explain to me please

[Big]

I wasn't angry, I hope you didn't think my comment was meant as derrogitory. I love to eat a good steak, I have no idea how long it takes to be fully digested and at exactly what rate the nutrients are utilized. I don't really care either. That's not saying someone who is interested in such things is wrong. I do think you are off on some assumptions, but at the rate you're pursuing the info you'll get it dialed in. I could have told you that 250mg/ed of a long ester is way too much for most users, I don't think anyone here would disagree of that. 250mg/ed of prop is way too much as well, for most users.

[powerliftmike]

Twist, you are making things very confusing. If you want to talk build up and peak levels...then test prop is 2.5-3wks and test cyp is 5.5-6wks into cycle. If its that damn confusing to you just stick with test suspension

[Twist]

it does not take 5-6 weeks to build up peak levels. at 100mgs ed it takes 60 days to build up peak levels.

propionate takes 21 days to build up peak levels. actually a little longer.

[Twist]

I sent my chart to my friends and they said I am correct. to inject 250mgs 2x a week is way crazier than even 200mgs of propionate ED.

the only reason we will get better (or bigger) responses from the propionate is because our bodies do not only react to the testosterone but also to the ester.

[stpete]

Interesting....

[Big]

I sent my chart to my friends and they said I am correct. to inject 250mgs 2x a week is way crazier than even 200mgs of propionate ED.

the only reason we will get better (or bigger) responses from the propionate is because our bodies do not only react to the testosterone but also to the ester.

what cycles have these friends run?

[CHAP]

Twist has lost his mind!!!

[TractionIssues]

Twist you really have no clue what you are talking about, lol. LISTEN, TEST IS TEST!!! And 700mg of test can only = 700mg OF TEST!!!! You really are having a hard time understanding. You are all ****ed up with the ester thing and you are starting to think that it ends up equalling more just because you are calculating it wrong. But when you make test, and you use say 2 grams to make a vial lets say, there is 2 grams of TEST. Either way you are only putting in THAT MUCH IN YOUR BODY! The esters will only decide how long it takes to release, but it will still stabilize exactly like a short ester or whatever... The fact is even, that the peak in long esters is even lower than the peak in short esters, not to mention ester space, so you are COMPLETELY off with your calculations. With the long ester you keep seeming to calculate the release and not the dissipation...

[TractionIssues]

I sent my chart to my friends and they said I am correct. to inject 250mgs 2x a week is way crazier than even 200mgs of propionate ED.

the only reason we will get better (or bigger) responses from the propionate is because our bodies do not only react to the testosterone but also to the ester.

And rofl, no the body has absolutely no response to esters, lmao...

[Twist]

And rofl, no the body has absolutely no response to esters, lmao...

Do You have anything to back it this up? My "family friend" says that anytime you bind testosterone to something all of the calculations are different and the body reacts to not only the testosterone but the ester also.

. But when you make test, and you use say 2 grams to make a vial lets say, there is 2 grams of TEST.

IF YOU WAIT FOR THE FIRST SHOT TO VACATE YOUR SYSTEM THEN SHOOT ANOTHER ONE THEN YES, WHAT YOU INJECT IS WHAT IS IN YOUR BODY. HOWEVER IF YOU INJECT WELL BEFORE THE FIRST SHOT HAS LEFT YOUR BODY THEN THERE IS MORE IN YOUR BODY. JUST BECAUSE YOU INJECT 100MGS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THERE IS ONLY 100MGS LEFT IN YOUR BODY. YOUR BODY DOES NOT PUSH THE OLD TEST OUT BECAUSE YOU INJECTED A NEW SHOT.

Either way you are only putting in THAT MUCH IN YOUR BODY! The esters will only decide how long it takes to release, but it will still stabilize exactly like a short ester or whatever...
LONG ESTERS DO NOT STABILIZE JUST LIKE SHORT ESTERS

what cycles have these friends run?

I am talking to a "family friend" who works with these compounds on the molecular level. they work with these compounds in labs, and do the studies that we read about months later. I can only talk briefly and it is very hard for me to understand the points because I do not understand all of the phd lingo. its confusing. but I asked about injecting cypionate 250mgs 2x a week and they said that that is a hell of a lot and a rediculous amount.

day 1= 100mgs
day 2= 100mgs plus remaining from first shot
day 3= 100mgs plus remaining from first and second shot
day 4= 100mgs plus remaining from first and second and third shot
at this point you have injected 400mgs, but there is not 400mgs in your system. there is less. keep going and eventually the amount left surpasses the amount injected.

day 12
this is what is remaining (roughly) from each injection in the last 12 days.
12=100mgs
11=95.4546
10=90.9092
9=86.3638
8=81.8184
7=77.273
6=72.7276
5=68.1822
4=63.6368
3=59.0914
2=54.546
1=50mgs cypionates active half life. first injection has only 50mgs left. however since then you have injected 11 more times.

