pyramid cycle?

[txpile]

so my boss found out i was lookin at doin a cycle of test e and thought he would give me his advice. he said what he and all his buds did, was this kind of thing....
week 1 250mg
week 2 250
week 3 500
week 4 750
week 5 500
week 6 250
week 7 250

he said you have to build up to a peak and then slowly let yourself off the stuff. he swears by this cycle. i told him im doin a 10 week cycle and he says im doin it all wrong. has anyone heard of cycling like this? your thoughts?

[txpile]

those amounts aren't exact, but you get what im sayin

[LATS60]

so my boss found out i was lookin at doin a cycle of test e and thought he would give me his advice. he said what he and all his buds did, was this kind of thing....
week 1 250mg
week 2 250
week 3 500
week 4 750
week 5 500
week 6 250
week 7 250

he said you have to build up to a peak and then slowly let yourself off the stuff. he swears by this cycle. i told him im doin a 10 week cycle and he says im doin it all wrong. has anyone heard of cycling like this? your thoughts?

Your boss gives bad advice.

[BG]

Its an "old school" way of cycling, I actually like it alot, made recovery for me much easier. I run mine longer though, making my dosage changes at the active time of the esters used. Mine are a little more complex adding dhts but that way will work. If you like give it a try, AS use is an experiment, everytime a tweak here and there. I would go the 10 weeks though, keeping at 750 for the added 3 weeks. Many will argue that you need to build you blood levels up as soon as possible but you will also get hit with lots of estrogen to compensate for addition of all the testosterone when starting say at 500 or 750. All in all Ive seen it work for guys.

[BG]

Your boss gives bad advice.

Whys that??

[txpile]

yeah he is like 40 and he did back in college. so that makes since why he is tellin me the "old school" way. lol. he thinks in his mind 8 weeks is as long as you should ever cycle.

[BG]

yeah he is like 40 and he did back in college. so that makes since why he is tellin me the "old school" way. lol. he thinks in his mind 8 weeks is as long as you should ever cycle.

Using short esters he would be correct, hopefully marcus will chime in on this.

[one8nine]

with all due respect bg, i dont think thats a good way to cycle at all.
injection frequency
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355493

just look at those charts, with long esters your blood "naturally pyramids" anyway with constant dosages in 4-6 weeks, why make it worse

[one8nine]

Using short esters he would be correct, hopefully marcus will chime in on this.

even with short esters imo pyramiding is wrong
why do you like it?

[WARMachine]

^^^ 8 weeks max? That is just plain not true...

Though prymiding is not the census "best" way to juice, its not gonna kill you, like BG said before, "Many will argue that you need to build you blood levels up as soon as possible" and this is true...

I did it for my very first, and, i was not as impressed after doing my next cycle at the same dose for the entire cycle...

To eachs own really, but it is from the "old skool" way of thought, personally, i would never recommend it...
Do some research for yourself and see what you think is best i would say...

[LATS60]

Whys that??

I think it makes more sense to get plasma test levels up and then supply your body with an equal regular dose to keep serum levels as stable as poss.
This is what we all bang on about and try to achieve, so as to minimise sides from supraphysiological levels. Tapering up and down can cause this, thats why it's not common practice anymore. If anything it makes more sense to front load the 1st wk, get the levels up asap and then keep them steady throught the cycle.

[BG]

By having dosage increases your gains dont flatten out. Now don't get me wrong, Im not saying this is the best way but it works. This was big during sust/deca/dbol cycles. Now back to your question, you wont get big increases in estrogen so your water retention will be minimal (wont have to take more drugs as everyone recommends).Coming off also its already has your body slowing down, estrogen decreasing and when you do come off there's not such a big hormone drop. This makes pct easier, less chance of estrogen rebound and is easier on the mind (its a bitch just to stop a cycle when its cranking, that's why so many people loose their edge and stop training because of strength and energy loss). Now for the common 10 weeker like I already said probably isn't a great idea, but when I ran 24+ this kept the gains coming, continual change in hormone levels and no "flattening out of cycle/gains". Also like I said, cycled dht's in and out switching compounds all the time. You can post charts and blood levels ect, ect, but Ive seen them work and they have worked for me. You could go deeper into cortisol building up hinder gains.Its not the best way, but it works, what do you think Arnold and Lou did?

[WARMachine]

btw TXpile...
Lets see these...
age
height
weight
bf%
diet summary/# meals per day
years lifting / workout split
cycle experience (including current one with dosege)
pct/estrogen control knowledge

[BG]

even with short esters imo pyramiding is wrong
why do you like it?

I said with short esters 7 weeks would be long enough.

[one8nine]

I think it makes more sense to get plasma test levels up and then supply your body with an equal regular dose to keep serum levels as stable as poss.
This is what we all bang on about and try to achieve, so as to minimise sides from supraphysiological levels. Tapering up and down can cause this, thats why it's not common practice anymore. If anything it makes more sense to front load the 1st wk, get the levels up asap and then keep them steady throught the cycle.

agree
thats why sust sucks

[one8nine]

I said with short esters 7 weeks would be long enough.

ohhh sorry
so you pyramid long but keep short stable?

