Dont understand why you guys always argue with under 25year olds cycling

[The Bear 79]

easy fix guys, why dosent the forum ask for birthdates upon registration and ban kids under 25 from registering??

Because then they just do what they already do, they come back & re-register with a different name & lie about their age.

[lovbyts]

If you young lads turned off Jersey Shore, and watched some good ol movies, your general perceptions of life would be so much deeper.

What he is saying is the same as a respected wise man used to say, "Do you feel lucky....Punk. Well do ya".

You feel it?

LOL good point. I turned on Jersey shore for about 5 minutes a couple of weeks ago and just though what a waste of human life. There is not one person I saw who I would want to associate with in any way. What a bunch of douches. They all need their a$$ kicked and put on a farm or island to live for a year or two where they had to do some real work and be self reliant or die of starvation and MAYBE they would become someone who would have something to contribute to society someday. Just my .02

[lovbyts]

easy fix guys, why dosent the forum ask for birthdates upon registration and ban kids under 25 from registering??

Because then they just do what they already do, they come back & re-register with a different name & lie about their age.

Actually it's because even at 25, 30, 40+ we still do not PROMOTE aas per say but we try to promote the safest most effective way for people who are mentally, physically, emotionally and biologically ready to use and as a rule of thumb be it with scientific proof/studies or just a general consensual due to 1000s of members personal experience and many years of trial and error albeit it not in a sterile laboratory but in real life it's not recommended for those under 24/25.

We would much rather someone 18 come in and spend a few years learning about proper diet, training and the proper use of aas so they can make a educated decision at some point in their life if they feel aas is appropriate for them or not. It's not right for everyone but most everyone thinks it is at one point or another. It's not something to be taken lightly or to decide to use after reading an add in the back of a magazine or an add on a web page. Unfortunately that is usually the more though most kids/people put into it and just do it because so and so is doing it or because they think they will only do one little cycle and there are no negative effects.

I have been here 4 years and I'm still learning most every day something I did not know before. The more I learn the more I realize it's not something to be taken lightly and without caution but there are very few 18 yr olds who can foresee 6 months in the future let alone several years. I know because I remember being the same way but thinking I wasnt.

If you are so hung up on everything needing scientific proof/studies and it should be perfectly find for ANYONE to use aas at most any age then you really should start your own website. It really isnt very hard especially now day. Most 12 yr olds can crate a website; then you can make your own rules and guidelines and wont have to deal with any of us anymore. Doesnt that sound good?

[markdbg]

For life means what, next 60+ years. Ok you are sure that you will always have the $$$ and the connection to get your test? What if you dont have a job? No insurance? Online sources dry up? I guess the alternative is to live with LOW test, no libido, ED, depression among other things. Yup sounds like a well thought out plan...

All 18yr old can see is the perfect scenario, perfect future, nothing will ever go wrong. I would like to hear from 1 person here over 30 who everything has turned out how they though it would with no glitches along the way since 18. LOL One thing you can count on with life is snags, pit falls, speed bumps and dead ends where you have to start over.

if u cant afford a bottle of test every three months then ur gonna be pretty much homeless. plus almost everywhere has medicare/health care anyways, with nedibo or what ever its called its 3 injections a year. or u can go with the normal long estered which is once a week with a doct vist if ur not comf with doing it yourself. and if u dont have a job u have more to worry about then low test, which past the age or 40 ur most likely gonna have anyways.

trt is not a big deal at all. the least worrys i find when giving a person around the age of 18 advice about steroids . hell if i can tell the person is knowledgeable and dedicated to the gym and are doing it for other reasons other then to get girls i will help him by all means, bodybuilding at this day and age u got to start young. and those with dedication/determination and who are knowledgeable about hormones deserve to be given advice. its really easy to pick out the fist pumping girl desperate dumb*ss compared to junior bodybuilders

[Gronkowski]

I was going to do roids at my age, but thankfully I joined this forum and have learned about the risks and experiences and knowledge needed to even consider running a cycle. I thank the vets for looking out for my safety, there not trying to be dicks like everyone thinks. Well some can be sometimes lol but either way it's for the best.

