HCG is bad for PCT? Is there any truth in this?

**KimboHalfSlice** · 09-05-2009, 04:52 AM

I've just read the following on the internet. Pay particular attention to the part I put in bold.

I don't know if there's any truth in it but I just thought I'd run it by people here and see what they think.

The following is written about HCG :

Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.
HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.
The typically observed dosing of 2000 to 5000IU every 4 to 5 days causes such an increase in oestrogen levels via aromatisation of the natural testosterone that this has been responsible for many cases of gynecomastia .
From the above discussion it is clear that HCG is best used during a cycle, either to:
1) Avoid testicular atrophy, or
2) Rectify the problem of an existing testicular atrophy.

What cha think?

**c-Z** · 09-05-2009, 05:18 AM

Never used hcg ..... but peep this out.

HCG - How important is it?

Another recent thread on "How Important is it"

**Vitruvian-Man** · 09-05-2009, 05:20 AM

Well yah.. That's basically a given.

Most realize that HCG is CLEARLY suppressive to the body's HPTA.

That said running it throughout the cycle, and leading up to PCT is a great idea. However, I never condone utilizing it once SERMS are active (and one is trying to raise their natty test levels).

**Swifto** · 09-05-2009, 07:53 AM

HCG will supress the bodies own LH, if not already supressed from androgen use. Its best used during your cycle at a low dose of around 250ius 2-3 times weekly.

**marcus300** · 09-05-2009, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

HCG will supress the bodies own LH, if not already supressed from androgen use. Its best used during your cycle at a low dose of around 250ius 2-3 times weekly.

I agree or a few wks before PCT is to be started.

**Someguy123** · 09-05-2009, 09:48 AM

finally some real information on this. ive seen this question a lot. and the only answer seems to be, "just dont do it". its nice to finally see the reason why.

**roid_rage** · 09-05-2009, 10:11 AM

well guys, I whiiile ago I started this threat about HCG during PCT, I did use it, and worked fine for me, though I dont have thaaaaaaaat much experience...

HCG, another approach

If you gus dont wanna read the post, here is the study...

http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

**Swifto** · 09-05-2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by roid_rage

well guys, I whiiile ago I started this threat about HCG during PCT, I did use it, and worked fine for me, though I dont have thaaaaaaaat much experience...

HCG, another approach

If you gus dont wanna read the post, here is the study...

http://www.medibolics.com/ScallyVergelAstractHPGA.pdf

If HCG was used correctly during the cycle, it wont be needed during PCT. Using it during is preventing testiculer dysfunction. Using it during PCT is treating testicular dysfunction, which doesnt always work. Using HCG during your cycle is the most effective protocol, used at a low dose with an AI IMHO.

**roid_rage** · 09-05-2009, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

If HCG was used correctly during the cycle, it wont be needed during PCT. Using it during is preventing testiculer dysfunction. Using it during PCT is treating testicular dysfunction, which doesnt always work. Using HCG during your cycle is the most effective protocol, used at a low dose with an AI IMHO.

well, I agree, but what I dont agree is that HCG CANT be use or SHOULDNT be used during PCT... also, I dont know if tis true or not, but Llewellyn says that the only proved PCT is the one showed on that study, not to mention the results from it were amazing.

**Swifto** · 09-05-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by roid_rage

well, I agree, but what I dont agree is that HCG CANT be use or SHOULDNT be used during PCT... also, I dont know if tis true or not, but Llewellyn says that the only proved PCT is the one showed on that study, not to mention the results from it were amazing.

Read my sticky. I reference a study of Clomid raising T by 146% at 25mg/ED. I also state Tamox's effectiveness at raising total T, referencing a study conducted in Apr 2009 (recent). They both prove SERMs can restore the HPTA. So, no, there isnt ONE PROVEN PCT.

HCG will suppress the bodies own LH when used at the wrong time. Like off cycle or when the body is trying to restore endogenous LH.

What was the HCG, Clomid and Tamox protocol (dosages, durations) in this study your reffering too?

**mx3** · 09-05-2009, 03:22 PM

myself and many others use hcg alongside nolva and aromasin for pct and see great results from it. every time I see a study on here and see another one here or somewhere else that proves the exact opposite. that goes for everything it seems not just hcg studies. so I take them with a grain of salt.

**rockinred** · 09-07-2009, 09:22 AM

All I can add is I used it in the PCT protocol on my first use and felt that it inhibited my recovery time. I now only use toward the end and then jump into PCT with Nolva/Clomid/Aromasin and found that works best for me.