500mg of test per week... NOT FOR EVERYONE!!

**lovbyts** · 10-11-2009, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by jason0105

ok, i have been reading the posts of amounts being used, and i have a question... I am 5'9 and weigh around 240.. i am running about 1000 mg a week, stacking with around 600 mg a week of dec. is that too much... it seems that unless i run that at a minimum, i get no results...other than strength

Please start your own thread asking this question but NO that is not what it means. Also when you start your post be a good boy and start with you Stats. 5' 9" and 240? Hmmmm and how much of that is fat???

**maxtrin** · 10-11-2009, 03:28 AM

look to this thread...

Every one is individual ...

look to post 16

200mg/week and his tst level was 2440

VS

many guys are on 200/week and their tst level is under 1000

**chicmagnet** · 10-11-2009, 05:49 AM

Obviously everyone is different but the weekly amounts that my first cycle consisted of do absolutely nothing for me now.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-11-2009, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300;4900***

I really think the cocktail of drugs your taking ninesecz aren't doing you any good at all, you are comming across very edgey and highly strung. The mental health medication + methadone + AAS doesnt sound a very good mix IMHO, is your doctor legit? does your doctor prescribe you all the meds your on?

Methadone is known to put people in a very bad mood. I would get off that drug if it were me.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-11-2009, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Agreed, nothing.

600mg/wk over 12 weeks will put your test levels over 2000. Dare I say your "pharm grade test" is fake or underdosed.

150lbs or 300lbs, your HPTA (if functioning normally) will still be the same. As far as I'm aware, reference ranges do not change due to body weight. Think about it, ranges do not change if your Jay Cutler or morbidly obese.

I believe it's the methadone taking him down to 1400. A very poweful drug that many do not fare well on!

***El Diablo*** · 10-11-2009, 08:14 AM

Methadone is more addictive than heroin, why would ur doc prescribe u meth?

**jfalco** · 10-11-2009, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by *El Diablo*

Methadone is more addictive than heroin, why would ur doc prescribe u meth?

Because he's a lazy ass who would rather perscibe meds to junkies than practice medicine. There are quite a few docs out there lke this. Methodone is great. Just ask all the homeless people hanging out outside the methodone clinic. Withdrawal from methodone is definitely worse than heroin. NTW methodone combined with benzos will produce a similar high to heroin. It's pretty comon for former heroin junkies to be on methodone and clonopin (sounds like this might be the OP. I think it was said that he is on psych meds, could be benzos) and pretend that they are doing great becuase they get their fix from a doctor instead of on the steets.

***El Diablo*** · 10-11-2009, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by jfalco

Because he's a lazy ass who would rather perscibe meds to junkies than practice medicine[/b]. There are quite a few docs out there lke this. Methodone is great. Just ask all the homeless people hanging out outside the methodone clinic. Withdrawal from methodone is definitely worse than heroin. NTW methodone combined with benzos will produce a similar high to heroin. It's pretty comon for former heroin junkies to be on methodone and clonopin (sounds like this might be the OP. I think it was said that he is on psych meds, could be benzos) and pretend that they are doing great becuase they get their fix from a doctor instead of on the steets.

^^^ true, when i stayd in london i realised that there are more meth junkies than heroin ....
Maybe the OP should tell us why the doc prescribes him meth.

**jfalco** · 10-11-2009, 08:52 AM

There is only one reason for a doc to perscribe methodone. No need to make to OP further air his dirty laundry if he doesn't choose to.

***El Diablo*** · 10-11-2009, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by jfalco

There is only one reason for a doc to perscribe methodone. No need to make to OP further air his dirty laundry if he doesn't choose to.

No no, i agree, i personally wont see it as "dirty laundry" but more trying to figure out why the fuvk the doc would prescribe meth and nine is not a fool, i just think he knows better.

no offence to the OP....

**Swifto** · 10-11-2009, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland

I believe it's the methadone taking him down to 1400. A very poweful drug that many do not fare well on!

