Ketotifen/Benadryl War Thread

[tballz]

Have we finally come to the decision that benadryl does not up-regulate the receptors therefore is not good to use with clenbuterol or albuterol?

I have always used ketotifen because I have not found anything that makes me think benadryl works.

[happysumo]

Have we finally come to the decision that benadryl does not up-regulate the receptors therefore is not good to use with clenbuterol or albuterol?

I have always used ketotifen because I have not found anything that makes me think benadryl works.

wtf are you talking about??

Benadryl and ketotifen are both antihistamines, i believe they both can help to up-regulate beta-2 receptors...

[ludakris9]

Have we finally come to the decision that benadryl does not up-regulate the receptors therefore is not good to use with clenbuterol or albuterol?

I have always used ketotifen because I have not found anything that makes me think benadryl works.

wtf are you talking about??

Benadryl and ketotifen are both antihistamines, i believe they both can help to up-regulate beta-2 receptors...

the war has begun ...

[toothache]

So how does one know if the benadryl or keto is effective?

Even if you are shaking from clen it does not mean it's still burning fat. The rise in body temp isn't always accurate either.

[bigpapabuff]

Keto is a second generation antihistamine, used to up regulate Beta-2 adrenergic receptors down regulated by Beta-2 adrenergic agonists. IMO it works a ton better than benadryl when you are using cutting chems like clen .

[toothache]

So does benadryl work a little?

[tballz]

So does benadryl work a little?

Nope.....

[tballz]

wtf are you talking about??

Benadryl and ketotifen are both antihistamines, i believe they both can help to up-regulate beta-2 receptors...

Happy no disrespect but that means nothing. And you sound kind of like an idiot.

The active ingredient in benadryl is diphenhydramine hydrochloride which does not up-regulate the receptors. Yes it's an anti-histamine but that doesn't mean shit.

Ketotifen fumarate is the only proven anti-histamine that up-regulates the receptors.

[happysumo]

Happy know disrespect but that means nothing. And you sound kind of like an idiot.

The active ingredient in benadryl is diphenhydramine hydrochloride which does not up-regulate the receptors. Yes it's an anti-histamine but that doesn't mean shit.

Ketotifen fumarate is the only proven anti-histamine that up-regulates the receptors.

Go f#%@ yourself

[bigpapabuff]

I have seen a lot of people use benadryl with success, is it all just placebo effect. I have always been taught that benadryl worked, I just use keto because it works better. So does benadryl really have zero effect on receptors????

[AnimalJ]

Go f#%@ yourself

first time iv laughed out loud reading posts on this forum

[tballz]

Go f#%@ yourself

Brilliant comeback...proved my point. dum dum

[ludakris9]

So how does one know if the benadryl or keto is effective?

Even if you are shaking from clen it does not mean it's still burning fat. The rise in body temp isn't always accurate either.

I completely agree that a rise in body temp (which is usually quite minimal) isn't always the most accurate way to tell if the clen is working, but i was always under the impression that if your beta-2 receptors are completely down regulated due to the clen, then no up-take will occur, meaning no positive OR negative side effect occur. You won't get any shaking (as well as weight loss) if your receptors are completely saturated..

[tballz]

I have seen a lot of people use benadryl with success, is it all just placebo effect. I have always been taught that benadryl worked, I just use keto because it works better. So does benadryl really have zero effect on receptors????

There's nothing out there that proves that it has any effect on the receptors.

[happysumo]

Brilliant comeback...proved my point. dum dum

I didn't have much to say after i did some research...you're right. I'm man enough to point that out...


I'm also man enough to point out that you're a bitch-ass pencil dick

[tballz]

I didn't have much to say after i did some research...you're right. I'm man enough to point that out...


I'm also man enough to point out that you're a bitch-ass pencil dick

Way to do some research, dum dum.

So dum dum, do you or do you not have to ramp down the dosage when coming to the end of a clen cycle?

Let's see what other research dum dum has done.

[aaronk88]

Oh man great time to bring out the popcorn... lol.

[tballz]

I completely agree that a rise in body temp (which is usually quite minimal) isn't always the most accurate way to tell if the clen is working, but i was always under the impression that if your beta-2 receptors are completely down regulated due to the clen, then no up-take will occur, meaning no positive OR negative side effect occur. You won't get any shaking (as well as weight loss) if your receptors are completely saturated..

Usually the shakes are caused by the adrenaline and that is how the stuff works but if the "thermogenic" process is slowed or stopped you may still get that. Thats a nervous system effect and seperate from fatty acid oxidation.

B2's excite the adrenal glands to produce, but the receptor lock and key mechanism can still be downgraded, so adrenaline releases but the receptors are not then working to initiate the fat oxidation.

[happysumo]

Usually the shakes are caused by the adrenaline and that is how the stuff works but if the "thermogenic" process is slowed or stopped you may still get that. Thats a nervous system effect and seperate from fatty acid oxidation.

B2's excite the adrenal glands to produce, but the receptor lock and key mechanism can still be downgraded, so adrenaline releases but the receptors are not then working to initiate the fat oxidation.

ludakris, just call him a pencil dick

[Phate]

wtf are you talking about??

Benadryl and ketotifen are both antihistamines, i believe they both can help to up-regulate beta-2 receptors...

that isn't correct at all, just because 2 compounds are in the same class doesn't mean they perform the same functions, through the same pathways, or even operate in the same system

So how does one know if the benadryl or keto is effective?

