benadryl does nothing for clenbuterol.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 03-25-2009, 07:51 PM

Now that I have your attention I wanted to get some adult discussion on whether or not taking benadryl every 3 weeks will for sure upregulate the beta 2 receptors so clen will work better.

Here's the study below I copied and a few of my doubts as to why I do not think benadryl will help clenbuterol . I hope we can get some good feedback on this topic. I'll start things by adding my comments in red and let others elaborate. Please keep it civil. I think Anthony Roberts came up with this idea and it is not being accepted by mainstream bodybuilders in my area.

Clenbuterol can also cause a downregulation in testicular androgen receptors and in pulmonary, cardiac and central nervous system beta-adrenergic receptors(6.) possibly making steroids less effective (if there is androgen receptor downregulation elsewhere as well, then it´s highly probable) while you are on clen; but definitely making clen less effective as time goes on and you keep taking it. To counteract this, you can take some ketotifen every 3rd or 4th week that you remain on clen. It´s a prescription anti-histimines, so it´ll make you drowsy (take before bedtime). Basically, the way this works is to reduce beta-2 receptor activity, and restore receptor function (15).

Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histamine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell´s outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitization of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly. (7). This will allow you to use clen for much longer and it´ll still have the same effects. Also, since Benadryl is an anti-histamine, and histamines have a direct effect on beta-adrenoreceptors (not just Beta-2´s but all of them), using an anti-histamine will have a direct effect on reducing beta-receptor stimulation (16), and thus upregulating your beta-receptors.

MY RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE ARTICLE BELOW IN RED:

Methylation of phospholipids? Beta 1 and 2 receptors operate through a G-s transmembrane protein receptor which when activated by binding of a ligand results in stimulating Adenylate Cyclase. This 2nd messenger cascade converts ATP --> cAMP. The inc cAMP activates Protein Kinase A which then causes the physiological response observed in beta receptors. Beta 1 stimulation which are inc heart contractility, inc heart rate, inc lipolysis and inc renin release. Beta 2 stimulation results in inc heart contractility, inc heart rate, vasodilation of peripheral vessels, bronchodilation, inc lipolysis and inc glucagon release. Here's the funny thing....Renin release is associated with inc Angiotensin 2 levels which inc Aldosterone which is involved in Na+ and water retention.

**Phate** · 03-25-2009, 08:06 PM

i've always wondered about the benedryl trick, good post ronnie, i've always liked ketotifen better, it's just hard for some people to get

**WARMachine** · 03-25-2009, 08:12 PM

^ Ditto.

**Immortal Soldier** · 03-25-2009, 10:22 PM

I don't know what you said Ronnie but it sounded beautiful

**MuscleScience** · 03-25-2009, 10:28 PM

Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histamine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desenBeta receptors are embedded in the cell´s outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when sitization of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

hahahahhahahahahhahaha!!!!!!!

**jimmyinkedup** · 03-25-2009, 10:40 PM

^^^ which part is so hilarious Muscle?

**MuscleScience** · 03-25-2009, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^^ which part is so hilarious Muscle?

Edited in bold

**jimmyinkedup** · 03-25-2009, 11:05 PM

^^^ Hmm after reading the OP and your post - you have it kinda fumbled / switched around there - anyway .... guess i just didnt see the humor .....Like WarMachine said - maybe Im getting old *L*

**MuscleScience** · 03-25-2009, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^^ Hmm after reading the OP and your post - you have it kinda fumbled / switched around there - anyway .... guess i just didnt see the humor .....Like WarMachine said - maybe Im getting old *L*

huh???

**jimmyinkedup** · 03-25-2009, 11:16 PM

The OP -

Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histamine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell´s outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitization of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Your Post:

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histamine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desenBeta receptors are embedded in the cell´s outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when sitization of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

just confused me re: the humor ..... didnt understand the editing - missed the joke thats all....

**MuscleScience** · 03-25-2009, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

The OP -

Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histamine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell´s outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitization of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Your Post:

just confused me re: the humor ..... didnt understand the editing - missed the joke thats all....

Dont feel bad, I think 99.99% of people on here wouldnt find that funny. Cell Biology was my thing in undergrad, so its kinda a biology nerd thing....

**peachfuzz** · 03-26-2009, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Phate

i've always wondered about the benedryl trick, good post ronnie, i've always liked ketotifen better, it's just hard for some people to get

i dont even understand how ketotifen can upregulate beta receptors. can someone point me in the right direction?

