Keeping your gains after a cycle.

**scaredycat** · 09-08-2011, 08:34 PM

What % of your gains can you keep with proper pct? The cycle would be my first. Test cyp for8weeks.

**DAAS** · 09-08-2011, 08:40 PM

exactly 31.6734%. IN extremely rare cases 32%

**gym_junki** · 09-08-2011, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by DAAS

exactly 31.6734%. IN extremely rare cases 32%

Lmfao

**DAAS** · 09-08-2011, 08:44 PM

No it all has to do with your diet and work out regimin after words. After a certain amount of time almost every one will start to slack off or become relaxed in there diet and start to loose there gains. Typically they will just cycle again. I dont know every one but I would say that no body dose it once and then dosent want to do it again, once there muscles are less tight and bulky then they once had.

Keep in mind you will always loose some muscle directly after your cycle because your body isnt producing its muscle building hormone, and you arent supplementing. That gap will always cause muscle lose.

**scaredycat** · 09-08-2011, 08:50 PM

Just looking for a ballpark figure here.

**gym_junki** · 09-08-2011, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by scaredycat

Just looking for a ballpark figure here.

Well everyone is different mate it all depends on you.. Depends on how good your pct is depends on how quick your natural test levels recover to support the weight you have gained. Some people get depressed and slack Off during pct and loose half of what they have gained. I push my self as much as I can during pct I still eat at my best train at my best sleep/rest has to be good. So if you get it all right you might keep all the muscle you have gained and just drop the water retention.

**scaredycat** · 09-08-2011, 09:28 PM

Awesome

**dec11** · 09-08-2011, 09:42 PM

test c for 8wks is a waste of time and money and as for keeping gains? unless your very lucky you'll keep precious little, thats the truth

**Dr Pepper** · 09-08-2011, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

test c for 8wks is a waste of time and money and as for keeping gains? unless your very lucky you'll keep precious little, thats the truth

Agreed, 12 week minimum

**gym_junki** · 09-08-2011, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

Agreed, 12 week minimum

Lol It's his first cycle and your telling him 12 weeks minimum

**dec11** · 09-08-2011, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by gym_junki

Lol It's his first cycle and your telling him 12 weeks minimum

actually pepper's not wrong, the OP is stupidily running test c for 8wks, pointless. 10-12wks is ideal

**gym_junki** · 09-08-2011, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

actually pepper's not wrong, the OP is stupidily running test c for 8wks, pointless. 10-12wks is ideal

I agree 10-12 weeks is the way to go, but there's a difference in saying 12 weeks min he might think ahh so it's ok to do 15

**Exevious** · 09-12-2011, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

actually pepper's not wrong, the OP is stupidily running test c for 8wks, pointless. 10-12wks is ideal

So not everyone agrees with ronnie rowland sling shot system in the " you will want to read this:" thread sticky at the top??

I was pretty intrested in this system... and it seems that the drugs do not matter... you can run anything you like...

**gym_junki** · 09-08-2011, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

test c for 8wks is a waste of time and money and as for keeping gains? unless your very lucky you'll keep precious little, thats the truth

I don't agree with you on that one mate.. You can keep heaps of your gains after a cycle

**dec11** · 09-08-2011, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by gym_junki

I don't agree with you on that one mate.. You can keep heaps of your gains after a cycle

define 'heaps'? all i know is that myself and ppl i know outside of this forum have kept very very little from any cycle. too many ppl on here seem to be afraid to admit it for some crazy reason, most 'popular' cycles produce water and off it comes after discontinuing.

**chuckt12345** · 09-09-2011, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by gym_junki

I don't agree with you on that one mate.. You can keep heaps of your gains after a cycle

if your at your genetic peak before cycle your body will always come back down to that weight. Yea if you want to double your diet to keep that weight on maybe, but who is gonna do that when you can just cycle again for 1/10th of the cost. LIke dec11 says,, if everyone could keep their gains why is it that hardly anyone does just one cycle?