I didnt think that.

Opiates can negatively effect the HPTA. But were talking about exogenous androgens here, not endogenous.

Effects of exogenous and endogenous opiates on the hypothalamic--pituitary--gonadal axis in the male.

Cicero TJ.

Narcotics acutely depress serum testosterone levels in the male. Three mechanisms could be involved: an enhancement of the degradation of testosterone; a direct inhibition of testicular steroidogenesis; or, finally, an inhibition of the hypothalamic-pituitary-luteinizing hormone (LH) axis resulting in a reduction in LH-dependent testicular steroidogenesis. The currently available evidence indicates that narcotics do not affect the catabolism of testosterone by the liver or testicular steroidogenesis. Rather, the data favor a direct action on the hypothalamic--pituitary--LH axis, probably by inhibiting the secretion of LH-releasing hormone (LH-RH) from the hypothalamus. The effects of narcotics on serum LH appear to be mediated via specific opioid receptors, suggesting that a naturally occurring opioid-like substance exists that normally inhibits LH. In support of this conclusion, opiate receptor blockers markedly increase serum LH levels shortly after their subcutaneous administration. In addition, endogenous opioids also seem to participate in testosterone's negative feedback control of the hypothalamic--pituitary--LH axis. Thus, it appears that opiate drugs inhibit the function of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis by occupying opiate receptors in the hypothalamus and, moreover, that endogenous opioids exist that normally bind to these receptors and regulate activity in this axis.

**AcePowerZ** · 10-11-2009, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

Again, As I said before I still think you are the biggest Stroke on this entire forum!! I would love to see a pcture of you.. Just one! and dont talk crap If you show me one of you I will gladly post one of myself! You always have so much to say about everyone so lets ave a look at your great conditioning from all your knowledge of Steroids and use of them! And so you kn0w !@ I actually am prescribed Methadone by the same DOctor! If you know what these initials stand for please do what I amsking!! ESAD

ESAD= Eat Shit And DIE!!!!!!

**chuckt12345** · 10-12-2009, 08:47 AM

im thnkin size of person has to affect levels in some way. Larger people have more blood.

**MR10X** · 10-12-2009, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Almond

I figured he meant a product produced by the likes of Schering or Organon, as opposed to something that came from an underground lab.

By the way, about the 583 mg, I got that figure as follows:

1) Take the number 250 (the amount of milligrams of Testosterone Enanthate contained in one shot)
2) Divide it by 3 (because I was taking a shot every 3rd day), this will give you the daily dosage
3) Multiply by it by 7 (for 7 days in a week), this will give you the weekly dosage

So that's:

1) 250
2) 250 divided by 3 = 83.33
3) 83.33 multiplied by 7 = 583.33

The only problem with all this is some of the milligrams are not test but is esters.Only test suspension 100mg test is 100mg test. You havnt done test untill you have done test suspension 700mg a week.

**ninesecz** · 10-12-2009, 02:01 PM

Yes my doc prescribes all the meds and she is a Very well known and respected doctor! Yes Methadone has been known to lower HPTA levels! I am on the Methadone because I have a bad back and the amount of pain medication I was taking 200mg of Oxycodone a day was costong me close to $300 a month (no insurance) for the equivilent dose of methadone it costs me $17 a month! and if you are careful with the drugs and take only what you are prescribed, IMHO none are any worse than the other! Methadone has harder withdrawal symptoms if you were to go cold turkey VS. say Percoset or Vicodin but if you are not a junkie, then there is nit much difference! I have been on the same dose for almost 43 years simply because I do not want to up the dose unless I really need to!

**ninesecz** · 10-12-2009, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by jfalco

There is only one reason for a doc to perscribe methodone. No need to make to OP further air his dirty laundry if he doesn't choose to.

