Best age to start AAS????

[Chimera44]

Iv been hearing so many different things on this forum and I just want to get some final opinions on the matter. Everything I have ever read and am currently reading all say that a man has reached his hormonal and physical maturity at the age of 20-21 on average, or about 6 years after puberty starts.

Then on this site it seems like everyone (or most everyone) agrees that 25 is when you reach hormonal maturity. I know marcus is pretty set on 25 (much respect to marcus), but I still have yet to find anything that even remotely supports the 25 rule. From what I hear the body is still making minor tweaks until the age of 25 but what percent of maturity are we talking here? If the body is like 95% mature at 21 then why are we waiting 4 years for another 5%?? And if its less mature than that at 20-21 then it should be scientifically significant enough to report a real maturity date of 22 or so.

TELL ME WHERE YOU KNOW YOUR INFO FROM PLZ! I want some hard evidence here not just opinion

Thnx fellas!

[bjpennnn]

24-25 and you have reached your genetic potential with a solid diet/workout routine.

[gunslinger2]

24-25 and you have reached your genetic potential with a solid diet/workout routine.

Agreed 100% and I don't see many 24-25 year olds who have maxed out their genetic potential.

[bjohnson1968]

first off I would like say to you I do not support the use of aas until you have reached your genetic potential but what about a nineteen yr old who has been in the gym since 13-14 religiously 6:am every weekday while other kids were hugging there pillows.
weights 170 lbs 5' 7'' 8% bf strong as a F***ing ox (reps out sets of 255 fb)
Who physically has not grown in 2 yrs. and started puburity in the 4th grade (NO SHIT)
Just courious

Peace

[SlimJoe]

there isnt even a age well to some degree but if your diet is no good and you training matches and you could be 40 and still no good for it but if they are top notch i would say mid 20s

[gunslinger2]

first off I would like say to you I do not support the use of aas until you have reached your genetic potential but what about a nineteen yr old who has been in the gym since 13-14 religiously 6:am every weekday while other kids were hugging there pillows.
weights 170 lbs 5' 7'' 8% bf strong as a F***ing ox (reps out sets of 255 fb)
Who physically has not grown in 2 yrs. and started puburity in the 4th grade (NO SHIT)
Just courious

Peace

Thats all great and everything but I really doubt at 13-14 his diet was spot on plus his test levels will be at an all time high until mid twenties, so why screw it up with AAS? I have never seen anyone in their early 20's that could not gain an extra 8-10 pounds of muscle just by eating a little more. If on the other hand you have 10 years of training behind you and have not gained a pound in 2-3 years no matter what you eat that might be different.

[bjohnson1968]

Thats all great and everything but I really doubt at 13-14 his diet was spot on plus his test levels will be at an all time high until mid twenties, so why screw it up with AAS? I have never seen anyone in their early 20's that could not gain an extra 8-10 pounds of muscle just by eating a little more. If on the other hand you have 10 years of training behind you and have not gained a pound in 2-3 years no matter what you eat that might be different.

So you disagree with puberty taking generally 6 years from beginning until end.

Has had a personal trainer since age of 15 (for athletic purpose) so diet was and is generally in check

peace

[Chimera44]

Personally when guys ask me what age they can safely start to use AAS I have to tell them 21 because I havnt seen any scientific evidence that says otherwise. The 25 rule seems pretty excessive to me. I mean, ya you have to have a good diet and training etc. but just looking at the raw age of hormonal maturity everything says its reached at 20-21.

[gunslinger2]

Don't know how old you are but most of the time when I see people having problems with the 25 year mark its because they themselves are well under 25.

[bjohnson1968]

Personally when guys ask me what age they can safely start to use AAS I have to tell them 21 because I havnt seen any scientific evidence that says otherwise. The 25 rule seems pretty excessive to me. I mean, ya you have to have a good diet and training etc. but just looking at the raw age of hormonal maturity everything says its reached at 20-21.

Technically speaking this would be the normal range correct? Or the average?
To calculate an average its a given that this would require certain people to be above this perameter and certain people to be below this perameter.
Therefore I don't believe anyone can put an accurate age on when is the correct age to start.
However I also would encourage the "Safe" age of 25 when typically all ? has been eliminated just my .02

Peace

[bjohnson1968]

Don't know how old you are but most of the time when I see people having problems with the 25 year mark its because they themselves are well under 25.

