short vs. long cycles

[axiomatic6]

hi, i was hoping somoene could explain the pros and cons of each. i always thought longer was the way to go, and is all i have ever done. now i am reading about poeple running shirt cycles, what is the differnce in gains?

[shortie]

The key benefit to the short cycle is the short recovery time. You will not make the same gains in 4-6 weeks that you could have in 12, but if you recover within a few weeks you will retain a greater degree of what you have gained than if you need 6-8 weeks to fully recover from a long duration cycle. It is kind of along the lines of gain 4 lbs, keep three, wait 4-6 weeks and cycle again as compared to gaining 20 lbs keep 10 wait 16 weeks and cycle again.

[Bigmax]

good explanation shortie...also short cycles require higher doses of the compounds being used..there for i would recommend more experienced users do them.

[vitor]

Ive done both, here are some of the advantages/disadvantages in my mind:

Short cycles= faster recovery, Easier to keep gains, less stress on your endocrine system and body in general, can cycle more often, less time to make gains.

Long cycles= slower recovery, less ability to keep gains, more sideeffects, have more time to create gains, need alot more time-off between cycles.

[AleX-69]

Couldn't agree more here, vitor. I have run both and will only run short ones in the future.

Another pro of short ones is that you always have a cycle right in front of you, you can look forward to.. no extended down times like 20+ weeks..

[vitor]

Couldn't agree more here, vitor. I have run both and will only run short ones in the future.

Another pro of short ones is that you always have a cycle right in front of you, you can look forward to.. no extended down times like 20+ weeks..

Exactly.

And with the proper prime(diet)before you can basically make the same gains in a short one as in a long one. The only way to sustain alot more muscle mass than your body are capable of achieving natrually(exept for cruising), is to cycle often, come off, and recover quikly before preparing for the next one.

20 weeks on= 20 weeks off+PCT, Thats like 1 cycle a year!

[Morpheaus]

this is a great post! any idea's what good 6 week cycle would be then for mass and keeping it?

[Swifto]

Ive done both, here are some of the advantages/disadvantages in my mind:

Short cycles= faster recovery, Easier to keep gains, less stress on your endocrine system and body in general, can cycle more often, less time to make gains.

Long cycles= slower recovery, less ability to keep gains, more sideeffects, have more time to create gains, need alot more time-off between cycles.

Not sure what you mean here.

If you take a time peroid of say, 12 weeks. A long 12 weeked cycle will mean your blood levels fluctuate, but begin to stabilize eventually. When the androgens used kick in, testosterone is fully surpressed, etc..

So then take the same 12 weeks. And do a short 4 weeks cycle. Your hormones are fluctuating again, then PCT starts, hormones are in more of a mess. Then...You go "on" again in the same 12 weeks peroid. Abiding by the Time Off = Time On + PCT.

Hormones in the longer 12 weeks cycle seem to be less up and down than the shorter cycle and 12 weeks peroid.

Catch my drift...

[Swifto]

This short cycle approach is really something I think I'm going to try next. 4-6 weeks of a short estered compound(s). Recover, then cycle again and so on....

[Morpheaus]

i think what he's trying to say, is from a short cycle it's easier to get back to normal hormone level's, 6 week's on, then 6 week's to get back to normal,
12 week's + your natural hormone level's are nearly completely shut down?

[vitor]

Swifto-I dont catch your drift bro...
ok, I understand what you are saying, and it might look that way on paper.( But I have tried both types of cycling) And I was refering more to sideeffects like liver-values, BP, bloating, lethargy. 4-weeks is little time to expirience any kind of sides, and recovery is so fast afterwords. (I even increased my strenght on a few exercises after coming off, probaly b/c natty test comes back so rapidly. That has never happen with me on a long run.)

But for people who are acne-prone I could see that this type of cycling could be a little unpleasent, b/c like you said Hormones will fluctate more. Personally, I didnt get any sides, though.

