First cycle Test Prop..

**KnowledgeIsPower** · 08-20-2008, 01:33 AM

Getting ready to take first cycle.. against popular opinion choose test-p planing on self injecting eod for eithier 6 or 8wks @ either 100 or 125mgs

Also thinking of running a small pryamid of t3 with it.

Looking for opinions on pros/cons

**stallion_1** · 08-20-2008, 01:38 AM

if u can handle the shots go for the test p

**Kale** · 08-20-2008, 04:04 AM

Age, Stats, workout experience ? Do you know what PCT is ?

**KnowledgeIsPower** · 08-20-2008, 05:54 AM

Currently 25yo 6'4 220lbs 20%bf(i kno its high..whatevr) weight training 3-4yrs.
Very confident with my Diet & Routine

However, after endless hours research reading stickys, and opinions im still stuck on pct, I have natural gyno(all my life) and def dont want to make it worse. So this is what I have on hand.

Nolva 20mg tabs
Clomid 50mg tabs
Arimidex .25 tabs
Hcg 5000iu

If i did 1.35mil t-prop eod for 8wks...(?) works out for total on hand

Was planing on Starting Nolva @ 20mg eod while "on" and increasing it to 20mg ed for (5 wks?) of pct with 50mg clomid ed. (It'd probably be better to use arimidex here but unsure whether it would more efficeint used in pct or while "on"?)

HCG 500iu twice a week last 2 weeks on & first two weeks PCT.

For the t3 was thinking:
While on prop,

25mg ed 1st 5 days
50mg ed nxt 8 days
75mg ed nxt ten days
100mg 5 days
then back to 75mg for ten
then back to 50mg for 8
then 25mg for the last 5 (?)...works out for total on hand

Areas that are unclear/undecided are marked with (?)

Hope this makes it easier to advise...

**TAZ** · 08-20-2008, 07:22 AM

If you can take the sticks you'll be fine. Some people have some local pain at the injection site with prop but other than that you should be fine with it.

How much Arimidex are you running with it? Knowing that you have gyno to begin with I would make sure you have more than enough tamoxifin on hand.

-TAZ

**inky-e** · 08-20-2008, 07:41 AM

Your cycle looks ok, I would do a 4 week pct, adex and nolva should be enough, also use the adex during at the first sign of gyno. IMO

**one8nine** · 08-20-2008, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by KnowledgeIsPower

Getting ready to take first cycle.. against popular opinion choose test-p planing on self injecting eod for eithier 6 or 8wks @ either 100 or 125mgs

Also thinking of running a small pryamid of t3 with it.

Looking for opinions on pros/cons

test p is injected daily
if you are scared of needles use test e or c

**one8nine** · 08-20-2008, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by KnowledgeIsPower

Currently 25yo 6'4 220lbs 20%bf(i kno its high..whatevr) weight training 3-4yrs.
Very confident with my Diet & Routine

you have absolutely no room to be confident in your diet if you are 20% bf. you need to work on your bf before you even dream about a cycle. 12% or under. 20% shows you have a terrible diet.

Originally Posted by KnowledgeIsPower

However, after endless hours research reading stickys, and opinions im still stuck on pct, I have natural gyno(all my life) and def dont want to make it worse. So this is what I have on hand.

if you cycle at your bg your gyno is going to get way worse

Originally Posted by KnowledgeIsPower

Nolva 20mg tabs
Clomid 50mg tabs
Arimidex .25 tabs
Hcg 5000iu

If i did 1.35mil t-prop eod for 8wks...(?) works out for total on hand

Was planing on Starting Nolva @ 20mg eod while "on" and increasing it to 20mg ed for (5 wks?) of pct with 50mg clomid ed. (It'd probably be better to use arimidex here but unsure whether it would more efficeint used in pct or while "on"?)

nolva should never be used on cycle\

20mg nolva and 25mg clomid is a good start for pct
you still need a good ai for pct

use arimidex on cycle

Originally Posted by KnowledgeIsPower

HCG 500iu twice a week last 2 weeks on & first two weeks PCT.

good call

hcg crash course
http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/355725-crash-course-hcg.html#post4127466

my pct
http://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-cycle-therapy/354573-one8nines-opinion-pct-links-side-effect-control-too.html#post4111013

estrogen/progesterone side effect control on cycle
estrogen/progesterone and gyno/side effects INFO FOR NEW GUYS

**KnowledgeIsPower** · 08-20-2008, 04:52 PM

Ok in response, I know my bf% is high but it's come along way and to be honest I really dont want my body weight going much lower. Apparently I carry it well as Ive been doing very well with some desirable members of the opposite sex.