**gym_junki** · 09-08-2011, 10:12 PM

I know what your saying mate Iv seen it happen yet im around guys who cycle all the time and they do keep heaps of their gains because they just keep on pushing and eating. I see heaps of people jump on gear train at their best eat really good they put on 10kg of pure muscle then loose it all during or after pct and when I ask them what the f!vk happened they say ahh I couldn't Handel pct so I stoped or I found it hard to eat and train and eat as much as I use to... Some loose motivation because they let the gear get to their head.

**schering** · 09-12-2011, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by gym_junki

they let the gear get to their head.

The biggest problem with steroid use bottom line! Everyones egos get bigger then their muscles and that's where it all starts, especially on these damn forums.

**gymfu** · 09-08-2011, 10:57 PM

Have to agree, 8 weeks gives you no real gains. Go with 12 weeks.

One thing to remember with your gains, part of the weight gain is simply that your muscles fill up with extra fluid and the cells are expanded. You will find that at about 4-6 weeks mark you will start to see a change in your body your muscles will just look better, this is the fullness I'm talking about. This is impossible to keep when you cycle off, the trick is to build new muscle tissue after this 4-6 week mark, this is when your muscles are ready to grow. That's why I will always argue that anything less that 12 is a waste, just not enough time to build new tissue.

gl

**ata1979** · 09-08-2011, 11:39 PM

There is no real ballpark figure. It depends on the individual, the regimen and the substance. If you wanna hear a percentage to make yourself feel better, then I would say 65-70% with proper diet and pct.

**dec11** · 09-09-2011, 08:08 AM

think of it logically, if you keep all of these silly claims of 15-20lbs each cycle and run 3 cycles a year, in three years thats gona be a gain of up to 180lbs, its bullshit and thats the truth whether any of the noobs wanna face up to it or not. thats were this 'oh, steroids will make me massive' BS comes from. very little muscle is built and its a long expensive waiting game.

the only way to keep gains is by staying on, and we all know the price for that, and even that is just holding onto a surplus of water
water on, water off

**Luther1** · 09-09-2011, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by dec11

think of it logically, if you keep all of these silly claims of 15-20lbs each cycle and run 3 cycles a year, in three years thats gona be a gain of up to 180lbs, its bullshit and thats the truth whether any of the noobs wanna face up to it or not. thats were this 'oh, steroids will make me massive' BS comes from. very little muscle is built and its a long expensive waiting game.

the only way to keep gains is by staying on, and we all know the price for that, and even that is just holding onto a surplus of water
water on, water off

The truth that no-one wants to hear or admit! Genuine honesty from a genuine poster imo!

**rockinred** · 09-11-2011, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by dec11

think of it logically, if you keep all of these silly claims of 15-20lbs each cycle and run 3 cycles a year, in three years thats gona be a gain of up to 180lbs, its bullshit and thats the truth whether any of the noobs wanna face up to it or not. thats were this 'oh, steroids will make me massive' BS comes from. very little muscle is built and its a long expensive waiting game.

the only way to keep gains is by staying on, and we all know the price for that, and even that is just holding onto a surplus of water
water on, water off

Hold on man. Lets get this straight here. With proper training and post and diet you WILL keep gains from multiple cycles over an extended period of time. But there will come a point where you body will only genetically allow you to grow and develope to. After that point then what you said is true above. Evryones genetic point is different though.

I just want to clear the air. It is not only water and staying on. I hold my weight at 225 and i would have never been there as fast as the steroids got me there. I started at around 185. i have capped out around there and while i fluctuate up and down in that range, I got to that point with proper training, post and diet.

**dec11** · 09-11-2011, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by rockinred

Hold on man. Lets get this straight here. With proper training and post and diet you WILL keep gains from multiple cycles over an extended period of time. But there will come a point where you body will only genetically allow you to grow and develope to. After that point then what you said is true above. Evryones genetic point is different though.

