My new proposed cycle.. thoughts and opinions..

**MACHINE5150** · 04-06-2011, 06:12 PM

Okay.. stats first..
when i start on May 1st.. i should be 220-225lbs and 15%BF.. 5'11" 28
previous cycles:
2003 600mg Test400/300mg Norma Hellas (loved those) - 10 weeks
2004 800mg Test400/400mg mexican deca - 10 weeks
2010 600mg Test E/400mg Deca/100mg ProvironED -12 weeks (kickstarted with 100mg ABombs first 5 weeks)

ended last cycle in late NOV.. so it will be 5 months off total, i was originally thinking of doing 100mg prop / 50 mg Tren A ED for 8 weeks.. now i am thinking of doing something along the lines of Ronnies Reload/Deload thing and wanted to see what you guys think..

Weeks 1-8 (may 1st-june 25th) 700mg Prop / 350mg NPP
Weeks 9-10 (June 26th - July 9th) 120mg Torem / 40mg Tamox ED
Weeks 11-18 (July 10th - Sept 4th) 700mg Prop / 525mg NPP
Weeks 19-20 (Sept 18th- Oct 1st) 120mg Torem / 40mg Tamox ED
Weeks 21-24 (Oct 2nd - Oct 30th) 60mg Torem / 20mg Tamox ED

Been cutting the 2 months prior to starting.. so i figured i could put on some good mass with the NPP and then chizzle it down with the tren at the end.. hoping to get to 240lbs 13% BF.. Thats my goal anyways.. all constructive criticism is welcome..

**higgy** · 04-06-2011, 06:22 PM

You're too young to be cycling....head to the diet section...just fvckin with ya

Personally I'd go with the prop and tren ....this will be my next cycle once I brew the tren
but with your cycle experience the reload/deload might work better for u, cause of the larger mg you've already ran

**higgy** · 04-06-2011, 06:33 PM

Sorry....double post

**MACHINE5150** · 04-06-2011, 06:56 PM

^^^I'm sligtly nervous on if the prop is going to be too painful.. i don't mind the ED injections.. but if the prop is painful i am going to be one soar mother ****er.. rugby starts again in september and i don't want to be on tren and try to play rugby as from what i heard it kills endurance, which would be a game ender when it comes to rugby.

**higgy** · 04-06-2011, 07:02 PM

Yea but if u start in may u should be good for rugby.

And the prop will be painful, u need to get used to alternate injection sites cause glutes and shoulders will be sore for at least four days after shot...this is my experience with prop.

**MACHINE5150** · 04-06-2011, 07:14 PM

^^yeah.. thinking about doing chest, delt, quad, glute rotating right to left for each.. so 8 spots.. virtually doing only one a week. i am also hoping that if i add 1.25ml of oil plus .75ml 100mg NPP to the 1ml of 100mg/ml prop that it will be somewhat less painful... hoping so anyways.

**dec11** · 04-06-2011, 07:16 PM

not fussed on it mate.
tbh, id just run an 8-10wk cycle of 700mg prop with 525mg npp or 350mg tren a.

**dec11** · 04-06-2011, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by bighigg337

Yea but if u start in may u should be good for rugby.

And the prop will be painful, u need to get used to alternate injection sites cause glutes and shoulders will be sore for at least four days after shot...this is my experience with prop.

not necessarily, i had HG prop which bit at 1st but became virtually pain free with time

**higgy** · 04-06-2011, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

not necessarily, i had HG prop which bit at 1st but became virtually pain free with time

My ugl prop was painful for the first two or three weeks...but it was also my first time at prop

**Vullfromsc** · 04-06-2011, 07:52 PM

confused at the 2 week mini-pct break thing in the middle of the cycle, why don't you just run hCG on cycle and do it for 12-14 weeks straight through? personally, i think it would benefit you more to do it for 8-10 weeks (hCG on cycle), 4 week pct, then repeat after 1.5-2 months off

**higgy** · 04-06-2011, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Vullfromsc

confused at the 2 week mini-pct break thing in the middle of the cycle, why don't you just run hCG on cycle and do it for 12-14 weeks straight through? personally, i think it would benefit you more to do it for 8-10 weeks (hCG on cycle), 4 week pct, then repeat after 1.5-2 months off

I think it's to minimize the loss of gains....at least that's how I interpret it

**blastedlooger** · 04-06-2011, 08:20 PM

No, he is trying to do slingshot training but he didn't read it correctly obviously. That's too long on cycle if you're doing slingshot. Should be 6wks then 1-2 week deload and you don't have to do pct you just have to lower the amount of anabolics in your system. so do 300mg prop instead of 700mg.

