20 weeks deca 200mg and Test E 200mg plus masterone 200mg to repair ligaments confuse

[yannick35]

deca and testo E produce collagen, now imagine with the addition of prolo you create an inflammation so big that all the collagen produced by the steroids go to fix the ligament and tendon.

This is very possible.

[Bonaparte]

You mean IV injection. IM or SQ is painful and dangerous, causes osmotic and oncotic edema which usually leads to cellulitis andante times compartment syndrome

Correct. Fixed.

[gearbox]

deca and testo E produce collagen, now imagine with the addition of prolo you create an inflammation so big that all the collagen produced by the steroids go to fix the ligament and tendon.

This is very possible.

there has to be someone out there that has tried this and can give us results

[yannick35]

You mean IV injection. IM or SQ is painful and dangerous, causes osmotic and oncotic edema which usually leads to cellulitis andante times compartment syndrome

Sub q and ligament strenghtening ??????? i do not understand sorry, prolo injections must be given where the ligament and tendon attach to the bone, where does sub q fit in to all of this?

I looked at your osmotic oncoitic edema and honestly i never saw this before.

[yannick35]

there has to be someone out there that has tried this and can give us results

Sure there is you just gotta find the right professional to treat you, that is the real task at hand.

[yannick35]

man i ran it 16wks with my trt, it doesnt work period. AAS cant repair connective tissues plain and simple. hell, even HGH doesnt either, i tried that for 7mths and still have my ailments.

im telling you now theres no point in trying to convince yourself, it will not work.

rotator cuff injury, both wrists, fingers and thumb ligaments, groin strain, something deep in my left trap, knee ligament trouble, recurring elbow trouble. i saw relief while on but back to square one when i came off

How did you injure yourself, i have re read all of this and its quite amazing, TRT has worked wonders on my wrist, actually making my grip stronger too, i read this was an effect of TRT on a site not sure where but i started laughing out loud when reading this, but when it really happened i was really amazed. Lot of theses ailments might be fixed by prolotherapy, all that is ligament and tendon related for sure. I still have a bit of lower back problems but almost gone 100% now, my upper back is giving me problems mostly due to ligament laxity, and my hip even if its still snaps the pain is gone, this was all due to prolotherapy treatments. TRT made a huge difference in my pains, most of them are almost gone. I guess that it might work for some people and for others not.

I saw studies on the internet were they gave women 50mg per 2 weeks and after a while it imporved there bone growth. I also read that a few people take small dose of deca and make it part of there TRT with great results, like 75mg per week.

After my 20 weeks i will surely look into this and see if i can do something similar.

[dec11]

mate if your trainer is selling you the stuff he only has one thing on his mind, money!

go for it if you want but dont build your hopes up

[HitIt]

if testosterone converts to estrogen via the aromatse enzyme, and estrogen helps with collagen synthesis, then why can't test benefit joints/ligaments by proxy? (as long as aromatase is not being killed via ai)

nandrolone doesn't "heal" directly, but why can't connective tissue with more water content (if that is what nandrolone does) heal more easily/faster than without help?

just some curiosities i have

i have found an increase in sodium intake (from around 2g to around 4 g per day) helps my rotator feel better

[yannick35]

if testosterone converts to estrogen via the aromatse enzyme, and estrogen helps with collagen synthesis, then why can't test benefit joints/ligaments by proxy? (as long as aromatase is not being killed via ai)

nandrolone doesn't "heal" directly, but why can't connective tissue with more water content (if that is what nandrolone does) heal more easily/faster than without help?

just some curiosities i have

i have found an increase in sodium intake (from around 2g to around 4 g per day) helps my rotator feel better

Very good points, problem with ligaments and tendons is that the blood supply to them is very weak reason again for prolo to cause an inflammation and a blood rush to that region to bring nutrient to fix the injured area.

Ligaments and tendons are made from collagen, when inflammation is cause via prolotherapy new collagen is made fibroblast and deposit on the injured ligament and tendon to strenghten them and make them stronger and if laxed smaller.