You should not be talking crap unless you know what you are talking about!! I have no dirty laundry so do not be trying to read between lines that are not there! I do not take Methadone because I was a herion addict! I have never tried Herion in my life! I take it for pain because it is inexpensive and only has to be taken every -8-12 hours VS. every 3-4 15mg of Methadone (which is equal to a 40mg oxycontin 12 hr pill) is about $0.70!! the same 40mg Oxycontin pill is $9.71 !! that is why I choose to take methadone! Do not talk about things you have only read about!

**Mooseman33** · 10-12-2009, 02:06 PM

43 years of meth...
dammit man, how old are u.

have u tried the suboxone route?
they are using it for pain also?

man, u dont want to be on metha done for long..

and isnt this the same doc that misread ur results and u got jaundice(spelling)?

**Mooseman33** · 10-12-2009, 02:07 PM

also, about the cost.
there are programs that provide u the oxy 80's for free on a monthly basis.
have u looked into any of thoses?
i know purdue offers it.

**Big** · 10-12-2009, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

I have been on the same dose for almost 43 years simply because I do not want to up the dose unless I really need to!

wait, what?

**ninesecz** · 10-12-2009, 02:25 PM

My Bad!!! 3 years hit the other button by mistake Sorry!! There is no getting Oxycontin free where I live! No Suboxone Does not work at all for pain and it is 3-5X more expensive than any opiate! All Suboxone does is take away the withdrawal symptoms and a very few doctors even prescribe it! A friend of mine takes suboxone and I have actually tried it and makes me feel fine, but the pain without the meds is almost unbearable! It took him alnmost 3 months to et prescribed the medicine! Small towns are hard to get good healthcare!

**marcus300** · 10-12-2009, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

Yes my doc prescribes all the meds and she is a Very well known and respected doctor! Yes Methadone has been known to lower HPTA levels! I am on the Methadone because I have a bad back and the amount of pain medication I was taking 200mg of Oxycodone a day was costong me close to $300 a month (no insurance) for the equivilent dose of methadone it costs me $17 a month! and if you are careful with the drugs and take only what you are prescribed, IMHO none are any worse than the other! Methadone has harder withdrawal symptoms if you were to go cold turkey VS. say Percoset or Vicodin but if you are not a junkie, then there is nit much difference! I have been on the same dose for almost 43 years simply because I do not want to up the dose unless I really need to!

Originally Posted by ninesecz

You should not be talking crap unless you know what you are talking about!! I have no dirty laundry so do not be trying to read between lines that are not there! I do not take Methadone because I was a herion addict! I have never tried Herion in my life! I take it for pain because it is inexpensive and only has to be taken every -8-12 hours VS. every 3-4 15mg of Methadone (which is equal to a 40mg oxycontin 12 hr pill) is about $0.70!! the same 40mg Oxycontin pill is $9.71 !! that is why I choose to take methadone! Do not talk about things you have only read about!

43yrs?? I really think you shouldnt be using AAS along side your mental health meds, methadone and what ever else your using, something doesnt seem right with what you say! take your foot of the gas and take it easy

**chuckt12345** · 10-12-2009, 02:28 PM

need to close this one fellas

**Big** · 10-12-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

My Bad!!! 3 years hit the other button by mistake Sorry!! There is no getting Oxycontin free where I live! No Suboxone Does not work at all for pain and it is 3-5X more expensive than any opiate! All Suboxone does is take away the withdrawal symptoms and a very few doctors even prescribe it! A friend of mine takes suboxone and I have actually tried it and makes me feel fine, but the pain without the meds is almost unbearable! It took him alnmost 3 months to et prescribed the medicine! Small towns are hard to get good healthcare!

I figured it was a typo lol.

**Mooseman33** · 10-12-2009, 02:45 PM

yeah me too, but i know some of u guys are real old....

j/k

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-12-2009, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

I didnt think that.

Opiates can negatively effect the HPTA. But were talking about exogenous androgens here, not endogenous.

Effects of exogenous and endogenous opiates on the hypothalamic--pituitary--gonadal axis in the male.