[one8nine]

By having dosage increases your gains dont flatten out. Now don't get me wrong, Im not saying this is the best way but it works. This was big during sust/deca/dbol cycles. Now back to your question, you wont get big increases in estrogen so your water retention will be minimal (wont have to take more drugs as everyone recommends).Coming off also its already has your body slowing down, estrogen decreasing and when you do come off there's not such a big hormone drop. This makes pct easier, less chance of estrogen rebound and is easier on the mind (its a bitch just to stop a cycle when its cranking, that's why so many people loose their edge and stop training because of strength and energy loss). Now for the common 10 weeker like I already said probably isn't a great idea, but when I ran 24+ this kept the gains coming, continual change in hormone levels and no "flattening out of cycle/gains". Also like I said, cycled dht's in and out switching compounds all the time. You can post charts and blood levels ect, ect, but Ive seen them work and they have worked for me. You could go deeper into cortisol building up hinder gains.Its not the best way, but it works, what do you think Arnold and Lou did?

thats all i was getting at.
it works but its not the best way.

[BG]

ohhh sorry
so you pyramid long but keep short stable?

Ya the only time I did it was for long cycle, worked very well. Never ran a short one yet.

[txpile]

23, but will be 24 when i start my cycle
177 now
bf% 10 with those things you hold in your hands, dont know how precise those are
lifted on and off for like 4 years, consistently now for 10 months
no cycles
nolva for sure for pct, prob add proviron
diet is very good, high protein and cals

[WARMachine]

Hmmm... Probably gonna add Proviron?

You might wanna read this:
189's pct
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?p=4111013

You down for laying out that diet btw?

Just what a regular days food intake looks like, if you want macros, if not no biggie, im just curious, cause you should beable to put on around 10+lbs natural if you diet is on point.

[txpile]

my diet right now is not what its going to be while on the cycle. when i do bulk (diet and lift) i get up to around 190. im getting ready to bulk again and am wanting to add that extra push with my cycle.

[WARMachine]

You would be better advised to get on a routine diet while you are on and off a cycle...

If you have a weak diet, and then cycle and have a great diet, gain MM, and then go back off your diet, you will lose maximum gains...

My suggestion is to get on that bulk diet asap!

A few pointers never hurt anyone, and if you dont agree what i say, you dont have to do it...
So... Let me see it!

[LATS60]

agree
thats why sust sucks

PMSL.. 2

[txpile]

no i agree. i actually just went to the grocery store today and got the stuff for eating lots and lot and super healthy. i was at 170 or so just a couple weeks ago. im waiting til i get close to 185 before i start my cycle.

[WARMachine]

Ok cool...

So let me see what a days worth of food looks like...

ill give you an example
post it in a format like this:

Meal 1:
8 egg whites
80 gram oatmeal (dry weight)
3 fish oil gel caps

Meal 2
6 oz chicken
7.5 oz cooked sweet potato
1 table spoon olive oil
etc...

Inculde macros if you can, if not w.e. but dont leave out any details...

[txpile]

iv already had this full convo with other guys on a different thread. this thread was just to ask bout a style of cycle my boss had recommended. iv done my research and i know what is needed by me.

[WARMachine]

Yeah i just read it...

Seriously, i would think long and hard before doing a cycle the way your diet is now...

You should be on a routine diet for at least 3months before cycling IMHO...

i dunno how in detailed of outline you want? lol. i do 5 meals a day, lots of chicken, fruits and veg. and plenty plenty of protein. i love your info on pct. trust me, i letting all this settle in before i stick anything in me. im in no rush.

Really?^

well saturdays are bad for me cuz i dont get up til like 11. but today iv eatin- 11:00 breakfast- bowl of cheerios/ protein shake 50g
2:30 snack- apple w peanut butter
6:00 dinner- grilled salmon, rice, green beans/ protein shake 50g
8:30 protein shake
and when i get home around 11:00 from work il have a protein shake and prob bread with peanut butter on it.

on a normal day i throw in a lunch and another snack between breakfast and lunch and drop the 11:00 snack.

That diet sucks! I dont care if its just cause its a Sat. or NOT! No day should EVER look like this if you are even CONSIDERING using AAS!
I dont even know where to start!!!

This is the first step!
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=113010

Take a look, and youll see what im talking about.

You need more protein from food, you having 4 protein shakes! You need to get the majority of your protein intake from actual food.

1) Youre not eating nearly enough
2) Youre getting ALL your protein from SHAKES! 1or2 a day is fine, but you need roughly 150gs of protein from food a day, not SHAKES!
3) you need more(or any for that matter!) complex carbs, i.e. potatoes, pastas etc...
4) missing healthy fats ( fish oil, nut oils ect..)
5) You aren't weighing your food
6) 6 smaller meals throughout the day will keep you in a positive nitrogen balance.

you need to be trolling the diet section!

youre in no condition to be starting a cycle... PERIOD!