[yannick35]

mate if your trainer is selling you the stuff he only has one thing on his mind, money!

go for it if you want but dont build your hopes up

The problem with this is that i get amazing results, only with TRT at 200mg of test E per 10 days, which i do not understand yourself being on TRT not getting this benefit, TRT is for life not a cycle like a steroid cycle. This is why i am so amazed getting such relief and results at 200mg, my medical doctor did tell me that it will fix my injures too, for the money well test E injection is covered by my insurance so i pay 9$ for a 5ml bottle, this if 50 days of injection at 200mg every 10 days.

Has i said deca has not kicked in yet but i can only imagine the benefits it will when it does. I kind of feel sad dec11 that you did not get any benefits from regular TRT and a deca cycle.

Has far has GH goes i did read some medical studies that say its a bit of a waste of money and testosterone is the way to go.

The worst thing is that my medical doctor put me on TRT like that i was feeling weak fatigue pains and more, i was at first very septic, when he told me all the benefits of test E, but when those benefits started kicking in at around the third week i was very amazed.

I did have weak hands, pain in them, weak wrists, not even able to do a chin up without shaking, all my weights went down when i trained and the energy was just not there, i also had huge pains in the traps that would not go away, in the end i had to go to this trigger point specialist to get the scar tissue broken down every week for some relief. But after 3 weeks on TRT all of this was gone, my hand grip became stronger, i am now able to chin myself up 6 times and all my weights have gone up.

[dec11]

The problem with this is that i get amazing results, only with TRT at 200mg of test E per 10 days, which i do not understand yourself being on TRT not getting this benefit, TRT is for life not a cycle like a steroid cycle. This is why i am so amazed getting such relief and results at 200mg, my medical doctor did tell me that it will fix my injures too, for the money well test E injection is covered by my insurance so i pay 9$ for a 5ml bottle, this if 50 days of injection at 200mg every 10 days.

Has i said deca has not kicked in yet but i can only imagine the benefits it will when it does. I kind of feel sad dec11 that you did not get any benefits from regular TRT and a deca cycle.

Has far has GH goes i did read some medical studies that say its a bit of a waste of money and testosterone is the way to go.

The worst thing is that my medical doctor put me on TRT like that i was feeling weak fatigue pains and more, i was at first very septic, when he told me all the benefits of test E, but when those benefits started kicking in at around the third week i was very amazed.

I did have weak hands, pain in them, weak wrists, not even able to do a chin up without shaking, all my weights went down when i trained and the energy was just not there, i also had huge pains in the traps that would not go away, in the end i had to go to this trigger point specialist to get the scar tissue broken down every week for some relief. But after 3 weeks on TRT all of this was gone, my hand grip became stronger, i am now able to chin myself up 6 times and all my weights have gone up.

im not getting through to you at all mate, it wont work period. you are holding water, do not be lulled into a false sense of security. your doctor is seriously talking shit for $$$

maybe someone else with experience will chime in and back me up. some AAS can help with connective tissue temporarily but lack the ability to make it a permanent fix.

[yannick35]

I hear ya dec11 but like you said, from the results i got from a mear dosage of TRT and my pains went away i cannot see how deca , test e combined with prolo treatment cannot be a permanent fix.

If it was not then my pelvic would be all over the place going wake and unaligned like it did when i went to the stupid chiroprator who got me worst.

BTW is that your cat in the avatar, LOL i got 4 myself little critters.

[dec11]

I hear ya dec11 but like you said, from the results i got from a mear dosage of TRT and my pains went away i cannot see how deca, test e combined with prolo treatment cannot be a permanent fix.

If it was not then my pelvic would be all over the place going wake and unaligned like it did when i went to the stupid chiroprator who got me worst.

BTW is that your cat in the avatar, LOL i got 4 myself little critters.

do a search on studies mate and you will see that AAS are not used for this because they cant repair these type problems. medically AAS are used for muscle building in cases like muscle wasting, thats what they do. operations are the only thing that can fix tendons/ligaments. i did get relief while on but went back to the usual condition afterwards

yeah, thats my pixiebob tom, hes a big guy and often sits like that lol

[yannick35]

do a search on studies mate and you will see that AAS are not used for this because they cant repair these type problems. medically AAS are used for muscle building in cases like muscle wasting, thats what they do. operations are the only thing that can fix tendons/ligaments. i did get relief while on but went back to the usual condition afterwards

yeah, thats my pixiebob tom, hes a big guy and often sits like that lol

Dec11 you must understand where i come from, i suffered for 8 years of chronic pains before finding my first prolotherapist. I did it all from physio to sport medecin to chiroprator, the later being the worst and useless of them all.

