just gonna go with caber/ldex/B6

???

[Merc..]

Imo letro is a better choice when using a 19 nor... It will help lower progesterone receptors and is a stronger AI than ldex... Remember if estrogen is kept low progesterone in usually not a concern....

[Knight1811]

I just got done reading in the educational section and now I am even more confused then when I started reading.

TO prevent gyno from deca (for example, I believe all 19nors do though) one would have to prevent buildup of progesterone and prolactin right? Prolactin can effect the mammary gland and cause gyno corect? Progesterone effects us how..........??

Can someone elaborate on teh conversions and effects of progesterone and prolactin please? I am getting confused as I research the two.

Skull,

Allow me to parrot some information:

Cabregoline or Bromocriptine will reduce BOTH prolactin and progesterone related effects.

Regarding Letrozole , the problem with progesterone is that it amplifies the effects of estrogen, hence you will want to use letro to greatly minimize the estrogen level; therefore lessening progesterone's amplification on estrogen. Anthony Roberts has hinted to the use of Letrozole for other anti-progesterone related effects but doesn't elaborate too much. Basically, I think it all ties back to progesterone amplifying the effects of estrogen. Therefore it's best to keep estrogen at a minimum, hence Letrozole.

Finally, T3 is can also be used to help reduce certain progesterone related sides.

Another obvious choice is RU-486.

That's all I can parrot for now. Hope it helps.

Knight1811

[guest589745]

Thanks.

[guest589745]

So Im still undecided as to what doses and what i should use exaclt...


letro/caber?

Just caber?

Caber/ldex?



I think Ill just go with .25mg letro/caber (what dose?)/ 100mg B6

???

[shortie]

Thanks swifto.

SO for this cycle:
1-12 750 cyp
1-10 450 deca
1-4(6) 40mg Dbol Run that shiznit 6
8-14 40mg var

What would you suggest ancillery wise?

Me thinks you put too much thought into it skull, pick an AI, Adex/Letro/Aromasin , begin using a mild dose 2 tweeks before cycle and you won't have any probs bro-B6 100mg ed if you want and you're good to go.

[guest589745]

Yea lets hope so. Im just really afradi of gyno, thats my only fear rom cycling really.

Me thank shortie. lol.

[shortie]

Have you shown to be gyno prone in the past? If not I think you've got no worries Skull, those are really pretty mild doses, so unless you are very suceptible to gyno you're good to go.

[BajanBastard]

Not this question again.

[themilkman_95901]

.25 two .50 of the letro ed. .

[guest589745]

Not this question again.

Hey! I gotta be careful sucka, you know how it is.

[guest589745]

Have you shown to be gyno prone in the past? If not I think you've got no worries Skull, those are really pretty mild doses, so unless you are very suceptible to gyno you're good to go.

Yea I have never had symptoms (knock on wood) but I dont wanna have it start either.

[Maetenloch]

Me thinks you put too much thought into it skull, pick an AI, Adex/Letro/Aromasin, begin using a mild dose 2 tweeks before cycle and you won't have any probs bro-B6 100mg ed if you want and you're good to go.

I agree - just use an AI if you need it. If you're really paranoid, you can order some cabergoline and have it on hand. But progesterone/prolactin issues are pretty rare.

If you need cabergoline, try http://www.buy-dostinex.com and ask for their price for Cabaser. It seems pricey, but remember that most guys only need 0.5mg a week, so 20 1mg tablets will last you most of a year.

[helium3]

Have you seen this skull???? Pretty interesting not sure if you saw it but here it is a anyways..

Progesterone induced gynecomastia ? Don't think so

I would like to cear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia.

Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren ? Deca ? Sorry but it just doesn't happen.

Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms.

There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect
With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though

Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well.

g


great post something ive been wondering about for a while.

thanks

[guest589745]

Thought I should bump this for that other thread.

[guest589745]

Bottom line, i will never run an above average dosed 19nor without an AI and cabergoline.

[fred9]

Here a go...picture always makes things much cleare

[Iron-man]

Skullsmasher, have you started this cycle yet? I see you started the thread on 6/30/06. If so, please update us as to what you went with, etc...
My next cycle will be almost exactly as yours, so I (as are others here) am interested as to what the outcome was/will be.

Thanks!!

[guest589745]

Had to cut it short due to an injury, deca is great though, so is Dbol .

[Iron-man]

Had to cut it short due to an injury, deca is great though, so is Dbol.

Thats what I heard. How did the deca & test compare to say test only. (I don't think much of test personally).
Do you think you'll resume with the same cycle, if so when? Mine won't be until about next Feb 07.

Thx

[guest589745]

from my expereicne, I will always:

use a 19nor (Maybe DHT's will be good to me too)
use minimum test
use fast acting esters
use injectable orals

Test alone sucks.

[Iron-man]

from my expereicne, I will always:

use a 19nor (Maybe DHT's will be good to me too)
use minimum test
use fast acting esters
use injectable orals

Test alone sucks.

Cool!!!! Looking forward to adding something to test next cycle.

Thx for your help!

[jokerswild]

Skull , Lilopristone and onapristone and RU-486 are progesterone blockers... Just to futher answer your question on what can prevent progesterone......

Am I correct to say Bromocriptine and Cabergoline along with B6 are know to be the classics for blocking the neg. sides of nipple growth and lactation symptoms? I've heard of the abortion pill you listed but the other two, can you please expand on that?

Thanks!

[MrMe]

Hey skull just wondering what you took to prevent gyno and what dose? Myself, i was thinking of taking b6-100mg/ed and letro 0.25mg/day

[guest589745]

Hey skull just wondering what you took to prevent gyno and what dose? Myself, i was thinking of taking b6-100mg/ed and letro 0.25mg/day

I would keep the letro on hand and use .5mg adex ED on cycle, just abou tany cycle as long as the doses arent rediculous. You have to learn what you like best kinda (nolva/adex/letro) and only use whats necessary. If estrogen is too low, gains could be lessened as wel, remember, a little bit is goodl.

I have also seen studies that show how b6 can really negatively effect your response to steroids , or their effects I should say. Look up "B6 to use or not" in here, or something like that.

[GoldieTheMack]

Thanks swifto.

SO for this cycle:
1-12 750 cyp
1-10 450 deca
1-4(6) 40mg Dbol
8-14 40mg var

What would you suggest ancillery wise?

How would one combat the same problems if the cycle was Tren based? Say...
1-10 Tren 50-75mgs ED
1-12 Test E 200mgs EW
1-4(6) 40mg Dbol
8-14 60mg var

Gold