I just want to clear the air. It is not only water and staying on. I hold my weight at 225 and i would have never been there as fast as the steroids got me there. I started at around 185. i have capped out around there and while i fluctuate up and down in that range, I got to that point with proper training, post and diet.

and you're positive you hadnt reached your genetic limits? and if you read my info correctly you'll see i said FEW people can hold their steroid gains, maybe you're one of them? i also stated that its a long hard game with LITTLE being held after each cycle, i didnt say nothing and you cant argue that the most of weight attained is water, if you think its muscle then you're deluded. please try to not misquote me

**mani_bono** · 09-13-2011, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by dec11

think of it logically, if you keep all of these silly claims of 15-20lbs each cycle and run 3 cycles a year, in three years thats gona be a gain of up to 180lbs, its bullshit and thats the truth whether any of the noobs wanna face up to it or not. thats were this 'oh, steroids will make me massive' BS comes from. very little muscle is built and its a long expensive waiting game.

the only way to keep gains is by staying on, and we all know the price for that, and even that is just holding onto a surplus of water
water on, water off

100% agree, I experienced loosing muscles on PCT and it sucks. it has nothing to do with diet/training/rest. your body is in a catabolic state and you will loose muscle and worst of all you will not make any progress ...
I've decided to go with Slingshot system since I want to compete. I found the slingshot (http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-to-read-this!) the only no BS approach in this forum. all the other recommendations sucks big time!
you have to stay on since building muscle is a time consuming and slow process, 8 weeks or 12 weeks will not build any solid muscle IMO. you have to stay on and get all the help you can for as long as you can.

I don't know about genetic freaks but I know cycling and PCT doesn't work, either I have to forget about steroids or I have to stay on for very long time and give time to my body to stay in an anabolic state all the time and build solid muscles. and you really have to be crazy about bodybuilding to do this, it have a big price to pay ...

**scaredycat** · 09-09-2011, 09:51 AM

Dec11, If its not worth it, why do you cycle?

**dec11** · 09-09-2011, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by scaredycat

Dec11, If its not worth it, why do you cycle?

i dont anymore, i was unfortunate enough to fvck myself up and ended up on trt.

i dont want to go down the 'anti steroids ' path or sound that way but i think ppl have the right to know the 99% of the time outcome from cycling. yeah we all know one or two ppl who seem to get off with it and do well from cycling, but how many more do you know of that dont keep gains and dont recover properly?

i was in the ignorant camp of 'i'll be a beast' when i started, then gradually through this site i became aware of how it works and the more likely outcomes.

im just posting an honest experience and i do know plenty of others disillusioned because they never got what the thought from AAS, and these are mainly degree level fitness professionals with high level competitive sport experience, who know how to diet etc

**juice box** · 09-09-2011, 10:30 AM

I think alot of people make the mistake of going off the test totally ! When am off cycle I still hit test every other week I think it helps keep the gains ...........

**jdavis6618** · 09-09-2011, 10:45 AM

Wouldnt you be able to keep the gains if you continued eating the same amount of food that you ate while on cycle? For example, if your maintenance is 4000K day and you eat 5000k on cycle and continue to eat 5000k after the cycle, your body should be able to keep the gains, correct?

**dec11** · 09-09-2011, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by jdavis6618

Wouldnt you be able to keep the gains if you continued eating the same amount of food that you ate while on cycle? For example, if your maintenance is 4000K day and you eat 5000k on cycle and continue to eat 5000k after the cycle, your body should be able to keep the gains, correct?

no, you havent the amount of extra test you had while on cycle, keep blasting those cals into you and your most likely to end up with fat being stored

**DAAS** · 09-09-2011, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by jdavis6618

Wouldnt you be able to keep the gains if you continued eating the same amount of food that you ate while on cycle? For example, if your maintenance is 4000K day and you eat 5000k on cycle and continue to eat 5000k after the cycle, your body should be able to keep the gains, correct?

no. your body will have that gap after cycle where you dont have test. and are you going to eat that much forever...no. like I said before no one will or can keep it all.

**MR10X** · 09-11-2011, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by jdavis6618

Wouldnt you be able to keep the gains if you continued eating the same amount of food that you ate while on cycle? For example, if your maintenance is 4000K day and you eat 5000k on cycle and continue to eat 5000k after the cycle, your body should be able to keep the gains, correct?