PT · 03-26-2009, 03:51 AM

great post ronnie

**Freefalling** · 03-26-2009, 04:58 AM

I am about to start my 2nd cycle of clen . I used Benadrly but i felt like it didnt help. So i opted to go for the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off method. Im wondering though. Do i slowly increase my dosage like when i was first starting out? Like:
Day 1-3 60mcg
Day 4-6 80mcg
Day 7-9 100mcg
Day10-12 120mcg
Or do i just resume from 120mcg ...and continue in that dosage for 2 weeks?

**dynamitekid** · 03-26-2009, 11:11 AM

wouldn't doing one week on one week off prevent downregulation?

**Ronnie Rowland** · 03-26-2009, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by dynamitekid

wouldn't doing one week on one week off prevent downregulation?

yes.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 03-26-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Freefalling

I am about to start my 2nd cycle of clen . I used Benadrly but i felt like it didnt help. So i opted to go for the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off method. Im wondering though. Do i slowly increase my dosage like when i was first starting out? Like:
Day 1-3 60mcg
Day 4-6 80mcg
Day 7-9 100mcg
Day10-12 120mcg
Or do i just resume from 120mcg ...and continue in that dosage for 2 weeks?

You do not have to use a 2 weeks on/2 weeks off approach unless you desire. I have most of my clients start out at 20 mcgs per day and increase it by 20 mcgs every 2-3 weeks as needed. This prevents having to go off the drug during the dieting down phase when preparing for a show. I have found that by taking it for longer one can prevent muscle breakdown more efficiently.

I HOPE THIS HELPS!

**flabbywussy** · 03-26-2009, 03:48 PM

is this the same ketotifen? bc they are now in otc eye drops a very small amount is in it (not great with %) though and not too sure if it even should be consumed.

http://www.zaditor.com/info/answers/drug-facts.jsp

**in2shape** · 03-26-2009, 05:22 PM

ok so where does this get us ?

do we take beadryl ?

does it work ?

those posts were like reading chinese to me

**Freefalling** · 03-26-2009, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by in2shape

ok so where does this get us ?

do we take beadryl ?

does it work ?

those posts were like reading chinese to me

Totally agree with you man. I didnt get jack sh**.

**jeffefrijoles** · 03-26-2009, 06:23 PM

Yes, now in plain english please... us stupids need a point to this

In your opinions then, do we use it (ben or ket) or is it bunk. If not, then what is the favored method/cycling? Thanks guys!

**Nooomoto** · 03-26-2009, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by jeffefrijoles

Yes, now in plain english please... us stupids need a point to this

In your opinions then, do we use it (ben or ket) or is it bunk. If not, then what is the favored method/cycling? Thanks guys!

x2...what do we do now?

**musclehead1983** · 03-26-2009, 08:56 PM

That post made me feel like I should go back to school. i feel dumb... haha

**luxifer93** · 03-26-2009, 08:59 PM

Roids only help grow muscle tissue, not brain tissue

**Mammon** · 03-26-2009, 09:03 PM

just run it 2 weeks on 2 off and dont worry about it... JMO

**in2shape** · 03-26-2009, 11:39 PM

damn!!! i feel a bit smarter now you other fellas cant understand it either lol

seriously that was some freaky deaky shit .....

well took 1st tab today of clen so that about clears it up 4 me does this mean taurine still helps with cramps ????

**Mammon** · 03-26-2009, 11:42 PM

taurine helps.. so does magnesium and potassium.. eat a bananna..

**in2shape** · 03-26-2009, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mammon

taurine helps.. so does magnesium and potassium.. eat a bananna..

thanks bro will do

**Ronnie Rowland** · 03-27-2009, 06:55 PM

In a nutshell, Benadryl is what's called to as an H-1 blocker while Clenbuterol is a beta-2 adrenergic agonist-hence it works through an entirely differently mechanism. The most effective way to upregulate clenbuterol receptors is to take some time off of the drug (for example 2 weeks on/2 weeks off or ramp up the dosages every 2-3 weeks by 20 mcgs until a maximum dosages of around 120 mcgs is reached.

I am of the opinion that the only thing benadryl is going to do for you is make you sleepy!

I HOPE THIS HELPS!

**NewMuscle83** · 03-27-2009, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland

In a nutshell, Benadryl is what's called to as an H-1 blocker while Clenbuterol is a beta-2 adrenergic agonist-hence it works through an entirely differently mechanism. The most effective way to upregulate clenbuterol receptors is to take some time off of the drug (for example 2 weeks on/2 weeks off or ramp up the dosages every 2-3 weeks by 20 mcgs until a maximum dosages of around 120 mcgs is reached.

