Can you be addicted to steroids?

[dec11]

i dont find them addictive in any shape or form, i find training addictive and steroids a boost to tht, the same as supps only more powerful of course

[Kratos]

They are actually considered MORE addictive then Mary-J (sorry I will edit this out in 1 sec, if it's inappropriate). Mary-Jane is known to have about a 10% addiction rate. Steroids are considered a tad higher then this.

The next stages of drug / hormone addiction lead up to drugs such as meth, crack, etc.

If you look at the concept of addiction from a psychological perspective it is very possible that people can become addicted to steroids. To clarify, people become addicted to pharmacological drugs because of the drugs "potential for addiction" (which is essentially governed by how lipid soluble the particular drug is.... the higher the lipid solubility = the higher chances of tolerance aka addiction.)
lol

What are you talking about?
Lipid solubility is important for crossing the blood brain barrier, yes...but has nothing to do with addiction.
For example: Neurontin is very lipophilic, morphine is not. Nobody is selling their bodies for a neurontin fix.

and anybody who's made brownies knows THC melts in oil, yet you say it's not addictive.

[BJJ]

Addicting, yes, but if there are no significant adverse effects for the vast majority of users, then wtf is the problem? Answer, there is no problem, except that "addiction" sounds like a "bad" thing.

Wait till we are all older!
Then, you might say "no problem".

[dec11]

any of us can drop at anytime from anything

[elfin1mf]

It was an ongoing problem declan, orajel was not working for me and the pain just kept getting worse. Dentist did not help.

[terraj]

I would say the bulk of people who are attracted to the BB/ steriod life have

addictive personalities.

[CRACKER]

if your body naturally produces something and you take something that shuts it down you are now physically dependant on that chemical end of story and not to mention the psycological dependancy s/p? thanks all

[ranging1]

i have no doubt anabolics can be addictive or people develop a dependence on them

i mean people wouldnt be on their 8th or 9th cycle alwise

i persoanlly think anything can be addictive, however i dont think its the substance that is always the addictive one

rather i think its people personality traits and characteristics that will determine whether or not they feel addicted or dependent on steroids

i think its like alcohol,

alcohol itself isnt addictive, however we have alcoholics that cant live without it and are dependent on it

i think the same goes with steroids

[*El Diablo*]

I have a very addictive personality, thats why i dont touch alcohol or cigarettes etc. But im a proud AAS addict.

[fastwardo]

i have no doubt anabolics can be addictive or people develop a dependence on them

i mean people wouldnt be on their 8th or 9th cycle alwise

i persoanlly think anything can be addictive, however i dont think its the substance that is always the addictive one

rather i think its people personality traits and characteristics that will determine whether or not they feel addicted or dependent on steroids

i think its like alcohol,

alcohol itself isnt addictive, however we have alcoholics that cant live without it and are dependent on it

i think the same goes with steroids

R u kidding? Alcohol is one of the most addictive drugs known to man, physically and mentally. In fact, it is the only drug whos withdrawal symptoms can actually kill you! Seizures, delirium tremens, vomiting, cold sweats, shakes.

[1bigun11]

Wait till we are all older!
Then, you might say "no problem".

I'm 48 years old bro. Started using 25 years ago. How much longer do you want me to wait??????????????????????

[chuckt12345]

I'm 48 years old bro. Started using 25 years ago. How much longer do you want me to wait??????????????????????

umm i give it to about 55

[1bigun11]

umm i give it to about 55

Kratos' study said that there were no adverse affects for 70% of chronic users.

But if you really feel they are that dangerous bro, your either a hypocrit for advacating their use, or law enforcement. I dont know what else you would be doing here given your personal feelings.

[chuckt12345]

Kratos' study said that there were no adverse affects for 70% of chronic users.

But if you really feel they are that dangerous bro, your either a hypocrit for advacating their use, or law enforcement. I dont know what else you would be doing here given your personal feelings.

LOL
its common sense shooting high amounts of hormones in your body for extended periods of time will be harmful in the long run. Hey its just my opinion and sorry you dont like it. Good luck with that massive coronary in a few.

[1bigun11]

LOL
its common sense shooting high amounts of hormones in your body for extended periods of time will be harmful in the long run. Hey its just my opinion and sorry you dont like it. Good luck with that massive coronary in a few.

