The OTHER stuff you take along with steroids

**KimboHalfSlice** · 09-26-2009, 12:35 PM

I'm about to enter the 2nd week of PCT for my 1st ever steroid cycle.

For my 1st cycle I just did Testosterone on its own without anything else. I did Sustanon for the first 10 weeks and then did Testosterone Enanthate for a further 4 weeks. I didn't take anything like HCG , Cloimphene or Tamoxifen during the cycle.

After I took my last shot of Testosterone Enanthate , I waited 13 days before starting PCT. Here's how my PCT looks:

Clomiphene 100/50/50/50
Tamoxifen 40/20/20/20

Before the cycle I was 54 kg and I reached a peak of about 65.5 kg during the cycle. Right now in my 2nd week of PCT, I'm about 63 kg. The excess water and fat is falling away and I'm starting to feel happy about my figure again (I'm used to being "naturally ripped" so I didn't like being bloated).

I stayed on the juice for a little longer than I should have. I should have come off after 12 weeks but I stayed on for 14 weeks. I suffered severe testicular atrophy, I mean my balls went to about a third of their original size. They haven't seemed to get much bigger at all since I came off the juice, but my sexual functionality is fine (if anything I'd like my sex drive to be turned down a few notches!).

(Just as an aside, in the week or so after my last shot of Testosterone, I quite enjoyed having extremely low sex drive. I didn't get boners nearly as easily as before, but this was a good thing for me because my sex drive really is naturally too high. By the time I started PCT though, my sex drive was already back to its normal high level)

My semen volume dwindled down to nothing during the cycle. Before the cycle, I would ejaculate a large amount quite powerfully, but by the end of the cycle I was just getting maybe 3 or 4 drops that just flowed out slowly. I've been curious about what causes this loss in semen volume. I understand that my testicles were shut down and that that would results in a low sperm count, but I don't see why there wouldn't be just as much ejaculate fluid (sperm makes up a tiny part of the volume of semen). Anyone know this one?

So right now I'm planning my next cycle. After I finish my current PCT, I'm going to stay clean for a minimum of 3 months.

For my next cycle, I'm thinking of taking Testosterone with Deca -Durabolin .

Here's some thoughts I have for my next cycle:

1) I'm one of the people who suffer severe testicular atrophy, so I should probably take HCG periodically throughout my cycle, right?
2) I don't like getting all fat and bloated, is it possible to take Clomifene and Tamoxifen during a cycle in order to avoid the bloating effects of estrogen? Is this advisable?

**the big 1** · 09-26-2009, 12:46 PM

What was your pct like after your cycle?
Letrozole or arimidex are the best drugs to take on cycle to stop bloat and and water retention.
Whats your age, and what was your wieght in pounds before you cycled?

**KimboHalfSlice** · 09-26-2009, 01:02 PM

I'm caucasian, 22 years old.

I was 54 kg before I cycled and I peaked at 65 kg. I reckon after I lose the bloat I'll be around 62 kg.

**Researcher** · 09-26-2009, 01:25 PM

I'm no expert but I think the vets will tell you that you are too young and way too light to be using steroids . You need to reach your genetic potential. I am 27 and 185 pounds and will have a full year of reading on this site before I do a cycle.

**the big 1** · 09-26-2009, 01:44 PM

I have to agree with 'researcher'. But you cant exactly go back on your decision of juicing now. You could have got to that weight naturally with ease just through diet and heavy training. Your current age doesnt seem to bad, but your foundations for starting the steroid path are fairly poor, youve left no room for extra improvements on what you now have.
Can i ask also what weights you are deadlifting, squating and benching?

**JackSparrow** · 09-26-2009, 02:54 PM

'Before the cycle, I would ejaculate a large amount quite powerfully, but by the end of the cycle I was just getting maybe 3 or 4 drops that just flowed out slowly.'

Way too much info imho, lmao

**JackSparrow** · 09-26-2009, 02:57 PM

How long you been training for?

**premedreject** · 09-26-2009, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by JackSparrow

'Before the cycle, I would ejaculate a large amount quite powerfully, but by the end of the cycle I was just getting maybe 3 or 4 drops that just flowed out slowly.'

Way too much info imho, lmao

quite powerfully ehh? I got some side work in Chatsworth, if that ever comes back to you....

