Gear for strength and cut

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 04:13 PM

First off here are my stats,
age:23
height:6'2"
weight:225lbs
bf:11%
cycle exp:first cycle
years training:1 legitimate year, off and on since highschool
I have done a couple cycles of clen two weeks on two off. as well as a clen, T3, winni stack. I want to get down to 5%bodyfat in the next eight months. my diet is as clean as it could possibly be. i do three protein/fat meals a day and three protein/carb meals a day. My training is also in check. after hours and hours and days of research i am almost ready for a cycle. i just have a few more questions about the type of gear best for my goals. I want extremly low body fat with maximum strength. I dont want to get any bigger. just harder, stronger, leaner, and more cut. Would this be an ideal cycle for me? this is what i have so far based on my research. serious critiques please fellas. also, i know cyp or enan is best for a first cycle. but i am not worried about poking myself EOD and i know prop is best for cut.

wk1-10 test prop 500mg
Letro on hand in case of gyno or bloat
pct consists of nolva and clomid.
now my questions... is it ok to do prop EOD for ten wks for a first cycle? Would it be sufficient or should i stack it with decca, tren , or something like that?

**SMAN12b** · 07-13-2006, 05:27 PM

Slow down cowboy!! With only ONE year of training solid, I would say you need to concentrate more on that for another year or two before considering AAS, but since you wont' listen to that, Actually Prop is best shot ED, but you can get away with EOD.
I think you need to look at that diet of yours first. Not the best approach in my opinion, BUT there is a Diet forum for that, not here.
Are you planning on competing? 5% is almost competition percent!!

Your bodyfat is going to be dependant mostly on your diet NOT the AAS you choose. AAS only helps an already strict diet.

I would not stack anything for the first cycle. But JMHO

WELCOME TO AR

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 05:52 PM

I appreciate the advice, If i do go throught with it my question is this.
If i continue with my cutting diet and workout regimen as it is. will i still gain 15 pounds of muscle or is it possible to stay around the same weight while on a prop cycle and just cut up???

**SMAN12b** · 07-13-2006, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by RUBADUCK

I appreciate the advice, If i do go throught with it my question is this.
If i continue with my cutting diet and workout regimen as it is. will i still gain 15 pounds of muscle or is it possible to stay around the same weight while on a prop cycle and just cut up???

Very hard for me to give you an honest answer on that one. Too many factors involved. Calories, cardio, training, genetics, etc.....

Hard to gain mass and cut at the same time!! We usually recomend you pick one to do at a time. again, hard to give a straight yes or no here, sorry

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

Very hard for me to give you an honest answer on that one. Too many factors involved. Calories, cardio, training, genetics, etc.....

Hard to gain mass and cut at the same time!! We usually recomend you pick one to do at a time. again, hard to give a straight yes or no here, sorry

Yeah sman thats what i am saying. given the fact that i am keeping my cutting cycle the same... my current calorie intake, cardio, training program all revolve around a cutting cycle. so will adding test prop just intensify those aspects or will i start to bulk up. my goal is not to bulk. I am just wondering if gaining weight is inevitable on AAS or can i run a cutting cycle and actually just get more ripped and lean and strong with out the side of weight gain???

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 06:24 PM

anyone of you anabolic members viewing this have some advice? much appreciated.

**SMAN12b** · 07-13-2006, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by RUBADUCK

anyone of you anabolic members viewing this have some advice? much appreciated.

I didn't want to be the only one chiming in here. I think with the proper diet, you will get stronger and ripped with just using Prop.

Good luck, and BUMP for others expertise!!

**james21** · 07-13-2006, 06:32 PM

Maybe a Prop/winny, that would be nice. I get INSANE strength from winny.

**SMAN12b** · 07-13-2006, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by james21

Maybe a Prop/winny, that would be nice. I get INSANE strength from winny.

Well, this is his FIRST cycle, so it would be best to stick with ONE compound to see how his body will react.

I do agree however winny would be a good addition to a cutting cycle with proper DIET and training

**james21** · 07-13-2006, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

Well, this is his FIRST cycle, so it would be best to stick with ONE compound to see how his body will react.

I do agree however winny would be a good addition to a cutting cycle with proper DIET and training

i thought it was his second for some reason. The boards so big you get lost in it haha. And yeah I agree if he wants ED injects go prop. I hate anavar but it also sounds like a good first compound for what he wants.

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 06:46 PM

Hey SMAN that answers my questions completely. I dont think i was asking it right but you are very knowlegable. as for james, it is my first cycle so i think i should just stick to one compound. after all my research i can tell you that much i do know for fact. anavar only or are you talking a cycle it with the prop? cause i thought anavar should be stacked with a test just like everything else.

**james21** · 07-13-2006, 06:55 PM

Many people run var alone, some love it, i hate it. So it just depends

**Hellmaskbanned** · 07-13-2006, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by james21

Maybe a Prop/winny, that would be nice. I get INSANE strength from winny.

BINGO! WEEEE have a WINNER! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 08:13 PM

Right on fellas. i appreciate all the help. so what is better??? anavar alone? or prop alone?