Yeah, you'd like that wouldn't you. And I hope you dont get shot in the head on your next drug raid bro, because that would be really tragic too.

[Kratos]

Kratos' study said that there were no adverse affects for 70% of chronic users.

But if you really feel they are that dangerous bro, your either a hypocrit for advacating their use, or law enforcement. I dont know what else you would be doing here given your personal feelings.

Nah man, what it says is

About 30% of AAS users appear to develop a dependence syndrome, characterized by chronic AAS use despite adverse effects on physical, psychosocial or occupational functioning.

It other words even though AAS are causing many problems in the users life, they refuse to, can't or won't stop using.

There is no hypocracy in presenting the good the bad, and the ugly, so we can make better informed choices. Otherwise we'd be practicing religion and not science.

[1bigun11]

Nah man, what it says is

About 30% of AAS users appear to develop a dependence syndrome, characterized by chronic AAS use despite adverse effects on physical, psychosocial or occupational functioning.

It other words even though AAS are causing many problems in the users life, they refuse to, can't or won't stop using.

There is no hypocracy in presenting the good the bad, and the ugly, so we can make better informed choices. Otherwise we'd be practicing religion and not science.

If 30% do, then 70% do not. If your not presenting that side of the coin, then you are practicing religion (hell fire scare tactics), and not science.

[BJJ]

I'm 48 years old bro. Started using 25 years ago. How much longer do you want me to wait??????????????????????

60, bro.

[Kratos]

If 30% do, then 70% do not. If your not presenting that side of the coin, then you are practicing religion (hell fire scare tactics), and not science.

I'm not presenting weather the glass is half full or half empty. The study doesn't state the 70% who don't have dependence issues don't have other health realted issues or risk factors.

Hell fire scare tactics...what what what
The simple fact is religion isn't science because with religion everything that can't be proven or verified is taken on faith and any contrary information is thrown out the window. Any information that confirms what's in the bible is studied.
Science begs for proof and seeks information.
I'm not trying to start a religious debate here, but you clearly don't understand the metaphor.

[Kratos]

60, bro.

who knows he may never have problems
and he may have a laundry list of problems on his 70th birthday

percentage wise he is more likely to have certain problems then a non-steroid user. It doesn't mean he will have those problems and it doesn't mean someone who doesn't use steroids can't have the same problem.

[chuckt12345]

If 30% do, then 70% do not. If your not presenting that side of the coin, then you are practicing religion (hell fire scare tactics), and not science.

so 30% is not bad?

Why you say im law enforcement because i thnk steroids long term are bad baffles me.
I do not THINK prolong use of steroids is safe,, period. You dont have to agree with me i could care less.
You have anti steroid users who think AAS is the devil on one side of the fence and Pro steroid who think they are perfect on the other side. I like to find myself in the middle.

And i dont want you to die of a heart attack.

[CRACKER]

Everyone gets butthurt when the truth rolls out

[BeastIn916]

simply put.

If you like something where it affects yourself, and daily activities and completely lose touch with reality.

that is addiction.

[bjpennnn]

mentally they can be highly addictive but physically no.

[bjpennnn]

I work in the chemical dependency field and it is not considered a physically dependent drug....it may be one day but it does not meet the criteria of today.

[RANA]

Damn BJ, I have not seen you here in forever

[Kratos]

mentally they can be highly addictive but physically no.

Tennant et al. (1988) recently described the case of apparent physical dependence on anabolic -androgenic steroids in a 23-year-old male bodybuilder who had been using anabolic-androgenic steroids (methandrostenolone 75mg and methenolone 150mg intramuscularly every other day and oxandrolone 20mg and oxymetholone 100mg orally each day) for 3 years and who was unable to abstain from anabolic-androgenic steroids without experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms, including depression, disabling fatigue and violent, paranoid, and suicidal thoughts and feelings. Urinalysis was negative for alcohol, amphetamines, cannabinoid metabolites, cocaine metabolites, opioids and phencylcidine. Classic opioid withdrawal symptoms appeared following naloxone administration and anabolic-androgenic steroid cessation. However, despite being treated with clonidine over the next 6 days and a decrease in withdrawal symptoms, the patient left the treatment programme and apparently resumed use of anabolic-androgenic steroids 7 days after admission.