Cicero TJ.

Narcotics acutely depress serum testosterone levels in the male. Three mechanisms could be involved: an enhancement of the degradation of testosterone; a direct inhibition of testicular steroidogenesis; or, finally, an inhibition of the hypothalamic-pituitary-luteinizing hormone (LH) axis resulting in a reduction in LH-dependent testicular steroidogenesis. The currently available evidence indicates that narcotics do not affect the catabolism of testosterone by the liver or testicular steroidogenesis. Rather, the data favor a direct action on the hypothalamic--pituitary--LH axis, probably by inhibiting the secretion of LH-releasing hormone (LH-RH) from the hypothalamus. The effects of narcotics on serum LH appear to be mediated via specific opioid receptors, suggesting that a naturally occurring opioid-like substance exists that normally inhibits LH. In support of this conclusion, opiate receptor blockers markedly increase serum LH levels shortly after their subcutaneous administration. In addition, endogenous opioids also seem to participate in testosterone's negative feedback control of the hypothalamic--pituitary--LH axis. Thus, it appears that opiate drugs inhibit the function of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis by occupying opiate receptors in the hypothalamus and, moreover, that endogenous opioids exist that normally bind to these receptors and regulate activity in this axis.

Swifto, I think you may have mis-understood me. I am saying-Strong Narcotics can negatively affect both exogenous test levels and endogenous test levels.

**Vitruvian-Man** · 10-12-2009, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

43yrs?? I really think you shouldnt be using AAS along side your mental health [ISSUES],. meds, methadone and what ever else your using, something doesnt seem right with what you say! take your foot of the gas and take it easy

x2 you should take it easy there cowboy.

That's one mighty cocktail of chemicals / hormones to be putting into your body.

Are you even able to function during the day on all those pills? or do you just veg out on your couch all day super high on methadone and chat online?? lol.

***El Diablo*** · 10-13-2009, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

yeah me too, but i know some of u guys are real old....

j/k

LOL.. Marcus and Big are Veterans on the board. LOL.. j/k

Originally Posted by Vitruvian-Man;4***189

x2 you should take it easy there cowboy.

That's one mighty cocktail of chemicals / hormones to be putting into your body.

Are you even able to function during the day on all those pills? or do you just veg out on your couch all day super high on methadone and chat online?? lol.

Jasses Meth, it used to make me feel like a real POS...

**Swifto** · 10-13-2009, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland;4***135

Swifto, I think you may have mis-understood me. I am saying-Strong Narcotics can negatively affect both exogenous test levels and endogenous test levels.

OK.

I just havent been able to find anything stating opiates can negatively effect exogenous hormones, only endogenous. Have you got anything that states opiates negatively affect exogenous hormones?

**jfalco** · 10-13-2009, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

You should not be talking crap unless you know what you are talking about!! I have no dirty laundry so do not be trying to read between lines that are not there! I do not take Methadone because I was a herion addict! I have never tried Herion in my life! I take it for pain because it is inexpensive and only has to be taken every -8-12 hours VS. every 3-4 15mg of Methadone (which is equal to a 40mg oxycontin 12 hr pill) is about $0.70!! the same 40mg Oxycontin pill is $9.71 !! that is why I choose to take methadone! Do not talk about things you have only read about!

My bad. I have never heard of methodone being perscribed for pain. I know lots of junkies, and I have first hand experience. I am not talking about anything I've read about. I sincerely appologise for jumping to the wrong conclusion. You should, however, be aware of the stigma that surrounds your pain medication, and know that I will not be the only one who jumps to the same conclusion. Maybe you should include a little more information when you post on a public forum that you use a drug that is almost exclusively used in maintainance programs for opium addicts.

You must have some very serious pain to require a dose of 200 mg a day of oxycontin.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-13-2009, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto;4***638

OK.

I just havent been able to find anything stating opiates can negatively effect exogenous hormones, only endogenous. Have you got anything that states opiates negatively affect exogenous hormones?

