Gyno needs more than just estrogen

[Merc..]

There has been a lot of post as of late concerning gyno .. I wanted to go over a few things that seem to be misunderstood ..

Lets start with talking about gyno .. What is it ? The medical term is gynecomastia .. It is the formation of breast tissue .. Here is the medical definition of gynecomastia..

Gynecomastia

Alternative Names
Breast development in a male
Definition
Gynecomastia is the development of abnormally large breasts in males.

Considerations
The condition may occur in one or both breasts and begins as a small lump beneath the nipple, which may be tender. The breasts often enlarge unevenly. Gynecomastia during puberty is not uncommon, and usually goes away over a period of months.
In newborns, breast development may be associated with milk flow (galactorrhea). This condition usually lasts for a couple of weeks, but in rare cases may last until the child is 2 years old.

Causes
The most common cause of gynecomastia is puberty.
Other causes include:
Chronic liver disease
Exposure to anabolic steroid hormones
Exposure to estrogen hormone
Genetic disorders
Kidney failure
Marijuana use
Side effects of some medications
Testosterone (male hormone) deficiency
Rare causes include:
Genetic defects
Overactive thyroid
Tumors

Home Care
Apply cold compresses and use analgesics as your health care provider recommends if swollen breasts are also tender.

When to Contact a Medical Professional
Call your health care provider if the breasts have developed abnormally or if there is swelling or pain in one or both breasts.
Note: Gynecomastia in children who have not yet reached puberty should always be checked by a health care provider.

What to Expect at Your Office Visit
Your health care provider will take a medical history and perform a physical examination.
Medical history questions may include:
Is one or both breasts involved?
What is the age and gender of the patient?
What medications is the person taking?
How long has gynecomastia been present?
Is the gynecomastia staying the same, getting better, or getting worse?
What other symptoms are present?
Testing may not be necessary, but the following tests may be done to rule out certain diseases:
Blood hormone level tests
Breast ultrasound
Liver and kidney function studies
Mammogram
Intervention:
If an underlying condition is found, it is treated. Gynecomastia during puberty usually goes away on its own; however, persistent, extreme, or uneven breast enlargement may be embarrassing for an adolescent boy. Breast reduction surgery may be recommended.
After seeing your health care provider:
If your health care provider made a diagnosis related to gynecomastia, you may want to note that diagnosis in your personal medical record.
Update Date: 12/6/2007



As you can see from the common causes ( listed above), gyno can occur during puberty .. There are many other known things that can cause gyno .. Steroids is not the only thing .. People seem to relate gyno mostly with steroid use , but they are surprised when I tell them all the other things that can contribute to having the dreaded bitch tits form..

I see a lot of post on the board about people asking about gyno and how estrogen's role is very important in it's formation ..

There is a misconception about this ( so it seems ) ... Yes, estrogen's role is a important one in the formation of gyno .. Gyno needs estrogen to form .. You see these post about it all the time .. " Take a AI's to try to knock out estrogen so gyno cant form " .. " If there isn't any estrogen you wont get gyno" blah blah blah ..

Well as we know estrogen is also important in the muscle building process ( I spoke about it in my estrogen and Ai post)... So trying to totally destroy it is not the best idea as it can reduce your gains .. As well as the health benefits estrogen provides in men ( I will do another post on that though in the future)..


As I have said .. and as you probably have heard (a bunch of times ) .. at least if you are an active member here .. Gyno needs estrogen to form , but what you dont hear a lot is that gyno acually requires estrogen , progesterone as well as other mediators such as IGF and GH to form ..

Gyno cant not form if the internal conditions are not right.. Estrogen or progesterone alone cant cause gyno ..

So like estrogen , progesterone will have minimal effects in breast development ( without anterior pituitary hormones ).. Development of breast tissue im men occurs in a simialir manner as it does in a females ( same hormones cause it)....

Males testes secrete 6 -10 mg of of estradiol per day .. The rest comes from the aromatization of testosterone , as well as androstenedione to estradiol and estrone.. So if you are taking steroids the test your body is converting to estrogen could possible create the proper environment for gyno to form , but I want to clear up the misinformation I keep seeing on the web so people can start to understand that is is not just estrogen that causes gyno ..

People using 19nors ( like deca , tren ) are concerned with progesterone ( and prolactin) issues .. Its is the samething .. Gyno requires progesterone , estrogen ( as well as other mediator's to form).. People using 19 nors could also consider using letro as it has been shown to lower PgR ( progesterone receptors)...