[Swifto]

Swifto-I dont catch your drift bro...
ok, I understand what you are saying, and it might look that way on paper.( But I have tried both types of cycling) And I was refering more to sideeffects like liver-values, BP, bloating, lethargy. 4-weeks is little time to expirience any kind of sides, and recovery is so fast afterwords. (I even increased my strenght on a few exercises after coming off, probaly b/c natty test comes back so rapidly. That has never happen with me on a long run.)

But for people who are acne-prone I could see that this type of cycling could be a little unpleasent, b/c like you said Hormones will fluctate more. Personally, I didnt get any sides, though.

This is excatly why I said, what I said above. Acne.

I have terrible acne on my chest and now scars on my back. Even though this type of cycling really looks good, when compared to long 12/14/24 week long cycles. I can see the acne prone sufferring greatly. Just as you said. I really do want to try this type of cycling, and will, once this acne is sorted. You'll probably have a PM about it soon, also marcus will!

[rock75]

all very good pts and I definitly agree that the key for me wanting to do them would be faster recovery due to less time of suppression, which means I can get to my next faster and most users, myself included stop experiencing gains come wk 6-8, thinking they need more AS to get more gains, when in fact you receptors are saturated and will only take so much, the rest gets waisted - why not have them short, save the gear, come off keep 90% of your gains and get back on in 1.5months. So, you can reasonably due 4 cycles a year (1 per quarter) gains 5-10lbs each and within a year POSSIBLY have a net gain from 20-40lbs (depending on ones diet and training etc) but you get my idea.

[macktownmac]

I've only done Test only , Test + Tren , and Trest + Tren + Winny,
personally the majority of my gains happen by about week 6-8, things taper off after that. 8 weeks on tren is good, plus 2 weeks after i keep the prop going to help with my test levels. So 10 weeks total.

I want to experiment with 6 weeks on Tren and 8 weeks on Test, ED shots start to hurt after a while

[AleX-69]

well-a-lot-of-steroid -induced-sides-manifest-themselves-after-a-certain-time-period.-this-is-the-greatest-advantage-of-short-cycles-especially-moderate-dosed-ones.If-you-think-about-it-most-guys-get-problems-with-hairloss-highBP-shitty-lipid-panel,acne-when?---Right-late-i-cycle.With-Shorter-cycles-one-can-limit-all-those-sides-to-a-certain-extend-while-making-good-gains-nonetheless.-The-faster-recovery-is-another-plus-which-was-already-mentioned.I-for-myself-after-running-several-short-cycles-with-additonal-blood-work-I-can-safely-say-that-this-is-the-best-way-of-jucing-for-me.-i-literaly-get-almost-NO-sides-at-all-while-reaping-the-full-benefits.The-only-thing-which-cant-be-done-with-short-cycles-is-running-them-back-to-back-year-round-IMO-due-to-supression-issues.-geez-this-typing-sucks-i'll-stop-here-maybe-i-come-back-later:-)AleX

[juiceboxxx]

im-not-gonna-give-advice-like-this

its-gonna-take-1-fukin-year

lool

[Morpheaus]

rock, yeah agree with that, about 8 week's everything slow's down not many gain's, i normally hit the winnie after that for a couple of week's then pct.

[yom]

short cycles would be better as it sucks coming off for a long time . and having short cycles id find you can train at your peak for the first 4 weeks and after that the body isnt designed to train at high intenisty for long periods of time scientifically . . so come off for 4 weeks and prepare your body and mind to push your body to the next level when you do your next 4 weeks cyles

[Morpheaus]

i've already set it all up, got the juice in, all system's are go for next week, 6/8 week's on, then the same off.

[rock75]

i've already set it all up, got the juice in, all system's are go for next week, 6/8 week's on, then the same off.

keep a log and let us know how you get on.

[Duke of Earl]

i've got into doing really short cycles - I've done a couple of 4-8 weekers and my last 2 cycles have been 2.5 weekers something like

1 prop 300mg
1-14 prop 100mg ED
1-16 tbol 50mg & var 40mg ED
17 PCT

a kind of in & out mission - these articles were my inspiration ( not sure of both authors )

Written by Realgains

As many of you already know I have had decent success with short cycles. I, along with some of my friends and clients, have had good results with cycles as short as 14 days long.

