Bro had heart attack while on

[Pooks]

dont be cofused read your 1st post again..............

[MFT81]

cause it was edited manually, if you want to know it was the first two you listed,

[rodosman]

My friend is okay. But will never be the same again, i guess with every heart attack your heart doesn't work as good. The doc gave him an xray of his chest but his pectoral muscles were so big that it caused a shadow on the xray. He got a stent put in. His arteries were clear, passed a stress test with flying colors. I think he said they put a cathader in his heart, is this right i don't know.

It was just crazy cuz he was in his hospital bed calling me telling me to stop using aas cuz i'll be next. Just imagine a phone call like that.

[Booz]

dont be cofused read your 1st post again..............

[kcanes53]

Glad your bud is ok!!!! I wish the best for you guys......

[souljaman]

Sorry bout your bro man but damn that sounds pretty rough. Kinda scares me.

[ebjack]

My friend is okay. But will never be the same again, i guess with every heart attack your heart doesn't work as good. The doc gave him an xray of his chest but his pectoral muscles were so big that it caused a shadow on the xray. He got a stent put in. His arteries were clear, passed a stress test with flying colors. I think he said they put a cathader in his heart, is this right i don't know.

It was just crazy cuz he was in his hospital bed calling me telling me to stop using aas cuz i'll be next. Just imagine a phone call like that.

See if you can find out what exactly caused his heart attack (acutely).
I know not everybody here has medical knowledge, but a few things don't make sense. Stents are used for blocked cornary arteries (which can cause a MI) but it says his arteries were clear.
I understand that you might not get to talk to him for a while...just bump the thread when you do.

[Maximus_Pecs]

If his arteries were clear I'd really like to know what caused the Heart attack... This is very interesting as I have read medical papers stating testosterone cause dilation of coronary arteries. Here is link to one study although it was performed on older men with heart disease.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...ll/100/16/1690

Or was it a Heart arrhythmias.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hea...thmias/DS00290

I'm very interested as I've always wondered of the long term effects on the heart.

I've done 4 cycles myself and would do them for the rest of my life. I am considering HRT but this is something that is a bit of a concern to me.

I also notice some bros aren't here from back in 2003 when I was first here, wonder if they just moved on or are still cycling.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

Personally i dont think its a good idea to do cardio when on aas or GH,. Do it when off.
Even though heart cells cant really grow like skeletal cells, the less stimulus it gets to grow when on ASS, the better, IMO.

Also, maybe giving blood post cycle is a good idea. The fact that they increase blood volume and pressure may be enough to expand the heart when under stress.

sometimes an enlarged haert is not a bad thing though.

and yeah ppl need to get there lipids checked

[AnabolicBoy1981]

if his arteries were clean, why did they put in a stent?!

Somebody call John Edwards..yer bro may have a case!
im serious.

[Maximus_Pecs]

One thing to remember about an enlarged heart is that most endurance athletes have larger hearts and/or left ventricles than non athletic people. I'll try to dig up some medical papers on the web but anyone can google it. Lance Armstrong for one has a heart roughly 1 1/2 times the size of a "normal" person.

[Maximus_Pecs]

if his arteries were clean, why did they put in a stent?!

Somebody call John Edwards..yer bro may have a case!
im serious.

Thats what I want to know. Did one of the arteries collapse?

[Maximus_Pecs]

Doing a few searches an artery collapse could have been the cause and a stint would have been used to keep the arteries from collapsing

[djacosta]

The Cardiac Toxicity of Anabolic Steroids
Sullivan ML, Martinez CM, Gennis P, Gallagher EJ
Prog Cardiovasc Dis. 1998 Jul-Aug;41(1):1-15
Anabolic steroids are synthetic derivatives of testosterone that were developed as adjunct therapy for a variety of medical conditions. Today they are most commonly used to enhance athletic performance and muscular development. Both illicit and medically indicated anabolic steroid use have been temporally associated with many subsequent defects within each of the body systems. Testosterone is the preferred ligand of the human androgen receptor in the myocardium and directly modulates transcription, translation, and enzyme function. Consequent alterations of cellular pathology and organ physiology are similar to those seen with heart failure and cardiomyopathy. Hypertension, ventricular remodeling, myocardial ischemia, and sudden cardiac death have each been temporally and causally associated with anabolic steroid use in humans. These effects persist long after use has been discontinued and have significant impact on subsequent morbidity and mortality. The mechanisms of cardiac disease as a result of anabolic steroid use are discussed in this review.