[Flier]

That's why my repeated requests for scientific data and studies have been repeatedly ignored or answered with "it's common sense, dude"

Facts require more then random anonymous (often single thread posters that never return) message board users claims. With the standards for fact required around here we'd all be living on a flat planet, in the center of our solar system, with everything in the universe circling this grand little flat rock we all live on.

This is very easy.
You and I both have kids.
I will steer mine as far away from AAS as I can. I´m not gonna waste time trying to find scientific studies to prove my point, like I don´t re alcohol, drugs, speeding, sex etc, etc.

You on the other hand, why don´t you tell your kids exactly what you broadcast on this board?
I don´t know how old your kids are, 14, 16, 12? Unless you find a scientific study that shows AAS use in a 12 yo is harmful, will you let your 12, or 18 year old use AAS? ...No? Why?
Unless you find a scientific study proving daily alcohol use in a 10 yo is harmful, are you gonna serve your daughter a cocktail, and wine with dinner every day, and maybe finish up with a good old Cognac? ...No?...Why not?...I´m confused
Are you trying to say, in lieu of scientific data you often use "Common Sense...Dude" when raising your kids? ....wow, what a breakthrough!! Guess you´re a good Dad after all! I had it all wrong there for a while.
Btw, I didn´t say common sense earlier, I said "Awareness", and "Transcendental Awareness" Big difference, and sneaks up on us with time. You, as everybody possess it. Look it up.

[lovbyts]

if u cant afford a bottle of test every three months then ur gonna be pretty much homeless. plus almost everywhere has medicare/health care anyways, with nedibo or what ever its called its 3 injections a year. or u can go with the normal long estered which is once a week with a doct vist if ur not comf with doing it yourself. and if u dont have a job u have more to worry about then low test, which past the age or 40 ur most likely gonna have anyways.

trt is not a big deal at all. the least worrys i find when giving a person around the age of 18 advice about steroids. hell if i can tell the person is knowledgeable and dedicated to the gym and are doing it for other reasons other then to get girls i will help him by all means, bodybuilding at this day and age u got to start young. and those with dedication/determination and who are knowledgeable about hormones deserve to be given advice. its really easy to pick out the fist pumping girl desperate dumb*ss compared to junior bodybuilders

Nedibo is not available in the US. I take it you have never seen homeless people where you are from? Hmmm well over the last few years at least here in the US we have had a LOT of people who lost jobs, lost their homes and cant aford even the luxury of 1 bottle of test per month especially if they dont have insurance or a decent job. Sometimes you have to choose between a bottle of test or feeding your kids. That's life. There is NO guarantees that in life except taxes and death.

Obviously you are YOUNG or you would not have this misconception about life and how the streets are lined with gold or you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth but that's still no guarantee you will have it all tomorrow.

Ohhh I see, you are the 1 gram of test + Tren + Deca + 9000 calories a day 20 year old guy. lol I should have known. No wonder you dont mind giving (bad) advice to younger guys since you are one of them.

You have no concept of the words dedication and determination or you would not be using steroids at 20. Talk about an oxymoron...

[The Bear 79]

This is very easy.
You and I both have kids.
I will steer mine as far away from AAS as I can. I´m not gonna waste time trying to find scientific studies to prove my point, like I don´t re alcohol, drugs, speeding, sex etc, etc.

You on the other hand, why don´t you tell your kids exactly what you broadcast on this board?
I don´t know how old your kids are, 14, 16, 12? Unless you find a scientific study that shows AAS use in a 12 yo is harmful, will you let your 12, or 18 year old use AAS? ...No? Why?
Unless you find a scientific study proving daily alcohol use in a 10 yo is harmful, are you gonna serve your daughter a cocktail, and wine with dinner every day, and maybe finish up with a good old Cognac? ...No?...Why not?...I´m confused
Are you trying to say, in lieu of scientific data you often use "Common Sense...Dude" when raising your kids? ....wow, what a breakthrough!! Guess you´re a good Dad after all! I had it all wrong there for a while.
Btw, I didn´t say common sense earlier, I said "Awareness", and "Transcendental Awareness" Big difference, and sneaks up on us with time. You, as everybody possess it. Look it up.