**KimboHalfSlice** · 09-26-2009, 07:56 PM

I trained for 6 months naturally and I put on 2 kg in that time. Then I went on the juice and put on about 10 kg in 3 months. (That's a ratio of 10:1 by the way, i.e. I put on muscle 10 times quicker when I hit the juice).

A very big reason that I put on so much weight is that the Testosterone sent my appetite through the roof, I was eating twice as much food as normal. Now in my 2nd week of PCT, my appetite is dropping back down.

I know people talk a lot about diet on this forum, but I'm really just one of those people who has a naturally very low appetite, which is the reason I can stay lean naturally. I'd probably need to take an appetite stimulant if I wanted to train naturally.....

.....but of course having said that, now that I've actually done a cycle of steroids , I wouldn't bother training naturally to gain size. In between cycles I'm just going to do enough training to maintain what I have (i.e. I'll do 3 sets of everything instead of 5), I'm not gonna bust my ass. But then when I go back on the juice I'm doing 5 sets of everything.

By the way I'm pretty short, 5'3" in height, so you can take that into account when I say how much I weigh.

Regarding what I can lift... hmm well for my flat bench press the most I can lift is about 70 to 75 kg (not very strong), but another way of looking at it is that I can bench 120% my own body weight. I know a lot of people will laugh at that figure but I'm happy with it because my strength has increased a great deal over my 1st cycle.

I might look into taking Letrozole or Arimidex during my next cycle. By the way, what are the down-turns of inhibiting the action of estrogen while on a cycle? I hear some people say that you don't gain as much if you block estrogen.

**.EA.** · 09-27-2009, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Almond

I trained for 6 months naturally and I put on 2 kg in that time. Then I went on the juice and put on about 10 kg in 3 months. (That's a ratio of 10:1 by the way, i.e. I put on muscle 10 times quicker when I hit the juice).

A very big reason that I put on so much weight is that the Testosterone sent my appetite through the roof, I was eating twice as much food as normal. Now in my 2nd week of PCT, my appetite is dropping back down.

I know people talk a lot about diet on this forum, but I'm really just one of those people who has a naturally very low appetite, which is the reason I can stay lean naturally. I'd probably need to take an appetite stimulant if I wanted to train naturally.....

.....but of course having said that, now that I've actually done a cycle of steroids , I wouldn't bother training naturally to gain size. In between cycles I'm just going to do enough training to maintain what I have (i.e. I'll do 3 sets of everything instead of 5), I'm not gonna bust my ass. But then when I go back on the juice I'm doing 5 sets of everything.

By the way I'm pretty short, 5'3" in height, so you can take that into account when I say how much I weigh.

Regarding what I can lift... hmm well for my flat bench press the most I can lift is about 70 to 75 kg (not very strong), but another way of looking at it is that I can bench 120% my own body weight. I know a lot of people will laugh at that figure but I'm happy with it because my strength has increased a great deal over my 1st cycle.

I might look into taking Letrozole or Arimidex during my next cycle. By the way, what are the down-turns of inhibiting the action of estrogen while on a cycle? I hear some people say that you don't gain as much if you block estrogen.

It seems you're like me, always lean and doesn't retain much fat. I also bet you didn't have problem with gyno at all during your cycle. You don't really need an AI, unless of course the bloat bubbles you up like no tomorrow, considering your height. That's the only difference between us lol, I'm 6' 4", so quite a bit on the other side of the spectrum.

And yes, you need Estrogen (Oestrogen) to build muscle tissue. Moderating that in any way will also moderate your gains. I'm actually over shooting my cycle a little bit because of a slight injury where I decided to just cruise it through, but gyno was, and still is, literally non-existent for me. Not even nipple sensitivity or anything of the sort. As a matter of fact, my nipples are less sensitive now than they were before I went on my cycle...

**KimboHalfSlice** · 09-27-2009, 10:32 AM

Into the 3rd week off my cycle, I had nipple sensitivity for maybe 3 days, but then it went away and never came back... that's the closest I got to gyno.

My 1st cycle was extremely successful, it's just that I'd prefer to do it without the bloat next time.

By the way, would it definitely have been Estrogen that caused the bloat? I was thinking I might just have gotten fatter simply because I was eating wayyyyyy much more.

**lifterjaydawg** · 09-29-2009, 12:55 AM

During a cycle I like to use liquidex for bloat, and it should help stop signs of gyno. If you still need something for your pct afterwords, then go with letro or exemestane fo gyno. They are strong but they work great. Good Luck.