There is was being a lot worst back in 2008 then i was a few years back, many and all failed attempts at going back to the gym my pelvic was always getting out of alignement, i must have received around 300 chiro ajustments in the upper neck and lower back, 3 times per week for a period of a year and a half. This in term causing me a snapping hip in the process. That chiroprator was never fined and i would have lost brining him to court.

I suffered a great depression due to my job my fahter dying of cancer and very slow death in 2006 and losing a pet that i loved from all my heart. I almost lost my girlfriend because each year when we went on vacation i could never last, due to chronic pains, the last year we cut everything short because i was in chronic pain.

Since there is no surgery for laxed ligament i needed to find someone who could repair the damage done when power lifting and worst the stupid chiro damage. I found prolotherapy.

I started to reseach this topic to death and all i found was negative feedbacks, medical studies knocking it, then i found the hauser caring medication website and bough a book called prolo your pain away.

I went to this prolo he was an amateur but in that process even with bad prolo treatments and under dosage he was able to stablize my pelvic and remove 80% of my pain.

I went to see another prolo that was closer to my house and also did some PRP, i am now able to lift weight again, and since the addition of TRT, my life has turned around.

Dec11 has much has i respect your opinion and your beleives, and i thank you so much for your input, i once again must make the jump alone.

Like prolotherapy i have read mixed reviews about deca , but Ross Hauser the prolo guru in the USA injects testosterone and GH with great results, he has studies proof of ligaments getting stronger and fixing issues from laxed ligaments. Also at caring medication Ross Hauser will put is patience on TRT, to boost the immune system to the max because prolo will work at 50% of less when the immune system is not primed.

He does not use deca durabolin . I have read some very amazing studies from guys who used deca post shoulder and knee surgery and this got them back on track fast.

I can keep you guys posted on how it goes, 20 weeks is a very small amount of time at therapeutique dosage. I cannot see how the addition of deca and test e at 200mg per week cannot help in healing the body, boosting immune system has done in HIV patience, red blood cell = more oxygen to the body, nitrogen retention-= more protein = more collagen = more repair, ligaments are made from protein and collagen.

I will cut out masteron because i think you are right i am taken on a bit of a ride here, and its freaken expensive, but deca i can use the price is good for a 10 week cycle.

Since starting TRT 6 weeks ago, my lower back muscles are a lot bigger and i feel my stabilizer muscles are too, i have been told that steroids work on core muscles and deca being the best.

I have injected deca twice now 400mg the first week and 200mg the second week, its impossible to feel the benefits of deca so fast, so right now its all test E.

Also note that i am not talking about fixing arthritis, a ligement cut in half, a shoulder tear, of an acl, i am talking about strenghtening laxed or over stretch and weak ligaments which is very different.

[yannick35]

This is also a great read with some great user feedback on deca and joint repair.

http://forums.steroid.com/archive/in.../t-415571.html

[Bonaparte]

It all sounds pretty legit to me, OP.

If you really have estrogen issues, just get some Nolva. You want fairly high E2 in your case, as it is good for collagen and all that.

And Dec11, I know some studies have show that nandrolone , EQ, etc decrease collage synthesis or otherwise do not help, but I have to question the validity (or relativity) of their findings.
It is going to take more than some rabbit studies to contradict the in-vivo experience of thousands of athletes.

The only AAS that I'm certain is NOT good for joints and connective tissue is Winstrol .
Even test has the potential to help, as it increases IGF-1 and E2.

[lovbyts]

It all sounds pretty legit to me, OP.

If you really have estrogen issues, just get some Nolva. You want fairly high E2 in your case, as it is good for collagen and all that.

And Dec11, I know some studies have show that nandrolone , EQ, etc decrease collage synthesis or otherwise do not help, but I have to question the validity (or relativity) of their findings.
It is going to take more than some rabbit studies to contradict the in-vivo experience of thousands of athletes.

The only AAS that I'm certain is NOT good for joints and connective tissue is Winstrol.
Even test has the potential to help, as it increases IGF-1 and E2.

I can contest to that, I had some I decided to use before it went back (only 2 or 3 weeks worth) and it's when I hurt my shoulders/tendons.

