VETS: Bulker Cycle Critique

[seriousmass]

ok, by your pics, you are TINY.....NO OFFENSE....but you have NO right talking smack to everyone the way you are.

Post up some pics then bro. You always brag how you're like 270 pounds with 13% bf... well prove it. Let's see it T-Mos.

[Phate]

You know I respect your diet advice bro. Seriously, you're really intelligent, and we have been friends on here for over half a year now. I have nothing more to say about you, but thanks for the attempted "vent" haha... .. you're a good man, honestly.

you know guys, i'm gonna have to review the thread in detail to see if i'm missing something, but i think this thread's epic fail is on all of us, yes we gave our honest opinion to seriousmass, and he shouldn't have been so defensive, but i understand why he got that way, it's hard having people that you respect tell you that your entire way of training/dieting/etc... is wrong without ever having met you

alot of names were thrown and those things can't be taken back, but we're all adults here and we can forgive and forget

so to all my friends i say to take a step back and look over this thread again from an open perspective, if your opinion stays the same so be it but i think that we owe it to each other and this board to at least give this thread and our own words a second look

[seriousmass]

this was entertaining.

Thanks. I appreciate it. It took me like 15 minutes to write the response to every post.. hah.

[seriousmass]

I'm going out for the night. I'll check back later on tonight.

Once again, chuckt12345 POST UP SOME PICS. You little pinner-b*tch.

I can see you looking at this thread through "currently active users"... I'm calling you out, because I know you're a chump, b*tch.

[Dancer]

waittttttttttttt

[T-MOS]

Post up some pics then bro. You always brag how you're like 270 pounds with 13% bf... well prove it. Let's see it T-Mos.

my pics are up on my profile page, go look

but get the facts right, I never said 270 and 13%

My bulk got me to 275 and around 18%
my cut portion has me now at 260 and about 15% which at my age I am good with. want to settle in at 250 and 13% will be fine

[Dancer]

I think many of us just want you to justify why you flame others that do are not theage/bad diet/lift wrong

When you are not old enough, you are tiny, you whould not be cycling....

Do you consider youself a hypocrite?

[Dancer]

Cause it will be entertaining to see how he rationalizes doing it along with the pics.....

Yeah that question.... Just answer it...

[illwillogical]

well stop lyin about what you have run before,, i mean shit, all anyone has to do is read your threads to realize you just BS about what youve done,, im finished with this guy.

Chuck I like you, you don't flame, but you don't listen to these BS troll's stories and call them out. I usually don't call them out because they are so full of it anyone that has been around can figure it out for themselves. But on calling out the BS I think this is good for the newbs who don't know any better.

[*RAGE*]

ok

I am not going to flame you bro and no we are not friends check you profile deleted you yesterday due to your actions the other night. I was not rude to you in my question so your response was un called for. I am sorry it just did not make sense to me.

But if that is your cycle history you do need to step back and let your body recover before going into another cycle. You are young and have a nice frame to build from and will do as you get older..IMO

I will not post in this thread again so

good luck

peace

I had to add this after think about it and reading and talking to dancer's post 92..
If this thread is not deleted then kids under the age of 22 will read this and could cause serious damage to their bodies and sex life.

There is a lot of dangers in using steroids at a young age bone fusion and libedo, just to name a few...

just my two cents...
prone

[Dancer]

The problem here is the principle of the thread. If a mod/vet suggests to a new member to "go research" and they read this thread, does this thread serve the pright purpose?

If a 20 year-old reads this and thinks well he is using aas so it must be ok, that member is correct BECAUSE this kinda of action is not condemned in any strong terms.

No mod or vet flamed Seriousmass here, but I for one think that he should be held to the same standard that the mods and vets here and other places hold other members!

