how does my cycle look

[rabidrhino2]

This will be my first cycle of test ever i have only ever used the prohormone trenadrol and i have never done injectables. How does this cycle look?

weeks 1-12 test e 500 mg/wk
weeks 1-4 dbol 30 mg/day
weeks 10-14 winny 50mg/day

i am taking the winny to cut up at the end of the cycle because i don't won't bodyfat to go out of control as i am already 15%.The fact that i have a tiny waistline and little torso makes fat show on me bad. I am thinking about loosing a little more fat before starting but i freaking hate cutting calories and i am sick of it. I plan to eat everything in site with the exception of sugar and carbs i will probably eat a ton of red meat. currently i am like 204 pounds 6 foot.

For PCT i will be taking clomid after last injection and i will take proviron throughout the whole 14 weeks to prevent bitch tit and turning into a balloon. i plan on dosing proviron at 50mg a day.
Any problems with my plans???

[Phate]

This will be my first cycle of test ever i have only ever used the prohormone trenadrol and i have never done injectables. How does this cycle look?

weeks 1-12 test e 500 mg/wk
weeks 1-4 dbol 30 mg/day
weeks 10-14 winny 50mg/day

i am taking the winny to cut up at the end of the cycle because i don't won't bodyfat to go out of control as i am already 15%.The fact that i have a tiny waistline and little torso makes fat show on me bad. I am thinking about loosing a little more fat before starting but i freaking hate cutting calories and i am sick of it. I plan to eat everything in site with the exception of sugar and carbs i will probably eat a ton of red meat. currently i am like 204 pounds 6 foot.

For PCT i will be taking clomid after last injection and i will take proviron throughout the whole 14 weeks to prevent bitch tit and turning into a balloon. i plan on dosing proviron at 50mg a day.
Any problems with my plans???

we'll get to that, but short answer, yeah

stats?
age
weight
height
bf%
training exp
diet?

[rabidrhino2]

stats
age - 21
weight - like 204 currently
height - 6 foot
bf% - around 15% maybe a little more
training exp - 1 1/2 yrs
diet? - i am cutting currently to get ready for the cycle so i am eating a calorie deficit and lots of lean meats. When bulking i eat a ton of red meat and pretty much everything in sight like 7 big ass meals a day. My problem is i have never been a lean person and my waistline is tiny so when i put on any fat it looks like shit.

[Phate]

stats
age - 21
weight - like 204 currently
height - 6 foot
bf% - around 15% maybe a little more
training exp - 1 1/2 yrs
diet? - i am cutting currently to get ready for the cycle so i am eating a calorie deficit and lots of lean meats. When bulking i eat a ton of red meat and pretty much everything in sight like 7 big ass meals a day. My problem is i have never been a lean person and my waistline is tiny so when i put on any fat it looks like shit.

personally i don't think you need to cycle at all, i'm your age and haven't yet because i know i'm not ready to, btw, as of right now i'm around 5'8, 193, 12% probably, maybe a little higher, i think you can attain your goals through diet alone and i'd be willing to help you with that

could you post a pic with your face edited out so we can see what we're working with? full body would be nice(no nudes, lol)

i'd love to see your cutting diet in detail(macros included)

pct should be nolva/clomid minimum

winny will not "cut" you up, it will bring out musculature/hardness in a person that is at a low bf% already

[G4R]

Have you ever tried a planned diet?

[rabidrhino2]

i don't have a digital camera and my webcam is screwed up or i would post my pics. as far as planned diet when cutting i go low carb no sugar foods such as tuna, chicken, cheese every one in a while, skim milk you get the picture. For bulking i eat every red meat in sight along with lots of sweet potatoes and rice. I don't watch calories until i see that i am gaining fat in the mirror.

my lifts aren't great but considering i have been in for 1 1/2 years i have made huge improvement.
bench-255-7 reps(i don't max)
Squat - 315 - 6 reps(needs work)
dead - 405 - 2 reps

i know i should hold off but i am wanting to try it soooooo bad it's so damn tempting. I figured if i am going to make a stupid decision go informed rather than uninformed