**SMAN12b** · 07-13-2006, 08:16 PM

prop

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 08:52 PM

Noted. thanks for all of your help. well appreciated.

**YZFR1Tim** · 07-13-2006, 09:02 PM

The only thing I would make sure and do is to watch your water retention. Since you don't want to necesarily get any bigger, i would bump your nolvadex up and take it during your cycle as well as pct. Also, diet will be everything. If you diet correctly and watch your calorie intake you should be fine. I have never done your stack so I can't say from experience, but I do know that diet is the key, you can't gain tons of fat if you are not intaking an insane amount of calories.

**dogfight** · 07-13-2006, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

Very hard for me to give you an honest answer on that one. Too many factors involved. Calories, cardio, training, genetics, etc.....

Hard to gain mass and cut at the same time!! We usually recomend you pick one to do at a time. again, hard to give a straight yes or no here, sorry

he is right there are a lot of factors that are involved but genetics is a big one if your diet an trainning are consistant! if this is your first cycle its hard to say, you deffinately want to see how you react to each compound. but imho id give you two options; one, run test-p an anavar (instead of test-p an winny... i like this stack but winny is bad for connective tissue an var strengthens them!) an just watch your calories if you gain to much weight cut calories. adding a few pounds of quality musclemass will definately help shed fat. but if you cant have that just add more cardio. with the var adding mad strength the test has an anti wasting proporty to prevent muscle lose while dieting thats why compounds like test an deca ect. are used to treat aniemia ( i cant spell). two; now this is up to you but you can also run var an proviron this is not a cycle its more of a bridge between cycles for those who cruz. the strength will come with the var here as well and the proviron will add an androgen content to the mix witch is not strong enough on its own to build but will creat an environment witch makes it easier to burn fat. how long you run this for is up to you bro! but thats mho
good luck
DogFight

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 09:06 PM

thanks for the advice. however, i have some letro in case of bloating as stated earlier. a friend of mine used nolva for his first three weeks then had to get some letro because it wasnt working for the bloat. nolva is good for other things just not for bloat. everyone is diff though so thanks for your advice.

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by dogfight

he is right there are a lot of factors that are involved but genetics is a big one if your diet an trainning are consistant! if this is your first cycle its hard to say, you deffinately want to see how you react to each compound. but imho id give you two options; one, run test-p an anavar (instead of test-p an winny... i like this stack but winny is bad for connective tissue an var strengthens them!) an just watch your calories if you gain to much weight cut calories. adding a few pounds of quality musclemass will definately help shed fat. but if you cant have that just add more cardio. with the var adding mad strength the test has an anti wasting proporty to prevent muscle lose while dieting thats why compounds like test an deca ect. are used to treat aniemia ( i cant spell). two; now this is up to you but you can also run var an proviron this is not a cycle its more of a bridge between cycles for those who cruz. the strength will come with the var here as well and the proviron will add an androgen content to the mix witch is not strong enough on its own to build but will creat an environment witch makes it easier to burn fat. how long you run this for is up to you bro! but thats mho
good luck
DogFight

Thanks. that makes sense about the proviron and anavar. however i am looking for one compound because i need to see how i react to it. and you are talking about two options but they both involve stacking compounds. I think prop 500mg shot EOD sounds good to me for ten weeks unless someone objects with this conclusion. just curious, if i were to throw in some var, how much and how would i go about stacking. would i run it along with the test for all ten weeks or for the first four like dbol or for the last four like winni??? just curious.

**dogfight** · 07-13-2006, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by RUBADUCK

Thanks. that makes sense about the proviron and anavar. however i am looking for one compound because i need to see how i react to it. and you are talking about two options but they both involve stacking compounds. I think prop 500mg shot EOD sounds good to me for ten weeks unless someone objects with this conclusion. just curious, if i were to throw in some var, how much and how would i go about stacking. would i run it along with the test for all ten weeks or for the first four like dbol or for the last four like winni??? just curious.

thats cool an i understand about the one compound. as far as the var goes id run it for 8wks var is very mild on your liver an since its your first time run about 40 mgs/day

**RUBADUCK** · 07-13-2006, 09:28 PM

Cool thanks dogfight. why only 40mg/day if you dont mind me asking. i heard it was good to go at least fifty. and i already weigh 225. not sure if weight has much bearing on how it effects you but only 40? and start it at the same time as the prop. or run it the last eight weeks? or run it till i start my pct? anyone???

**dogfight** · 07-13-2006, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by RUBADUCK

Cool thanks dogfight. why only 40mg/day if you dont mind me asking. i heard it was good to go at least fifty. and i already weigh 225. not sure if weight has much bearing on how it effects you but only 40? and start it at the same time as the prop. or run it the last eight weeks? or run it till i start my pct? anyone???

some people use 40 the first time then need up the dose each cylce to get the same results i think its all in there head. but you can run up to 80mgs/day but i think 40 to 60 will do you fine. how long are you gonna run this cylce if its 8 to 10 wks run the var from the beginning if you gonna go 12 or more start the var after the results from the test level out an stop about a wk or 2 before you start pct. but dont just take my word cuz everone has there own opinions an you may like another scheduel better