I no longer do cycles longer than 4-6 weeks as I am simply sick of the sides that build up after 4-6 weeks and I no longer feel comfortable walking around with a shitty lipid profile for months on end.


WHAT QUALIFIES AS SHORT

"In my book" any cycle 6 weeks or less is a short cycle. Personally I now think that 4 weekers give the best gains to sides ratio.

You can do 2 weeks "on" 2-4 weeks "off"
You can do 4 weeks on and 4-6 weeks off
Or you can do 6 weeks on with 6-8 weeks off.
4 weeks on and 4 weeks off, year round, gives excellent results and you are only "on" half the year.

WHY DO THEM

#1.
If you are one of those bro's that does longer cycles, of say 10-12 weeks or more, and then wisely takes an equal amount of time off, and you are tired of loosing so much of your gains post cycle due to the length of the time off...the yoyo affect....then why not try doing shorter cycles with their corresponding shorter off times...... obviously you don't gain as much with a short cycle but then again you don't loose as much post cycle either due to the shorter off time.

Now... over say a year of doing 4 on 4-6 off you are gong to get very similar results as that seen from doing longer cycles of say 12 "on" 12-14 off but with less yo-yo affect and less sides. In fact most of my clients that do 4-6 week cycles tell me that they are actually getting better gains over a years use.

#2.
Do them to have less of a negative impact on ones lipid profile and to have less total time per year with a poor lipid profile.

Some of you may not know that androgens, taken at even newbie bodybuilding doses, alter everyones lipid profile. Everyone sees their hdl(good cholesterol) take a huge "nosedive" and most also see their ldl(bad cholesterol) go up to some degree but not to the same degree that hdl decreases. Generally hdl decreases 40-70% in as little as 2 weeks and ldl increases an average of 36% in 4 weeks. In my experience this reduction in hdl puts all bro's hdl WELL below the pathological minimum of 35. My ldl does not elevate above the pathological level of 160 but others see ldl's well above 160.
Lipid levels typically normalize within 3-10 weeks after discontinuation.
( details taken from article in Medscape)

Here are my "numbers" from the last long cycle of test 750mg/week and Tren 75mg/day. A powerful stack but not a huge dose of gear. It's been as bad with less powerful gear and lower doses. Blood work done after week 7.

Total cholesterol 181...not bad.
ldl 160...not very good
hdl 11.6! CRAPPY big time
Cholesterol to hdl ratio 15.7 to 1...ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE! This is when my doc and I had a COW at the same time.
Triglycerides 50...good.

Here is my "baseline" without gear

Chol 152...great
ldl 106...great
hdl 45-48...good
tri 50..good
chol to hdl ratio....3.16 to 1.....good

.As far as I and my endochrinologist are concerned this lipid altering side of gear use is the single worst side of steroid use .
In as little as a week hdl decreases. Personally my brother-in-law and I really see a huge decrease after about 3 weeks "on' cycle. The last time I did a long cycle my total cholesterol to hdl ratio plummeted to 15 to 1!...My doc had a cow and so did I!!

According to current medical thought ones total cholesterol to hdl ratio is the single greatest LIPID indicator for assessing ones chances of developing heart disease. Men with low total cholesterols but with crappy hdl have gone on to develope heart disease WITHOUT ANY OTHER RISK FACTORS such as smoking, or diabetes.

Ideally you want an hdl of at least 40 and a ratio of 3.5 to 1 or better.

My mentor, the late great MIKE MENTZER died of heart disease at age 50 and I know for a fact that ARNOLD had more than valve surgery(I am an operating room nurse as well as a trainer)


#3.
Do them to decrease liver stress.
Generally long cycles with non 17aa roids are not that hard on the liver but sometimes one can get into trouble. The short cycle allows for less total stress on the liver and the frequent "off" times allows the liver to regenerate very well.
Generally a healthy liver can take pretty big "hits" for short periods of time without any problem ...it is long term stress that cause liver damage(as seen with elevated GGT enzyme levels)

#4.
Do them if you want to "tone down" your use of steroids .

