Novice cycle § #2-4 - any experience?

[The Locomotive]

Hi guys!

I've been doing a few cycles using only 500mg of testo a week for 8-12 weeks. The last cycle barely gave any results, so I guess I have to up the doses a little.

I was thinking about doing the novice cycle # 2-4 that I found on this site.
(testo cyp 500 mg a week + Equipoise 400mg a week).

Do any of you guys have any experience with this?
I'd like to increase my deadlift about 30lbs and my bench about 20lbs using a 12 week cycle. I've gotten these results once before using only 500mgs a week of testo, as mentioned. Can I expect similar results with this cycle?

[ninesecz]

Wow! i think you are doing something very very wrong! I could easilt increase my bench and deadlift 20-50# in 12-14 weeks without going anywhere ner a steroid ! I am doing 500mg of test a week right now and if my bench does not go from 370# to over 450# by the end of the cycle, I will feel that something went wrong! You better start looking closely at your diet cause you have something "off"

[T-MOS]

DIET determines gains MORE than steroids do. Then its Training, then rest, THEN and only then come the steroids to help out.

I would NOT do that cycle you suggest.

post your diet. what a typical days food intake is with times you eat and let us FIX the problem instead of just throwing more steroids at it

[boarderpro1]

T-Mos about every thread I read that someone mentions Equipoise you seem against it any reason or personal preference.

My opinion Loco I would use 400mg deca instead but get all your other stuff in check before hand. You should be expecting 50-80lb gains or more on your lifts dude not 20-30.

[The Locomotive]

Wow! i think you are doing something very very wrong! I could easilt increase my bench and deadlift 20-50# in 12-14 weeks without going anywhere ner a steroid! I am doing 500mg of test a week right now and if my bench does not go from 370# to over 450# by the end of the cycle, I will feel that something went wrong! You better start looking closely at your diet cause you have something "off"

Well, I benched about 400lbs (raw) and increased it to about 420. I was sick the last two weeks and this made me loose a lot of strength, too. Looking at the lifts I had before getting sick, my 1RM would probably have been about 430 had I not gotten sick.
Increasing your 1RM from 400 to 430 is quite different from increasing it from, say, 300 to 330.
Expecting an increase of 80 lbs on 500 mgs of testo seems extreme, though.


As for my diet, I'm taking in about 400 grams of protein a day. Not too sure about the carbs, but I'm getting a lot of healthy fat from cod liver oil, sunflower oil and peanuts. I'm more concerned about strength than body building, that's why I haven't counted the number of calories I eat per day, I just eat a lot of meat, chicken eggs, peanuts, oils and protein and carb supplements.

[The Locomotive]

T-Mos about every thread I read that someone mentions Equipoise you seem against it any reason or personal preference.

My opinion Loco I would use 400mg deca instead but get all your other stuff in check before hand. You should be expecting 50-80lb gains or more on your lifts dude not 20-30.

Thanks for the tip, but the reason I mentioned 20-30 is that this is the very minimum. 50 lbs increase in the bench, and 80lbs in both the deadlift and squat would be even better, of course.

[Twist]

T-Mos about every thread I read that someone mentions Equipoise you seem against it any reason or personal preference.

My opinion Loco I would use 400mg deca instead but get all your other stuff in check before hand. You should be expecting 50-80lb gains or more on your lifts dude not 20-30.

I do not understand why deca is a better choice than equipoise. eq is not even as close to as harsh and many many people (including myself) love the compound. I say try eq before deca.

[T-MOS]

T-Mos about every thread I read that someone mentions Equipoise you seem against it any reason or personal preference.

My opinion Loco I would use 400mg deca instead but get all your other stuff in check before hand. You should be expecting 50-80lb gains or more on your lifts dude not 20-30.