[Mooseman33]

its little kids like u that i just hate. you have been training for what 3-4 years, ur a little boy to me bro, and ur the self proclaimed guru, it really is sad that u dont see it...
and regarding phate, i kiss know ones ass on here, i actually took the time to read alot of his shit cause i knew he never cycled, and the kid is spot on bro...and a hell of a nice guy...

bodyfat shot up due to car accident....was on sidelines....but believe me, diet dialed in, and cranking cardio...

some people are such losers

[seriousmass]

damn it's hot in here. I haven't even read the entire thread, looks like you have a nice base to build off of. more gains could be made naturally, but at least you're not one of the 6' 150lb dudes who says his diet and training is spot-on and steroids are the only answer.
can't we all just get along?

I just smoked. I'm much calmer. lol. I'll give this another go... but politely this time... for you.


And thanks for not locking this thread. I owe you 2 favours now hey? lol.

I think many of us just want you to justify why you flame others that do are not theage/bad diet/lift wrong

When you are not old enough, you are tiny, you whould not be cycling....

Do you consider youself a hypocrite?

Dancer, I do not have a bad diet whatsoever. My training protocol is very well-rounded. And I never tell people not to cycle due to age. Check my posts. So no, I don't consider myself a hypocrite. If you saw how skinny I was 7 months ago, compared to now, you would be shocked. Now is that a good thing - NO. I definitely deserved to be flamed, no doubt. I was 170 and cycling. Now is a completely different situation though. In just over 6 months I peaked my weight at over 200 pounds. I've retained a massive amount of that. IMO, cycling at age 20 was one of my best decisions, it literally changed my life. If you're actually interested in why.. or whatever.. just PM me and i'll tell you all about it.

Chuck I like you, you don't flame, but you don't listen to these BS troll's stories and call them out. I usually don't call them out because they are so full of it anyone that has been around can figure it out for themselves. But on calling out the BS I think this is good for the newbs who don't know any better.

I don't know if i'm misinterpreting this post. But Chuck is a b*tch. He thinks he knows everything, when really his knowledge is extremely limited. I like how he convinced everyone I was 170 pounds. hah. And convinced everyone I lied. He should learn to mind his own business.

I am not going to flame you bro and no we are not friends check you profile deleted you yesterday due to your actions the other night. I was not rude to you in my question so your response was un called for. I am sorry it just did not make sense to me.

But if that is your cycle history you do need to step back and let your body recover before going into another cycle. You are young and have a nice frame to build from and will do as you get older..IMO

I will not post in this thread again so

good luck

peace

I had to add this after think about it and reading and talking to dancer's post 92..
If this thread is not deleted then kids under the age of 22 will read this and could cause serious damage to their bodies and sex life.

There is a lot of dangers in using steroids at a young age bone fusion and libedo, just to name a few...

just my two cents...
prone

Prone, that's fine about deleting me from your friends. I never really targeted you at all this past week... but ok. It's all good bro.

Just so you know, I am recovering right now. I'm done my prop/halo cycle, and I'm now finished PCT. I'm going to be recovering until basically September 1st... so still two more months to go. I get my bloodwork done every 1.5 months, so I'm really in touch with my body. Thank you for your concern though..

its little kids like u that i just hate. you have been training for what 3-4 years, ur a little boy to me bro, and ur the self proclaimed guru, it really is sad that u dont see it...
bodyfat shot up due to car accident....was on sidelines....but believe me, diet dialed in, and cranking cardio...

some people are such losers

You're a loser bro. I f*cking hate your guts. Peace.

[seriousmass]

The problem here is the principle of the thread. If a mod/vet suggests to a new member to "go research" and they read this thread, does this thread serve the pright purpose?

If a 20 year-old reads this and thinks well he is using aas so it must be ok, that member is correct BECAUSE this kinda of action is not condemned in any strong terms.

No mod or vet flamed Seriousmass here, but I for one think that he should be held to the same standard that the mods and vets here and other places hold other members!

Bro. You need to look at my original post. I WAS ASKING FOR HELP. I wanted people to look at my cycle, and help me out.