Brower et al. (1989a) reported the case of a 24-year-old male noncompetitive weightlifter whose dependence on a combination of anabolic-androgenic steroids (200mg of testosterone cypionate intramuscularly every 3 days, 100mg of nandrolone decanoate intramuscularly every 3 days, 25mg of oxandrolone orally daily, 30 to 45mg of bolasterone subcutaneously every 2 to 3 days, and 1000 to 2000 units of human chorionic gonadotrophin intramuscularly every 2 to 3 days) met criteria for psychoactive substance dependence. Tolerance, withdrawal symptoms (depression, fatigue), and the use of anabolic-androgenic steroids to alleviate withdrawal symptoms had occurred. An uncontrolled pattern of anabolic-androgenic steroid use continued, despite adverse consequences such as severe mood disturbance (irritability, euphoria, anxiety, depression), marital conflict, and changes of the patient’s usual values and life goals.

Hays et al. (1990) also have reported a similar case in which a 22-year-old male noncompetitive weightlifter who had been using anabolic-androgenic steroids for 9 months (25mg of oxandrolone daily, nandrolone phenpropionate, testosterone propionate intramuscularly each week, and methandrostenolone) presented with complaints of depression and inability to cease anabolic-androgenic steroid use. The patient felt depressed, fatigued, had occasional temper outbursts, and slept less when taking the steroids. Steroid craving and decreased self-esteem were reported between periods of steroid use. Following 1 week and improvement in mood, the man was discharged from the hospital chemical dependency treatment unit.

In another study by Brower et al. (1990) of 8 anabolic-androgenic steroid-using weightlifters, all reported both withdrawal symptoms and uncontrolled use despite adverse consequences (feeling nervous, irritable, or depressed). Psychiatric, especially depressive, symptoms were prominent in most of the dependent users. Brower (1990) has suggested that some conventional drug abuse treatments such as pharmacotherapy (used with cocaine withdrawal) or psychotherapy may be effective with dependent anabolic-androgenic steroid users.

Finally, Kashkin and Kleber (1989) in their review, suggest that the psychoactive effects, withdrawal symptoms, and underlying biological mechanisms of steroid hormones, including anabolic-androgenic steroids, appear similar to the mechanisms and complications accompanying cocaine, alcohol or opioid abuse. They concur that a proportion of anabolic-androgenic steroid abusers may develop a sex steroid hormone dependence disorder and that treatment should be based on research into steroid effects on both opioid and aminergic neurotransmission systems and relapse prevention.

[chuckt12345]

Tennant et al. (1988) recently described the case of apparent physical dependence on anabolic -androgenic steroids in a 23-year-old male bodybuilder who had been using anabolic-androgenic steroids (methandrostenolone 75mg and methenolone 150mg intramuscularly every other day and oxandrolone 20mg and oxymetholone 100mg orally each day) for 3 years and who was unable to abstain from anabolic-androgenic steroids without experiencing severe withdrawal symptoms, including depression, disabling fatigue and violent, paranoid, and suicidal thoughts and feelings. Urinalysis was negative for alcohol, amphetamines, cannabinoid metabolites, cocaine metabolites, opioids and phencylcidine. Classic opioid withdrawal symptoms appeared following naloxone administration and anabolic-androgenic steroid cessation. However, despite being treated with clonidine over the next 6 days and a decrease in withdrawal symptoms, the patient left the treatment programme and apparently resumed use of anabolic-androgenic steroids 7 days after admission.

Brower et al. (1989a) reported the case of a 24-year-old male noncompetitive weightlifter whose dependence on a combination of anabolic-androgenic steroids (200mg of testosterone cypionate intramuscularly every 3 days, 100mg of nandrolone decanoate intramuscularly every 3 days, 25mg of oxandrolone orally daily, 30 to 45mg of bolasterone subcutaneously every 2 to 3 days, and 1000 to 2000 units of human chorionic gonadotrophin intramuscularly every 2 to 3 days) met criteria for psychoactive substance dependence. Tolerance, withdrawal symptoms (depression, fatigue), and the use of anabolic-androgenic steroids to alleviate withdrawal symptoms had occurred. An uncontrolled pattern of anabolic-androgenic steroid use continued, despite adverse consequences such as severe mood disturbance (irritability, euphoria, anxiety, depression), marital conflict, and changes of the patient’s usual values and life goals.