My guess in his case is probably hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

I dont know I hope he feels better man, sometimes i think about is it worth it to try to look a bit bigger and leaner at the cost of your family finding out you died with a needle in your hand? Sorry dont want to get anyone down but I think at least being smart when using and taking certain precautions would make a lot of difference.

[djacosta]

Here is a few more studies:

Atrial Fibrillation and Anabolic Steroids
Sullivan ML, Martinez CM, Gallagher EJ
J Emerg Med. 1999;17(5):851-7
A young male bodybuilder, consuming large doses of anabolic steroids (AS), presented to the Emergency Department (ED) with symptomatic rapid atrial fibrillation (AF). Echocardiogram revealed significant septal hypokinesis, and posterior and septal wall thickness at the upper limit of normal for highly trained athletes. The atrial fibrillation had not recurred at 10 weeks after discontinuation of AS use. Consumption of these agents in athletes has been associated with hypertension, ischemic heart disease, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and sudden death.





MEDLINE Abstracts: Adverse Effects of Anabolic Steroids


from Medscape Pharmacotherapy



What's the latest in the adverse effects of anabolic steroids? Find out in this easy-to-navigate collection of recent MEDLINE Abstracts compiled by the editors at Medscape Pharmacotherapy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Increased Premature Mortality of Competitive Powerlifters Suspected to Have Used Anabolic Agents
Parssinen M, Kujala U, Vartiainen E, et al
Int J Sports Med. 2000;21(3):225-227
Misuse of supraphysiological doses of anabolic steroids is claimed to have serious side effects. The aim of the study was to determine the mortality, and the cause of premature deaths among a group of subjects who are strongly suspected to have used anabolic steroids for a non-medical purpose over several years. The mortality of 62 male powerlifters placed 1st-5th in weight series 82.5-125 kg in Finnish championships during 1977-1982 was compared with the mortality of population controls. The mortality during the 12-year follow-up was 12.9% for the powerlifters compared to 3.1% in the control population. By 1993 eight of 62 powerlifters and 34 of 1094 population controls had died, thus the risk of death among the powerlifters was 4.6 times higher (95% CI 2.04-10.45; p = 0.0002). The causes of premature death among the powerlifters were suicide (3), acute myocardial infarction (3), hepatic coma (1) and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma (1). These findings add to the growing amount of evidence of an association between anabolic steroid abuse and premature death, and support the view that measures to decrease AAS misuse among both competitive and amateur athletes are justified.

[NewJuice]

After reading this thread I really started to think about a few things. I myself had some drug issues, What got me away from it was "THE GYM". Got me focused and healthy. But after about a year and I found some new drugs I was introduced to (AAS). Now I see no end in site. Just being honest. I also have a hard time takeing long enough breaks and not feeling "right" when Im not "ON". I have had a irregular EKG and was sent to a specialist who told me I had a strong health heart. I was worried walking into the office. I hate to ask a question and change the subject, I cant help but to notice ex drug addicts acting like they are not one now...lol If your on gear and love it and are not willing to come off (your an addict). I will be first to admit Im a steroid addict. I love it. In the back of my mind was I thinking I could have a heart attack from the bumps of coke I was doing???? of course, did I give a shit at the time??? NO... Same shit. We are all under the influance so we choose not to see it or think about it. So are we recovered addicts OR did we just switch our addictions... I know Im going to get all kinds of responces to this and Im sure it doesnt apply to alot of people but for a fact it applys to some.

[Maximus_Pecs]

^^^^Good posts... I'd really like to know the mediacal reson from the doctors. I find these interesting as some including HBO have said AAS if used properly has no long term negative effects. Even HRT clinics claim it to me the fountain of youth. I even have a friend that has been prescribed Test Cyp by his doc for having low test levels. Of course its only a 250mg shot every two weeks.

I also truly hope that your bro is going to be ok.