[rabidrhino2]

oh i forgot to explain i am planning on loosing a little bodyfat and going on a slight calorie deficit while on the winnie. I will monitor my weight and bust my ass s i don't loose strength. many people tell me dbol makes you gain tons of waterweight and it would be nice to get that off. My overall goal is to be huge i have a friend that started test e at 18 years old and he is now 6 foot 3 275 pounds. i think it treats people differently depending on how mature you are. I have many people in my gym willing to give me advice and guidance so i don't f up

[Phate]

i don't have a digital camera and my webcam is screwed up or i would post my pics. as far as planned diet when cutting i go low carb no sugar foods such as tuna, chicken, cheese every one in a while, skim milk you get the picture. For bulking i eat every red meat in sight along with lots of sweet potatoes and rice. I don't watch calories until i see that i am gaining fat in the mirror.

my lifts aren't great but considering i have been in for 1 1/2 years i have made huge improvement.
bench-255-7 reps(i don't max)
Squat - 315 - 6 reps(needs work)
dead - 405 - 2 reps

i know i should hold off but i am wanting to try it soooooo bad it's so damn tempting. I figured if i am going to make a stupid decision go informed rather than uninformed

trust me bro i know what you're going through, i've been at this for 4 years and active on this forum for 2 years, i'm still tempted EVERY SINGLE DAY but i know that using now will cause numerous physical problems down the road so i hold off

you only have one life bro, what you do with it is yours but remember this, bodybuilding is a marathon, not a sprint, slow and steady wins everytime

[G4R]

Do you know the type of results you could get by going about this the right way? Im telling you, Diet is the key.

[rabidrhino2]

man i have the diet under control trust me i started off 230 pounds of fatness got down to 175 and now i am 204 and stronger than i have ever been. must be doing something right. when i bulk i eat every 3 hour when cutting every 5 and not big portions. I edited a post above.

[rabidrhino2]

i don't know if i will do them it's a big decision but i am seriously considering it. I am not ever going to stop weightlifting because it is my favorite thing to do but sometimes i get discouraged when the big gorillas on hgh and massive amounts of roids such as my 6,3 bodybuilding friend (who has only been lifting 5 yrs) walk by me.these results are slow as hell naturally though and i bust my ass 6 times a week harder than most people would attempt.I have hurt myself 3 times in 1 1/2 years from trying to go heavy and learning how incredibly slow strength gains are and i am not strong enough. i would like to know if the above cycle is a good cycle and if the pct is good.

[seriousmass]

i would like to know if the above cycle is a good cycle and if the pct is good.

Cycle is fine. I'm bump d-bol dosage up to 40mg. But start out at 30mg if you'd like.

PCT does not look good though. Run it like this:

After your last pill / injection of winstrol :

Clomid: 100/50/50/50
Nolvadex : 40/40/20/20
Proviron : 50/50/50

( These are the mg dosages per day & per week. aka week 1 = 100mg clomid + 40mg nolvadex + 50mg proviron, EACH DAY )

Hope that helps.

P.S. might want to look into an AI like arimidex , and keep it on hand just in case gyno symptoms flare up. Peace.

[rabidrhino2]

thank you very much i don't know if i will cycle quite yet but am thinking about it. Nolvadex is very hard for me to get do you think clomid alone will be fine for pct? is provirin good enough to prevent bitch tit if i take it while on cycle?

[seriousmass]

thank you very much i don't know if i will cycle quite yet but am thinking about it.

umm... cool.. lol. good call.

Nolvadex is very hard for me to get do you think clomid alone will be fine for pct?

No. I would not use only clomid. That would be a seriously sub-par PCT for a three compound cycle. You can order Nolvadex from this website. www.ar-r.com

Is provirin good enough to prevent bitch tit if i take it while on cycle?

I honestly have no idea what this statement means. but NO, It doesn't. Bitch tits / gyno is caused my estrogen build-up / breast-tissue build-up. That's why I suggested using an AI like a-dex. All proviron will do is give you a stiff boner. LOL.

Answers in bold.