I was not looking to prove all of you guys wrong. You just all listened to that lying f*cker ChuckT... and as a result, created all this drama.

I didn't want to talk about my previous cycles, because I didn't want people to assume cruising is ok. I've already stated this 3 or 4 times.

[seriousmass]

Now, I'll ask again, politely.

Does anyone have any advice for the cycle I proposed;

I could really use some help tweaking it.

[seriousmass]

my pics are up on my profile pagee

wow. You're massive.

lol. I'm impressed. really, nice work man..

[T-MOS]

wow. You're massive.

lol. I'm impressed. really, nice work man..

If your serious, then Thank you , and those are pre cycle, so I am actually bigger now and a lot wider and thicker at 260. but I didn't touch a steroid until I was 35

[dd0316]

at 196 u should be huge and considering ur upper body is not too thick i.e chest and back...ur legs must be MASSIVE as **** for u to weigh that much

none the less...the only thing i can say to this thread is take a step back and read what you wrote..it honestly sounds like an immature child yelling at his parents because he did not get what he wanted...

i think a big part of using steroids is related to muscle maturity, but i think an even bigger part is related to psychological maturity. If you handle yourself in that manner over an internet forum, i question your ability to handle yourself in other situations where a drug may have an impact on your mental state. A mature man in his 20's would never respond to people in such a manner, swearing and criticizing. Its disappointing to see something like this as i have seen you post on this forum and have respected you.

I think you need to take a moment and do some cleaning up quickly, and use this as a lesson on how not to act.

[seriousmass]

If your serious, then Thank you , and those are pre cycle, so I am actually bigger now and a lot wider and thicker at 260. but I didn't touch a steroid until I was 35

lol.. yah I was being serious. really thick upper back. That's basically the look I'm going for - I think I have really well developed shoulders, and I think my back is alright... but it's just my chest thats lagging terribly. I can't seem to build it properly / proportionately.

That's very admirable that you didn't juice till then. All my friends began when we were 15 / 16 years old.. so I thought I avoided the urge for quite a while..

[T-MOS]

I think the thickness comes with the age. Can't short cut muscle maturity.

I keep saying, bodybuilding is a Marathon, not a sprint. Your thickness will come !!

Just start eating like I did....every two hours. two steaks a day.... it works

[seriousmass]

at 196 u should be huge and considering ur upper body is not too thick i.e chest and back...ur legs must be MASSIVE as **** for u to weigh that much

none the less...the only thing i can say to this thread is take a step back and read what you wrote..it honestly sounds like an immature child yelling at his parents because he did not get what he wanted...

i think a big part of using steroids is related to muscle maturity, but i think an even bigger part is related to psychological maturity. If you handle yourself in that manner over an internet forum, i question your ability to handle yourself in other situations where a drug may have an impact on your mental state. A mature man in his 20's would never respond to people in such a manner, swearing and criticizing. Its disappointing to see something like this as i have seen you post on this forum and have respected you.

I think you need to take a moment and do some cleaning up quickly, and use this as a lesson on how not to act.

Bro, I'm 6'2.... 196 is pretty deceiving on someone my height don't you think? and I don't think my upper body is particularly small at all...

Anyways, I do agree with you.. I went a little nuts there. Generally, my posts are very benign and friendly though. I am just tired of having to prove myself on here.

[seriousmass]

I think the thickness comes with the age. Can't short cut muscle maturity.

I keep saying, bodybuilding is a Marathon, not a sprint. Your thickness will come !!

Just start eating like I did....every two hours. two steaks a day.... it works

I eat my 8 meals a day. I don't drink. I attend university & work concurrently.

I worked my a*s off to get where I'm at. each and everyday man. I did not just rely on the steroids to do all the work. (I know that's not what you're saying, i just wanted to mention it )

I hope to god muscle maturity will still develop properly on me (after all the AAS i've put into myself). I often think about what my body will look like in the future.. that's why after this next cycle, I'm stopping for good. I just need to hit my goal of 220. and i'm done.