Hays et al. (1990) also have reported a similar case in which a 22-year-old male noncompetitive weightlifter who had been using anabolic-androgenic steroids for 9 months (25mg of oxandrolone daily, nandrolone phenpropionate, testosterone propionate intramuscularly each week, and methandrostenolone) presented with complaints of depression and inability to cease anabolic-androgenic steroid use. The patient felt depressed, fatigued, had occasional temper outbursts, and slept less when taking the steroids. Steroid craving and decreased self-esteem were reported between periods of steroid use. Following 1 week and improvement in mood, the man was discharged from the hospital chemical dependency treatment unit.

In another study by Brower et al. (1990) of 8 anabolic-androgenic steroid-using weightlifters, all reported both withdrawal symptoms and uncontrolled use despite adverse consequences (feeling nervous, irritable, or depressed). Psychiatric, especially depressive, symptoms were prominent in most of the dependent users. Brower (1990) has suggested that some conventional drug abuse treatments such as pharmacotherapy (used with cocaine withdrawal) or psychotherapy may be effective with dependent anabolic-androgenic steroid users.

Finally, Kashkin and Kleber (1989) in their review, suggest that the psychoactive effects, withdrawal symptoms, and underlying biological mechanisms of steroid hormones, including anabolic-androgenic steroids, appear similar to the mechanisms and complications accompanying cocaine, alcohol or opioid abuse. They concur that a proportion of anabolic-androgenic steroid abusers may develop a sex steroid hormone dependence disorder and that treatment should be based on research into steroid effects on both opioid and aminergic neurotransmission systems and relapse prevention.

Interesting,, Seems like most of the withdraw symptoms they mention correlate with no testestrone in the system.

[bjpennnn]

I am just not going to go into this. I have taken huge amounts of steriods at a very young age, when my hormones would be the most screwed up from it and did not experience withdrawals. They are throwing that word around to much. I have also used large amounts of recreational drugs and been to rehab for over a year and i cannot compare how you feel from coming down from misc. drug or even quitting smoking cigs to stopping steroids . I have never stole from people to get my steroid "Fix". These two are just not in the same category. Mentally they are insanely addictive for sure.

[bjpennnn]

Damn BJ, I have not seen you here in forever

Ya, I have been gone for awhile just got certified as a chemical dependency counselor in California, been working at this adolescent rehab center taking up all my time. I cant believe about t-mos....

[1bigun11]

60, bro.

Oh you mean like this guy? (Larry Scott) Yeah I can see he's suffering real bad for his past use at age 60.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X68Re...eature=related


I am sure that when I hit 60, the choir boys will all chime in, "Well, just wait till your 70 bro." And at age 70, "Well wait till your 85."

I've been hearing these same scare boys sing about how dangerous steroids are and how my death is just around the corner for 30 years.

[Kratos]

Oh you mean like this guy? (Larry Scott) Yeah I can see he's suffering real bad for his past use at age 60.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X68Re...eature=related


I am sure that when I hit 60, the choir boys will all chime in, "Well, just wait till your 70 bro." And at age 70, "Well wait till your 85."

I've been hearing these same scare boys sing about how dangerous steroids are and how my death is just around the corner for 30 years.

Yeah, hopefully you end up like that guy...as long as you go into understanding you could also end up like one of these guys.