Who are you refering to?

[Chimera44]

Technically speaking this would be the normal range correct? Or the average?
To calculate an average its a given that this would require certain people to be above this perameter and certain people to be below this perameter.
Therefore I don't believe anyone can put an accurate age on when is the correct age to start.
However I also would encourage the "Safe" age of 25 when typically all ? has been eliminated just my .02

Peace

sry I ment normal age. You have a good point, but even if it were an average then if the average is 21 then 25 would be seen as an abvious extreme outlier and would be removed from the results. So either way, the medical community seems to agree that 20-21 is the age of normal/average hormonal maturity.

[Chimera44]

Don't know how old you are but most of the time when I see people having problems with the 25 year mark its because they themselves are well under 25.

personally Im 24 and I did my first cycle at 21, but I honestly dont see any problem with guys starting at 21 IMHO. I mean if the body wasnt like 95% developed at the age of 21 and it was more like only 90% then that would be considered scientifically significant and they would ajust the age. So why are we telling all these guys to wait like 4 years for 4-5%? it seems excessive to me.

Anyone who has scientific evidence for 25 please post it because I really want to put this to rest whether Im right or wrong.

[Chimera44]

bump

[BIG_GUNS_21]

To young....Personally I started to young but if I recommend it at any age I would say 25+. IMO its more about the hormonal system development than anything else...But I know a lot of people who would say 21+ (Still a little young IMO.

first off I would like say to you I do not support the use of aas until you have reached your genetic potential but what about a nineteen yr old who has been in the gym since 13-14 religiously 6:am every weekday while other kids were hugging there pillows.
weights 170 lbs 5' 7'' 8% bf strong as a F***ing ox (reps out sets of 255 fb)
Who physically has not grown in 2 yrs. and started puburity in the 4th grade (NO SHIT)
Just courious

Peace

[Hard.On]

24-25
IM a cheater though
I started 23

[daem]

The answer is the same as the answer to this question:

What is the ratio of leprechauns to unicorns?

[Chimera44]

The answer is the same as the answer to this question:

What is the ratio of leprechauns to unicorns?

[smiler]

after 30.... worked for me

[Chimera44]

Ok so no one can refrence any legit sources that supports 25 being the right age?

[BIG_GUNS_21]

If your looking for a "right age" there isnt going to be one. No one would have done a study saying start gear when your 25 and no sooner.

You can look this stuff up if your willing to put in the time. Try looking up the endocrine system and development to try and make and educated guess.

[bjpennnn]

The answer is the same as the answer to this question:

What is the ratio of leprechauns to unicorns?

thats ez its the square root of pikachu

[Chimera44]

If your looking for a "right age" there isnt going to be one. No one would have done a study saying start gear when your 25 and no sooner.

You can look this stuff up if your willing to put in the time. Try looking up the endocrine system and development to try and make and educated guess.

I have researched it but all I keep comming up with is 20-21 honestly (for being fully matured hormonally). Its only here that everyone seems to agree on 25 for some wierd reason. Idk, because no one can tell me why 25 is a good age much less refrence any info to support it, then I have to say that 21 is the soonest one can start using steroids . I mean, puberty is ended so you are fully matured hormonally. Also, the reason that the drinking age is 21 is because the human brain is fully developed at that age. So 21 does seem to be the magical age when the human body is fully matured both physically and mentaly.

Honestly Im a bit dissapointed, I have to say that I thought this forum would put up more of a fight than it did. Sry guys but until someone can actually provide evidence from a legit source to prove me wrong, then Im gonna have to keep telling everyone that 21 is the soonest that someone can start a cycle.

Much respect to the forum and all its contrubuters. Ill keep this thread going so people can still post (and because I have no idea how to close a thread lol).

[PK-V]

24-25 and you have reached your genetic potential with a solid diet/workout routine.

Do not agree with this!