[T-MOS]

I eat my 8 meals a day. I don't drink. I attend university & work concurrently.

I worked my a*s off to get where I'm at. each and everyday man. I did not just rely on the steroids to do all the work. (I know that's not what you're saying, i just wanted to mention it )

I hope to god muscle maturity will still develop properly on me (after all the AAS i've put into myself). I often think about what my body will look like in the future.. that's why after this next cycle, I'm stopping for good. I just need to hit my goal of 220. and i'm done.

NO offense, but I call BS on that statement......LOLOLOLOL in a good way.....

lets see, I said that at 225, then at 225 i thought gee, 240 sounds good....then at 240, hell 250 isn't that far......then this cycle I got to almost 280 and thought DAMNNNNN......I bet I can break 300 by next spring......


Trust me.....you will never be satisfied with whatever weight or goal you reach....that is what keeps us going......we are driven

I would just like to see you give your body a GOOD break and only do one or two cycles a year.........

[seriousmass]

I would just like to see you give your body a GOOD break and only do one or two cycles a year.........

That's the plan from now on.

My plan is to cycle from September - December 09... and then I'll be off AAS from January 2010 - September 2010. ( I'm going to be moving to a very, very, far away country next April for a job, so basically, that'll be an 8-9 month break.)

But bro, do you have any advice on the cycle I proposed?? lol. I'd finally like to get some advise on it! haha.

[T-MOS]

by looking this over, i would say it might be better just to do the thrice weekly test prop injections all the way through since you are doing NPP anyway. if i were to make any changes (not to say that the current set-up is terrible), it would look like this:

1-8 tbol 60mg/day
1-14 test prop 500mg/wk
1-14 NPP 450mg/wk
12-15 prohormone
16-19 pct (pct looks perfect the way you have it)

I really dont' like giving advice when I don't think the person should be cycling, and lets face it, you really don't like my opinions much anyway, BUT since your gonna do it anyway

I like what Jiggaman laid out....JMHO

I mean, what are you open for changing?

[seriousmass]

I really dont' like giving advice when I don't think the person should be cycling, and lets face it, you really don't like my opinions much anyway, BUT since your gonna do it anyway

I like what Jiggaman laid out....JMHO

I mean, what are you open for changing?

I actually think my cycle is much better then Jigga's.. I am completely open to change. However, I am not going to be running prop throughout, because I already have Di-test (dosed at 400mg/mL) so I want to use that, so I don't have to shoot so much oil. Also, I want to start the NPP after the prop has kicked in, to ensure no libido problems. I dunno.. I'm more asking if anyone has opinions on different timings (more appropriate for each individual compound).. or has suggestions on switching one compound out for another, etc..

(weeks 1 – 16) di-test @ 500mg ew
(weeks 1 – 4) test-prop @ 500mg ew
(weeks 3 – 14) npp @ 450mg ew
(weeks 3 – 10) t-bol @ 60 ed
(weeks 16 – 19 ) d-drol → prohormone

I mean I don't even think it's a particularly heavy cycle! It's just test/deca /t-bol (very-mild)/ and a legal PH... nothing too terrible in there..

[T-MOS]

I dont' think you will have an issue with libido, even though the di-test and prop are just starting to build up in your blood, you will still have MORE than enough in your system to counter any libido issues from the NPP

but, either way. if it was me, I would start the NPP with the test
what are the esters of the di-test?

I guess timing depends on your purpose for the timing. Why are you starting tbol on week 3?

[seriousmass]

I dont' think you will have an issue with libido, even though the di-test and prop are just starting to build up in your blood, you will still have MORE than enough in your system to counter any libido issues from the NPP

Really? Ok.

I was only going to run the prop for the first 4 weeks to ensure libido isn't effected. Maybe not now if the di-test will do the job.. hmm

but, either way. if it was me, I would start the NPP with the test
what are the esters of the di-test?