#5.
Do them if you do NOT want to use HCG during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy. HPTA shut down will be complete in as little as a week "on" but testicualr atrophy is minimal due to the short length of this shut down. This then allows for better HPTA recovery post cycle.
It is small testes that makes HPTA recovery slow because GnRH from the hypothalamus and LH from the pituitary normally rebound pretty rapidly.
* There will be some testicular shrinkage in any cycle so if you do 4 "on" 4 "off" for several cycles in a row then it would be a good idea to use hcg at 500iu's every 3rd day while "on" to prevent testicular atrophy...the 4 weeks "off" may not be enough time to allow for complete testicular recovery and over the span of several cycles this may impact your HPTA recovery.

You certainly can use hcg while on any short cycle to prevent any testicular shrinkage if you like but it really isn't necessary.

#6.
Do them if you do not want to see much in the way of water retention and do not want to use an estrogen inhibitor or an ace inhibitor(diuretic)


#7.
Do them if you get high blood pressure and do not wish to use the above mentioned ancillaries.

#8. Do them if you are sick of androgenic sides such as ance, prostate hypertrophy and hair loss(if prone to hair loss) etc etc.
Androgen sides come on for two reason...dose used and especially length of time "on". I do not get acne until after 4 weeks on and then I get hammered.....and I hate it.

#9.
Do them if you are tired of walking around with high estrogen levels for months on end and do not wish to or cannot afford to use an estrogen inhibitor. High estrogen levels are NOT good for the prostate at all!

You certainly can use estrogen inhibitors if you like if you want to keep estrogen levels down and experience very little water retention.


WHY NOT TO DO THEM

Obviously if you compete at a high level then short cycles are probably not the best for you, BUT I think they are the best way to use steroids for the vast majority of bro's.
Top competitors need to be "on" either all the time or most of the time....thats unfortunate but usually necessary in order to get freaky huge which is now needed to win big.


WHAT TO EXPECT

If one is not yet at ones natural maximum level of muscular developement then very good gains can be seen of up to 15 pounds and 10 pounds kept after a 4 weeker...as long as you train correctly as a natural post cycle.

If one is off gear and has dropped to ones natural max then a short cycle can add up to 10 pounds. If you take no more than 6 weeks off after each four weeker you will not loose much...then in each successive cycle you can still gain but the gains will be smaller the further you get from your natural max.

Those that are off cycle and have not yet shrunk down to their natural max can still gain well with successive short cycles but don't expect to win at the national level.

One of the things I like about short cycles is the short time "off" between cycles.......muscular atrophy is minimal during the off time and you are allowing for frequent bodily normalization after minimal time "on". LESS SIDES IN GENERAL, LESS TIME WITH A SHITTY LIPID PROFILE and LESS MUSCLE LOSS POST CYCLE.

NOTE: You cannot get "freaky big" in this way...that takes very big doses and spending most of the year, for years on end, on steroids as well as GH and slin, and that my freinds is simply not a good idea unless you plan to make your living as a bodybuilder.

Getting pretty darn big in small steps is a safer way to use gear IMHO...and it messes less with one head too. Some guys really get depressed during "off" times of 12 or more weeks waiting to start their next cycle.


GEAR CHOICE and RATIONAL

The idea behind short cycles is to "get in" quick, hit the androgen receptors hard, get some gains, and then get the hell out as fast as possible so as to minimize sides. So with this in mind one should only use orals and rapid acting/clearing injectables. The limited time "on' simply doesn't justify the use of the "slower" esterfied injectables like deca etc. Also, these same roids take too long to clear the system and that too goes against the philosophy of short cycles.