BEAUTIFUL..........seriously, well done / said brother..........

[Matt]

easy fix guys, why dosent the forum ask for birthdates upon registration and ban kids under 25 from registering??

Why on earth would we do that???

We welcome the younger members whether they cycle or not, if you feel they shouldn't be cycling then make your point in a concise and constructive manner. Any member under 25 seeking cycle advice will receive all the help they need including "how to cycle as safely as possible"...

[lovbyts]

This is very easy.
You and I both have kids.
I will steer mine as far away from AAS as I can. I´m not gonna waste time trying to find scientific studies to prove my point, like I don´t re alcohol, drugs, speeding, sex etc, etc.

You on the other hand, why don´t you tell your kids exactly what you broadcast on this board?
I don´t know how old your kids are, 14, 16, 12? Unless you find a scientific study that shows AAS use in a 12 yo is harmful, will you let your 12, or 18 year old use AAS? ...No? Why?
Unless you find a scientific study proving daily alcohol use in a 10 yo is harmful, are you gonna serve your daughter a cocktail, and wine with dinner every day, and maybe finish up with a good old Cognac? ...No?...Why not?...I´m confused
Are you trying to say, in lieu of scientific data you often use "Common Sense...Dude" when raising your kids? ....wow, what a breakthrough!! Guess you´re a good Dad after all! I had it all wrong there for a while.
Btw, I didn´t say common sense earlier, I said "Awareness", and "Transcendental Awareness" Big difference, and sneaks up on us with time. You, as everybody possess it. Look it up.

BEAUTIFUL..........seriously, well done / said brother..........

I agree with Bear. This is just one of the examples of where you do a much better job of explaining things. I though of a similar reply but I would have pushed the envelope to include the daughter and things a father does not want to think about..... so I once again bit my lip.

[JohnnyVegas]

trt is not a big deal at all. the least worrys i find when giving a person around the age of 18 advice about steroids.

You sound like you have no experience with TRT. Testosterone , HCG and an AI are not dirt cheap. Neither are the blood tests and doctors visits. Doing 208 injections a year (two a week each IM and SQ) gets old after a while. Every time you get a soft erection or cry when you see a dog adoption commercial you wonder if your levels are getting out of whack and if you need to get blood work done. Giving blood to lower RBC can be annoying as well.

Maybe you think TRT is just injecting 100mg of cheap UGL test a week? Nope, you can't deal with the dose inaccuracies that come with UGL. If it is dosed low you will feel like crap because of low levels AND because your AI dose will be too high in relation. Dosed too high and your levels will be high and your E2 can go up because of insufficient AI. If you get bad HCG from some Indian pharmacy you will have testicular atrophy.

So, maybe TRT should be something you worry about when giving advice to an 18 year old. I started TRT at 42 and it is a pain in the *ss - and I have it easier than a lot of guys living in smaller cities. I can't imagine what it would be like to start in my 20s.

[swm1972]

Johny don't be fooled by this clown, he only tells the side of the story that makes HIM look good. Ask him to support his claim that everyone elses claim of cycling under 25 can cause damage to undeveloped systems is false, & see what kind of answer you get.

It's your ****ing theory clown. It's your duty to provide the evidence. Otherwise it's just random bs posted by some random ass clown.

That means you.

[swm1972]

Let me correct this, I felt fatigued before had trouble keeping fat down,but what I did was jump on another cycle to mask this issue. I was 25 till I did something about it sorry for the confusion and it wasn't till after tests after test he put me on hrt at 27.. We even tried jump starting my own system but high it got was Under 200ng/ml

One cycle can do this, you might be lucky or not that's the gamble you or some other under 25 should take..