[TractionIssues]

Do You have anything to back it this up? My "family friend" says that anytime you bind testosterone to something all of the calculations are different and the body reacts to not only the testosterone but the ester also.




I am talking to a "family friend" who works with these compounds on the molecular level. they work with these compounds in labs, and do the studies that we read about months later. I can only talk briefly and it is very hard for me to understand the points because I do not understand all of the phd lingo. its confusing. but I asked about injecting cypionate 250mgs 2x a week and they said that that is a hell of a lot and a rediculous amount.

day 1= 100mgs
day 2= 100mgs plus remaining from first shot
day 3= 100mgs plus remaining from first and second shot
day 4= 100mgs plus remaining from first and second and third shot
at this point you have injected 400mgs, but there is not 400mgs in your system. there is less. keep going and eventually the amount left surpasses the amount injected.

day 12
this is what is remaining (roughly) from each injection in the last 12 days.
12=100mgs
11=95.4546
10=90.9092
9=86.3638
8=81.8184
7=77.273
6=72.7276
5=68.1822
4=63.6368
3=59.0914
2=54.546
1=50mgs cypionates active half life. first injection has only 50mgs left. however since then you have injected 11 more times.

Lol... I'm sorry I give up, you obviously don't seem to understand. But here how bout you look at this and specifically the chart at the bottom of the post.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...oid+half+lifes

[TractionIssues]

Do You have anything to back it this up? My "family friend" says that anytime you bind testosterone to something all of the calculations are different and the body reacts to not only the testosterone but the ester also.




I am talking to a "family friend" who works with these compounds on the molecular level. they work with these compounds in labs, and do the studies that we read about months later. I can only talk briefly and it is very hard for me to understand the points because I do not understand all of the phd lingo. its confusing. but I asked about injecting cypionate 250mgs 2x a week and they said that that is a hell of a lot and a rediculous amount.

day 1= 100mgs
day 2= 100mgs plus remaining from first shot
day 3= 100mgs plus remaining from first and second shot
day 4= 100mgs plus remaining from first and second and third shot
at this point you have injected 400mgs, but there is not 400mgs in your system. there is less. keep going and eventually the amount left surpasses the amount injected.

day 12
this is what is remaining (roughly) from each injection in the last 12 days.
12=100mgs
11=95.4546
10=90.9092
9=86.3638
8=81.8184
7=77.273
6=72.7276
5=68.1822
4=63.6368
3=59.0914
2=54.546
1=50mgs cypionates active half life. first injection has only 50mgs left. however since then you have injected 11 more times.

Wait a sec do you think that what is there is how much you have in your system at the time!? ROFL.... I just found your problem...

[Twist]

how does that not prove my point exactly? you inject 900mgs a week but on day 75 you have over 3000 mgs active mgs in your system. I only went up to day 60. and I estimated less than 2000 mgs. this proves my point.

[TractionIssues]

how does that not prove my point exactly? you inject 900mgs a week but on day 75 you have over 3000 mgs active mgs in your system. I only went up to day 60. and I estimated less than 2000 mgs. this proves my point.

Rofl no it doesn't... Listen the problem with your calculation is that you think that there is actually that much free test in your system each of those weeks. Which is why your totally wrong.

See this?

12=100mgs < This here, NOTHING HAS BEEN CONVERTED YET!
11=95.4546 < See here? BARELY 5mg HAVE BEEN CONVERTED HERE!
10=90.9092
9=86.3638
8=81.8184
7=77.273
6=72.7276
5=68.1822
4=63.6368
3=59.0914
2=54.546
1=50mgs < And here? Over the span of 12 days, 50mg WAS RELEASED!

You were calculating this as if you had those full amounts in your system each of those days, which is rediculous, you would have to add up all those mgs together, and in the end it would be like you got 1000mg worth of test from 100mg, it makes no sense my friend...

[Twist]

Wait a sec do you think that what is there is how much you have in your system at the time!? ROFL.... I just found your problem...

look at the graph that you showed me. it looks just like mine. on the graph it says "total active aas left in body" and it says 2000 to 3000 mgs.

[TractionIssues]

look at the graph that you showed me. it looks just like mine. on the graph it says "total active aas left in body" and it says 2000 to 3000 mgs.

What is your point? It would be the same if it was Prop, and any other ester for that matter.