My personal experience with it, tells me it SUCKS for me. I have tried it several times at several doses and found it lacking compared to other compounds that can be used instead

but in this case its because I don't think the OP is using steroids correctly and doesn't need to be adding MORE just because he is not seeing gains. I believe there is another reason for his lack of gains and that should be addressed before adding in more compounds or raising doses JMHO

[The Locomotive]

My personal experience with it, tells me it SUCKS for me. I have tried it several times at several doses and found it lacking compared to other compounds that can be used instead

but in this case its because I don't think the OP is using steroids correctly and doesn't need to be adding MORE just because he is not seeing gains. I believe there is another reason for his lack of gains and that should be addressed before adding in more compounds or raising doses JMHO

I'm eating a lot of proteins, doing serious and well tested powerlifting routines and I can lift about 700 in the squat, 630 in the DL (not enough) (with single ply IPF gear) and about 420 in the bench (raw).

I'm also getting at least 8 hours sleep per night. I did have some trouble with my sleep quality the last time I tried 500mgs of testo a week with bad results (as I have a sleeping disorder, and some SNAFU happened that I have now taken care of). Could it be that the decrease in sleep quality was the reason I went from good results on a cycle to very bad ones the next time I tried it, or is it rather that I need to increase my dosage in order to get better results. 500mg testo a week isn't really all that much.

[T-MOS]

I'm eating a lot of proteins, doing serious and well tested powerlifting routines and I can lift about 700 in the squat, 630 in the DL (not enough) (with single ply IPF gear) and about 420 in the bench (raw).

I'm also getting at least 8 hours sleep per night. I did have some trouble with my sleep quality the last time I tried 500mgs of testo a week with bad results (as I have a sleeping disorder, and some SNAFU happened that I have now taken care of). Could it be that the decrease in sleep quality was the reason I went from good results on a cycle to very bad ones the next time I tried it, or is it rather that I need to increase my dosage in order to get better results. 500mg testo a week isn't really all that much.

OK, telling me you eat a lot of protein and not sure of your carbs and all that other stuff tells me you have NO IDEA what your diet is.

I GET THAT, BUT

DIET is 89% of whether or not you make gains, so you need to break down EACH MEAL for me

what you had each meal, protein, carbs , and fats

IF you can't do that, then you are in trouble as you will have no clue what you need to eat in order to have a successful cylce

you should know your calories each day, or close to it, and the breakdown of Proteins, carbs, and fat grams each meal


500mgs/week of test is PLENTY to grow on, I have been at this for 10 years and seldom have I even gone over 600-650 mgs/week of test

[The Locomotive]

OK, telling me you eat a lot of protein and not sure of your carbs and all that other stuff tells me you have NO IDEA what your diet is.

I've never been into body building, I just wanted to be strong and huge (without caring if I got fat or not) so I've just made sure to get enough proteins and then just.....eat (or rather put more and more stuff into my protein shakes) until I gained weight.

Right now I've done some cardio and cut down on the carbs and lost about 20lbs of body weight. To prevent my strength from dropping too far I increased my food intake and right now my food intake equals what I expend, as my weight has been rather stable for two weeks. This is what I'm typically eating right now:

Breakfast
----------
- A bowl of cereal (don't know how to translate it to English, but its something made out of oat and rye that I mix with skimmed milk).

- Glass of milk with about 10 grams of protein powder

Before lunch
-------------
-0,5 liters of protein shake in skimmed milk containing 40 gram of protein powder, 20 grams of carbo powder and some sunflower oil (I just pour some in there )

Lunch
------
Chicken and juice (apple or orange).
I'm guessing the chicken weighs about 300-400 grams.

Before training
----------------
0,5 liters of protein shake (same as before)

During training
--------------
- 0,5 liters of protein shake (same as before)
- Water mixed with about 20 grams of carbohydrate powder

After training
-----------
- A plate containing a cutlet, a handful of vegetables and some rice (don't know the exact weight)

- Water mixed with 20 grams of carbo powder and creatine

- 0, 5 liters of protein shake (same as before)


Before going to bed
---------------------
- 80 grams of proteins mixed with water
- Then I just eat peanuts until I'm full, plain and simple.