Ok. That makes much more sense. So you never recovered. That I can believe. Sorry you had such a shitty experience. The Bear is a moron hat doesn't seem to understand I do not support underage usage. But I think a lot of the shit spewed here would seem more realistic of it had more evidence than random anonymous sad stories. Because this is the ONLY board where you find them. I was seriously wondering if this was a hooten foundation plant. Sometimes it seems that bad.

[swm1972]

If you're going to fvck yourself up, you're going to do it on your own, I WILL NOT be a part of that train wreck. I wont spend the rest of my days knowing some kid is now dealing with a lifetime of regret & failed attempt after failed attempt to recover, based on my advice. I have done enough in my life I wont ever forget, I don't need to add to the list. And most here feel similarly if not exactly the same way.

He might **** himself up. It's possible. Not a guarantee. Plenty of people have done cycles young and been fine. It's his choice to make. You have a vagina and give birth to him by any chance?

[swm1972]

This is very easy.
You and I both have kids.
I will steer mine as far away from AAS as I can. I´m not gonna waste time trying to find scientific studies to prove my point, like I don´t re alcohol, drugs, speeding, sex etc, etc.

You on the other hand, why don´t you tell your kids exactly what you broadcast on this board?
I don´t know how old your kids are, 14, 16, 12? Unless you find a scientific study that shows AAS use in a 12 yo is harmful, will you let your 12, or 18 year old use AAS? ...No? Why?
Unless you find a scientific study proving daily alcohol use in a 10 yo is harmful, are you gonna serve your daughter a cocktail, and wine with dinner every day, and maybe finish up with a good old Cognac? ...No?...Why not?...I´m confused
Are you trying to say, in lieu of scientific data you often use "Common Sense...Dude" when raising your kids? ....wow, what a breakthrough!! Guess you´re a good Dad after all! I had it all wrong there for a while.
Btw, I didn´t say common sense earlier, I said "Awareness", and "Transcendental Awareness" Big difference, and sneaks up on us with time. You, as everybody possess it. Look it up.

There are reasons beyond the scare tactics thrown around here for not using gear young. What happens when they discover a chink in that story? Then everything you've ever said will be suspect. You lie to your kids, I'll tell mine facts I can prove.

[The Bear 79]

There are reasons beyond the scare tactics thrown around here for not using gear young. What happens when they discover a chink in that story? Then everything you've ever said will be suspect. You lie to your kids, I'll tell mine facts I can prove.

You CAN'T prove the warnings we administer here are false, you just keep saying you can, but never do. Let me guess "I don't have to prove anything, you do".............lol

[JohnnyVegas]

He might **** himself up. It's possible. Not a guarantee. Plenty of people have done cycles young and been fine. It's his choice to make. You have a vagina and give birth to him by any chance?

I threw an axe at a guy's foot once. It landed right between his toes and he only got a tiny cut. Soooo, it is totally fine to throw axes at feet. Amiright?

But, that is anecdotal evidence (and a completely true story), not scientific.

Still, I will trust my judgement to not throw axes while we wait for scientists to do an unethical study that throws axes at people's feet.

[bigswoll]

This I's your typical know it all newbie. They should create a forum for under 25 yrs old. Give then all the consequences and risk and the proper way to run a cycle and let them make there decision it feels like everyday we plead to ppl we don't even know and shudnt give a Fuk about, why they shudnt use aas it's getting old.

[The Bear 79]

I threw an axe at a guy's foot once. It landed right between his toes and he only got a tiny cut. Soooo, it is totally fine to throw axes at feet. Amiright?

But, that is anecdotal evidence (and a completely true story), not scientific.

Still, I will trust my judgement to not throw axes while we wait for scientists to do an unethical study that throws axes at people's feet.

Ah, now it all comes out,.............now we know why you like "batsh!t carzy b!tches"..................because you're batsh!t crazy yourself...............

[JohnnyVegas]

Ah, now it all comes out,.............now we know why you like "batsh!t carzy b!tches"..................because you're batsh!t crazy yourself...............