I also used Nandrolone 1x and it really did nothing for my joints that I could tell but again I cant prove how good it was either. I may give it a try again sometime.

[Bonaparte]

I can contest to that, I had some I decided to use before it went back (only 2 or 3 weeks worth) and it's when I hurt my shoulders/tendons.

I also used Nandrolone 1x and it really did nothing for my joints that I could tell but again I cant prove how good it was either. I may give it a try again sometime.

You mean "attest", good sir
They are antonyms.

[yannick35]

It all sounds pretty legit to me, OP.

If you really have estrogen issues, just get some Nolva. You want fairly high E2 in your case, as it is good for collagen and all that.

And Dec11, I know some studies have show that nandrolone , EQ, etc decrease collage synthesis or otherwise do not help, but I have to question the validity (or relativity) of their findings.
It is going to take more than some rabbit studies to contradict the in-vivo experience of thousands of athletes.

The only AAS that I'm certain is NOT good for joints and connective tissue is Winstrol .
Even test has the potential to help, as it increases IGF-1 and E2.

Amazing reply thanks Bonaparte, lovbyts you need to use it for a long time, 3 weeks will do close to nothing, i have been told that it takes close to that time even longer at lower dosage for deca to start working.

This is the reason i have been put on this 20 week cycle, in the first place to produce has much collagen has possible and for the prolo to use it.

I also have been told that Winstrol is terrible on joints, and also like Bonaparte says many say that the link i posted with that study is flawed and does not prove anything.

[dec11]

It all sounds pretty legit to me, OP.

If you really have estrogen issues, just get some Nolva. You want fairly high E2 in your case, as it is good for collagen and all that.

And Dec11, I know some studies have show that nandrolone , EQ, etc decrease collage synthesis or otherwise do not help, but I have to question the validity (or relativity) of their findings.
It is going to take more than some rabbit studies to contradict the in-vivo experience of thousands of athletes.

The only AAS that I'm certain is NOT good for joints and connective tissue is Winstrol .
Even test has the potential to help, as it increases IGF-1 and E2.

im speakinh from personal experience as well as what ive read online, neither hgh or deca did anything to help my conditions mate

[bp2000]

They can help but not "repair". Meaning it can make them stronger but not repair them if they are torn. Otherwise athletes would just take steriods instead of going to $$ doctor's to get surgury.

[choker28]

Speaking from my own personal experience i was told by a certain person on here Deca would not heal my injuries.i had a elbow injurie that had stopped me training properly for years i had tried every thing physio massage.glucosamine,chondroitin and msm and supercissus.in the end i did a 12 week course of Deca 1ml/100mg a week.by the end of the course i was benching again,holding pads again plus other little niggling injuries had cleared also,so it worked for me

[dec11]

Speaking from my own personal experience i was told by a certain person on here Deca would not heal my injuries.i had a elbow injurie that had stopped me training properly for years i had tried every thing physio massage.glucosamine,chondroitin and msm and supercissus.in the end i did a 12 week course of Deca 1ml/100mg a week.by the end of the course i was benching again,holding pads again plus other little niggling injuries had cleared also,so it worked for me

are you really that childish?

[dec11]

lets see who can put up a medical study confirming taht AAS repair these injuries.

if they can i'll never sign in on this forum again

[choker28]

[QUOTE=dec11;5844879]are you really that childish?[/QUO

are you really that ****ing arrogant you think everything is about you

[dec11]

for those that think AAS will help connective tissues, here is proof to the fact tht AAS are counter productive to them:

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/29/2/77.long

[dec11]

[QUOTE=choker28;5844887]

are you really that childish?[/QUO

are you really that ****ing arrogant you think everything is about you

no point in lying to someone just because you have a problem with me and wish to 'get one over' on me, or 'a certain person here' as you put it.

[Bonaparte]

im speakinh from personal experience as well as what ive read online, neither hgh or deca did anything to help my conditions mate

Not all injuries are the same and not all treatments work for everyone.
Your injuries may have been too severe for the AAS to do much.
I don't see why you're fighting this so hard. If the OP wants to use GH, AAS, or whatever to help rehab an injury, why not just wish him luck?

