Worth it?

[kisektah1]

hey guys, i was planning to do a Test e, Anavar cycle but i'm unable to get var. So i was thinking of stanazol with the test, but its kind of expensive so should i either do:

Cycle:
1 – 12 Test E 500mg/wk (2x mon/ thur)
8 - 14 Stanazol 50mg/ED

or just a

Cycle:
1 – 12 Test E 500mg/wk (2x mon/ thur)

Will there be much of a difference? Cause the stana is going to cost the same or even more than the test e by itself. Will the gains be the same or will i get leaner and harder with the Stana??


PCT: (10.5 days after last shot)
14 - 18 Clomid 75/50/50/50
14 - 18 Nolva 40/40/20/20
+ Some Tribulus
+ Clen ( 2 weeks on 2 weeks off - up to 120mg)

current stats:
I'm 32, 5'11" tall, weigh 210 lbs, BF 15% (aprox), first cycle, 4 years training.

Thanks

[HawaiianPride.]

At 15% BF, you won't notice much from the Stan buddy. I'd let the test do it's thing solo and toss the Trib from PCT.

[kisektah1]

thank you.

At what bf% would stanazol do much?

[HawaiianPride.]

Sub 10% you'll notice all the benefits it can serve.

[The.Student]

At 15% BF, you won't notice much from the Stan buddy. I'd let the test do it's thing solo and toss the Trib from PCT.

Don't want to steal the thread from the OP, but I was thinking of adding some Trib to my PCT, though I know you have some great knowledge Hawaiian, so why would you toss Trib from a PCT regime? I'm interested to know.

[suttie]

proviron is bes used in pct along with nolvadex and clomid imo

[Sector]

proviron is bes used in pct along with nolvadex and clomid imo

If you use proviron or any other steroid then you are not post cycle. Post means after. You are still introducing androgens that will cause negative feedback. The use of any androgens while trying to restore the HTPA is a very bad idea even if its something as mild as proviron.

Im sure somebody else will chip in on that.

OP - Hawaiian is right, at 15% BF you wont see much use out of Winny. I would recheck your BF towards the end of your cycle and possible finish the last 4 weeks with it if you are sub 12%.

[Bio-Active]

Sub 10% you'll notice all the benefits it can serve.

Agreed don't waste the money on the winnie unless you are below 10 % body fat.

[kisektah1]

thanks for the info guys.

Also Stanazol affects hair -loss so i dont think im going to use it. Any other orals which have a simular effect to anavar or stanazol?? Because atm im thinking of just doing the test e, but id love to take something to harden and lean up? Any ideas?

[kisektah1]

bump...

[Bio-Active]

thanks for the info guys.

Also Stanazol affects hair -loss so i dont think im going to use it. Any other orals which have a simular effect to anavar or stanazol?? Because atm im thinking of just doing the test e, but id love to take something to harden and lean up? Any ideas?

Nothing will harden and lean you up like diet!

[suttie]

proviron has no effect on hpta shut dowm ,ill plost a proven study soon.

[HawaiianPride.]

proviron has no effect on hpta shut dowm ,ill plost a proven study soon.

Please do...

[D7M]

proviron has no effect on hpta shut dowm ,ill plost a proven study soon.

And then I'll post a study that shows proviron can be suppressive

[suttie]

I've been gathering intel from various studies and abstracts on proviron to determine if it is in fact suppressive to hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - recovery. I finally found some relevant data that clearly shows that Proviron taken at low dosages (25-50mg's) ed does not effect plasma FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - , lh - leutenizing hormone - and testosterone levels...So, one can conclude from the followng study that Proviron, if taken post-cycle to prevent estrogen rebound should not hinder recovery!

Int Urol Nephrol. 1978;10(3):251-6. Related Articles, Links


Mesterolone treatment of patients with pathospermia.

Szollosi J, Falkay GY, Sas M.

The response to Mesterolone, in doses of 25 mg/day, was examined in 42 pathospermic patients. Treatment lasted for 100 days. The pronounced response to the Mesterolone treatment was observed in hypozoo- and oligozoospermia with low initial fructose content in the ejaculate. Fructose content attained its normal range after the treatment. During the therapeutic period 11 wives became pregnant. The authors conclude that Mesterolone does not influence plasma FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - , lh - leutenizing hormone - and testosterone levels , it has only peripheral effects.

[D7M]

And as I promised (although I recognize that this study was done using much higher doses than one would use in PCT):

The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).Itil TM, Michael ST, Shapiro DM, Itil KZ.

Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels . The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.

[suttie]

nice post buddy but as i said proviron is good in pct and dont effect hpta shut down or risks a non recovery (at 25mgs-50mgs per day) it realy help while on pct imo and can even be run or tapperard a few weeks past pct rarther than just totaly comeing off and maybe risk crashing ,this is just my opinian on this mater and i find it works great for me .

[suttie]

also who would use 350-400mg of proviro per day? in a sence it makes your study useless becasue it has no place in the bodybuliding world at that dose.

[D7M]

also who would use 350-400mg of proviro per day? in a sence it makes your study useless becasue it has no place in the bodybuliding world at that dose.

I don't know about that.

I will concede, as per my original caveat, that it's not the best study for proviron in pct use,

but why the hell wouldn't someone use it at 350mg/day?

obviously they gave that dose in a study, of course a BB could take that dose.

[D7M]

Anyway, I'm not saying NOT to use proviron in pct.

I personally think that's a very personal thing, to how YOU react to proviron.

I'll add that one of the best reasons for using it in pct is its high binding affinity to SHBG

[suttie]

I don't know about that.

I will concede, as per my original caveat, that it's not the best study for proviron in pct use,

but why the hell wouldn't someone use it at 350mg/day?

obviously they gave that dose in a study, of course a BB could take that dose.

well the reason why someone wouldent use it at 350mgs per day is the exact reason you posted that study up (hpta shut down) remeber were talkeing about useing it in pct here 350mgs per day can shut hpta at that dose and thats the very reason why someone would not use it at 350mgs .

[HawaiianPride.]

Nolva and Clomid will suffice during a PCT, I see no reason to find a way to enhance your PCT with these 2 SERMS stacked unless you have bunk products. If anything, use HCG to enhance it and use Prov for the 4 reasons it was designed to do.

[suttie]

my finding are from personal experacne and what works for me .

[kisektah1]

Guys can Proviron be taken for the duration of the cycle to keep off bloat and to lower estrogen? Is it a replacement to Arimidex ?

wk 1 - 12: 50mg ED

[tboney]

proviron has no effect on hpta shut dowm ,ill plost a proven study soon.

Your just plain wrong.....

[HawaiianPride.]

Guys can Proviron be taken for the duration of the cycle to keep off bloat and to lower estrogen? Is it a replacement to Arimidex ?

wk 1 - 12: 50mg ED

I wouldn't call it a "replacement". If you choose to use it primarily as an AI, using it for a whole 12 weeks will actually elevate liver values to a degree. Less than a 17AA though. That's the downside while using it "on". The plus side is yes, it will assist in anti-bloating properties and using it with test will prevent estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme, preventing any other hormone from interacting with it and forming estrogen. It also enhances the potency of Test.

[kisektah1]

So it does stop bloat. If it is taken for the whole 12 weeks with Milk Thistle, it shouldn't have much of a negative effect on the liver. If gyno symptoms occur even while using Proviron , nolva is still needed at 20mg ED until they stop (itchy nipples)?

Also is the Dosage 50mg ED - Proviron, sufficent for the cycle?

Thanks HawaiianPride, your very knowledgeabe lol

[HawaiianPride.]

So it does stop bloat. If it is taken for the whole 12 weeks with Milk Thistle, it shouldn't have much of a negative effect on the liver. If gyno symptoms occur even while using Proviron , nolva is still needed at 20mg ED until they stop (itchy nipples)?

Also is the Dosage 50mg ED - Proviron, sufficent for the cycle?

Thanks HawaiianPride, your very knowledgeabe lol

50mg ED is crap. When I run it, it's at least 100mg ED. I'd stack the Thistle with Liv52. Yes run a small dose of Nolva if anything occurs, 10mg ED.

[kisektah1]

Even for a low 500mg p/w test e cycle, keep the dosage at 100mg of Proviron ED?

Supplimenting, Nizoral and Minoxidil should stop the hair loss from Proviron?

Thanks

[HawaiianPride.]

Even for a low 500mg p/w test e cycle, keep the dosage at 100mg of Proviron ED?

Supplimenting, Nizoral and Minoxidil should stop the hair loss from Proviron?

Thanks

Keeping Prov higher then your test will not be an issue. If your worried about it, sure run it at 50mg. Anything below and I suggest you not even use it during your cycle.

Yes you can use Nizoral, or Fina, Propecia, DHT blocker/hair loss shampoo with the DHT blocking properties ect.

[kisektah1]

Thanks