The reason I wasn't going to start the NPP right away was because the test is very long esters. I was hoping my blood-concentrations of NPP/test would peak together @ around week 5... so I thought this would be effective

200mg cyp & 200mg deconate per mL. Damnn it's going to be painful hah.

I guess timing depends on your purpose for the timing. Why are you starting tbol on week 3?

I want to start the T-bol concurrent to starting NPP. I hear the synergy between them is second to none.

answers in bold.

[T-MOS]

OK, i can understand that then.

just keep in mind that even though blood plasma levels don't peak or "kick in" til whatever week, the test is still being released into your blood so you will have it flowing from day one. Thats why some people will start to see libido increases from one or two weeks from starting a cycle

but if you feel better waiting, then it won't hurt anything to wait

[kaptainkeezy04]

Bro, I'm 6'2.... 196 is pretty deceiving on someone my height don't you think? and I don't think my upper body is particularly small at all...

Anyways, I do agree with you.. I went a little nuts there. Generally, my posts are very benign and friendly though. I am just tired of having to prove myself on here.

196 is deceiving at your height, at least to real bodybuilders, and your upper body has come along nicely. You have decent arms for your weight, your back will be wide as hell if you keep working on it (i can tell u got great genetics from the back), and you have a good tight waist, but you are not ready for steroids . Are you really that dead set on doing them? We all had to prove ourselves on here through years of quality posts, and you will get there, and be a respected member some day. Anyone can get on here, and learn about steroids, and go around educating people like they are the newest steroid guru. if you really want the respect of others, keep helping out in the steroid section, but get your ass in the workout and diet forum, and help out, as well as learn a thing or two. We all learn something new every day, and the day you think you have learned it all, is the day you stop being a good bodybuilder.

[kaptainkeezy04]

No offense, but after one cycle (let alone 2 or 3) you should be bigger than that, and I would take a step back and examine how you train and eat. I was dumb once, took a bunch of steroids , and went from 165 to 205 at the age of 18 (turned 19 mid cycle), and went all the way up to 215 after my cycle was over, but leaned out at 195, and my height is 5'10". It took years, but I got to 205 at a leaner weight, and with good quality muscle, and it was all natural, and I was very patient, and grinded away week after week. Sorry, I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I am an example of someone who had their little experience with steroids, and has made good quality gains for several years after taking steroids. You don't need to take them. Save your money, and eat like a bad ass. Every time I think of buying roids, or some new fancy supplement, I think of how many eggs, chicken breasts, and steaks I could buy with the money instead. So, why don't you post your diet, training routine, and lifestyle habits, and i GUARANTEE you that everyone would be much more willing to critique your cycle if you are dead set on doing it. My advice would be to stay away from so many compounds at your age. dbol /test/deca is a nice little beginner cycle for someone your age.

[seriousmass]

dbol/test/deca is a nice little beginner cycle for someone your age.

My god.. it's like the blind leading the blind around here...

Thanks for the life story their Kaptain.

Next time before you post.. you should think... reflect.... and then do some freakingresearch. because if you did, you would realize that the next cycle I'm doing is: test /npp (WHICH IS DECA ) / t-bol (WHICH IS MILDER THEN D-BOL)....

oh my. you must feel pretty stupid right now.

Also, that rant was essentially meaningless to me.

I gained 30 pounds in 1/2 a year. and you gained 10 pounds, over the course of multiple years training naturally...mmmhmm..

Moreover, a lot of that was lean muscle mass (how could I have possibly gained that much LMM if I didn't know how to train/diet... please explain that to me)

I know how to eat bro. Trust me.

[seriousmass]

I'm off to bed. I'll check out this thread tomorrow night.

Hopefully ChuckT makes an appearance by then, that coward.

[Reed]

I read my response. Don't hurt my feelings or anything

[kaptainkeezy04]

My god.. it's like the blind leading the blind around here...