The calories dont matter,if you come off a cycle and stay at the same body weight your muscle cells will shrink because of the nitrogen/protien loss and your fat cells will expand...That is of course with a normal test level and not ones thats inflated with extra test,that would be a small cycle....

**Sicko** · 09-09-2011, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by juice box

I think alot of people make the mistake of going off the test totally ! When am off cycle I still hit test every other week I think it helps keep the gains ...........

What does that mean? are you on self prescribed trt or do you just consider yourself coasting forever?

**dec11** · 09-09-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Sicko

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What does that mean? are you on self prescribed trt or do you just consider yourself coasting forever?

that guy is an idiot, check his other 'clever' posts

***D7M*** · 09-09-2011, 10:59 AM

I'll be honest, I haven't PCT'd in a while since I'm on TRT, but when I did cycle and PCT I still kept some gains. Not all. Not most. But some....AND I have pretty piss poor genetics

I get the point you're making, Dec, and I agree to an extent, but it also sounds a bit exaggerated to me.

If you don't believe me, look at guys on this site that keep their gains. Guys like Reed who blows me--and most people on here--out of the water.

**dec11** · 09-09-2011, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by D7M

I'll be honest, I haven't PCT'd in a while since I'm on TRT, but when I did cycle and PCT I still kept some gains. Not all. Not most. But some....AND I have pretty piss poor genetics

I get the point you're making, Dec, and I agree to an extent, but it also sounds a bit exaggerated to me.

If you don't believe me, look at guys on this site that keep their gains. Guys like Reed who blows me--and most people on here--out of the water.

yeah but your going to encounter ppl like that i did mention that fact, my point is that the vast majority of ppl on here wont have those results, im not exaggerating mate, just telling how ive experienced and seen it

***D7M*** · 09-09-2011, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by dec11

yeah but your going to encounter ppl like that, my point is that the vast majority of ppl on here wont have those results, im not exaggerating mate, just telling how ive experienced and seen it

That's cool and I respect your opinion.

True, peeps like Reed are genetic freaks. But that's not to say everyone who does PCT is just going to loose EVERYTHING. "water on, water off". If you can't build any muscle with steroids , and you're just gaining and loosing water, then somethings wrong.

But even besides the genetic freaks, I know guys in person who compete, PCT and don't loose gains. I know regular gym rats who don't completely deflate.

Once again, I'm not saying that the average steroid user will keep ALL their gains. Of course not. But he should be able to keep some.

**dec11** · 09-09-2011, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by D7M

That's cool and I respect your opinion.

True, peeps like Reed are genetic freaks. But that's not to say everyone who does PCT is just going to loose EVERYTHING. "water on, water off". If you can't build any muscle with steroids , and you're just gaining and loosing water, then somethings wrong.

But even besides the genetic freaks, I know guys in person who compete, PCT and don't loose gains. I know regular gym rats who don't completely deflate.

Once again, I'm not saying that the average steroid user will keep ALL their gains. Of course not. But he should be able to keep some.

unfortunately that some never seems enough, and thats when alot get caught up in a world of shit by going overboard with it.

just thought the inexperienced or beginners should know all the facts. ive said my piece and will bow out now.

keep on rockin in the free world

**chuckt12345** · 09-09-2011, 11:50 AM

if you are at your genetic potential long term weight gained by AAS is gonna come off. And if you do keep some of that weight then its from better/bigger diet/exercise.
if you want to eat 5000 calories a day to keep the weight gained from a cycle then your not keeping gains made from AAS your keeping gains because your eating that much more. Just my 2 cents im not stating facts or anything,, im sure there are people that keep muscle soley from aas but major majority id say no.

**jdavis6618** · 09-11-2011, 06:11 AM

Sorry for old bump, but I have another question. I understand that no one ever keeps ALL the gains they make while on, but you do keep a certain amount correct? For instance, you start cycle at 190 10% and end it at 210 13%. Even if you never cycled again, you would hold on to 5-10 lbs of that weight as long as you kept eating/lifting, right?