[Phate]

thank you very much i don't know if i will cycle quite yet but am thinking about it. Nolvadex is very hard for me to get do you think clomid alone will be fine for pct? is provirin good enough to prevent bitch tit if i take it while on cycle?

seriousmass, i think he's asking about it's estrogen related effects, proviron is 5 alpha reduced so it can't aromatize to estrogen, it also has a high affinity with the aromatase enzyme so it asks as an AI on cycle(though keeping adex on hand would be a good idea nonetheless)

[seriousmass]

seriousmass, i think he's asking about it's estrogen related effects, proviron is 5 alpha reduced so it can't aromatize to estrogen, it also has a high affinity with the aromatase enzyme so it asks as an AI on cycle(though keeping adex on hand would be a good idea nonetheless)

Yeah. Good call. To the OP, you can run proviron throughout the entire cycle, quite a few people elect to follow this protocol. Nevertheless, I'm weary of using it as your primary anti-inhibitory.

If you're running it throughout cycle, use 75 - 100mg each day

If you're just running it during PCT, use 25 - 50mg each day

[rabidrhino2]

so really all needed for pct is liquidex and nolvadex . can you run liquidex while on cycle to prevent gyno? i am guessing you can. Are these liquid forms injectable instead of pill. i have never seen liquid nolvadex before now just pill form. i have my research to do. These medical names are confusing the shit out of me.

[seriousmass]

i have my research to do.

Bingo!

You have a lot to learn bro, and I have sh*t to do. Unfortunately, I don't have time tonight to breast-feed you hahaha. kidding.

but yah, study up.


here I'll point you in the right direction...

Anthony Roberts PCT
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=209758

WarMachine's ~Gyno Prevention, Gyno Treatment, and Letro Reversals Explained
"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

All You Need To Know About Gyno
All you need to know about GYNO.

[rabidrhino2]

i have to say this website you gave me is cheap as dirt for pct material guess because its "research chemicals" (lol)

[Phate]

so really all needed for pct is liquidex and nolvadex .
you dont run arimidex in pct, you'll get estrogen rebound doing this
can you run liquidex while on cycle to prevent gyno? i am guessing you can.
no, arimidex doesn't prevent gyno nor does it help it once it starts
Are these liquid forms injectable instead of pill. i have never seen liquid nolvadex before now just pill form.
no, they are oral
i have my research to do.
yes you do, if you are dead set on cycling i can give you a list of threads to research
These medical names are confusing the shit out of me.

lol, but they're so fun^^^^^

[ninesecz]

ZA Your eatinfg schedule should not change whether or not you ar bulking / ctting. only the amount fo calories fat/ carb / pro will change. Should always eat every 2-3.5 hours regardless. and you said in the OP that you have a small waistline and every time you gain a little fat it shows?
Why would you ever be trying to gain a little fat When I am on a bulker I try try very very very hard to make sure I do not gain 1oz of fat if I can help it!! If you are thinking that during a bulker you are wanting to gain fat, then your diet still need a lot of work. and to be honest Just because you were heavier and higher in BF now you are leaner does not exactly mean you are doing something right. My sister used to e heavy now she is skinny and a size one. Did she do it right? NOT EVEN CLOSE. But she is skinny. so do not base your gains / losses on how your dies is. Please post your diet so we can pick it apart for you! If yhis is not correct your use of Steroids is not going to do much anyway!

[rabidrhino2]

yeah man any help i can get i know i will start after 21 but i might give it another year of training and research i might go ahead and stock pile some stuff and put it somewhere while i have a good source to get all of this stuff from. my friends are offering to help right now and are giving me some cheap prices. i am pretty sure steroids don't have a expiration date sooner than a year do they?

[Phate]

yeah man any help i can get i know i will start after 21 but i might give it another year of training and research i might go ahead and stock pile some stuff and put it somewhere while i have a good source to get all of this stuff from. my friends are offering to help right now and are giving me some cheap prices. i am pretty sure steroids don't have a expiration date sooner than a year do they?

3-5 years

[rabidrhino2]

ok man here is my bulking diet but i am not sure if the calories are correct for my caloric intake
7am - 8 whole eggs (boiled) , glass of skim milk, orange juice, oatmill

10am - 4 whole eggs (boiled), chicken breast, peanut butter sandwich on wheat bread

1pm - steak of some type, two slices of 2% cheese, sweet potato

4pm - glass of skim milk, hamburger, workout after then liquid amino acid. after workout i eat a shitload of meat without caring about calories

7pm - some type of steak, brocolli , carrots, maybe some fruit

10pm - chicken, 2%cottage cheese

middle of night snack - most of the time chicken with vegetables.