Thanks for the life story their Kaptain.

Next time before you post.. you should think... reflect.... and then do some freakingresearch. because if you did, you would realize that the next cycle I'm doing is: test /npp (WHICH IS DECA ) / t-bol (WHICH IS MILDER THEN D-BOL)....

oh my. you must feel pretty stupid right now.

Also, that rant was essentially meaningless to me.

I gained 30 pounds in 1/2 a year. and you gained 10 pounds, over the course of multiple years training naturally...mmmhmm..

Moreover, a lot of that was lean muscle mass (how could I have possibly gained that much LMM if I didn't know how to train/diet... please explain that to me)

I know how to eat bro. Trust me.

I started at 145 at age 18, and now at 23, I have gotten to 205 at 12% bf, with one cycle. did you notice how i said i got leaner when i went from 195 to 205? that means i lost fat, and gained more than 10 pounds of muscle. I don't feel stupid. I stay away from steroids now, so I don't keep up with what you guys are calling deca these days. You say you have done 3 cycles, right? If you are over 6 feet tall, and have done 3 cycles, you have no business weighing 195 at your bodyfat percentage. You need to eat better, train harder, and/or get more rest. Does that explain it for you? And my post was not a rant at all. I complimented you, was respectful, and gave you solid advice. You don't seem to learn anything, so I seem to have wasted my time with you. Can't say I didn't try guys. T-mos, good luck with this guy.

[seriousmass]

Now back to the Original Post, did you get the information you wanted?

(Also, I'm not flaming you. Just helping you out and giving criticism.)

Thats chill bro. Thanks for the comments. I know I could have gotten naturally bigger. But that's in the past, I don't care. It's already happened, I'm not going to dwell on it.

Anyways, regarding my OP... this is my proposed cycle.. would you modify it in any way?

(weeks 1 – 16) di-test @ 500mg ew
(weeks 1 – 4) test-prop @ 500mg ew
(weeks 3 – 14) npp @ 450mg ew
(weeks 3 – 10) t-bol @ 60 ed
(weeks 16 – 19 ) d-drol → prohormone

(keeping in might, i want to start the NPP mid-cycle. and I want to run the T-bol with the NPP concurrently.)

[seriousmass]

I started at 145 at age 18, and now at 23, I have gotten to 205 at 12% bf, with one cycle. did you notice how i said i got leaner when i went from 195 to 205? that means i lost fat, and gained more than 10 pounds of muscle. I don't feel stupid. I stay away from steroids now, so I don't keep up with what you guys are calling deca these days. You say you have done 3 cycles, right? If you are over 6 feet tall, and have done 3 cycles, you have no business weighing 195 at your bodyfat percentage. You need to eat better, train harder, and/or get more rest. Does that explain it for you? And my post was not a rant at all. I complimented you, was respectful, and gave you solid advice. You don't seem to learn anything, so I seem to have wasted my time with you. Can't say I didn't try guys. T-mos, good luck with this guy.

And you have no business giving steroid advice, since you obviously know nothing about it...

lol. Thanks though tips. I appreciate you clearing everything up for me. I'll make sure to only run my "beginners cycle of test/d-bol/deca "

[kaptainkeezy04]

And you have no business giving steroid advice, since you obviously know nothing about it...

lol. Thanks though tips. I appreciate you clearing everything up for me. I'll make sure to only run my "beginners cycle of test/d-bol/deca "

Actually, me just knowing that you shouldn't be taking steroids allows me to conclude that my knowledge of steroids is far superior to yours, and I'm sure everyone will agree to that. And, why are you scratching your head?

[chuckt12345]

My work here is done.

[Dukkit]

i used to be your height and weight

i was small

i didnt use steroids

i ate food

im still small in relativeness to your stats

better body fat then you and better muscle maturity but in ratio to your stats mine are close to the same just on a larger scale

i do think this thread has run its course

cycle more if you wish. but be sure to focus on diet and training more