So yes controlling estrogen is a good way to avoid gyno , but I wanted to clear this up a little bit so more people understand it's not just estrogen that causes gyno .. There have been a lot of post about this so I thought is was worth discussing ..


Merc.

[PEWN]

good write up is that in the mag ?

[Merc..]

good write up is that in the mag ?

Thanks Pewner .....

nah ( not in mag) .. I just wrote because people have been asking me about gyno and estrogen a lot .. When I tell them its not just estro they usually tell me that they didnt know that ..



Merc.

[Big]

Good post Merc

[dogman69]

great post thanks for the info merc

[wilson9d]

Is someone less likely to develop gyno with a mild cycle?

[shifty_git]

Great post merc! Some interesting points in there!

[Kale]

Great post Merc, I am particularly interested in the follow up article you mention in the Health benefits Estrogen provides. I have a love hate relationship because of my Prostate so I am really keen to see what you have to say.

[RANA]

Always a good read with you Merc

[magic32]

Good post Merc, you hit it on the head, estrogen alone would only rise an fall. I'm currently researching medical journals for non-surgical gyno CURES (as opposed to mere treatments) which I hope to release at the end of next week, and would like offer this etiological information to your well written piece:

Gyno is the result of 3 primary functions that take place simultaneously, or awfully close to it.

Estradiol is the growth hormone of the breast, and an excess of estradiol leads to the proliferation of breast tissue. Under normal circumstances, most estradiol in men is derived from the peripheral conversion of testosterone and adrenal estrone. The basic mechanisms of gynecomastia , hinted at above, are: 1) a decrease in androgen production (and this means natural, the body doesn't register synthetics the same way); 2) an absolute increase in estrogen production (primarily via aromatization in bb'ers) and; 3) an increased availability of estrogen precursors for peripheral conversion to estradiol (see image 1).


FOR A LARGER VIEW: http://www.emedicine.com/plastic/ima...pla0125-01.jpg

[Ni6tO_]

Good read. Thanks!

[MuscleScience]

My nips hurt just thinking about gyno......

[rodgerj]

Some good info, I am a little more educated now.... The only tits I want are the ones in Kale's Avatar

[ecto9]

Thanks for the info Merc. As always a great contributor to this board.

[Merc..]

Thanks for all the replies everyone..



Merc.

[Merc..]

Is someone less likely to develop gyno with a mild cycle?

More test can mean more estrogen , but like I said it takes other factors for gyno to form .. Depending on your dose ( and the compound you are using ).. it can be a factor .. But keep in mind that HRT patients doing low doses also develop gyno..


merc.

[Merc..]

Good post Merc, you hit it on the head, estrogen alone would only rise an fall. I'm currently researching medical journals for non-surgical gyno CURES (as opposed to mere treatments) which I hope to release at the end of next week, and would like offer this etiological information to your well written piece:

Gyno is the result of 3 primary functions that take place simultaneously, or awfully close to it.

Estradiol is the growth hormone of the breast, and an excess of estradiol leads to the proliferation of breast tissue. Under normal circumstances, most estradiol in men is derived from the peripheral conversion of testosterone and adrenal estrone. The basic mechanisms of gynecomastia , hinted at above, are: 1) a decrease in androgen production (and this means natural, the body doesn't register synthetics the same way); 2) an absolute increase in estrogen production (primarily via aromatization in bb'ers) and; 3) an increased availability of estrogen precursors for peripheral conversion to estradiol (see image 1).


FOR A LARGER VIEW: http://www.emedicine.com/plastic/ima...pla0125-01.jpg

Thanks for adding that Magic...


Merc.

[Lexed]

once again a great post by the amazing mercster

[DannyNyce]

words of wisdom by merc and magic. thanks!

[magic32]

More test can mean more estrogen , but like I said it takes other factors for gyno to form .. Depending on your dose ( and the compound you are using ).. it can be a factor .. But keep in mind that HRT patients doing low doses also develop gyno..


merc.

Very true...

...and I'm finding so do HAART (Highly Active Anti-Retroviral Therapy) patients, those who are AIDS/HIV medicated, below are just a few of these studies:

• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

IF THERE'S A "GENUINE" CURE OUT THERE, REST ASSURED...I'LL FIND IT!

[dupa95]

to the top

[Merc..]

Very true...

...and I'm finding so do HAART (Highly Active Anti-Retroviral Therapy) patients, those who are AIDS/HIV medicated, below are just a few of these studies:

• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
  
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

IF THERE'S A "GENUINE" CURE OUT THERE, REST ASSURED...I'LL FIND IT!