The gear choosen should be powerful for best results and doses need to be decent as well in order to get the most from the short time on.
You can use mild gear like anavar but your results will be reduced.

BEST Gear

d-bol
test prop Tren anadrol

BEST stacks.

Personally I think d-bol/tren cannot be beat. There is only one roid that is better than testosterone , in the short run, IMHO and that is d-bol...too bad it's 17aa.

Test prop/tren
Test prop/tren/winny
Test prop/anadrol
Test prop/d-bol


STACKS AND DOSE EXAMPLES

I like Tren and I like d-bol and especially for a shorty. YES NEWBIE you can use these strong androgens and NO Tren is not hard on the kidneys(myth).

Some guys think I am nuts for recommending Tren for a first cycle and they say it is too harsh.... but most of the same bro's will recommend a long cycle of test/d-bol for a newbie and I can assure you that a long cycle of test/d-bol is going to give you more sides than a shorty with Tren and d-bol. Bro's test is just as "harsh" as Tren and it causes a good deal of water retention, with resultant increase in BP(bad in some bro's) unless you use an estrogen inhibitor....and shit test/d-bol stacks are WAY "harsher" than Tren.

The only issue with Tren is the frequent injecting required.....but I know some of you newbies have been researching for a long time and are fine with the idea of frequent injections(they aren't that bad!)


Novice... TREN/D-BOL.... Tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks and d-bol 30mg/day in 4 divided doses per day(one right before bed) for 4 weeks.
Two days after last Tren do Clomid at 200-300mg on day one in divided doses and then 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg a day for 3 more weeks. OR...Nolva at 80mg on day one in divided doses followed by 40mg/day for a week and then 20mg/day for 3 more weeks.
Have nolva or Clomid on hand for gyno protection.

More advanced...200 of Tren on day one as a front load to get Tren levels up pronto and then 75mg/day for 4 weeks. D-bol 50mg/day in 4 divided doses for 4 weeks. SERMS as above

Novice...TEST PROP/TREN

Test prop 75mg/day for 4 weeks and Tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks. Serms as above. nolva on hand.

more advanced.....Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100-200mg/day for 4 weeks. Tren 75mg/day. An estrogen inhibitor might be needed.

MEGA STACK... ADVANCED
Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100mg /day for 4 weeks, d-bol 50mg/day and Tren 75mg/day......LOOK THE HELL OUT! Have the nolva on the tip of your tongue he he he ...arimidex at 1-1.5mg/day would be wise even for the short 4 week period.

SINGLE STEROIDS

D-bol really is an unreal roid and as I said it is even better than test in the short run IMHO.
One can get very nice results from d-bol alone at 50mg/day for 4-6 weeks. Don't take it for longer than 6 weeks though as it is a 17aa roid and as such is somewhat hard on the liver.
D-bol for 6 weeks at a time was a favorite cycle length in the old days and produced excellent gains.

Test prop can be run all by itself at 75-200mg/day with great results too.



OKAY.....BUT YOU SAY YOU ONLY HAVE SUST, EQ, CYP etc

Long chain esterfied roids and tests are not the best choice for the shorty, as explained above, but they can work pretty well IF you do pretty large front loads. FRONT LOADS simply help to get blood hormone levels up more quickly.

ie: Intermediate user doing test cyp ...do a FRONT LOAD of at least 800mg on day one...then 2 days latter do 400mg and then every 4h day do another 400.
400 every 4th day is equal to 700mg per week.

Run the cyp for 4-6 weeks and you'll get some decent gains from it.

* Best to use Tren with this cycle....or d-bol (1 mg of arimidex/day if using d-bol and test)

* After the last shot of cyp you are going to have to wait for a couple weeks for androgen levels to drop before you start PCT and this is akin to lengthening the cycle.