Cutting some bf% points was my idea with adding the t3.

There's def plenty of nolva and clomid avail, arimidex is the only thing that is limited.. 50 .25 tabs.

So I guess I'm looking for the best protocol to use the nolva and/or arimidex while "on" t-prop 1-1.35mil eod and insight/approval on adding the t3 pyramid.

Also do others think gyno is going to get worse if using the right combo nolva, clomid, and arimidex.

**one8nine** · 08-20-2008, 05:28 PM

do not cycle over12%
do not use nolva on cycle
get more arimidex
no

**Lemonada8** · 08-20-2008, 07:19 PM

u are similar to me.... but i was 15%bf not 20 but i had gyno from puberty and such... i did a test prop cycle, and my gyno got a lil bigger but it was still in proportion with the growth of my chest, and it went down as soon as i started my PCT, i did a nolva only pct 40/20/20/20 mg ed and i had a hcg 5000 iu spread through 4 days... the gyno hasnt gotten any larger, it shrunk back down... and u could use letro on cycle to prevent gyno...

**Jfew44** · 08-20-2008, 07:37 PM

6'4" 220lbs with 20% bf? Are you sure bro, cause I've never been that high bf and I'm same height 230. Are you just guessing or have you had it tested? Just wondering cause that seems like a very low weight to be 20% at your height.

**kingwilliam** · 08-20-2008, 07:40 PM

Just out of curiosity, why should you not cycle when over 12% BF? I am at 12% right now and just started my second cycle..... (I'm not disagreeing, I just wanna know why)

Knowledge, other than the BF thing I think as long as you can handle the frequent injections you'll love prop.....and it sounds to me like you have at least done some research

**one8nine** · 08-20-2008, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by kingwilliam

Just out of curiosity, why should you not cycle when over 12% BF? I am at 12% right now and just started my second cycle..... (I'm not disagreeing, I just wanna know why)

Knowledge, other than the BF thing I think as long as you can handle the frequent injections you'll love prop.

1. it shows your diet sucks
2. test aromatizes inside of fat
fat creates estrogen
estrogen stores more fat
more
more
more
...
3. blood pressure/overall health

**one8nine** · 08-20-2008, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lemonada8

u are similar to me.... but i was 15%bf not 20 but i had gyno from puberty and such... i did a test prop cycle, and my gyno got a lil bigger but it was still in proportion with the growth of my chest, and it went down as soon as i started my PCT, i did a nolva only pct 40/20/20/20 mg ed and i had a hcg 5000 iu spread through 4 days... the gyno hasnt gotten any larger, it shrunk back down... and u could use letro on cycle to prevent gyno...

15% and 20% are waaayyy different

**Jfew44** · 08-20-2008, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by one8nine

15% and 20% are waaayyy different

Thats what I'm saying. If he's 220 with 20% he must have very little muscle mass. Not flaming just my opinion

**one8nine** · 08-20-2008, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Jfew44

Thats what I'm saying. If he's 220 with 20% he must have very little muscle mass. Not flaming just my opinion

thats about 200lbs 6'4" if you get to ~11%

**KnowledgeIsPower** · 08-21-2008, 12:58 PM

Scale today says 221lbs. 20.7%bf 59.3% water weight not saying its accurate but that what it says... I'm not huge obviously but def have decent muscle mass. Promise you guys im not a fat ass.
Not sure how to describe here but i can bench 210 10x military 150 10x run 8min mile.
I probably could post my whole workout if you guys want.

**Gym Freak** · 08-21-2008, 01:08 PM

If you are using one of those stupid wal-mart scales that tell you total body weight, BMI, Body fat and such then with all due respect you need to beat it with a hammer. Those are grossly inaccurate with a huge margin or error. Go get a body fat composition test done with calipers or do the actuall test where they immerse you in water or whatever. There is no way you could be 21% bf and weigh 221 at 6'4. That is grossly incorrect.