Not in relation to the learning what the body responds well to diet/training etc, but the fact that the guy starting at 120lb has somehow destroyed his genetic potential from starting to young is BS. AAS is an anabolic window not a genetic modifier. Assuming he recovers well there is no benefit of waiting until he reaches his genetic potential naturally. Assuming he has the knowledge of what his body responds well to at that given time.

[marcus300]

In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age.

There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young, ive noticed over the years with many Bodybuilders who have started in their early 20's they have had some major issues with recovery and natural Testosterone , I guess its all down to what you want to risk for the reward but IMHO i think 24-25 yrs old is a good starting point what should reduce the risk of damage. Why would anyone shut down a system what hasnt fully developed is beyond me.

[PK-V]

In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age.

There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young, ive noticed over the years with many Bodybuilders who have started in their early 20's they have had some major issues with recovery and natural Testosterone, I guess its all down to what you want to risk for the reward but IMHO i think 24-25 yrs old is a good starting point what should reduce the risk of damage. Why would anyone shut down a system what hasnt fully developed is beyond me.

I've heard the endocrine system is pretty stable post puberty 16/17+. Prove me wrong!



(no ban please)

[marcus300]

I've heard the endocrine system is pretty stable post puberty 16/17+. Prove me wrong!



(no ban please)

Go and do some research you will see what I wrote is correct, the main development is up to around 21yrs old but it still grows and develops up to 25yrs old. Hormones are very unstable up to the developing age. At 16 17yrs old hormones are just getting started and are not stable by a long way.

Its always the young guys who have started gear early what always try and state is ok to cycle at such a young age but with age you will understand more and become more wise in this area, ive seen some nasty stuff and some close friends who have battled with low test due to starting to young, its very common just take a look around here to see how many younger guys are suffering problems.

If you think its fine and your not intersted in the sides your risking thats your decision.

[PK-V]

Go and do some research you will see what I wrote is correct, the main development is up to around 21yrs old but it still grows and develops up to 25yrs old. Hormones are very unstable up to the developing age. At 16 17yrs old hormones are just getting started and are not stable by a long way.

Its always the young guys who have started gear early what always try and state is ok to cycle at such a young age but with age you will understand more and become more wise in this area, ive seen some nasty stuff and some close friends who have battled with low test due to starting to young, its very common just take a look around here to see how many younger guys are suffering problems.

If you think its fine and your not intersted in the sides your risking thats your decision.

not carving anything in stone marcus just sparking debate, just as a matter of interest at what age did you start, if you don't mind sharing?

[Chimera44]

Marcus youre just the man I wanted to hear from. I know youre very passionate about this topic so I was looking foward to your opinion. I have researched this up and down and all around, and I cant find anything that says that the body is still making minor adjustments until 25. Please tell me where I can find this information. How close to 100% is it at 21? Because it has to be around 95% at least or otherwise it would be considered scientifically significant enough for the medical community to change the age of full development from 21 to a higher age. So why are we waiting 4 years for another 4-5%?? Also, the drinking age is 21 because that is when the human brain is fully developed. Everything I find says that 21 is when you're done developing.

Please dont just copy and paste from your other threads because Iv read them already. I really want to be shown evidence beyond a resonable doubt that says that it is really as horriffic as everyone says it is to start at 21. Im not flaming you at all because I respect you, but Im deffinitely asking you to finally produce hard evidence to support everyones claims.

Much respect
Chimera

[marcus300]

Marcus youre just the man I wanted to hear from. I know youre very passionate about this topic so I was looking foward to your opinion. I have researched this up and down and all around, and I cant find anything that says that the body is still making minor adjustments until 25. Please tell me where I can find this information. How close to 100% is it at 21? Because it has to be around 95% at least or otherwise it would be considered scientifically significant enough for the medical community to change the age of full development from 21 to a higher age. So why are we waiting 4 years for another 4-5%?? Also, the drinking age is 21 because that is when the human brain is fully developed. Everything I find says that 21 is when you're done developing.

Please dont just copy and paste from your other threads because Iv read them already. I really want to be shown evidence beyond a resonable doubt that says that it is really as horriffic as everyone says it is to start at 21. Im not flaming you at all because I respect you, but Im deffinately asking you to finally produce hard evidence to support everyones claims.