That sounds Great Magic...... Keep us posted on your research .. This is very interesting to me ....



Merc.

[Panzerfaust80]

wow so many smart people in here i feel stupid!!

+my nips hurting also thinkin about gyno. x2

good read!! Kale when's the nude one comin bro???

[Merc..]

Bump..

[Merc..]

Great post Merc, I am particularly interested in the follow up article you mention in the Health benefits Estrogen provides. I have a love hate relationship because of my Prostate so I am really keen to see what you have to say.

Yea , we have been discussing lately, a lot about how killing your estrogen level ( using a strong aromatase inhibitor ) can greatly diminish your gains while on cycle .. So we have only looked at it from the view point of its very important role in the muscle building process..

However, we haven't really went into all the postive health benefits that estrogen provides ( in men ), as well as all the negative health risks that there are when estrogen levels are too low..

It is a interesting topic and I think a lot of people have heard that estrogen is the enemy for so long that they dont bother to do the research so they dont see all the postive things that estrogen does .. You want to try to control estrogen , too high or too low of a estrogen level can be problematic..

I have been receiving a lot of questions concerning estrogen .. People are almost always surprised when I explain all the benefits estrogen has .. They usually say I thought estrogen is something men dont want to have , and a lot of them tell me they have bascially taken an all out warfare type approach ( using a strong AI) to try to totally destroy estrogen ...

Like I said I think the problem is that people have been saying all the negative things about estrogen over and over again for so long ( on the message boards) thats is just burned in peoples brains. .. You dont hear a lot about it's postive effects..

Actually , it is one of the biggest misunderstood topics I see on the internet .. There are many misunderstood topics.. Don't get me wrong , but it seems to me that estrogen's role in men is one topic that many people dont really understand .. Yes , most people know that test is anabolic .. But not many people know that estrogen has anabolic properties as well... It is a important topic and I look forward to discussing it .. Maybe I can do an article about it for the mag since it is such an important topic..

Merc.

[Merc..]

My nips hurt just thinking about gyno......

my bad... lol..

[wilson9d]

bump merc i have a qyno question on the pct page. would you mind looking at it please?

[J*U*icEd]

nice merc. wonderful work as usual!!!

[Igifuno]

beautiful post... sticky this puppy. there's been many posts about gyno, but this is an in depth, yet understandable adaptation of the fundamentals surrounding gyno, what it is, what can cause it and who or what condition can contribute to the development of it.

another classic, merc. thanks for all of your shared knowledge, bro. i've learned a lot from your insight.

IG

[Merc..]

bump merc i have a qyno question on the pct page. would you mind looking at it please?

Sure ....

[Merc..]

nice merc. wonderful work as usual!!!

beautiful post... sticky this puppy. there's been many posts about gyno, but this is an in depth, yet understandable adaptation of the fundamentals surrounding gyno, what it is, what can cause it and who or what condition can contribute to the development of it.

another classic, merc. thanks for all of your shared knowledge, bro. i've learned a lot from your insight.

IG

I am gald people find it helpful...

Thanks for the feedback guys .....


Merc.

[legobricks]

GREAT post Merc! Once again clearing up some questions many of us have! Honestly I think this should be in the magazine to help clear it up for many that read it and may not be members here.

[Merc..]

Thanks Lego ...

[Second2None]

great post

[dupa95]

to the top

[sorel_C]

awsome read,, homework well done merc.................

[Merc..]

great post

awsome read,, homework well done merc.................

Thanks guys ....




Merc.

[Merc..]

To the top ..

[MeetTed]

Are there any side effects of taking liquid letro? I have been taking it for almost three weeks now. I had gyno really really bad on my left nipple and now it's almost completely gone. There was a bump the size of a big marble and it was making my nipple puff out big time along with some pain. There is a little bump now that makes my nipple puff out a little but only noticeable to me. There is no pain like there was before. I want to know if I should continue to take the liquid letro,

[Merc..]

Are there any side effects of taking liquid letro? I have been taking it for almost three weeks now. I had gyno really really bad on my left nipple and now it's almost completely gone. There was a bump the size of a big marble and it was making my nipple puff out big time along with some pain. There is a little bump now that makes my nipple puff out a little but only noticeable to me. There is no pain like there was before. I want to know if I should continue to take the liquid letro,

Here is the drug.com info on letro ( sides and stuff)..


http://www.drugs.com/MTM/letrozole.html


It has effects on lipids... If the gyno is gone ( as you have explained) I would stop ther letro .. Keep in mind letro causes estrogen rebound when you stop taking it .. So make sure to taper the dose..



Merc.