[dec11]

Not all injuries are the same and not all treatments work for everyone.
Your injuries may have been too severe for the AAS to do much.
I don't see why you're fighting this so hard. If the OP wants to use GH, AAS, or whatever to help rehab an injury, why not just wish him luck?

i have told him to go for it if he wants, im just telling him not to get his hopes up. ive a multitude of related injuries, from minor to more severe and deca or hgh helped none of them. he is being sold the stuff by a trainer who is just coining in on his hopes.

[Swifto]

It all sounds pretty legit to me, OP.

If you really have estrogen issues, just get some Nolva. You want fairly high E2 in your case, as it is good for collagen and all that.

And Dec11, I know some studies have show that nandrolone , EQ, etc decrease collage synthesis or otherwise do not help, but I have to question the validity (or relativity) of their findings.
It is going to take more than some rabbit studies to contradict the in-vivo experience of thousands of athletes.

The only AAS that I'm certain is NOT good for joints and connective tissue is Winstrol .
Even test has the potential to help, as it increases IGF-1 and E2.

Var, GH ok.

Not seen much worth looking at in the way of Equipose.

Tren does also because of its effects on IGF-1.

Deca helps with joints because its a progestin. Progesterone is a fairly potent anti-inflammitory. Thats why it helps with joint pain.

Its also why Winstrol and Masteron are notoriously bad on the joints. Because they reduce PgR and estrogen (DHT derivatives).

Estrogen also has effects on the joints. Hence the reason you get severe joint pain when abolishing estrogen levels in the body (Letro).

Believe it or not, Winstrol actually increases collagen synthsis through TGF-1.



Stimulation of Collagen Synthesis by the Anabolic Steroid Stanozolol

Vincent Falanga*,†, Adam S Greenberg*, Linda Zhou*, Sofia M Ochoa*, Anita B Roberts‡, Anna Falabella* and Yuji Yamaguchi*

*University of Miami School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology, National Cancer Institute, Bethesda, Maryland, U.S.A.
†Miami Veterans Affairs Medical Center Miami, Florida, U.S.A.
‡Laboratory of Cell Regulation and Carcinogenesis, National Cancer Institute, Bethesda, Maryland, U.S.A.
Correspondence: Prof Vincent Falanga, Boston University, Chairman of Dermatology, Roger Williams Medical Center, Elmhurst Building, 50 Maude Street, Providence, RI 02908

Received 23 January 1998; Revised 15 June 1998; Accepted 29 August 1998.

Top of pageAbstract
There is evidence that anabolic steroids , which are derived from testosterone and have markedly less androgenic activity, promote tissue growth and enhance tissue repair; however, the mechanisms involved in their anabolic activities remain unclear. In this report, we measured the effect of the anabolic steroid stanozolol on cell replication and collagen synthesis in cultures of adult human dermal fibroblasts. Stanozolol (0.625–5 g per ml) had no effect on fibroblast replication and cell viability (p = 0.764) but enhanced collagen synthesis (p < 0.01) in a dose-dependent manner (r = 0.907). Stanozolol also increased (by 2-fold) the mRNA levels of 1(I) and 1(III) procollagen and, to a similar extent, upregulated transforming growth factor-1 (TGF-1) mRNA and peptide levels (p < 0.001). There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone. The stimulatory effects of stanozolol on collagen synthesis were blocked by a TGF-1 anti-sense oligonucleotide, by antibodies to TGF-, and in dermal fibroblast cultures derived from TGF- 1 knockout mice. We conclude that collagen synthesis is increased by the anabolic steroid stanozolol and that, for the most part, this effect is due to TGF-1. These findings point to a novel mechanism of action of anabolic steroids.

[dec11]

Because synthetic steroids have differ in their chemical properties it should not be surprising that testosterone did not have the same effect as Winstrol . Winstrol increased collagen synthesis as opposed to testosterone which did not in this study. Interpreting the results of this study are more difficult than simply describing them. Other researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992). These same researchers noted that low dose anabolics effect primarily muscle collagenous tissue with tendon being effected only at higher doses (i.e. 5 times the therapeutic dose) which would more closely represent what is needed by bodybuilders to put on mass.

The question remains, dose this mean that Winstrol will actually help prevent tendon injury or will it lead to bigger yet stiffer tendons prone to injury? It is difficult to take animal research and extrapolate the results to humans. Stanozolol is used therapeutically in humans to treat a variety of connective tissue and vascular disorders and its clinical effects suggest that it can modulate connective tissue breakdown in people. Despite being labeled as "ineffective" by many bodybuilders it is very popular among athletes. As with most hormones, dosage plays a role in what effects are seen, be they positive or negative. Hopefully future studies will shed light on the therapeutic effects of different steroids on tendons in humans.