Not in writing but a friend of mine is an endocrinologist.Over the years he has seen a coorelation between those on narcotics needing higher dosages of synthetic testosterone to remain in the normal ranges for male HRT.

BG · 10-13-2009, 07:54 AM

A friend once told me something and it made a lot sense to me. He said, if your taking gear and your getting a side effect , then you take something to combat that side effect which in return is giving you another side effect, ect,ect....don't you think somethings wrong?

Now the OP is taking steroids to train harder , which is hurting his back so he takes meth, but the meth is negating some of the effects of the gear so he takes more gear?? Do we see a pattern here....maybe some time off from everything would do some good....sounds like a fuc'n train wreck to me, your just poisoning yourself.

**Mooseman33** · 10-13-2009, 08:15 AM

^^^agreed.
also, ninez, isnt this the same doc that misread ur results and u developed juandice(spelling)?

if so bro, u should try to see another doc, atleast for a second overview of everything ur taking..

**MuscleScience** · 10-13-2009, 09:59 AM

“Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive”

***El Diablo*** · 10-13-2009, 10:01 AM

^^^ im no even gonna ask MS

**MuscleScience** · 10-13-2009, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by *El Diablo*;4***875

^^^ im no even gonna ask MS

Sir Walter Scott

***El Diablo*** · 10-13-2009, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience;4***878

Sir Walter Scott

Okay... im not gonna ask why,, lol

**ninesecz** · 10-13-2009, 02:17 PM

Sorry But I do not take the Pain meds because I hurt from the Gym that would be plain Stupid! I was hurt on the job and because of that I am Permanently Disabled but because the company and Union I was in kind Of screwed me I have to continue to work! Because i have a back injury I am suppose to Stop training and turn into a fat slob?? No Thanks! Obviously I am not gong to train and not do legs, So I have to Do what I have to Do! Rather than doing klegs 2X a week moderately and being in pain, I beat the shit out of them once a week and yes It hurts but i would rather be in a little extra pain and in great shape than A fat slob and still in pain but just a little less! I have 3 herniated discs and degenerative disc disease! I am also more than likely going to end up with Rhumetoid Arthritis like my mother, and Grand parents both had . Seems as though the guys on this forum would understand wanting to stay in good shape and to continue to train even though I am in pain! It is not like I am going to get better if I stop Training! Making my core stronger on some levels actually helps me!

People need to understand... I will not get an operation to fix the problems! the discs are not next to each other which would need a 10"+ incision! My grandma had a blood clot and almost died from the operation and my aunt is paralyzed from the waist down from a back operation! So My mother and I both decided to just deal with the back problems! I understand to most 175-200mg of oxycodone does sound like a lot! Even me, when i started getting prescribed pain meds, I was prescribed 5/500 (5mg with 500mg of codeine) Hydrocodone which is a vicoden or Lortab.. but just as with steroids you build up a tolerance! I am 34 and was injured when I was 22! then re injured worse at 25! after 12-13 years of being on pain meds, you build up a tolerance! So if you think about it! I have really only increased my doseage by about 15mg a year for the past 10 years! I know a guy who was parlyzed and takes methadone for the pain and he takes 360mg of methadone for the pain everyday! now to me that is rediculous

**Mooseman33** · 10-13-2009, 03:00 PM

i hear all that nine, but dont u think u should get looked at by another doctor.
this one already made a huge mistake which had u pretty sick.

and 175-200 of oxycodone is not that bad bro, just sucks that the cost is what has u using meth. have u looked into the programs i mentioned earlier, there are ways around things.
and yes, 360 mg of meth a day for pain is flat out crazy. sounds like a south florida doc...
man i love the docs down here....