Ha! While it is a true story, it was an accident that happened when I was a kid and it FOREVER changed my behavior. I was so lucky (and the other kid was too, obviously) he didn't lose his toes.

I think of that night every time someone says, "you could do blah, blah and it could turn out fine." Yeah, it COULD turn out fine, but do you want to live with the consequences if it doesn't??? We are all playing the odds here, and we have the right to discourage someone from doing something with a higher risk/reward ratio than we are comfortable with.

I do love me some batch!t crazy b!tches though...

[evander87]

IMHO life is too damn short to get riled up over crap on the innerwebs.

[lovbyts]

He might **** himself up. It's possible. Not a guarantee. Plenty of people have done cycles young and been fine. It's his choice to make. You have a vagina and give birth to him by any chance?

Your right and there is a chance you MIGHT get hurt or even die if you jumped off a 4 story building but there is also a chance that you may be perfectly fine if you land properly. There is no scientific proof that you will get hurt or die. How about you try it and report back to us on how it goes??? As a matter of fact since it's a scientific study you had better do it repeatedly 15+ times so we can get a good baseline.

[bigswoll]

Lovbyts they don't get it.

[Awesome_Archy]

Ok. That makes much more sense. So you never recovered. That I can believe. Sorry you had such a shitty experience. The Bear is a moron hat doesn't seem to understand I do not support underage usage. But I think a lot of the shit spewed here would seem more realistic of it had more evidence than random anonymous sad stories. Because this is the ONLY board where you find them. I was seriously wondering if this was a hooten foundation plant. Sometimes it seems that bad.

Why are you here?! How about canceling your account and sticking to one of those other forums where you can find those who will agree with you?

[bigswoll]

Hahaha i agree man

[lovbyts]

Lovbyts they don't get it.

No but if he takes my advice and does a study for us in regards to jumping off the 4 story building we wont have to worry about if he gets it or not for long. LOL

[swm1972]

You CAN'T prove the warnings we administer here are false, you just keep saying you can, but never do. Let me guess "I don't have to prove anything, you do".............lol

You simpleton. Being your theories the duty lies in you to prove what you say is factual. Not the other way around.

[swm1972]

My doctor got back to me yesterday late afternoon. Said that young people utilizing steroids can find themselves in situations where they never recover. So can people at the magical age of 25. Also post 30. His personal and professional opinion was the older you get once past 27 or 28 years of age the more difficult recovery was going to be. He said he treats more cosmetically enhan***ent seeking 30 something's that thought they'd run one cycle and never recovered then any other age group. The endocrine system as it ages loses its ability to rebound from the zero status you find yourself in after extended periods of time injecting exogenous amounts of hormones.

After that he went on to explain this was an incredibly ridiculous debate because anyone that is truly concerned with long term health and arguing x over z being safer was playing a fools game. This isn't a healthy lifestyle and anyone at anytime can end up on HRT with or without gear use. But the use of gear at any age greatly increases the chances that you will require these forms of medication for the rest of your life. He also suggested there are plenty of study backed reasons to not cycle young and they have to do with growth plate closure (read as has nothing to do with your stupid endocrine theories you can't prove). He stated a man might stop vertically growing as early as 16 or 17 but most often it's later in the early 20's. But virtually every man will experience a widening out where they will develop broader shoulders and fuller chest as they come to the end of their development. That being something we all strive for anyway to cheat yourself out of it by cycling earlier seems like pissing in the wind.

Keep lying to people and calling out those that won't drink the koolaid you are trying to serve. You people only post here because you aren't welcome on other boards with your unproven theories. Here you've circled the wagons with enough like minded people that are willing to accept old unproven theories from half decade old articles.

That said I have never once supported the use of steroids by younger aged users in this or any other board. My only problem is with the boogy man approach you all take. If you don't know enough to debate something based on fact why bother? Because you can hide behind your anonymous moniker and nobody will ever know the identity of those spewing such ridiculous ideas.