References:

Michna H Appearance and ultrastructure of intranuclear crystalloids in tendon fibroblasts induced by an anabolic steroid hormone in the mouse. Acta Anat (Basel) 1988;133(3):247-50

Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effects of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary report. Am J Sports Med 1992 May-Jun;20(3):262-6



if medical scientists cannot come to a conclusion on this then why would anyone take the word of a trainer tht test and deca will fix connective tissue issues?

deca and test are obviously ruled out leaving Stanozolol as 'maybe' effective.

simply put, if these compounds fixed these problems it would be widely used and common knowledge.

i can also quote from personal experience, deca and hgh should have at least remedied some of my minor ailments if there was any truth to it. the only thing that has improved many of my injuries has been rest and an omission of various exercises from my programme. i blame poor exercise approach when i started and failure to properly rehab minor injuries.

[choker28]

[QUOTE=dec11;5844891]

no point in lying to someone just because you have a problem with me and wish to 'get one over' on me, or 'a certain person here' as you put it.

Dec11 your not relevant enough in my life to have a problem with you,Iam certainly not going to lie on a forum to get one over on you,I was just telling Yannick 35 my experiences with Deca and how it helped me,which is what this is thread is about is it not ? But YOU MASSIVE EGO has again got the better of you,Just because it didnt work for you,it cant work for anybody else please, We are all different and different compounds affect different people in different ways.
There are endless articles on the internet from people who have stated how Deca has helped with joint problems and personal statements from various people who have had relief from Deca .But oh know because Dec11 says the opposite then that is gospel. Know one else can be right
You really have a egoistical side to you ,which is surprising because you are obviously a very intelligent man but that doesn't make you always right, and it doesn't mean other peoples opinions are lies

[dec11]

[QUOTE=choker28;5844956]

Dec11 your not relevant enough in my life to have a problem with you,Iam certainly not going to lie on a forum to get one over on you,I was just telling Yannick 35 my experiences with Deca and how it helped me,which is what this is thread is about is it not ? But YOU MASSIVE EGO has again got the better of you,Just because it didnt work for you,it cant work for anybody else please, We are all different and different compounds affect different people in different ways.
There are endless articles on the internet from people who have stated how Deca has helped with joint problems and personal statements from various people who have had relief from Deca .But oh know because Dec11 says the opposite then that is gospel. Know one else can be right
You really have a egoistical side to you ,which is surprising because you are obviously a very intelligent man but that doesn't make you always right, and it doesn't mean other peoples opinions are lies

ive no ego whatsoever, you dont know me or anything about me. you have the problem or you wouldnt have stated 'a certain person here'.im just trying to tell the guy its a waste of his time and money. everyone being 'different' as you put it doesnt come into context at all. we are all made of the same stuff, muscle is muscle and tendons are tendons. medicines arent created for individuals, they're collectively aimed at all the population, your headache tablet wont be different from mine.

ive used the stuff and it doesnt repair anything, only gives temporary relief and thats it.

again, show me a medical study where deca has repaired a case like this. im all eyes.....

[yannick35]

Speaking from my own personal experience i was told by a certain person on here Deca would not heal my injuries.i had a elbow injurie that had stopped me training properly for years i had tried every thing physio massage.glucosamine,chondroitin and msm and supercissus.in the end i did a 12 week course of Deca 1ml/100mg a week.by the end of the course i was benching again,holding pads again plus other little niggling injuries had cleared also,so it worked for me

Chocker28 thank you very much for sharing this and yes this is the type of feedback i am looking for. Dec11 i really don't understand your reply and why you are flaming chocker28 here for sharing is experience. I don't see anything childish in sharing a successful experience.

Thanks again Chocker28, you actually made my day reading this.

Has for Dec11 you need to understand that TRT also did not or worked with limited effect, this is what amazed me because i got relief from traps and upper back pain that where chronic and add been for about 6 years, not even prolo gave me relief and after 3 weeks of test E at 200mg per week on my TRT protocol the pain was gone.