[smokethedays]

Yeah i just read it...

Seriously, i would think long and hard before doing a cycle the way your diet is now...

You should be on a routine diet for at least 3months before cycling IMHO...


Really?^



That diet sucks! I dont care if its just cause its a Sat. or NOT! No day should EVER look like this if you are even CONSIDERING using AAS!
I dont even know where to start!!!

This is the first step!
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=113010

Take a look, and youll see what im talking about.

You need more protein from food, you having 4 protein shakes! You need to get the majority of your protein intake from actual food.

1) Youre not eating nearly enough
2) Youre getting ALL your protein from SHAKES! 1or2 a day is fine, but you need roughly 150gs of protein from food a day, not SHAKES!
3) you need more(or any for that matter!) complex carbs, i.e. potatoes, pastas etc...
4) missing healthy fats ( fish oil, nut oils ect..)
5) You aren't weighing your food
6) 6 smaller meals throughout the day will keep you in a positive nitrogen balance.

you need to be trolling the diet section!

youre in no condition to be starting a cycle... PERIOD!

[smokethedays]

No offense it just sounded funny
Agreed though.

[txpile]

ok so here is what i had today so far... and im sorry i dont measure my food

8am 3 eggs
2 toast
bowl of cereal
10am protein shake
rice cake w/ peanut butter on it
1pm 1 chicken breast
baked potato
green beans
3:30 protein shake
6:30 chicken & noodles (some asian dish my bro made)
veg that were in the dish
thats so far. i realized after posting that last one and reading alot, i needed to change my diet. so i did. that day i posted that was a turn around for me. cuz of guys like you who called me out on it. and i thankyou for that. oh and i also take fish oil pills now. and i know i still need to get it in check more. im working on it. thats why im planning on starting my cycle in the beginning of october now. im waiting til my training, diet, and body is in check and ready to go. i dont wanna waste this cycle.

[WARMachine]

Alright bro im glad to hear you plan on waiting, and i hope your not just shinning me on!

Seriously, your gains will be 100X better with a good diet! And youll actually get to keep those gains!...

Just read the stickies and look at others diet and see what looks good to you! Take a few weeks and figure one out, post it in the diet section and let use critique it!

At least your listening, thats a start!

Do it like this:

1) DIET
2) PCT
3) GEAR
4) PUT THEM TOGETHER AND HAVE A GREAT CYCLE!

your at step one! Good luck to you bro!


btw, start weighing your food!

[mkrulic]

ok so here is what i had today so far... and im sorry i dont measure my food

8am 3 eggs
2 toast
bowl of cereal

bad carbs and not enough protien
10am protein shake
rice cake w/ peanut butter on it

bad carb and high fat. this is good pwo but not any other time

1pm 1 chicken breast
baked potato
green beans

better off w/ a sweet potato

3:30 protein shake
6:30 chicken & noodles (some asian dish my bro made)
veg that were in the dish

questionable carbs

thats so far. i realized after posting that last one and reading alot, i needed to change my diet. so i did. that day i posted that was a turn around for me. cuz of guys like you who called me out on it. and i thankyou for that. oh and i also take fish oil pills now. and i know i still need to get it in check more. im working on it. thats why im planning on starting my cycle in the beginning of october now. im waiting til my training, diet, and body is in check and ready to go. i dont wanna waste this cycle.

in addition you have too much shakes going on here. try to keep them for right after your workout. pick better carbs, and how many total cals, protien, carbs and fat is here.

[txpile]

yeah il workout tonight at 11 and have a shake after that. so that makes 3 for the day. i am def listening. no worries on that. i appreciate the advice. my meats usually consist of hamburger and chicken. my bro and i cook alot with those. and i always make sure to have my daily veggies. ive been in the diet stickies for the past hour or so. . . .

[WARMachine]

Hamburger? I assume you use a bun with it?

Thats no good, even if your ground beef was 95%Lean 5%fat it would still suck...

Better keep reading TX

[txpile]

no, sorry i meant beef. but still i get your point.

[BG]

Hamburger? I assume you use a bun with it?

Thats no good, even if your ground beef was 95%Lean 5%fat it would still suck...

Better keep reading TX

Whats wrong with ground beef???

[WARMachine]

If its 95/5 its cool...

I was mostly refering to the bun... Bad carb choice with a bun, not to mention if he has gonna put cheese, condiments, etc... Nothing wrong with ground beef... I just keep the red meat to a minimum... (personally that is, not saying its better)

[txpile]

no i def stay away from eating actual hamburgers. i cook alot with ground beef and chicken. sorry for the confusion.

[WARMachine]

No worries... Have you found anything useful in the diet section yet?

[txpile]

um. . . . . everything! lol. no i totally have. now its just being able to afford eating like that. ha. no im on the right track now. thanks war4btt