One of the more vocal advocates in this thread of these theories has no real life experience using these compounds because he is still in the middle of his first cycle. That is an example of the representative experience backing this theory you try to pass off as proven. You say these are unethical studies and they could never be proven. There are studies showing the effects these compounds have on growth plates. You think the recovery aspect is something that completely escaped the scientists conducting those studies?

[The Bear 79]

You simpleton. Being your theories the duty lies in you to prove what you say is factual. Not the other way around.

And you just make any claim & develop any theories you want and don't have to support them in any way..................like I said, you keep hiding behind that bull sh!t because you KNOW you're an uneducated clown that has NOTHING to support his end of the debate. If you would just post your evidence proving the things we warn young users of are lies, you could end this whole thing.......................so lets have it genius................

[The Bear 79]

Try to stay on the same page & up to speed "simpleton"............there has never been a claim made in this debate that states if you cycle after the age of 25, you wont get shut down & there will no longer be any risk of getting put on TRT / HRT for life, the point of debate is the fact that cycling under the age of 25 puts you at significantly greater risk of doing irreversible damage to your undeveloped Ednocrine & HPTA systems. You say "that's lies & scare tactics" but for some reason you have nothing more to say when challenged to prove it...........................I KNOW I KNOW................you don't have to prove anything........

[auslifta]

I'd like to remind everyone this is a no flame board. Keep it a civilised debate.

[lovbyts]

My doctor got back to me yesterday late afternoon. Said that young people utilizing steroids can find themselves in situations where they never recover. So can people at the magical age of 25. Also post 30. His personal and professional opinion was the older you get once past 27 or 28 years of age the more difficult recovery was going to be. He said he treats more cosmetically enhan***ent seeking 30 something's that thought they'd run one cycle and never recovered then any other age group. The endocrine system as it ages loses its ability to rebound from the zero status you find yourself in after extended periods of time injecting exogenous amounts of hormones.

I thought we (YOU) didnt care about personal or professional opinions only Scientific studies?

[JohnnyVegas]

You simpleton. Being your theories the duty lies in you to prove what you say is factual. Not the other way around.

Here is the thing: this forum is like a place where a bunch of knowledgable guys hang out. It isn't a clinic or laboratory. This is where you come for personal experience because there are not a lot of scientific studies on recreational AAS use.

These are opinions and need to be dealt with like all things in life...you need to look for consensus, or read a lot of opinions and make up your own mind on what path to follow. You will then see what your results are and change your path accordingly. That will make you one of the valuable members that can then keep others from making the same mistakes.

If you want studies and clinical evidence, become an endocrinologist. If you want solid, practical advice, come here. But don't come here at demand that everyone be an endocrinologist.

We will always have disagreements here...the question is if we can do it without being aggressive *ssholes.

[Narkissos]

My doctor got back to me yesterday late afternoon. Said that young people utilizing steroids can find themselves in situations where they never recover. So can people at the magical age of 25. Also post 30. His personal and professional opinion was the older you get once past 27 or 28 years of age the more difficult recovery was going to be. He said he treats more cosmetically enhan***ent seeking 30 something's that thought they'd run one cycle and never recovered then any other age group. The endocrine system as it ages loses its ability to rebound from the zero status you find yourself in after extended periods of time injecting exogenous amounts of hormones.

After that he went on to explain this was an incredibly ridiculous debate because anyone that is truly concerned with long term health and arguing x over z being safer was playing a fools game. This isn't a healthy lifestyle and anyone at anytime can end up on HRT with or without gear use. But the use of gear at any age greatly increases the chances that you will require these forms of medication for the rest of your life. He also suggested there are plenty of study backed reasons to not cycle young and they have to do with growth plate closure (read as has nothing to do with your stupid endocrine theories you can't prove). He stated a man might stop vertically growing as early as 16 or 17 but most often it's later in the early 20's. But virtually every man will experience a widening out where they will develop broader shoulders and fuller chest as they come to the end of their development. That being something we all strive for anyway to cheat yourself out of it by cycling earlier seems like pissing in the wind.