Much respect
Chimera

If you do some research on the HPTA, hormones and growth within the body will see solid evidence. You are correct the main development is up to and around 21 yrs old but this isnt 100% because many people stop growing and developing at different stages and ages. Ive also spoken to my Endo regarding this issue and he stated the same that the hormonal system isn't fully developed and matured until the average age of around 25, that isnt a magic number thats the average of the outcome of studies.

I've personally seen to many younger BB's suffer with problems due to starting to young for it not to be an issue, the evidence is overwhelming IMHO. Please do some serious research on growth and hormones within the human body especially the HPTA and you will come across data supporting the above.

With many younger bodybuilders they aren't even ready to cycle, they have no idea how to eat or even train correctly, its hard for them to hear this but its true.

[Chimera44]

OK NOW IM DIRECTLY CALLING YOU OUT MARCUS!! IM CALLING YOU OUT TO SHOW ME AND THIS ENTIRE FORUM THAT YOU REALLY DO KNOW WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT. I want you to produce substantial evidence to support your claims on this topic. either post a link, or tell us where to find it. Do not post it here because you could easily taylor the info to suit your case. Im doing this because you copy and paste the same stuff over and over again without even reading the posts. IM CALLING YOU OUT TO DEFFEND YOUR REPUTATION ON THIS FORUM AS A KNOWLEGABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION!!

now Im flaming you lol
Chimera

PS. yes I totaly expect to be banned after this for some reason or another, but im not worried, this is my last series of posts on this forum anyways lol

[marcus300]

Ok now im directly calling you out marcus!! Im calling you out to officially produce any substantial evidence to support your claims.

LOL you want me to do your research,

go and do some serious research properly in the areas ive shown you,

I take it from your immaturity your a newbie and I must of told you was doing it all wrong lol and you got the hump! if your happy risking damage you go ahead and use what ever you like but this board try's to give the best possible advice especially regarding your health and AAS.

Let me guess 120lbs 5ft11" 18yrs old

[Hard.On]

Marcus youre just the man I wanted to hear from. I know youre very passionate about this topic so I was looking foward to your opinion. I have researched this up and down and all around, and I cant find anything that says that the body is still making minor adjustments until 25. Please tell me where I can find this information. How close to 100% is it at 21? Because it has to be around 95% at least or otherwise it would be considered scientifically significant enough for the medical community to change the age of full development from 21 to a higher age. So why are we waiting 4 years for another 4-5%?? Also, the drinking age is 21 because that is when the human brain is fully developed. Everything I find says that 21 is when you're done developing.

Please dont just copy and paste from your other threads because Iv read them already. I really want to be shown evidence beyond a resonable doubt that says that it is really as horriffic as everyone says it is to start at 21. Im not flaming you at all because I respect you, but Im deffinitely asking you to finally produce hard evidence to support everyones claims.

Much respect
Chimera

Drinking age in Canada is 19
I guess we develop much faster then you

[Chimera44]

ok wow marcus thnx for defending your reputation lmao! Btw Im 24, 5'4, 175lbs 9% bf. And no my height has nothing to do with gear at all. My parents are very short and I ended up as tall as them. That was seriously the most dissapointing response Ive ever seen in my life. I asked you to provide even a little hard evidence and you tell me to do my own research. That is the universal way to say "you called my bluff". That tells me that you really dont know what you are talking about. I have researched this topic endlessly trust me, I have been to the medical library and all over the net trying to dig this up and I havnt turned up anything that hints that you might be right.

Thnx for finally proving me right everyone!
Take care of yourselfs!

[gunslinger2]

In humans your Endocrine system is not fully functional until an average age of 25yrs, although the main development is up to around 21yrs it still fluctuates a little bit up to its fully functional age.

There is a risk of permanently damaging your HPTA if you take AAS to young, ive noticed over the years with many Bodybuilders who have started in their early 20's they have had some major issues with recovery and natural Testosterone, I guess its all down to what you want to risk for the reward but IMHO i think 24-25 yrs old is a good starting point what should reduce the risk of damage. Why would anyone shut down a system what hasnt fully developed is beyond me.

I could not agree more.

[amcon]

its simple the age you get diet, work out splits and your goals all in line and working perfectly