Read up on it more, I only know the basics of it and haven't read it in a while but you're doing it wrong.

**MACHINE5150** · 04-06-2011, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Vullfromsc

confused at the 2 week mini-pct break thing in the middle of the cycle, why don't you just run hCG on cycle and do it for 12-14 weeks straight through? personally, i think it would benefit you more to do it for 8-10 weeks (hCG on cycle), 4 week pct, then repeat after 1.5-2 months off

I was gonig off Ronnies Slingshot method.. the sticky on the top of the Q&A forum

Originally Posted by blastedlooger

No, he is trying to do slingshot training but he didn't read it correctly obviously. That's too long on cycle if you're doing slingshot. Should be 6wks then 1-2 week deload and you don't have to do pct you just have to lower the amount of anabolics in your system. so do 300mg prop instead of 700mg.

Read up on it more, I only know the basics of it and haven't read it in a while but you're doing it wrong.

Not sure what i am reading wrong?? This is directly from his thread:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-to-read-this!

Slingshot Training entails blasting for as long as humanly possible before having to take time off from heavy training. A blast is composed of two training phases-a “reload” and a “deload”. The reload is a higher volume training phase that last 8 weeks and a deload is a lower volume training phase that last 2 weeks. Slingshot training works by reloading with more volume while your on an 8 week anabolic steroid cycle or 8 week pro-hormone cycle, etc. Anabolics have been shown to work best for appoximately 8 weeks. After that point, additional muscle gains slow dramatically and you would need to use higher amounts drugs or supplements to advance further. The problem with that approach is unwanted side effects. So in order to keep making maximum progress you come off a heavy cycle by lowering the amount of anabolics used, do a pct, or bridge with a small dose of anabolics for 2 weeks-all while reducing training volume and protein intake. This 2 week period of reducing volume and protein is called a deload and it encourages receptor sites to become more sensitive to anabolics so that when you return to another (steroid cycle/reload) you'll make more gains with less side effects. To recap: You use more training volume and take in more protein during your 8 week anabolic steroid cycles so you can get the most out of each cycle. This is your reload ! After the reload you begin deloading for 2 weeks by using less training volume, higher reps (12-15) less anabolics and taking in less protein so you can return to another 8 week anabolic cycle/reload 2 weeks later and make continued progress. The cycle continues (reload/deload/reload/deload/reload/deload,etc)

**Vullfromsc** · 04-06-2011, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by blastedlooger

No, he is trying to do slingshot training but he didn't read it correctly obviously. That's too long on cycle if you're doing slingshot. Should be 6wks then 1-2 week deload and you don't have to do pct you just have to lower the amount of anabolics in your system. so do 300mg prop instead of 700mg.

Read up on it more, I only know the basics of it and haven't read it in a while but you're doing it wrong.

interesting.. but isn't doing a "normal" 8-14 week cycle the better route to go? like what benefits would one get from doing something like that? all that i can see happening is diminishing returns from the gear and suppressing the body much more

**MACHINE5150** · 04-06-2011, 08:37 PM

its based on the premiss that your test receptors get clogged up after 8 weeks and that the 2 weeks off gives them time to clear up.. basically if you want the same gains you need to increase dosage after 8 weeks..

**higgy** · 04-06-2011, 08:42 PM

Well if the receptors clear up during the two weeks, couldn't u keep the dose the same during the following eight?

**MACHINE5150** · 04-06-2011, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by bighigg337

Well if the receptors clear up during the two weeks, couldn't u keep the dose the same during the following eight?

yeah.. i was going to.. basically.. just switching from NPP to Tren .. but 350mg Tren A is equivalent to 525mg of NPP (virtually)

**higgy** · 04-06-2011, 09:03 PM

Well with this cycle, you really WONT be ready for rugby

**terraj** · 04-06-2011, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by MACHINE5150

^^^I'm sligtly nervous on if the prop is going to be too painful.. i don't mind the ED injections.. but if the prop is painful i am going to be one soar mother ****er.. rugby starts again in september and i don't want to be on tren and try to play rugby as from what i heard it kills endurance, which would be a game ender when it comes to rugby.

Get HG prop, no pain.

**terraj** · 04-06-2011, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by MACHINE5150

yeah.. i was going to.. basically.. just switching from NPP to Tren .. but 350mg Tren A is equivalent to 525mg of NPP (virtually)

What do you mean?^

You will be shut down pretty hard on this cycle man, regardless of if you go with NPP or Tren, both are brutal like that.

HCG ?