Even if you are shaking from clen it does not mean it's still burning fat. The rise in body temp isn't always accurate either.

explain how a rise in body temperature wouldn't indicate THERMOgenic effects are taking place?

Go f#%@ yourself

I didn't have much to say after i did some research...you're right. I'm man enough to point that out...


I'm also man enough to point out that you're a bitch-ass pencil dick

keep up the flaming and your stay here will be short

Way to do some research, dum dum.

So dum dum, do you or do you not have to ramp down the dosage when coming to the end of a clen cycle?

Let's see what other research dum dum has done.

Don't antagonize him or i'll have to lock the thread

I completely agree that a rise in body temp (which is usually quite minimal) isn't always the most accurate way to tell if the clen is working, but i was always under the impression that if your beta-2 receptors are completely down regulated due to the clen, then no up-take will occur, meaning no positive OR negative side effect occur. You won't get any shaking (as well as weight loss) if your receptors are completely saturated..

i would still like for someone to explain how a rise in temperature isn't attributed to the clen

[Walnutz]

Good thread....keep it going.

[jasperhup]

got some keto, how much should i run vs my clen ?

figuring going really light, 20mcg a day of clen, then ramping up a bit. arr stuff, tnx.

[lexruger]

So if you took clen without taking keto for about 3-4 weeks, would you not see a rise on body temp?

[gymnerd]

that isn't correct at all, just because 2 compounds are in the same class doesn't mean they perform the same functions, through the same pathways, or even operate in the same system



explain how a rise in body temperature wouldn't indicate THERMOgenic effects are taking place?






keep up the flaming and your stay here will be short



Don't antagonize him or i'll have to lock the thread




i would still like for someone to explain how a rise in temperature isn't attributed to the clen

I though they were just having some fun?? Either way it kept me entertained.

[tballz]

got some keto, how much should i run vs my clen ?

figuring going really light, 20mcg a day of clen, then ramping up a bit. arr stuff, tnx.

You can ramp up your clen to 150-200mcg/day. After the end of the 2nd week then start with the ketotifen. 1mg/day take at night because it makes you drowsy.

[tballz]

So if you took clen without taking keto for about 3-4 weeks, would you not see a rise on body temp?

nope...your receptors will be down.

[5a_reductase]

Tballz, you got ballz.......Are you ramping down on your clen ? Everyones always used benadryl on my side of town because it was so easy to get a hold of instead of the keto. But, studies don't lie Keto is the way to go.....

[scrappydoo]

is Ketotifin available over the counter at the drugstore?

[gymnerd]

is Ketotifin available over the counter at the drugstore?

AR-R has it bro.

[scrappydoo]

AR-R has it bro.

thanks. I know they do, but it take a few weeks to make it to me in Canada. I just thought if the pharmacy had it, it would be quicker.

[RoadToRecovery]

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly.

This will allow you to use clen for much longer and it'll still have the same effects. Also, since Benadryl is an anti-histamine, and histamines have a direct effect on beta-adrenoreceptors (not just Beta-2?s but all of them), using an anti-histamine will have a direct effect on reducing beta-receptor stimulation, and thus upregulating your beta-receptors.

So tballz, how would you respond to this?

[ferocious bubble]

Have we finally come to the decision that benadryl does not up-regulate the receptors therefore is not good to use with clenbuterol or albuterol?

I have always used ketotifen because I have not found anything that makes me think benadryl works.

benadryl works. keto works just as well except that it helps burn fat and costs 10x more then benadryl.

[tballz]

So tballz, how would you respond to this?

Keto is more specialized. While benedryl is an anti-histamine, and works on all beta-adrenereceptors, including beta-2 receptors.. ketotifen's PRIMARY function is to up-regulate beta-2 receptors.

[tballz]

Tballz, you got ballz.......Are you ramping down on your clen? Everyones always used benadryl on my side of town because it was so easy to get a hold of instead of the keto. But, studies don't lie Keto is the way to go.....

No reason to ramp down. Your receptors are down whether you lessen the dose of clen or not they are still down. So get to the maximum dosage that you can tolerate and ride it out.

[RoadToRecovery]

Keto is more specialized. While benedryl is an anti-histamine, and works on all beta-adrenereceptors, including beta-2 receptors.. ketotifen's PRIMARY function is to up-regulate beta-2 receptors.

So does benadryl work a little?

Nope

You are contradicting your self a bit.

There's nothing out there that proves that it has any effect on the receptors.

Yes there is.

[RoadToRecovery]

Double post.

[tballz]

You are contradicting your self a bit.

Yes I am....but I'm still skeptical about benadryl.

If i'm going to drive a car, and i've got a bmw in my drive way and a chevy nova, im NOT going to take the nova...both will drive. I'm taking the beamer.

[RoadToRecovery]

Yes I am....but I'm still skeptical about benadryl.

If i'm going to drive a car, and i've got a bmw in my drive way and a chevy nova, im NOT going to take the nova...both will drive. I'm taking the beamer.

Weird analogy being that they both do the same thing.

Benadryl is sold as an anti-histimine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes them as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug.

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly.

Reference:

Prog Clin Biol Res. 1981;63:383-8.
Phospholipid methylation: a possible mechanism of signal transduction across biomembranes.
Hirata F, Tallman JF, Henneberry RC, Mallorga P, Strittmatter WJ, Axelrod J"

[tballz]

That's why I called this a war thread. I want people to discuss this.

Great stuff Road.

[RoadToRecovery]

That's why I called this a war thread. I want people to discuss this.

Great stuff Road.

Thanks