[Twist]

What is your point? It would be the same if it was Prop, and any other ester for that matter.

no because propionate would have left the body well before 90days. actually there is a negligible amount of prop left after 21 days if injected 100mgs one time.

[TractionIssues]

Okay well whatever, there must be some mental blockage somewhere... lol. Just keep thinking cyp IS 10x MORE POWERFUL THAN PROP!! Prop must be magical then because people seem to get better results from it... iunno must be magic!

[Immortal Soldier]

Twist, how old are you?

[Twist]

I am 21 why?

[Immortal Soldier]

I am 21 why?

Now that explains everything...

(I guessed it from your picture)

From all your babbling, I forgot what your argument is so enlighten me and I will help you understand.

[TractionIssues]

Now that explains everything...

(I guessed it from your picture)

From all your babbling, I forgot what your argument is so enlighten me and I will help you understand.

Lol good luck.

[Twist]

Now that explains everything...

(I guessed it from your picture)

From all your babbling, I forgot what your argument is so enlighten me and I will help you understand.

thanks bro. I believe you are 21 also. My argument changed over the course of the discussion.
but it began as this: i like running 100mgs ed of propionate . what is the amount of long estered test that would produce the same blood levels.

[TractionIssues]

thanks bro. I believe you are 21 also. My argument changed over the course of the discussion.
but it began as this: i like running 100mgs ed of propionate. what is the amount of long estered test that would produce the same blood levels.

700mg/week of Prop is equal to about 800mg/week of cyp.

[marcus300]

ok well the highest possible test in your system when using prop at 100mg ed is 300mgs. what about when using 500mgs a week of cyp or en? and I think that the amount of concentration between the two is negligible.

Ive got to say you give a asprin a headache!

There is so much bullshit within this thread from various people its untrue!

I really don't know where to start, but let me try!

Twist, why would you think if you injected 100mgs ED of prop, there is only ever 300mgs at the highest??

Now think about it before you answer, think about the half life,build up and ester............you will answer your own question if you think about it.

[stpete]

He threw me way off with post #44.

[Big]

I am talking to a "family friend" who works with these compounds on the molecular level. they work with these compounds in labs, and do the studies that we read about months later. I can only talk briefly and it is very hard for me to understand the points because I do not understand all of the phd lingo. its confusing. but I asked about injecting cypionate 250mgs 2x a week and they said that that is a hell of a lot and a rediculous amount.

exactly the answer I expected, they never even ran a basic cycle yet they are telling you what is "rediculous". I've done this for a long, long time, I've used a LOT of prop, enth, cyp, etc, and I know exactly how I feel and grow on each. I don't need some guy in a lab coat theorizing on what is happening in my body, especially whan they are obviously incorrect and not factoring in all aspects of the compound. If they think 500mg/week of a long ester is rediculous, then I have run cycles that are super-mega-rediculous by their standards. What I can tell you is that 500mg/week prop affects me pretty much the same as 500mg/week of a long ester. the kick-in time and pct start time are different, otherwise they are remarkably close. the gains, libido, feeling, are all very similar. you don't have to take my word for it, but I can tell you that your assumptions are way off base. I'm a bit curious why at 21 you're cruising on 700mg/week prop, did your friend also recommend that?

[alpmaster]

Ugh dude, I think you should take a step back from all of this. You have an extremely wrong understanding of test, esters, and half-lives, are running it at high dosages, not even doing PCTs, and getting advice from a family friend.

[Dukkit]

whoa

this thread is makin my brain hurt
i have to leave

[Immortal Soldier]

thanks bro. I believe you are 21 also. My argument changed over the course of the discussion.
but it began as this: i like running 100mgs ed of propionate. what is the amount of long estered test that would produce the same blood levels.

Yes, I am 21 years old as well.

Ok your arugument is if I was running 100mgs ED of prop how much would I need to take to produce the same (roughly) blood levels?

Alright 100mgs ED of = 700mgs/week of test prop

To get around the same effects you would have to take about 750mgs of test-e/week (factoring in ester weight)

Though you could run 700mg of test-e and you would still be getting the same effects, its not like 50mg is going to make that much of a difference.

This was how i was taught and brought up.

[TractionIssues]

I even just noticed the chart he had was backwards...



12=100mgs
11=95.4546
10=90.9092
9=86.3638
8=81.8184
7=77.273
6=72.7276
5=68.1822
4=63.6368
3=59.0914
2=54.546
1=50mgs

Why do the numbers go down backwards and the amount in mg goes down also, this makes no sense.

[Twist]

that is each shot in order. so for example you just shot the first one today and you have 100mgs left in your system. you shot the 11th yesterday and there is 95.4546 left in your system. and it continues on to the first shot which has 50mgs left.