You need to bridge weeks 9 and 10

Back to the drawing board for you mate.

**higgy** · 04-06-2011, 09:57 PM

That part was a joke bro

**stevey_6t9** · 04-06-2011, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by MACHINE5150

its based on the premiss that your test receptors get clogged up after 8 weeks and that the 2 weeks off gives them time to clear up.. basically if you want the same gains you need to increase dosage after 8 weeks..

by clogging up are you meaning down regulate? aas up-regulates the AR. I dont believe the 2 weeks off stuff, whatever slows gains (SHBG, myostatin regulators etc) will take longer then 2 weeks to go back to baseline. Id stick to what dec said.

**blastedlooger** · 04-06-2011, 10:31 PM

I guess you were right actually (sorry haha, i skimmed it just the other day and read the whole thing a while back but guess i got my numbers mixed up). After I read it I decided I would never do it because I'm not going pro. I bet you will see some awesome gains though and I think the method probably does work very well. My progress has almost stalled at my first cycle at 8 weeks. I think you should equate the suppression to being almost a full 16 week cycle and if you're willing to risk that then I think you'll see some awesome gains. I think I read somewhere in the method that you can actually separate deloads into one weeks but do it more frequently so 4/1/4/1 but what you have is probably better if you're doing the mini pct in between. Definitely make a log if you do it please.

**blastedlooger** · 04-06-2011, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

by clogging up are you meaning down regulate? aas up-regulates the AR. I dont believe the 2 weeks off stuff, whatever slows gains (SHBG, myostatin regulators etc) will take longer then 2 weeks to go back to baseline. Id stick to what dec said.

You'll have to read it but the premise is you see the best gains initially and then get diminishing returns. During your deload you lower your protein consumption and training volume so your muscles can fully heal and be more receptive to protein and anabolics and then you kick it on beast mode again and see some more gains like at the beginning of a new cycle.

I'm sure a lot of people have experienced the phenomenon naturally as well. You take a week or two off after some hard training because your sick of it or you hurt yourself and then you come back and perfect the diet again and you have no muscle fatigue because it has fully repaired. It lets you move on to higher weights without plateauing as much. If any of you play basketball you see it a lot with your jumping height. You've been working out your legs or practicing jumping and your jump doesn't increase so you give up. Two weeks later you try again and have added 3 inches to your vertical.

**terraj** · 04-06-2011, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

by clogging up are you meaning down regulate? aas up-regulates the AR. I dont believe the 2 weeks off stuff, whatever slows gains (SHBG, myostatin regulators etc) will take longer then 2 weeks to go back to baseline. Id stick to what dec said.

Hard to say that without giving it a shot, I know we have seen a few guys on Ronnie's theard that speak very highly of the method....

**Blade15** · 04-07-2011, 04:21 AM

Good luck bro...

**MACHINE5150** · 04-07-2011, 07:34 AM

My mind is pretty much made up that I am going to go forward with it. I plan on running HCG at 250 IU E3D through out.. i know it is a bit long, but i think(hope) that the two week (mini)PCT in the middle will aid in my recovery at week 19 since it would not be entirely the same as being shut down for 16-18 weeks.. giving my HPTA a "breath of fresh air" so to speak in the middle of it.. Also the PCT i am running at the end is fairly aggressive, so i am hoping to fully recover. I will be having blood work done before and after to assess recovery, and I will be keeping a log as well so you guys can see my progress.. although i am telling you now that it won't be as in depth as my current cutting log.. that takes too much time to keep updated.. I will fill you guys in a bit later. Thanks for all your input

**dec11** · 04-07-2011, 09:43 AM

i think slingshot is more suited to those on trt tbh. i really dont buy into this recovery break thing at all, it would take alot longer than 2wks to recover from npp, the last time i did deca it took me 4 months to recover so i just cant see what 2wks is going to do.
has down regulation ever been proven? im on 16 months straight now and still can continually gain (slowly) on my trt, kinda dis-proves down regulation for me

anyhow, good luck with your decision.

**Far from massive** · 04-07-2011, 10:04 AM

Machine,

As far as the prop goes, I have brewed my own prop both with GSO and with a 50/50 GSO/EO blend. Myself and everyone else who used the it both ways thought that the 50/50 GSO/EO blend was by far much less painful, while not totally painless it was damn near so where as with the straight GSO it was brutal. So if you are brewing from powder just do a 50/50 mix if you are buying the Prop go ahead and add the EO to the blend. By the way any problems I ever heard about from EO were from shitty not USP EO the EO R######## S##### sells will not cause these problems.