BLOOD LIPIDS

You might want to consider taking the worlds best hdl improver while "on" cycle...NIACIN!
Nothing even comes close to niacins hdl incresing powers. Personally it has not helped my hdl while "on' nor has it helped my brother-in-laws, but you might see some level of improvement(don't expect a great improvement though since androgens do such a great job of messing with hepatic lipaze)

Nicain comes in three forms...regular, extended release(Niaspan) and non flush niacin. Niaspan is the best and works well at 1500mg/day taken once daily. Regular niacin works well at 600-1000mg three times a day but it gives a nasty ichy flush for a while after taking each pill.
Non flush works fairly well at 2-3 grams a day but not as good as the others IMHO.


Use nicain while "off" for sure as it will rapidly improve your shitty hdl level.
NOTE*** niacin can be hard on the liver so never use it with acutane which is hard on the liver. You really should have liver panels done if you use niacin for more than 6 weeks and be followed by a doctor(Swale would be good) especially if you are on steroids as well.

ENTER POLICOSANOL

DrVeejay11(real doctor) introduced me to another great lipid protector/improver and it too raises hdl BUT BONUS...it lowers ldl too.. and it's not liver toxic at all so you could use this stuff all the time with no worries.
Do a search at www.medscape.com for abstracts on POLICOSANOL.


I recommed that all be followed by a doctor while on steroids or at the very least educate yourself about the sides of steroid use and how to avoid the pitfalls by following yourself with blood work at labs that do not require a docs script(especially liver panels... and psa for us older guys) And guys at a minimum also watch your blood pressure while on gear at your local drug store monitoring station....keep the BP under 140 over 90 if you can especailly if you are "on" for months on end.

__________________________________________________ ______________________________________

I have posted on two week cycles before but I thought I should touch on the issue once again especially for the paranoid newbie.??Two weekers are a good start for the newbie and good for those that are tired of all the sides and especially a shitty lipid profile. They are also good for the very serious lifter that just want to play it as safe as possible.??Doing two week cycles with 4 week off year round will give similar results to doing 3 eight week cycles per year but will be much safer all round.???The worst side of AAS use BY FAR with men is a shitty lipid profile and usually VERY SHITTY. Two week cycles minimize time with a crappy lipid profile and this is obviously a good thing for long term health reasons.??Secondly , long cycles can cause testosterone recovery problems in some and even if HCG is used during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy, although HCG certainly helps.?Recovery of natural test production after a two weeker is very rapid and thus gains made are kept for the most part.??Other nasty sides like bad acne and hair loss are minimized with two week cycles. In fact my budies and I never get any acne at all during a two weeker. Acne for most seems to come on after three weeks and can get very bad indeed.??During the usual 4 week off period gains continue! This is probably because natural test levels normally rebound to a somewhat higher than normal level for a few weeks( higher than your usual norm) Also other metabolic factors are still in the "primed state" from the steroid use.?When was the last time you continued to gain immediately after a long cycle!??One can do two weeks on and then only two weeks off for a long time and even year round but this will eventually result in Testicular atrophy so using 300-500 iu's of HCG per day during each cycle is a good idea. Two on two off with HCG during the time "on" is better than being on steroids all year long for sure and can give excellent results.??Better yet do two weeks on and then four weeks off. This can safely be done ALL YEAR without HCG.???HORMONE CHOICES, DOSAGE and other tips.??Choice of hormone is VERY important when constructing a two week cycle. You must only use rapid acting roids and test. If you use hormones like Deca, test cyp, Eq or Primo the cycle will not be two weeks long due to the long acting nature of the esters used. You are then defeating the whole purpose of a two week cycle.???If you are still not at your natural maximum weight then you can get very good results from moderate doses of steroids, although the two weeker requires a little more per day than you would use in an 8-10 weeker.?D-bol at 30mg per day in five divided doses and tren at 50-75 per day will do just fine and will often give a 10 pound muscle gain if you are not at your natural max weight.?Front load the tren at 150 mg on day one in order to get blood hormone levels up right away.......you can't be waiting for good hormone levels during a two weeker. PLEASE do not be afraid of the loading dose as it will not hurt you at all.?Stop the d-bol after day 14 and the tren after day 12. Then hit clomid just to be safe on day 15 at 300 mg in divided doses and then 50 per day for 3-4 weeks.??For those that are at their natural max weight, which is usually about 190 fairly lean pounds at 5'-9", more is needed. You guys should try d-bol at 50 per day in 5 divided doses and tren at 75 per day. test prop at 100 per day after a 300mg front load would be a good idea for many. You could also throw in some winny at 50 per day or test prop at 100 per day. If you use the prop be sure to front load on day one with 300mg. Stop the prop after day 11.??For those of you that are well above your natural max weight then very large doses are needed, as they are with long cycles. You should try d-bol at 50 per day, tren at 100 with a 150-200 front load, test prop at 125-150 per day with a 300 front load and perhaps even winstrol at 50 per day. If you want to leave anything out then leave out the winny. Then hit clomid as above.??I know of many very large men that have gained a solid 5 pounds of muscle from a two weeker using 100 of prop per day for 11 days after a 300 front load, d-bol 50 per day through day 14 and tren at 75-100 per day through day 12 after a 150 front load.??NOTE: WINSTROL DEPOT hangs around for about a week after the last shot so it is best to use oral winsol through day 14 or the IM winny only during the first week.??If you are not a competitive BBer then perhaps two weekers are all you really need. Obviously two weekers are not for the advanced competitor but how many out there really are. ??Best of luck and best of health!