I have followed a plan such as this before and didn't gain much fat i am sure i could perfect the calories in no time but while on AAS the caloric intake will be much higher. i am not a big protein shake fan but i eat protein bars all the time sometimes i like to eat turkey or chicken wraps. My man focus of this cycle is gaining size i want to me very very large just not a complete fatass. I can get the fat off later using the keto diet. Muscle is my main focus.

[rabidrhino2]

i am not sure how effective you guys think prohormones are but on the trenadrol cycle i did i gained around 30 pounds in a month and i although i gained a little fat my bench jumped up nearly 50 pounds (no bs)

[Phate]

ok man here is my bulking diet but i am not sure if the calories are correct for my caloric intake
7am - 8 whole eggs (boiled) , glass of skim milk, orange juice, oatmill
why all the fat from the yolk, it's not needed, skim milk and orange juice? liquid sugar and simple sugars at that, how much oatmeal?
10am - 4 whole eggs (boiled), chicken breast, peanut butter sandwich on wheat bread
again with the fat, fish oil would be so much better, how much chicken? why at more fat from the PB and add a starchy carb?
1pm - steak of some type, two slices of 2% cheese, sweet potato
i hope the steak is really lean, but i doubt it unless it's sirloin or london broil, cheese huh? saturated fat from the steak plus that, ewwww, lol, sweet potato i like
4pm - glass of skim milk, hamburger, workout after then liquid amino acid. after workout i eat a shitload of meat without caring about calories
why milk and hamburger?!? eat a ton of meat huh? you know that eating over 70-80g of protein in a meal is pointless as it can't all be used and just goes to energy(fat)
7pm - some type of steak, brocolli , carrots, maybe some fruit
no fruit or carrots, both have simple sugars you don't need
10pm - chicken, 2%cottage cheese
not bad
middle of night snack - most of the time chicken with vegetables.


I have followed a plan such as this before and didn't gain much fat i am sure i could perfect the calories in no time but while on AAS the caloric intake will be much higher. i am not a big protein shake fan but i eat protein bars all the time sometimes i like to eat turkey or chicken wraps. My man focus of this cycle is gaining size i want to me very very large just not a complete fatass. I can get the fat off later using the keto diet. Muscle is my main focus.

why? they contain low quality protein(concentrate and casein caseinate), low quality carbs and palm kernal oil(only saturated fat that's liquid at room temperature), not to mention binders and fillers

make your own if you want a protein bar

[rabidrhino2]

i used to make my own with oats, skim milk, optimum nutrition 24 hour release protein shake( only thing i use it for lol) and natural peanut butter but i started putting on weight as it was like 600 cals in a single bar.

Could you help me a little with my diet I know it's not perfect and needs improvement. I do like to eat a ton of meat before i was drinking lots of protein shakes and now i drink none and replace them with red meat. I am seeing much better strength gains. it's not even comparible thats why i stopped with all the supplemental bs.

[rabidrhino2]

thank you very much for your time and help.

[Phate]

i used to make my own with oats, optimum nutrition 24 hour release protein shake( only thing i use it for lol) and natural peanut butter but i started putting on weight as it was like 600 cals in a single bar.

Could you help me a little with my diet I know it's not perfect and needs improvement. I do like to eat a ton of meat before i was drinking lots of protein shakes and now i drink none and replace them with red meat. I am seeing much better strength gains. it's not even comparible thats why i stopped with all the supplemental bs.

i thought you'd never ask, lol, i'd love too

k, first i need some info though

first off write down everything you eat tomorrow, post with the macros for each meal and the calories for each meal as well as the total macros and calories for the day

after you do that use this formula to figure out your TDEE and be honest about the activity multiplier

BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )

# f you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
# If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
# If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
# If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
# If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9




finally give us some specific goals for this diet, include what you would like to accomplish with it, how often you can eat, any allergies, etc...

[rabidrhino2]

ok i will post all of this tomorrow but at the moment i am cutting with very very few calories. it will probably be very late when i post so you might want to view it later but it will be there. i am guessing i should work on loosing bodyfat before using AAS. i am sick of trying to loose fat it's not my thing i like food too much.

[rabidrhino2]

i am going to bed be back later thanks for the help