Testosterone Cyp ? Please

**Columbus** · 08-06-2006, 08:27 AM

I was posed this question, it's kind of dumb and moot so I understand if no one answers, but it would be greatly appreciated so I can relay.

Buddy in the gym has been diagnosed with a testosterone level that is very low. Not off the charts low, but low enough to warrant therapy if he so choses. He's prob. 35 years old, so I am assuming his metobolism is declining. He's always been very lean, abs in tact and quit skinny. Now he has expressed some great desieres to add some mass, serious mass, over the next few years and compete in the older divisions.

He asked me if his therapy of 100mg/week would allow him to stya relative lean on a high caloric diet, as long as he trains hard and eats clean!

Then he asked if he upped te odse b himself or didnt go on HRT and decided t just run a cycle of 300mg test and 400mg of eq then pct, would this allow him to become leaner than he already is. He gets down because every time he adds calories, he feels his midsection is the first to get covered up and he really isnt getting stronger. So I guess, my question is (and I know steroids are wonder drugs) would the addition of cyp allow him to stop worry so much about true fat gain in a highly caloric diet and actually make him leaner? Do put uise cyp to cut?

**MAXIMA5** · 08-06-2006, 08:32 AM

It is possible to stay lean with any test when proper diet is used.

Based on my limited knowledge of the situation, if his test levels are low, then 100mg isn;t going to do much but bring him closer to normal levels. If he wants mass, he will probably want to add more test.

Add proviron for water retention issues.
Hypothetically speaking,
If he's ready for a more complex cycle, Tbol is a good addition to test/EQ.

I am not condoning this, it is just a cycle I had good success with when trying to obtain the same goals.

**Columbus** · 08-06-2006, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by MAXIMA5

It is possible to stay lean with any test when proper diet is used.

Based on my limited knowledge of the situation, if his test levels are low, then 100mg isn;t going to do much but bring him closer to normal levels. If he wants mass, he will probably want to add more test.

Add proviron for water retention issues.
Hypothetically speaking,
If he's ready for a more complex cycle, Tbol is a good addition to test/EQ.

I am not condoning this, it is just a cycle I had good success with when trying to obtain the same goals.

Understood and I am not condoning it either trust me....but is it a fact that if he went with 250mg test and 400mg of eq for 12 weeks (maybe eq for 16) that he would become leaner thus retainer less body fat than if he went on the same diet with his levels being low right now??? I guess thats the question at hand

#1 USE NOTHING, STAY WITH LOW TEST LEVELS, EAT CLEAN 4,000 CALS TRAIN HARD 4X WEEK.........

OR

#2 A SMALL TEST DOSE, 250-300MG, 400EQ......SAME AS ABOVE - THIS WOULD ALLOW HIM TO STAY LEANER KEEP HIS ABS, ETC?

**MAXIMA5** · 08-06-2006, 08:56 AM

If running EQ, it is not a very strong compound. The lowest I ever ran it was 600 mg EW, but I was running 750 mg of test.

If he is planning on running test at 300 and EQ at over 400, I would definitely advise adding some proviron , should libido become an issue. I never had libido issues with EQ, but like I said, I was running a lot of test.

**Columbus** · 08-06-2006, 09:56 AM

how abut the calorie and fat question....

**gixxerboy1** · 08-06-2006, 12:11 PM

Probably yes. He would put more muscle on while on the higher gear. And more muscles burns more calories. So that would make him leaner.

**MAXIMA5** · 08-06-2006, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Columbus

how abut the calorie and fat question....

However many calories he was eating while working out regularly and staying lean before test, needs to be drasticaly increased to promote new muscle growth. Increase caloric intake even more if cardio is involved in his training.

Test won't put fat on, if that's what you're worried about.

It's a fine line to walk when eating enough to build muscle if you're trying to lose fat at the same time, rather than just maintain.

It can be done, but everything needs to be A+ and you really need to know your body.

**pdog80** · 08-06-2006, 05:00 PM

First of all, steroids are not a wonder drug. Your misconception about steroids needs to be fixed. Second, if your "buddy" wants to add mass, then he's gotta eat a "clean" high calorie diet.

**Columbus** · 08-06-2006, 06:56 PM

he can eat this way on or off high caloric and clean right? I think hes got 4200 clean cals a day...2 cheat meals a week...35-40 yr old...cardio 2x a week on weekends..

**Teabagger** · 08-06-2006, 07:07 PM

The reason his belly seems to attract fat when he increases calories is due to his estrogen/test level being flipped flooped most likely. As we age and test declines, other things occur as well...such as more estrogen, which is responsible for the fat tire around so many guys...So...balancing hormones is a multivariate approach...test, estrogen, etc...

He should start with 100mg of Test C every 5 to six days, bump his calories, and see what happens. He will have some water retention from the C and therefore needs to watch his blood pressure. Suggest he go to the Hormone Replacement Therapy forum on here and do some research...wealth of knowledge...and HRT is not the same as running cycles. Good luck.

**Columbus** · 08-07-2006, 11:19 AM

IF THE DIET IS CLEAN...........clean.....and he's training hard, test or no test....there should be fat gain!!

**pdog80** · 08-07-2006, 03:50 PM

There's always gonna be some fat gain when bulking up regardless of whether your on test or not. It just comes with the territory, unless your diet is absolutely spot on. Test does minimize fat gain though.

**Columbus** · 08-08-2006, 05:56 AM

DO u really think it minimizes fat gain? How about water retention? On a low dose, it'll keep you pretty ripped up on a high caloric CLEAN diet that is spot on? Esp. with some EQ?

**MAXIMA5** · 08-08-2006, 06:21 AM

Test with proper estrogen preventative should not cause significant fat gain. Especially at a low dose of test I personally wouldn't run nolvadex during the cycle unless I saw signs of aromatisation.