Ross Hauser who is the guru of prolo in the US uses testosterone and GH injections in the injured sites and many of is studies have produce amazing results.

I do take in consideration that all this failed and did not work for you Dec11 and to be honest its quite sad.

[yannick35]

Also anything that produce extra collagen in the body will help with repair, ligaments and tendons are made from collagen.

[dec11]

Chocker28 thank you very much for sharing this and yes this is the type of feedback i am looking for. Dec11 i really don't understand your reply and why you are flaming chocker28 here for sharing is experience. I don't see anything childish in sharing a successful experience.

Thanks again Chocker28, you actually made my day reading this.

Has for Dec11 you need to understand that TRT also did not or worked with limited effect, this is what amazed me because i got relief from traps and upper back pain that where chronic and add been for about 6 years, not even prolo gave me relief and after 3 weeks of test E at 200mg per week on my TRT protocol the pain was gone.

Ross Hauser who is the guru of prolo in the US uses testosterone and GH injections in the injured sites and many of is studies have produce amazing results.

I do take in consideration that all this failed and did not work for you Dec11 and to be honest its quite sad.

show me where i flamed him? Choker has a problem with me from before.

TRT has worked perfectly for me, it isnt for injuries its for HRT. ah you know what i couldnt give a fvck anymore, this board is full of fvcking pathetic w@nkers.

and choker you're a fvcking braindead prick. and yannick, if you're really tht dumb and blind ive a great supply in fairy dust here, it also repairs ligaments, i know because im a fairy dust 'guru'.

fvckin forum is a joke full of retards.

there ya go admin, you can ban me now........

[choker28]

everyone being 'different' as you put it doesnt come into context at all. we are all made of the same stuff, muscle is muscle and tendons are tendons. medicines arent created for individuals, they're collectively aimed at all the population, your headache tablet wont be different from mine.

This might be the case but one man medicine is another mans poison, ie penicillin is a common antibiotic and helps millions of people world wide to to fight infections but it has also caused deaths by Anaphylaxis
and the same can be said of many other different drugs including steroids , people do react differently to different compounds so it does come into CONTEXT and if you cant except that then maybe you not a smart as i think you are

[Swifto]

Because synthetic steroids have differ in their chemical properties it should not be surprising that testosterone did not have the same effect as Winstrol . Winstrol increased collagen synthesis as opposed to testosterone which did not in this study. Interpreting the results of this study are more difficult than simply describing them. Other researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992). These same researchers noted that low dose anabolics effect primarily muscle collagenous tissue with tendon being effected only at higher doses (i.e. 5 times the therapeutic dose) which would more closely represent what is needed by bodybuilders to put on mass.

The question remains, dose this mean that Winstrol will actually help prevent tendon injury or will it lead to bigger yet stiffer tendons prone to injury? It is difficult to take animal research and extrapolate the results to humans. Stanozolol is used therapeutically in humans to treat a variety of connective tissue and vascular disorders and its clinical effects suggest that it can modulate connective tissue breakdown in people. Despite being labeled as "ineffective" by many bodybuilders it is very popular among athletes. As with most hormones, dosage plays a role in what effects are seen, be they positive or negative. Hopefully future studies will shed light on the therapeutic effects of different steroids on tendons in humans.

References:

Michna H Appearance and ultrastructure of intranuclear crystalloids in tendon fibroblasts induced by an anabolic steroid hormone in the mouse. Acta Anat (Basel) 1988;133(3):247-50

Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effects of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary report. Am J Sports Med 1992 May-Jun;20(3):262-6



if medical scientists cannot come to a conclusion on this then why would anyone take the word of a trainer tht test and deca will fix connective tissue issues?

deca and test are obviously ruled out leaving Stanozolol as 'maybe' effective.

simply put, if these compounds fixed these problems it would be widely used and common knowledge.

i can also quote from personal experience, deca and hgh should have at least remedied some of my minor ailments if there was any truth to it. the only thing that has improved many of my injuries has been rest and an omission of various exercises from my programme. i blame poor exercise approach when i started and failure to properly rehab minor injuries.

You should quote the whole article, not part of it. Its also written by "hypertrophy", not a "medical scientist".



Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol.

Researchers: Falanga V, Greenberg AS, Zhou L, Ochoa SM, Roberts AB, Falabella A, Yamaguchi Y; University of Miami School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology, Miami, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Florida, USA.