**baseline_9** · 04-07-2011, 10:15 AM

If prop hurts you it hurts you regardless of how it has been brewed.... I did the same brew as above and It killed me for 5 weeks b4 the shots were 'painless'...

Cutting it with GSO, 50:50 helps a lot...

As far as the cycle, why not just run a str8 forward Test P (8 weeks) and NPP (6-7 weeks) cycle....

Get gains - Get Off - And get recovered

I doubt the 2 weeks would do much and you will not recover...

If u wanna do it your way I would simply do 6 weeks and then up the dose for another 4-6

**MBMETC** · 04-07-2011, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by MACHINE5150

^^^I'm sligtly nervous on if the prop is going to be too painful.. i don't mind the ED injections.. but if the prop is painful i am going to be one soar mother ****er.. rugby starts again in september and i don't want to be on tren and try to play rugby as from what i heard it kills endurance, which would be a game ender when it comes to rugby.

running prop now and honestly for me no pain. maybe my gear but no big deal for me at ed injections rotating delts, glutes, quads.

**baseline_9** · 04-07-2011, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by dec11

i think slingshot is more suited to those on trt tbh. i really dont buy into this recovery break thing at all, it would take alot longer than 2wks to recover from npp, the last time i did deca it took me 4 months to recover so i just cant see what 2wks is going to do.
has down regulation ever been proven? im on 16 months straight now and still can continually gain (slowly) on my trt, kinda dis-proves down regulation for me

anyhow, good luck with your decision.

As far as the 'AAS down regulate your AR'... That is incorrect as you say

However there are reports where additional gains drop dramatically after 8 weeks unless the dose of androgens is increased...

I do spose this could be to do with increased metabolic rate (increased mass) and diet not being adjusted...

I will now always be looking into increasing the dose in my cycles after the 6 week point anyway.... Even if it it is with an oral like dbol

**baseline_9** · 04-07-2011, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by MBMETC

running prop now and honestly for me no pain. maybe my gear but no big deal for me at ed injections rotating delts, glutes, quads.

Yeh I should state that my m8 and me both ran exactly the same dose of Test P, both the same stuff (HB, 2/20, carrier GSO:EO 50:50) and my m8 didnt feel the shots one bit...

While I could not walk with 1 ml in my ass

**dec11** · 04-07-2011, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

As far as the 'AAS down regulate your AR'... That is incorrect as you say

However there are reports where additional gains drop dramatically after 8 weeks unless the dose of androgens is increased...

I do spose this could be to do with increased metabolic rate (increased mass) and diet not being adjusted...

I will now always be looking into increasing the dose in my cycles after the 6 week point anyway.... Even if it it is with an oral like dbol

hit the nail on the head. i really believe this is the key rather than, in laymans terms, the gear becoming 'ineffective' due to longevity

**dec11** · 04-07-2011, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

Yeh I should state that my m8 and me both ran exactly the same dose of Test P, both the same stuff (HB, 2/20, carrier GSO:EO 50:50) and my m8 didnt feel the shots one bit...

While I could not walk with 1 ml in my ass

ive said this before, i firmly believe glutes are one of the most painful sites, tried them afew times last year and found it a horrendous and horrible site to use, but strangely enough i can do bi's and traps with no probs?!

**baseline_9** · 04-07-2011, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by dec11

hit the nail on the head. i really believe this is the key rather than, in laymans terms, the gear becoming 'ineffective' due to longevity

Possibly

The link in my siggy(how many calories) is a good way to determin if you are adjusting your diet as required while on or off cycle...

Check it out guys and feed back to me how you get on with it, on/off cycle so that I can improve it

**baseline_9** · 04-07-2011, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by dec11

ive said this before, i firmly believe glutes are one of the most painful sites, tried them afew times last year and found it a horrendous and horrible site to use, but strangely enough i can do bi's and traps with no probs?!

People may squirm but Lats and Chest are my other rotation sites... And TBH are G2G

Not done Bi's or Traps yet LOL

**dec11** · 04-07-2011, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

People may squirm but Lats and Chest are my other rotation sites... And TBH are G2G

Not done Bi's or Traps yet LOL

yeah, i do chest aswell. i dont get where this mentality of 'glutes are best' comes from? seems to be where alot of noobs start injecting also

**Vullfromsc** · 04-07-2011, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

yeah, i do chest aswell. i dont get where this mentality of 'glutes are best' comes from? seems to be where alot of noobs start injecting also

i tried chest once.. did not feel so great. i stick to quad / delt personally.. my quads never have pain. have gone up to 2.5ml in one shot with no issues