[djacosta]

ok ill tell you...when they say fountain of youth they are talking about adults that have started to have symptoms (say tiredness and hairloss, etc) and its due to say low testosteron or GH, and they are usually in their 40s or 50s. Now when you do start on HRT they start you on say low dose of test say for example 300mg per week and maybe GH. They dont start you on tren , winstrol , anavar , test 1000mg, gh 8iu, igf1, masteron , anadrol , primobolan , etc. and the other 100 drugs we take not to loose our hair and then the ones not to gain water and then the onese not to get bitch tits, and then since all this messes with our thyroid will take thyroid or clenbuterol on top of it....etc....you get my point.
It is recommended to have 2 glasses of wine every night, but not to have 4 vodka shots, 13 beers, etc.. same exact thing..
so what is the problem,,,,the problem is that 30 years ago all these drugs were not as available as they are now, so people like arnold who were pro compared to you and me only used milder stuff. Now a 19 years old kid here post should i take 8 iu of GH or 1000mg of testosterone ...where is the health problme, in all this? Well if there is one it will show up in our generation in about 10 to 30 years when we get to be 50 and 60 and we have done all these cycles without knowing what we realy were doing at that time.
Anyhow I am not here to prevent anyone from doing their summer cycle because we all say who cares at least i look good, but i think this is a good thread becasue it puts real life stuff we dont here to often about into perespective. [



QUOTE=Maximus_Pecs]^^^^Good posts... I'd really like to know the mediacal reson from the doctors. I find these interesting as some including HBO have said AAS if used properly has no long term negative effects. Even HRT clinics claim it to me the fountain of youth.

I also truly hope that your bro is going to be ok.[/QUOTE]

[Maximus_Pecs]

ok ill tell you...when they say fountain of youth they are talking about adults that have started to have symptoms (say tiredness and hairloss, etc) and its due to say low testosteron or GH, and they are usually in their 40s or 50s. Now when you do start on HRT they start you on say low dose of test say for example 300mg per week and maybe GH. They dont start you on tren , winstrol , anavar , test 1000mg, gh 8iu, igf1, masteron , anadrol , primobolan , etc. and the other 100 drugs we take not to loose our hair and then the ones not to gain water and then the onese not to get bitch tits, and then since all this messes with our thyroid will take thyroid or clenbuterol on top of it....etc....you get my point.
It is recommended to have 2 glasses of wine every night, but not to have 4 vodka shots, 13 beers, etc.. same exact thing..
so what is the problem,,,,the problem is that 30 years ago all these drugs were not as available as they are now, so people like arnold who were pro compared to you and me only used milder stuff. Now a 19 years old kid here post should i take 8 iu of GH or 1000mg of testosterone ...where is the health problme, in all this? Well if there is one it will show up in our generation in about 10 to 30 years when we get to be 50 and 60 and we have done all these cycles without knowing what we realy were doing at that time.
Anyhow I am not here to prevent anyone from doing their summer cycle because we all say who cares at least i look good, but i think this is a good thread becasue it puts real life stuff we dont here to often about into perespective. [



QUOTE=Maximus_Pecs]^^^^Good posts... I'd really like to know the mediacal reson from the doctors. I find these interesting as some including HBO have said AAS if used properly has no long term negative effects. Even HRT clinics claim it to me the fountain of youth.

I also truly hope that your bro is going to be ok.

[/QUOTE]

I totally understand where you are coming form I was talking about just taking test alone, 400-500mg doses a week maximum. Of course "nearly everything" done in moderation will allow your body to recover to a degree but are mild doses of test over a long period or over many cycles causing longterm issues. I'm peronally curious as I've done a few test, test/eq/tren cycles with great results and at some point am looking to consider HRT.

[Maximus_Pecs]

djacosta, I was actually refering to your posts when i mentioned good posts, someone just beat me to posting. I'm also not tellign anyone not to cycle heck I'm on a Test E cycle now. I'm just seeing a few of these Heart issues pop up on the board lately and it has me thinking.