Source: J Invest Dermatol 1998 Dec;111(6):1193-7

Summary: In this report, we measured the effect of the anabolic steroid stanozolol on cell replication and collagen synthesis in cultures of adult human dermal fibroblasts. Stanozolol (0.625-5 micrograms per ml) had no effect on fibroblast replication and cell viability but enhanced collagen synthesis in a dose-dependent manner. Stanozolol also increased (by 2-fold) the mRNA levels of alpha1 (I) and alpha1 (III) procollagen and, to a similar extent, upregulated transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) mRNA and peptide levels. There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone. The stimulatory effects of stanozolol on collagen synthesis were blocked by a TGF-beta1 anti-sense oligonucleotide, by antibodies to TGF-beta, and in dermal fibroblast cultures derived from TGF-beta-1 knockout mice. We conclude that collagen synthesis is increased by the anabolic steroid stanozolol and that, for the most part, this effect is due to TGF-beta-1. These findings point to a novel mechanism of action of anabolic steroids .

Discussion: I must first acknowledge that the commonly held belief is that anabolic steroids predispose an athlete to tendon rupture. This conclusion is drawn from animal studies showing that some steroids produce a larger, stiffer tendon in rats and that these steroid-induced tendons "fail" before the tendons from the control animals. The term fail refers to the breaking point.

The interesting thing about the present study is that the steroid stanozolol (Winstrol) had a different effect than testosterone. If you are a regular reader of MESO-Rx you should be well aware that not all steroids act in the same manner. And that because of subtle differences in there molecular structure they are able to elicit different responses. For example, Deca seems to act primarily through the androgen receptor (AR) where as Dianabol has effects beyond those associated with the AR.

Because synthetic steroids have differ in their chemical properties it should not be surprising that testosterone did not have the same effect as Winstrol. Winstrol increased collagen synthesis as opposed to testosterone which did not in this study. Interpreting the results of this study are more difficult than simply describing them. Other researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992). These same researchers noted that low dose anabolics effect primarily muscle collagenous tissue with tendon being effected only at higher doses (i.e. 5 times the therapeutic dose) which would more closely represent what is needed by bodybuilders to put on mass.

The question remains, dose this mean that Winstrol will actually help prevent tendon injury or will it lead to bigger yet stiffer tendons prone to injury? It is difficult to take animal research and extrapolate the results to humans. Stanozolol is used therapeutically in humans to treat a variety of connective tissue and vascular disorders and its clinical effects suggest that it can modulate connective tissue breakdown in people. Despite being labeled as "ineffective" by many bodybuilders it is very popular among athletes. As with most hormones, dosage plays a role in what effects are seen, be they positive or negative. Hopefully future studies will shed light on the therapeutic effects of different steroids on tendons in humans.

References:

Michna H Appearance and ultrastructure of intranuclear crystalloids in tendon fibroblasts induced by an anabolic steroid hormone in the mouse. Acta Anat (Basel) 1988;133(3):247-50

Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effects of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary report. Am J Sports Med 1992 May-Jun;20(3):262-6

The other possibly hasn't seen the study I posted on stanzolol and its effects on TGF-1.

[yannick35]

Dec11 the board is not so bad bro don't take it like that if you gotta a problem with someone just put them in your ignore list you wont see there post anymore its there for that.

Try posting on martial arts planet bro they are the worst moron pencil necks out there, they get insulted has soon has you say something sensitive and will argue with scientific crap all the time, i had a huge debate there about prolotherapy and all of them did no know or experienced what it was and gave me bulls$$it scientific studies off the internet that proved nothing. Leaving that site improve my mental health.

[Swifto]

show me where i flamed him? Choker has a problem with me from before.

TRT has worked perfectly for me, it isnt for injuries its for HRT. ah you know what i couldnt give a fvck anymore, this board is full of fvcking pathetic w@nkers.

and choker you're a fvcking braindead prick. and yannick, if you're really tht dumb and blind ive a great supply in fairy dust here, it also repairs ligaments, i know because im a fairy dust 'guru'.

fvckin forum is a joke full of retards.

there ya go admin, you can ban me now........

We're all sick of babysitting you and you were on your last warning.

Your clearly not happy here.

Cya.