[Duke of Earl]

sorry - that second one is a bit of a mindfu<k to read

[AleX-69]

the post by realgains on cuttingedge got me started back then also..

most of this and even more can be found in this thread:

Moderate Dose Short Cyles - Steroids for Health!

[rock75]

great read Duke, a friend of mine at Micks board was speaking of these and a member was actually doing them and putting on about 6lbs every other month, which he wasn't losing cause he was back on so quickly. I'm definitly gonna try this out and see what happens, it's just so hard once you start to say ok, i'm coming off in 14 days, lol. Like Will Farrel in Old School - "It's so good once it hits your lips"

[oswaldosalcedo]

This is excatly why I said, what I said above. Acne.

I have terrible acne on my chest and now scars on my back. Even though this type of cycling really looks good, when compared to long 12/14/24 week long cycles. I can see the acne prone sufferring greatly. Just as you said. I really do want to try this type of cycling, and will, once this acne is sorted. You'll probably have a PM about it soon, also marcus will!

i have seen acne from long and short cycles in acne prone people.

[bigpopparich]

if im going to do my winny for only 14 days should i hit it at 100mg a day rather then 50mg a day ...even though ive never tryed roids before i just got my 100 pack of 50mg oral winny tabs from GOLDEN TRIANGLE lab... what do you or anyone suggest?

[bigpopparich]

also sense im just staking winny for 2 weeks ..maybe 3 max ...what should i take if anything post cycle or before the cycle or even during the cycle for my liver / kidneyz or anything else.....

[Hellmaskbanned]

if im going to do my winny for only 14 days should i hit it at 100mg a day rather then 50mg a day ...even though ive never tryed roids before i just got my 100 pack of 50mg oral winny tabs from GOLDEN TRIANGLE lab... what do you or anyone suggest?

14 days of winstrol is a great way to give your hormones a good bitch slappin without any gains to show for it.

[BG]

i have seen acne from long and short cycles in acne prone people.

I agree, I dont believe it has to do with length. Im acne prone and I get it when blood levels change plain and simple. I dont know why more people dont run antibiotics if they get it so severely.

[BG]

if im going to do my winny for only 14 days should i hit it at 100mg a day rather then 50mg a day ...even though ive never tryed roids before i just got my 100 pack of 50mg oral winny tabs from GOLDEN TRIANGLE lab... what do you or anyone suggest?

You never tried roids , nor have you tried researching either.

[Swifto]

if im going to do my winny for only 14 days should i hit it at 100mg a day rather then 50mg a day ...even though ive never tryed roids before i just got my 100 pack of 50mg oral winny tabs from *OLDEN *RIANGL lab... what do you or anyone suggest?

