will dutasteride kill muscle growth ?

**Kratos** · 01-25-2009, 09:18 PM

dht isn't active in muscle to any extent, you'll gain fine without it

**EmilianoH** · 01-30-2009, 04:29 AM

I don't know why you take Dutasteride, when you should take Finasteride ... Dutasteride is only officially approved to treat enlargement of the prostate gland, and NOT for the treatment of male pattern baldness ...

The mechanism of action of finasteride is to inhibit the steroid 5-alpha reductase, which is an intracellular enzyme that converts testosterone into the potent androgen 5-alpha dihydrotestosterone (DHT). This enzyme is a Type II (in dutasteride affect both) isoenzyme and is found primarily in the prostate, seminal vesicles, epididymides and hair follicles as well as the liver, but not the muscle. What this means is that the activity of the finasteride is confined almost exclusively to the target organs and should not affect muscle mass or athletic performance. The anti-androgen action of this medication is confined almost entirely to the scalp and prostate.

**Kratos** · 01-30-2009, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by EmilianoH

I don't know why you take Dutasteride, when you should take Finasteride ... Dutasteride is only officially approved to treat enlargement of the prostate gland, and NOT for the treatment of male pattern baldness ...

The mechanism of action of finasteride is to inhibit the steroid 5-alpha reductase, which is an intracellular enzyme that converts testosterone into the potent androgen 5-alpha dihydrotestosterone (DHT). This enzyme is a Type II (in dutasteride affect both) isoenzyme and is found primarily in the prostate, seminal vesicles, epididymides and hair follicles as well as the liver, but not the muscle. What this means is that the activity of the finasteride is confined almost exclusively to the target organs and should not affect muscle mass or athletic performance. The anti-androgen action of this medication is confined almost entirely to the scalp and prostate.

where do you get this from? finasteride drops serum concentrations of DHT 60-80%. 5mg of proscar drops dht levels in the prostate about 80%. There is no 5 ar enzyme in muscle. Muscle destroys dht that reaches it by blood anyway. Any impact DHT is having on increased gains is from the nevous system. You might have more agression in the gym...lift more weight...tear your muscles up more...therefore have a more productive cycle. But is the possible better work outs worth hair loss? I don't think so, you're body is anabolically the same.

Type 1 enzyme is expressed only in nongenital skin and liver at low levels from the time the individual is aged 3 years to puberty, at which time enzyme expression is measurable in sebaceous glands and scalp. So, hmmm, wouldn't we want to inhibit that too if we're worried about zits and hairlos?

**vibnad1991** · 01-30-2009, 10:52 AM

so in terms of potential anabolic gains, dht has no effect, hence it would be worthwhile to run dht blocker. has anyone actually experience inhibtion on gains as a result of a dht blocker. one thing i dont understand is why deca and winny work as dht deravatives.

**Kratos** · 01-30-2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by vibnad1991

so in terms of potential anabolic gains, dht has no effect, hence it would be worthwhile to run dht blocker. has anyone actually experience inhibtion on gains as a result of a dht blocker. one thing i dont understand is why deca and winny work as dht deravatives.

yeah, so claim it limits their gains...it really shouldn't on paper
but I could see how it might help with nervous system for strength...who knows if it even does that though, there are plenty of androgens floating around on cycle...I take it and gain just fine.

deca isn't a dht deravative
winny is derived from dht but isn't dht
dht gets deactivated by 3alpha-hydroxysteroid reductase (3a-HSD) in muscle for the dht that travels there by the blood. Then there is no 5ar enzyme or at least none in sufficent quantity so it doesn't make any dht either. Not to say some doesn't hit the receptor after all nothing in the body is 100%. But for the amount of DHT floating around in your system pissing off your sweat glands, giving you zits, an inflamed prostate, and making your hair fall out...you aren't getting a very good bang for the buck. So I say block DHT and add more test or something else.