[djacosta]

No thanks, i think that AAS could def be used properly or just a great site with all these info and people's experiences would not be functioning. The difficult question which i belive is a subjectivce one, is that as an individual is your body healthy enough or does it requrie or can it handle AAS. If you are genetically prone to having a large heart or have a bad histroy of heart dz in your family then jucie may not be the best. Why bec even at the smallest dose it may increase your bp enough to have say a stroke etc... so u see my point is that everyone should know their bodies well enough and be healthy enough (going to a doc regualry as someone mentioned above) etc.....

djacosta, I was actually refering to your posts when i mentioned good posts, someone just beat me to posting. I'm also not tellign anyone not to cycle heck I'm on a Test E cycle now. I'm just seeing a few of these Heart issues pop up on the board lately and it has me thinking.

[TheSentinal]

Great thread! I agree that moderation is key and wise decision making. Most guys here are smart and think out there cycles - planning and obtaining everything they need for safe and successful results. For those that push the limits of chemicals and time, then the grim reaper starts working out with you. I think all of us who use AAS find that it gives us a feeling of confidence, provides us with compliments from others and is a source or well being. That is a tough feeling to let go of. We have to if we want to stay healthy and allow our bodies to reset themselves. Combine this with blood work and yearly physicals, you will have a good understanding if how your body is reacting and how hard you can press the AAS gas pedal. Everyone be safe and keep the AAS brotherhood strong.

[finny]

I have two things to add:
1) As we all know, drug use and AAS don't mix
2) Some of you guys that never do cardio, at some point you might re-thing that.

I have always been for cardio. It doesn't matter that you're loosing bf as is. You still have to maintain cardiovascular health. All this muscle won't do you any good if you can't climb a flight of stairs...

[rodosman]

Update

So it turns out that my friend DID NOT have a heart attack. THe first doctor to see him misdiagnosed him and told him he had a slight heartattack. The reason that he even went to the hospital was for a cough he had for 4 weeks and couldn't get rid of. THe second doctor told him that fluid built up in his lungs cuz his heart was weak and oversized. I don't think my friend had a stent put in that was just what he was saying after they gave him some fentanyl and valium.

SO big relief for everybody, but definately take care of yourselves the right way.

PS. The second doctor who was this obese fat man told my friend to put down the weights for a little while and its ok to get fat. Sometimes I think doctors are no smarter than the average person with above average Common Sense!

[Maximus_Pecs]

A relief to hear he did not have a Heart Attack, I wish him the best.

[bpm1]

sometimes docs dont even have a "little" common sense. ive learned that just because a doc says it or will prescribe it to you, doesnt mean its right or it wont hurt you.

[ebjack]

This is congestive heart falure...you can die from this too

Update

So it turns out that my friend DID NOT have a heart attack. THe first doctor to see him misdiagnosed him and told him he had a slight heartattack. The reason that he even went to the hospital was for a cough he had for 4 weeks and couldn't get rid of. THe second doctor told him that fluid built up in his lungs cuz his heart was weak and oversized. I don't think my friend had a stent put in that was just what he was saying after they gave him some fentanyl and valium.

SO big relief for everybody, but definately take care of yourselves the right way.

PS. The second doctor who was this obese fat man told my friend to put down the weights for a little while and its ok to get fat. Sometimes I think doctors are no smarter than the average person with above average Common Sense!

[Microbrew]

I'm 39 and just found out that one of my valves is thicken. Just had another echo done and a stress test, will find out more next wk. My doc was more concern about my heavy lifting then when I told him I've taken AAS and GH. He told me to lighten up the weight, but he did say that the combo of AAS, GH and heavy lifting will enlarge the heart.

Micro

[domeyeahaigh]

Okay, well, for everyones sake, I think we should all brainstorm ways to increase the strenght of our hearts, why not?

[Wavelover]

Most athlete have larger heart than average people due to heart muscle hyperthropy, in medical science this condition is normal as long as the size within certain limit and criteria. A radiology specialist can do measure the size of the heart by looking the X ray film. The abnormal size is extremely big, known as Heart failure. Heart failure could be the complication of some variety of heart disease including prolong heart attack. One of the mild sysmptom is dyspnoe d'effort or difficult to breath when walking short distance.
I don't know whether heart attack or heart failure are directly due to AAS usage.

[MuscleScience]

How did this thread come back from the dead?????