You need o research a lot more....And...While your at it, read the Rules regarding naming UGL's in the open forum.

[Dilanger]

I'm going to my first short cycle in about four or five weeks. 8-12week cycles are to long as well as the recovery. If you guys run 4 weeks on 4 weeks off what kind of pct to you run?

[BigMaus]

A normal one.

[bigpopparich]

my bad ... so what the minimum i should run winny for and at what dosage???????? i have read in an out everythingi can find on just winny alone on this site but everything is usually stacked with something else and i just want to try winny alone and plus thats all i have .. oral version ..100 tablets 50mg each what should i do HELLMASK??????????? u seem to def know your shyti read your post on every topic and your by far the man!!! ...help a 22 yr old out whos new and just wants to get a nice lean mass gain and hit south beach with my buddy zack thomas "dolphin player" ...i would ask him but he would kill me for taking it ....email me or tell me exactly how to take it and ill get u a ball signed or a photo ..whatever u want i got eveything ...hes my brothers best freind

[bigpopparich]

and man hes a monster but he hates roids so if i aks him he will murder me and me and him r real tight so just help me my email is [email protected]

[Duke of Earl]

help a 22 yr old out whos new and just wants to get a nice lean mass gain and hit south beach

it sounds like you need to look at the long game - 'panic' use of AAS because you realise you're gonna hit the beach in a few weeeks but you've been eating big macs infront of the TV all year is an unrealistic & lazy approach which will simply not work - you need consistency & dedication to look good on the beach ( or amazing genetics ) -

this is a really misguided way to approach AAS & training in general - 2 weeks of winny will do pretty much fu<k all.....

you need a bit of forward planning - forget 2 weeks - aim to look great on the beach in a years time ( and better a year after that etc ....etc... )

GL

[marcus300]

In my experience over the years i would go with short cycles everytime, Ive tried many different ways to cycle and everytime i end up going back to short cycles weather they are short and heavy or just a standard dose everytime i prefer them over long cycles,

With long cycles they are great while you are on the cycle but its when you come off, the recovery is so hard and takes alot longer than normal, while you are trying to recover you get all the mental stuff what comes with it, you start to drop size cause the body cant recover and maintain the new gains even with a good diet the maintenance is very hard work and the recovery seems to go on and on forever,

Also your body builds up a tolerance to anything it takes so after a certain amount of weeks the gear is doing nothing but maintaining the gains because the body as got use to the gear and switching compounds or upping the dose seems the only way to seek further gains, the down side to long cycles is far greater than short cycle,

With short cycles you can recover far quicker and maintain the gains very quickly, the body seems to bounce back alot easier which in turn helps with all the mental stuff coming off and you don't seem to lose half as much as when you come of a long cycle, alot of people say you need weeks for the gear to do its job i would say rubbish to this if the right compounds are used and the correct things are in place beforehand like a good few weeks priming the body, then unbelievable gains are very capable and they start straight from the start of a course,

The prime is a very valuable tool to have when cycling and more so when you are doing a short cycle, if you hit the body with the right compounds at the right time the body will react and produce new muscle tissue gains and you will recover alot better with no major problems such as lack of sex drive and trying to maintain the gains,

Remember the body builds up a tolerance to everything it takes so more is needed to get the same kind of gains as before, why keep on a cycle when the gains have stopped?? many people experience good rapid gains in the first part of a cycle when the body is fresh this is when you need to take advantage of this window and dont go on long drawn out cycles which do nothing for building muscle tissue when the body as built up a tolerance,

[oswaldosalcedo]

I agree, I dont believe it has to do with length. Im acne prone and I get it when blood levels change plain and simple. I dont know why more people dont run antibiotics if they get it so severely.

i am acne prone too.
i began to use steroids 20 years ago.
I have used almost all of them.
.................... .................lol............

[marcus300]

i am acne prone too.
i began to use steroids 20 years ago.
I have used almost all of them.
.................... .................lol............

wonderfull