Looking for info about HCG and Leydig desensitization.

[Serotonin]

I've spent the past couple hours looking for info on leydig cell receptor desensitization and the refractory period of that event, after the administration of HCG .

Most of the studies I've found are based off rats obviously, and a lot of them are given around 500iu or more for their tiny bodies. This resulted in huge amounts of receptor desensitization and after a primary increase in plasma testosterone levels they plummeted shortly after due to the refractory period HCG causes.

Something I read by Bill Roberts, and how he is not a fan of HCG, sparked my interest in the impact it could possibly have on the testes and what, if any, permanent damage it may cause to steroidogenesis after a cycle and during PCT. Bill makes a good in saying HCG actually counteracts the bodies GnRH feedback loop by acting like LH, thus not truly restoring it's function.

So, if you've read any interesting studies or have something about this subject... post it up.

[Merc..]

Down reg of the leydig cell is caused by blocking the conversion of 17 ohp to test.. Nolva blocks this action..

If you look up desensitize and leydig you will see that the desensitization is not caused by PKC , but rather its caused by hcg 's effects on 17 ohp . Therefore nolva will block this from occurring..

Merc.

[Serotonin]

I have read that Merc but I'm concerned about this with Tren . What dosage of Nolva would be safe to run if say, you were running tren and wanted to run HCG throughout to prevent total shutdown?

[Merc..]

You will be shut down ( on your cycle) so HCG on cycle is not a concern..

Its when you want to use it in PCT that its suppressive nature becomes a concern..

You dont want to take something thats going to further suppress you when you are trying to recover.. ( thats why if you use hcg in pct nolva should also be used . Reason for this in my above post )..

Merc.

[Merc..]

Have you ever used Hcg ??

Merc.

[taiboxa]

hcg makes me pre'ejaculate!

[Merc..]

hcg makes me pre'ejaculate!

Merc.

[100%NATURAL-theGH]

hcg makes me pre'ejaculate!

Oooo... Riiight... I'm gonna remember that one next time.. haha

[Serotonin]

Yes Merc, I used it during my first cycle and during it's PCT.

Tai it makes me pre-ejaculate too... like a fvcking faucet.

[X-Large]

Im on HRT and i get HCG and i asked 3 MD´s (experts on HRT) if hcg damages the leydig cells and all of them said that they had never ever during their 20-30years as doctors heard of a single case of this

[G-1000]

The hcg will help keep the testies size and when pct comes it will make it easer.

[BG]

A post from Eclypz from M+M


ultimately the best protocol for a seasoned user (someone who can tell when they are atrophying down south) is to use Hcg only during the cycle and as little as is needed to elicit the effect as least often as possible.

On average that works out to about three days into a cycle at 500iu every three days(again though, everyone is different, I noticed a strong response on only 250iu). I firmly believe it's as much an art as it is a science. By that I mean everyone is different and their hpta will respond differently to anything. But once you start noticing a change in the size of your testes you've already gone into a state of low lh. At that point you need to administer the Hcg. Some people will tell you to use larger amounts, like 1500ius but I will tell you from experience that very few people would need that much. My philosophy is - the least amount of interference on your part, the better... The more gradual and moderate the better. Your own body never releases the amount of Lh at one time to equal 1500 iu's of Hcg. More than 1000ius and you run the risk of spillover into estrogen (even with the use of an AI, I firmly believe that the surge in test can cause a spillover, especially if you are using a moderate amount of AI which is better for you anyhow). Stop using this at the end of your cycle, and commence your usual pct routine.

Why stop at the end of the cycle and not through pct? Because Hcg is in and of itself a powerful compound. It's turbocharged stimulation of your test production is actually so strong that your body will assume Lh isn't needed, because you're providing an artificial stimulation, so it just stays shut down. Post cycle you really want nothing stimulating or SIMULATING rather, your own body's natural rhythms. At that point you need to let it be and do what it needs to for recovery.


Also heres something DR.John posted about when to stop HCG if used during a cycle.


However, when to d/c the hCG depends on the particulars of the cycle. It probably is best to continue the hCG for "a bit" after the cycle. The trick is to maintain Leydig cell form and function wihtout having the HCG-induced T suppress the HCG as serum androgen levels are falling. It's all in the timing.

[Serotonin]

Yea BG, that was what Roberts was saying. Makes perfect sense.

Thanks for the info fellas.