[Twist]

the problem with your calculation is that you think that there is actually that much free test in your system each of those weeks. Which is why your totally wrong.

See this?

12=100mgs < This here, NOTHING HAS BEEN CONVERTED YET!
11=95.4546 < See here? BARELY 5mg HAVE BEEN CONVERTED HERE!
10=90.9092
9=86.3638
8=81.8184
7=77.273
6=72.7276
5=68.1822
4=63.6368
3=59.0914
2=54.546
1=50mgs < And here? Over the span of 12 days, 50mg WAS RELEASED!

You were calculating this as if you had those full amounts in your system each of those days

I believe this is my error. many other things about this post is right. I just need to talk to somebody who is more informed. I asked someone and they said 700mgs of propionate does not = 700mgs of a long ester because when injected 2x a week the long ester continues to build while the short ester exits relatively quickly. I need more info.

[Twist]

Ugh dude, I think you should take a step back from all of this. You have an extremely wrong understanding of test, esters, and half-lives, are running it at high dosages, not even doing PCTs, and getting advice from a family friend.

well why don't you ****ing enlighten me then since you appear to have so much to offer? what are your blood levels when injecting 700mgs of long ester test ed? if you say 700mgs or 70% of that because the ester takes up space blah blah blah your wrong. I understand the way it is explained in the threads. I just do not think it is correct. and I have talked to a couple of people who know a hell of a lot more than you or me and they say I am correct in many aspects. I just need more help from them. But if you have all of the answers then please share and save me a lot of trouble.

[TractionIssues]

Your problem is that you are not calculating the half life of prop the correct way, Prop has not completely left your system in 3 days my friend.

[Twist]

exactly the answer I expected, they never even ran a basic cycle yet they are telling you what is "rediculous". I've done this for a long, long time, I've used a LOT of prop, enth, cyp, etc, and I know exactly how I feel and grow on each. I don't need some guy in a lab coat theorizing on what is happening in my body, especially whan they are obviously incorrect and not factoring in all aspects of the compound. If they think 500mg/week of a long ester is rediculous, then I have run cycles that are super-mega-rediculous by their standards. What I can tell you is that 500mg/week prop affects me pretty much the same as 500mg/week of a long ester. the kick-in time and pct start time are different, otherwise they are remarkably close. the gains, libido, feeling, are all very similar. you don't have to take my word for it, but I can tell you that your assumptions are way off base. I'm a bit curious why at 21 you're cruising on 700mg/week prop, did your friend also recommend that?

I am not cruising on 700mgs of prop. its my cycle, prop only 100mgs everyday.

and There is not much of a difference (in feeling and gains) from 600mgs to 1000mgs say many people... does that mean that your blood levels are the same?

I have ran cycles of long ester at 600mgs a day and I felt like a god. on prop ed at 100mgs I feel way less. Same source human grade. I am just curious about this and want to get an answer.

[Immortal Soldier]

My question is why the fvck do you care so much? Seriously, you are thinking that somehow you trying to prove your incorrect ways is going to open a portal and bring about some major change. It wouldn't make a difference either way in gains.

[TractionIssues]

I am not cruising on 700mgs of prop. its my cycle, prop only 100mgs everyday.

and There is not much of a difference (in feeling and gains) from 600mgs to 1000mgs say many people... does that mean that your blood levels are the same?

I have ran cycles of long ester at 600mgs a day and I felt like a god. on prop ed at 100mgs I feel way less. Same source human grade. I am just curious about this and want to get an answer.

If you feel it less you are definitely doing something different, or your gear is underdosed, because with prop I feel it like a hammer after the second day and I wanna bone every piece of meat I see. With enth I didn't feel it till a few weeks in and peak libido definitely didn't feel as strong.

[Twist]

Your problem is that you are not calculating the half life of prop the correct way, Prop has not completely left your system in 3 days my friend.

I know it takes almost a month when injected with 100mgs. i said that a couple of times.

i need to know at what rate does the ester release the testosterone ... like 5mgs a day etc. But because this is person specific and everybody reacts differently to everything, there is no specific answer. I think the only way is to get bw done all throughout a cycle. But like big said, i want to know at what rate my body digests the steak, some don't care. but I don't care enough to go to those lengths.

[Twist]

If you feel it less you are definitely doing something different, or your gear is underdosed, because with prop I feel it like a hammer after the second day and I wanna bone every piece of meat I see. With enth I didn't feel it till a few weeks in and peak libido definitely didn't feel as strong.

no way I am doing anything wrong. but people react to different esters in different ways. this is why it is so difficult.