In the weekends I usually drink 1,5 liters of cola and a pound of candy for carb loading (and because I deserve it, god dammit! ). Other than that, I don't eat any junk food (except for the occasional pizza, also just in the weekends).

you should know your calories each day, or close to it, and the breakdown of Proteins, carbs, and fat grams each meal

My philosophy has been to eat relatively clean and just increase or decrease the amount depending on whether I want to gain or lose mass. The point is that I absolutely HATE to eat and I get full very quickly. I increase my body weight from about 270lbs to 300lbs by stuffing myself, but I also got fat in the process and hated all the eating.

The good thing is that I have no problems drinking huge amounts of protein shakes, so most of my calorie intake comes from that.

500mgs/week of test is PLENTY to grow on, I have been at this for 10 years and seldom have I even gone over 600-650 mgs/week of test

I remember asking a former continental PL champion how much roids he advised for a first cycle. The maniac suggested something equal to a gram of testo a week!
When I hear what guys competing in international strongman competition do, I hear that they bridge with 500 mg testo a week, if not more.

But hey, if I can increase my size and strength substantially with only 500mgs of week, then I'm all for it. Why put your body through more roids than necessary, right?

By the way, have you taken a look at the intermediate and experienced cycles listed on the front page of this page? Those doses are HUGE!


I think that my main problem might be my sleeping disorder. When it acted up I could not increase my strength one f-ing iota no matter what I did. When the treatment works, my strenght soared, only to platau like hell when it started acting up again.

P.S: When I say I want to increase my strength X amount of lbs, I mean that I want my 1RM personal best to increase by that amount. So if I've been dieting or been injured and my strength has dropped by Y lbs, it means I want to increase X+Y, so 30 lbs can mean regaining, say 30lbs plus adding another 30lbs.

Thanks for any and all help!

[ninesecz]

I dont know, people must just not get te gains I get from AAS
no, 60-80# gain on my max bench will not even e very hard to obtain! 5# gain a week on a near perfect diet, 4 weeks of drol, and 12-14 weeks of test? that is only 5# on my bench in a week! Maybe I just get a lot better results than most! The last have asses cycle I did was of tren for 7 weeks 4 years ago and i gained 45# in 7 weeks, I then went from 375-425# bench in 8 weeks of just test! I either repond better than most or most are not doing something right! When i cycle, I make sure my diet, supplements, and nutrients are as close to perfect as I can get them! I want to get the best results I can possibly get! I

[T-MOS]

your current diet is VERY lacking if you want to make gains !!

I suggest getting into the diet section here and letting the pros there help you design a diet that will help you grow. That is where your problems are

[Matt]

I've never been into body building, I just wanted to be strong and huge (without caring if I got fat or not) so I've just made sure to get enough proteins and then just.....eat (or rather put more and more stuff into my protein shakes) until I gained weight.

Right now I've done some cardio and cut down on the carbs and lost about 20lbs of body weight. To prevent my strength from dropping too far I increased my food intake and right now my food intake equals what I expend, as my weight has been rather stable for two weeks. This is what I'm typically eating right now:

Breakfast
----------
- A bowl of cereal (don't know how to translate it to English, but its something made out of oat and rye that I mix with skimmed milk).

- Glass of milk with about 10 grams of protein powder

Before lunch
-------------
-0,5 liters of protein shake in skimmed milk containing 40 gram of protein powder, 20 grams of carbo powder and some sunflower oil (I just pour some in there )

Lunch
------
Chicken and juice (apple or orange).
I'm guessing the chicken weighs about 300-400 grams.