**TranscriptionFactor** · 08-21-2008, 01:29 PM

Are you sure you actually have "gyno"? At 20% BF you may just have chest fat. I really don't think actual gyno (from without AAS) is as common as people think.
Definitely work on your diet and up your cardio before you cycle to get your BF down, other wise sides will be worse.

**one8nine** · 08-21-2008, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by KnowledgeIsPower

Scale today says 221lbs. 20.7%bf 59.3% water weight not saying its accurate but that what it says... I'm not huge obviously but def have decent muscle mass. Promise you guys im not a fat ass.
Not sure how to describe here but i can bench 210 10x military 150 10x run 8min mile.
I probably could post my whole workout if you guys want.

you have a diet AND workout problem if you cant even rep your bodyweight 10x

**one8nine** · 08-21-2008, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by TranscriptionFactor

Are you sure you actually have "gyno"? At 20% BF you may just have chest fat. I really don't think actual gyno (from without AAS) is as common as people think.
Definitely work on your diet and up your cardio before you cycle to get your BF down, other wise sides will be worse.

its very common in high bf%

**KnowledgeIsPower** · 08-21-2008, 02:25 PM

Pretty sure its gyno, (think i was on phucked up allergy med as child may have messed with estrogen) even considering surgery but wanted to see how id look after going on a cycle and then cutting diet after.
As far as diet goes:
Summary ..more protein preworkout, low carb only after workout, water
2700 cal(maintaining amount)
meal 1 &2 50+grams protein 500-600cal verylow/no carb 32oz water

preworkout30-40 grams sugar carb(fruit) 10grms whey
postworkout 40grms whey 30grm sugar carb pre+post=500cal 32+oz water

meal 3 &4 50gram protein 50gr starchy carb 32oz water

before bed 10oz milk +10grm whey

Carb come from whole grain/wheat pasta, bread veggies and fruit
protein from lean meat turkey, chicken, bison, fish and whey

Also nobody has commented on the t3.. wouldnt that help bf% by bosting metabolism

and its not a walmart scale its from sams club...lol
but the trainer's handheld one at the gym read similar

**KnowledgeIsPower** · 08-22-2008, 11:10 AM

Bump for t3 info and diet critique,,,,

**one8nine** · 08-22-2008, 09:53 PM

bump wheres phate at

**Phate** · 08-22-2008, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by one8nine

bump wheres phate at

thanks for the invite, lol

Originally Posted by KnowledgeIsPower

Pretty sure its gyno, (think i was on phucked up allergy med as child may have messed with estrogen) even considering surgery but wanted to see how id look after going on a cycle and then cutting diet after.
As far as diet goes:
Summary ..more protein preworkout, low carb only after workout, water
2700 cal(maintaining amount)actually i got your maintaining amount at 3100 when i did it, but i multiplied by 1.4
meal 1 &2 50+grams protein 500-600cal verylow/no carb 32oz water
how are you eating low carb and 50g of protein with 500-600 carbs, that 300-400 calories that have to come from fat, not good bro
preworkout30-40 grams sugar carb(fruit) 10grms wheygo for sweet potatos, oatmeal, oat bran, or barley here, you need sustained energy
postworkout 40grms whey 30grm sugar carb pre+post=500cal 32+oz water
need to know what you're eating, and you don't need "sugar carbs", complex carbs are much better
meal 3 &4 50gram protein 50gr starchy carb 32oz water

before bed 10oz milk +10grm whey
cut the milk, it's all hidden sugars, check it, if it's skim it's probably got between 8-12g of carbs from sugar per cup, replace with low fat cottage cheese, also cut out the whey, it does nothing at night because its a fast digesting protein and is finished in 45-60minutes, eat some chicken, tuna, steak something else instead
Carb come from whole grain/wheat pasta, bread veggies and fruit
protein from lean meat turkey, chicken, bison, fish and whey

Also nobody has commented on the t3.. wouldnt that help bf% by bosting metabolismyes but without a cycle it can cause catabolism, and from what i've read you don't need to cycle, you need to learn and tweek your diet and everything else for a while, trust me, it'll be worth it

and its not a walmart scale its from sams club...lol
but the trainer's handheld one at the gym read similar

i need to know what you eat bro, post up the food you eat at each meal

for all i know your protein could come from ice cream so post up your food and how much of it you eat