**Reed** · 01-30-2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by vibnad1991

so in terms of potential anabolic gains, dht has no effect, hence it would be worthwhile to run dht blocker. has anyone actually experience inhibtion on gains as a result of a dht blocker. one thing i dont understand is why deca and winny work as dht deravatives.

I heard and seen numerous people on here talk about how a dht inhibitor reduced performance enhancing effects. The reduction of androgenic effects in other parts of the body are probably what decrease the performance effects. From my understanding the CNS is stimulated by androgens to increase neural output leading to greater strength and recovery. Also the reduction in production of androgen dependent liver growth factor (IGF-1), since DHT is an important androgen in the liver. Its also pays and important role in sex drive and anti estrogen effects. DHT is responsible for the formation of male sex specific characteristics and other characteristics like facial hair, deepening of the voice.

With the winny correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't block DHT it does block the conversion of test to DHT. So a DHT derived agent will still be in full function and have all its side effects on hair and render finasteride useless since is bypassed by the DHT agent.

**Kratos** · 01-30-2009, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Reed

I heard and seen numerous people on here talk about how a dht inhibitor reduced performance enhancing effects. The reduction of androgenic effects in other parts of the body are probably what decrease the performance effects. From my understanding the CNS is stimulated by androgens to increase neural output leading to greater strength and recovery. Also the reduction in production of androgen dependent liver growth factor (IGF-1), since DHT is an important androgen in the liver. Its also pays and important role in sex drive and anti estrogen effects. DHT is responsible for the formation of male sex specific characteristics and other characteristics like facial hair, deepening of the voice.

With the winny correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't block DHT it does block the conversion of test to DHT. So a DHT derived agent will still be in full function and have all its side effects on hair and render finasteride useless since is bypassed by the DHT agent.

It's all a big maybe reed. Maybe CNS output is increased...maybe IGF-1 levels. Maybe people who say they don't gain on DHT blockers don't know what they're talking about. Anti-estrogen...yes, you will be more prone to gyno on a dht blocker as it competes with estrogen for the receptor. So, as always tit meds should be on hand. Secondary sex characteristics...you should be done forming those by the time you go on cycle. Sex drive...you still find a couch sexually attractive if you're on test. 5-ar blocker has no effect on winny but winny will not render fina or duta useless. It will still block the conversion of test to dht.

**Kratos** · 01-30-2009, 11:08 AM

DHT is active in the liver though, it would be intersting to see IGF-1 levels of people on cycle with 5-ar blocker and without. I doubt it matters though.

**FreakofNature23** · 02-03-2009, 01:47 PM

so overall .? is it a good idea to take dutasteride on a test cycle . will it help me even if im mbp ?

**Kratos** · 02-03-2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by FreakofNature23

so overall .? is it a good idea to take dutasteride on a test cycle . will it help me even if im mbp ?

it may not totally eliminate hairloss but will help reduce the amount of damage done by a test cycle...so yes

**bboveri** · 02-03-2009, 08:06 PM

Are you guys that noticed hair thinning after a cycle going to continue to take finasteride for the rest of your lives, even if it is research chem?

**lincoln9** · 03-14-2009, 12:08 AM

I can give you an answer but it may not be what you're looking for. See, back when we lived in tribes as psudo monkey men, we got into fights a lot. Fight over food, fight over women, fight over everything. You'd have the young angry tribal members that would get into it often and bang most of the women cause they were the alpha males. Then you'd have some older dudes who had no chance of winning a fight. So, when the older members would loose their hair it would signal to the younger alpha's...hey, I'm old, don't fight me, I'm not as angry as you anymore. It was benifical to loose your hair cause you weren't as likely to get your ass kicked and it represented wisdom and experience and non-threat. Every once in awhile one of these older dudes would get horny and when the alphas weren't looking get a peice of ass. Because he had the trait benificial to him for his hair to fall out in response to DHT he passed it on to his offspring, therefore f-ing everone over who's now prone to MPB.

DHT itself is not toxic to hair.

That was the answer I was looking for. LOL