Sonny Schmidt died at 46
> Scott Klein died at 30
> Ron Teufel died at 45
> Dan Duchaine died at 48
> Mohammed Benaziza died at 28
> Andreas Munzer died at 30
> Mike Mentzer died at 49
> Ray Mentzer died at 47
> Don Ross died at 55
> Dr. John Tristany died
> Don Peters died
> Ray Raridon died
> Arnold Schwarzenegger (heart problems)
> Don Long (kidney failure)
> Tom Prince (kidney failure)
> Flex Wheeler (kidney transplant)
> Ed Corney (stroke)
> Boyer Coe (heart)
> Danny Padilla (heart)
> Pete Grymkowski (heart)
> Lyle Alzado died at 42
> Curt Hennig died at 44
> Davey Boy Smith died at 39
> Louie "Spicolli" Mucciolo died at 27
> Ravishing Rick Rude died at 40
> Brian Pillman died at 35
> 62 Finnish power-lifters suspected of using steroids died at a rate five times higher than average.

not in any way a complete list
Gary Himing IFBB pro died on stage this year
Anthony D'Arezzo died in his hotel room at 44

[BJJ]

who knows he may never have problems
and he may have a laundry list of problems on his 70th birthday agree

percentage wise he is more likely to have certain problems then a non-steroid user. fair enough It doesn't mean he will have those problems and it doesn't mean someone who doesn't use steroids can't have the same problem. agree too

I just wanted to mean no one really knows when and in case, that is why one cannot say I use steroids since 25 years and presuppose the next 25 will be the same.

[BJJ]

Oh you mean like this guy? (Larry Scott) Yeah I can see he's suffering real bad for his past use at age 60.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X68Re...eature=related


I am sure that when I hit 60, the choir boys will all chime in, "Well, just wait till your 70 bro." And at age 70, "Well wait till your 85."

I've been hearing these same scare boys sing about how dangerous steroids are and how my death is just around the corner for 30 years.

I wish you that to happen but do not be so conceited man.
You cannot say steroid users are safe, because they are not!
Do not lie to yourself.

[1bigun11]

If the leap can be made by the medical establisment, it opens the door to further enforcement.

Why would law enforcement need this study to justify further enforcement when its already got Kratos, Chucky and BJJ preaching the dangers of steroids , which will be used politically (and religiously) to justify further enforcement? If you want freedom of choice in this area, emphasize safety. And why would someone who is convinced they can't be used safely join a board like this unless they have ulterior motives? Or maybe Kratos, Chucky and BJJ welcome further enforcement. Maybe that's their point?

Or maybe Kratos' point in starting this thread was that he just wanted to stir the pot and get an argument/discussion started, and that no matter what anyone posts he's going to take the opposite side.

All I've got is my experience, which tells me the dangers of steriod use are grossly over-exagerated. I dont plan on stopping anytime soon. Hell my doctor wrote the presccription.

cheers.

[meathead320]

Yeah, hopefully you end up like that guy...as long as you go into understanding you could also end up like one of these guys.

Sonny Schmidt died at 46
> Scott Klein died at 30
> Ron Teufel died at 45
> Dan Duchaine died at 48
> Mohammed Benaziza died at 28
> Andreas Munzer died at 30
> Mike Mentzer died at 49
> Ray Mentzer died at 47
> Don Ross died at 55
> Dr. John Tristany died
> Don Peters died
> Ray Raridon died
> Arnold Schwarzenegger (heart problems)
> Don Long (kidney failure)
> Tom Prince (kidney failure)
> Flex Wheeler (kidney transplant)
> Ed Corney (stroke)
> Boyer Coe (heart)
> Danny Padilla (heart)
> Pete Grymkowski (heart)
> Lyle Alzado died at 42
> Curt Hennig died at 44
> Davey Boy Smith died at 39
> Louie "Spicolli" Mucciolo died at 27
> Ravishing Rick Rude died at 40
> Brian Pillman died at 35
> 62 Finnish power-lifters suspected of using steroids died at a rate five times higher than average.

not in any way a complete list
Gary Himing IFBB pro died on stage this year
Anthony D'Arezzo died in his hotel room at 44

In Arnold's defense, he had a bicuspid heart valve. That had nothing to do with AAS.

Lyle Alzado died of a type of cancer not seen in other AAS users, and likely would have gotten brain cancer either way.

There are also several Pro-Wrestlers on the list who were cocaine addicts.

Dan Duchaine OD'ed on Nubain from what I remember.

However, there is not doubt that the cholesterol effects, combined with Blood Pressure raising effects of many steroids cannot increase ones risk for cardiovascular disease.

High doses for many years could also lead to an enlarged left ventricle wall of the heart as well.

So, the truth as always lays somewhere in-between.