**BJJ** · 10-13-2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

Sorry But I do not take the Pain meds because I hurt from the Gym that would be plain Stupid! I was hurt on the job and because of that I am Permanently Disabled but because the company and Union I was in kind Of screwed me I have to continue to work! Because i have a back injury I am suppose to Stop training and turn into a fat slob?? No Thanks! Obviously I am not gong to train and not do legs, So I have to Do what I have to Do! Rather than doing klegs 2X a week moderately and being in pain, I beat the shit out of them once a week and yes It hurts but i would rather be in a little extra pain and in great shape than A fat slob and still in pain but just a little less! I have 3 herniated discs and degenerative disc disease! I am also more than likely going to end up with Rhumetoid Arthritis like my mother, and Grand parents both had . Seems as though the guys on this forum would understand wanting to stay in good shape and to continue to train even though I am in pain! It is not like I am going to get better if I stop Training! Making my core stronger on some levels actually helps me!

People need to understand... I will not get an operation to fix the problems! the discs are not next to each other which would need a 10"+ incision! My grandma had a blood clot and almost died from the operation and my aunt is paralyzed from the waist down from a back operation! So My mother and I both decided to just deal with the back problems! I understand to most 175-200mg of oxycodone does sound like a lot! Even me, when i started getting prescribed pain meds, I was prescribed 5/500 (5mg with 500mg of codeine) Hydrocodone which is a vicoden or Lortab.. but just as with steroids you build up a tolerance! I am 34 and was injured when I was 22! then re injured worse at 25! after 12-13 years of being on pain meds, you build up a tolerance! So if you think about it! I have really only increased my doseage by about 15mg a year for the past 10 years! I know a guy who was parlyzed and takes methadone for the pain and he takes 360mg of methadone for the pain everyday! now to me that is rediculous

I am very sorry to read that, I wish you Good Luck.

**Ronnie Rowland** · 10-13-2009, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

Sorry But I do not take the Pain meds because I hurt from the Gym that would be plain Stupid! I was hurt on the job and because of that I am Permanently Disabled but because the company and Union I was in kind Of screwed me I have to continue to work! Because i have a back injury I am suppose to Stop training and turn into a fat slob?? No Thanks! Obviously I am not gong to train and not do legs, So I have to Do what I have to Do! Rather than doing klegs 2X a week moderately and being in pain, I beat the shit out of them once a week and yes It hurts but i would rather be in a little extra pain and in great shape than A fat slob and still in pain but just a little less! I have 3 herniated discs and degenerative disc disease! I am also more than likely going to end up with Rhumetoid Arthritis like my mother, and Grand parents both had . Seems as though the guys on this forum would understand wanting to stay in good shape and to continue to train even though I am in pain! It is not like I am going to get better if I stop Training! Making my core stronger on some levels actually helps me!

People need to understand... I will not get an operation to fix the problems! the discs are not next to each other which would need a 10"+ incision! My grandma had a blood clot and almost died from the operation and my aunt is paralyzed from the waist down from a back operation! So My mother and I both decided to just deal with the back problems! I understand to most 175-200mg of oxycodone does sound like a lot! Even me, when i started getting prescribed pain meds, I was prescribed 5/500 (5mg with 500mg of codeine) Hydrocodone which is a vicoden or Lortab.. but just as with steroids you build up a tolerance! I am 34 and was injured when I was 22! then re injured worse at 25! after 12-13 years of being on pain meds, you build up a tolerance! So if you think about it! I have really only increased my doseage by about 15mg a year for the past 10 years! I know a guy who was parlyzed and takes methadone for the pain and he takes 360mg of methadone for the pain everyday! now to me that is rediculous

Well one thing is for sure, we can't see pain! If you need this pain medication to live a happy life then you will probably have to take more gear to get a response. Don't sweat it. As a trainer, I deal with a lot of chronic pain patients and I understand.

I would not worry about the incision if they can put in artificial disk but a multi-level fusion could turn out ugly unless you get it done right. Advil taken at night could help you take less narcotic pain meds. Sorry to hear you are hurting. If there is anything training wise I can help you with just ask.