Before training
----------------
0,5 liters of protein shake (same as before)

During training
--------------
- 0,5 liters of protein shake (same as before)
- Water mixed with about 20 grams of carbohydrate powder

After training
-----------
- A plate containing a cutlet, a handful of vegetables and some rice (don't know the exact weight)

- Water mixed with 20 grams of carbo powder and creatine

- 0, 5 liters of protein shake (same as before)


Before going to bed
---------------------
- 80 grams of proteins mixed with water
- Then I just eat peanuts until I'm full, plain and simple.

In red are the only real foods you are eating lol, you need a complete rethink..

[The Locomotive]

In red are the only real foods you are eating lol, you need a complete rethink..

Yeah, I know, like I said I hate to eat. That's why I try to get at least 2500 calories from shakes. Is it really that big a deal if the calories come from shakes and supplements instead of "real" foods?

If it is, then I'll change things up, but shakes are so more convenient.

[HIITB$]

I dont know, people must just not get te gains I get from AAS
no, 60-80# gain on my max bench will not even e very hard to obtain! 5# gain a week on a near perfect diet, 4 weeks of drol, and 12-14 weeks of test? that is only 5# on my bench in a week! Maybe I just get a lot better results than most! The last have asses cycle I did was of tren for 7 weeks 4 years ago and i gained 45# in 7 weeks, I then went from 375-425# bench in 8 weeks of just test! I either repond better than most or most are not doing something right! When i cycle, I make sure my diet, supplements, and nutrients are as close to perfect as I can get them! I want to get the best results I can possibly get! I

You're talking rediculous man, no offense but really? read what you're writing. You can gain 20-50lbs on bench every 12 weeks without help? You must be strongest guy on forum or you started benching pencils. I mean thats like 200lbs a year you gain without using AAS? C'mon...you have to be strongest man alive by now.

[HIITB$]

Wow! i think you are doing something very very wrong! I could easilt increase my bench and deadlift 20-50# in 12-14 weeks without going anywhere ner a steroid! I am doing 500mg of test a week right now and if my bench does not go from 370# to over 450# by the end of the cycle, I will feel that something went wrong! You better start looking closely at your diet cause you have something "off"

I was referring to this post too

[The Locomotive]

You're talking rediculous man, no offense but really? read what you're writing. You can gain 20-50lbs on bench every 12 weeks without help? You must be strongest guy on forum or you started benching pencils. I mean thats like 200lbs a year you gain without using AAS? C'mon...you have to be strongest man alive by now.

I was very suprised about this as well, but since his bench was so big already I figured he must have awsome potential, although he can't expect these gains in the future (nobody can keep growing like that forever).

[T-MOS]

Yeah, I know, like I said I hate to eat. That's why I try to get at least 2500 calories from shakes. Is it really that big a deal if the calories come from shakes and supplements instead of "real" foods?

If it is, then I'll change things up, but shakes are so more convenient.

Yes its THAT big of a deal. The nutritional value that you actually GET from shakes is little compared to REAL FOOD !!! one shake a day PWO is more than enough

If you hate to eat, you better learn to love it, or do it anyway real food !!!

steaks, chickens, turkey, tuna EAT EAT EAT

[The Locomotive]

Yes its THAT big of a deal. The nutritional value that you actually GET from shakes is little compared to REAL FOOD !!! one shake a day PWO is more than enough

If you hate to eat, you better learn to love it, or do it anyway real food !!!

steaks, chickens, turkey, tuna EAT EAT EAT

Sir, yes sir!!

I'll start eating some more eggs, keeping peanuts at the ready in my office and eat that throughout the day and make sure I eat plenty of it before going to the gym (I know a guy who's pushing 60, weighing about 180lbs with six pack abs who can bench almost 500lbs with a single ply shirt. He's been pushing peanuts really hard, and from what I've read they are very healthy (like all nuts)).

I'll start "tapering down" the shakes and going over to more "real food", but since I mix the shakes with skimmed milk (which is healthy) and plenty of sunflower oil (which is healthy) I can't see that its all that bad to enjoy my favourite drink (or is it?)