I am of the opinion that the only thing benadryl is going to do for you is make you sleepy!

I HOPE THIS HELPS!

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "taking some time off of the drug...2 weeks on/2 weeks off" the exact opposite of your second suggestion "ramp up the dosages every 2-3 weeks"??

I'm still confused. Unless you mean that ramping up the dosage, while continually remaining on clen , will upregulate the receptors since your consistently increasing dosage??

**wickid1111** · 03-27-2009, 11:55 PM

he means ramp it up on the next 2 week cycle i think. and i didnt get anything from using benadryl except like ronnie said sleepy. i ran my clen fer 6 weeks strait and to feel anything at the end i was taking 300mcgs... so yea next time im doing the 2 week on 2 week off.

**ghettoboyd** · 03-28-2009, 04:26 AM

wow this shit is way over my head. thanks for breaking it down ronnie. i will try 2 on 2 off next time.

**Stock** · 03-28-2009, 06:44 AM

Benedryl did not help me either. I kept a log of my body temp 3x a day and at day 17, by temp was normal and I couldnt keep it elevated long enough for it to have the same effect as the prior 15 days

**Ronnie Rowland** · 03-28-2009, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by 48volts

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "taking some time off of the drug...2 weeks on/2 weeks off" the exact opposite of your second suggestion "ramp up the dosages every 2-3 weeks"??

I'm still confused. Unless you mean that ramping up the dosage, while continually remaining on clen, will upregulate the receptors since your consistently increasing dosage??

There's more than one way to effectively use clen !

1) you can use a two weeks on/two weeks off protocol.

2) start out with only 25 mcgs (one pill per day) and add in an extra pill every 2-3 weeks until a maximum does is reached. Below is an example of how to gradually increase clen dosages over a 10 week period:

Week 1=20 mcgs daily
Week 2=20 mcgs daily
Week 3=50 mcgs daily
Week 4=50 mcgs daily
Week 5=75 mcgs daily
Week 6=75 mcgs daily
Week 7= 100 mcgs daily
Week 8=100 mcgs daily
Week 9= 120 mcgs daily
Week 10= 120 mcgs daily

**NewMuscle83** · 03-28-2009, 12:15 PM

Hmm..how long does it take the receptors to upregulate? I know people do 2 on 2 off, and some others do 1 on 1 off. So if it takes only one week to upregulate, and clen is ineffective after 2, wouldn't make more sense to do 2 on 1 off??

I don't know if i'm saying this correctly, but what I mean is, wouldn't it be better to take it until it is ineffective (14 or 15 days or whatever) and then only get off long enough for the receptors to upregulate?

**peachfuzz** · 03-28-2009, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

i dont even understand how ketotifen can upregulate beta receptors. can someone point me in the right direction?

**LATS60** · 03-28-2009, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland

Now that I have your attention I wanted to get some adult discussion on whether or not taking benadryl every 3 weeks will for sure upregulate the beta 2 receptors so clen will work better.

No i doub't it, not all anti-histamines are the same, diphenhydramine for instance works by a different mechanism and is metabolised in a totally different way than ketotifin for example, so simply put, no.

Appolgies for being terse but i don't see any need for profundity in this case.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 03-29-2009, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by 48volts

Hmm..how long does it take the receptors to upregulate? I know people do 2 on 2 off, and some others do 1 on 1 off. So if it takes only one week to upregulate, and clen is ineffective after 2, wouldn't make more sense to do 2 on 1 off??

I don't know if i'm saying this correctly, but what I mean is, wouldn't it be better to take it until it is ineffective (14 or 15 days or whatever) and then only get off long enough for the receptors to upregulate?

Receptor upreugulation can be different for everyone. Some people to do fine using a 2 weeks on/1 week off approach.

I am of the opinion that clen lowers T-3 levels. By supplementing with T-3 you can increase the duration of the clen cycle.

Note: When t-3 levels are high, the metabolism will be faster-hence your body will heat up. When t-3 levels decline through the use of clen, your body temperature will decline.

**TASSY5** · 03-29-2009, 09:22 AM

Let me ask a question t you knowledgeable guys,
I am 41 yrs old 230lbs and in the gym 4 to 5 days a week. trying to eat clean and have leaned out a great deal. Was 250 lbs. I have been on TRT therapy for about 15 months 200 mg per week inj. Can I take Clen to help me shred som extra bodyfat I just cant seem to get rid of?
Is it OK to take Clen while on Test C?????is the main question.