You got some guys who only use AAS, and cycle in smart ways, or cruise at HRT doses of test only (often with a valid legal TRT script), and also do plenty of cardio, take fish oil, eat a healthy diet, and do not put the body through the stress of competing either.

Then there are guys who are addicted too. Can some still live long lives? Sure. Can it have big negative effects on others? Yes, as well.

Addiction to Steroids is more complex than typical street drugs, for 2 reasons.

1. Addictive effects are secondary. Simply giving an addict less addictive narcotics will not help matters much, as it is not these immediate effects the AAS user wants.

2. Physical addiction is so extreme that is can result in permanent need to stay on a low dose (compared to dose of AAS cycle) of testosterone , as the body can permanently lose its ability to create testosterone on its own sometimes.

Therefor, if someone want to be treated, then treatment cannot be the same for other type of drug addicts.

First off, they need to want to go off, and stay off. You will not find a lot of guys who want this option.

For those guys who have no desire to compete in bodybuilding, or powerlifting, or anything else. Who have other hobbies, and family, and do not really get any social accolades for being huge, these guys who have been on for a few years, they may be wanting to come off and stay off.

The problem is if they seek any form of help, those who normally treat addiction have no idea what they are dealing with.

They attempt the usual, and do not know why things went wrong. Well, half of the withdrawal symptoms they are seeing, are actually the effects of low testosterone . Having low testosterone is not a healthy state to be in.

So the first focus needs to be on restoring the HPTA. They need to be on a good thorough PCT. They will need to be on clomid a while. Then tested two weeks after they come off the clomid, to be re-assured they have normal testosterone again. If its not possible, they will need a script for TRT, as having clinically low testosterone would be like living in a state of withdrawal, the way its medically defined, and the symptoms they see in AAS withdrawal, Permanently. That would not be good.

So first, they need to want help if they cannot quit on their own.

Second, the medical focus needs to be on treating for both the psychological effects of losing what they loved about AAS, as well as restoration of normal HPTA function if possible and replacement of healthy hormones if not possible to restore HPTA function.

[Nobuddy]

aren't we all gonna die 12-20-12, anyway

[Critical Mass]

Life is a happy medium. Too much of everything will kill you. The list goes on.

[Kratos]

In Arnold's defense, he had a bicuspid heart valve. That had nothing to do with AAS.

Why? Because he says so? or because he sues anybody who says it's cause of steroid use? A bicuspid aortic valve is likely to decrease exercise tollerance...

Lyle Alzado died of a type of cancer not seen in other AAS users, and likely would have gotten brain cancer either way.
He was the one who said it was because of the steroid use. And there isn't a study to confirm or to deny, so wo knows.

There are also several Pro-Wrestlers on the list who were cocaine addicts.
All wrestlers were cocaine addicts...If I listed all the wrestlers who's hearts popped there wouldn't be enough room on the page.

Dan Duchaine OD'ed on Nubain from what I remember.
cause of death was listed as complications related to polycystic kidney disease, who knows for sure if it was expidited by making himself a lab rat


However, there is not doubt that the cholesterol effects, combined with Blood Pressure raising effects of many steroids cannot increase ones risk for cardiovascular disease.

High doses for many years could also lead to an enlarged left ventricle wall of the heart as well.

So, the truth as always lays somewhere in-between.

.

All I'm saying is there are risks and rewards. I use steroids so don't get me wrong. But knowing they could possibly hurt me down the road. If I thought it were a sure thing to fvck me up, I wouldn't use them. Just think twice and be responsible.

[Kratos]

Why would law enforcement need this study to justify further enforcement when its already got Kratos, Chucky and BJJ preaching the dangers of steroids , which will be used politically (and religiously) to justify further enforcement? If you want freedom of choice in this area, emphasize safety. And why would someone who is convinced they can't be used safely join a board like this unless they have ulterior motives? Or maybe Kratos, Chucky and BJJ welcome further enforcement. Maybe that's their point?

Or maybe Kratos' point in starting this thread was that he just wanted to stir the pot and get an argument/discussion started, and that no matter what anyone posts he's going to take the opposite side..

I think the steroids went to your brain man.

Maybe I thought it was an interesting topic. Or that it's a good idea to keep our goals in check, and respect the drugs we are using.