Keep lying to people and calling out those that won't drink the koolaid you are trying to serve. You people only post here because you aren't welcome on other boards with your unproven theories. Here you've circled the wagons with enough like minded people that are willing to accept old unproven theories from half decade old articles.

That said I have never once supported the use of steroids by younger aged users in this or any other board. My only problem is with the boogy man approach you all take. If you don't know enough to debate something based on fact why bother? Because you can hide behind your anonymous moniker and nobody will ever know the identity of those spewing such ridiculous ideas.

One of the more vocal advocates in this thread of these theories has no real life experience using these compounds because he is still in the middle of his first cycle. That is an example of the representative experience backing this theory you try to pass off as proven. You say these are unethical studies and they could never be proven. There are studies showing the effects these compounds have on growth plates. You think the recovery aspect is something that completely escaped the scientists conducting those studies?

Very interesting post mate.

[Times Roman]

LOL good point. I turned on Jersey shore for about 5 minutes a couple of weeks ago and just though what a waste of human life. There is not one person I saw who I would want to associate with in any way. What a bunch of douches. They all need their a$$ kicked and put on a farm or island to live for a year or two where they had to do some real work and be self reliant or die of starvation and MAYBE they would become someone who would have something to contribute to society someday. Just my .02

WTF is Jersey Shore?

[Matt]

I'd like to remind everyone this is a no flame board. Keep it a civilised debate.

Exactly.....

I hate having to edit peoples posts so please lets keep it clean....

[Matt]

My doctor got back to me yesterday late afternoon. Said that young people utilizing steroids can find themselves in situations where they never recover. So can people at the magical age of 25. Also post 30. His personal and professional opinion was the older you get once past 27 or 28 years of age the more difficult recovery was going to be. He said he treats more cosmetically enhan***ent seeking 30 something's that thought they'd run one cycle and never recovered then any other age group. The endocrine system as it ages loses its ability to rebound from the zero status you find yourself in after extended periods of time injecting exogenous amounts of hormones.

After that he went on to explain this was an incredibly ridiculous debate because anyone that is truly concerned with long term health and arguing x over z being safer was playing a fools game. This isn't a healthy lifestyle and anyone at anytime can end up on HRT with or without gear use. But the use of gear at any age greatly increases the chances that you will require these forms of medication for the rest of your life. He also suggested there are plenty of study backed reasons to not cycle young and they have to do with growth plate closure (read as has nothing to do with your stupid endocrine theories you can't prove). He stated a man might stop vertically growing as early as 16 or 17 but most often it's later in the early 20's. But virtually every man will experience a widening out where they will develop broader shoulders and fuller chest as they come to the end of their development. That being something we all strive for anyway to cheat yourself out of it by cycling earlier seems like pissing in the wind.

Keep lying to people and calling out those that won't drink the koolaid you are trying to serve. You people only post here because you aren't welcome on other boards with your unproven theories. Here you've circled the wagons with enough like minded people that are willing to accept old unproven theories from half decade old articles.

That said I have never once supported the use of steroids by younger aged users in this or any other board. My only problem is with the boogy man approach you all take. If you don't know enough to debate something based on fact why bother? Because you can hide behind your anonymous moniker and nobody will ever know the identity of those spewing such ridiculous ideas.

One of the more vocal advocates in this thread of these theories has no real life experience using these compounds because he is still in the middle of his first cycle. That is an example of the representative experience backing this theory you try to pass off as proven. You say these are unethical studies and they could never be proven. There are studies showing the effects these compounds have on growth plates. You think the recovery aspect is something that completely escaped the scientists conducting those studies?

This to me makes absolute sense, surely a younger endocrine system has a much better chance of recovering and the fact that we see more and more younger guy's recovering well after their first cycle backs this up, Swifto and Haz both cycled very young and recovered fine, just to name two. I was past the age of 30 when i first cycled and never fully recovered, most of my friends cycled past the age of 30 and not a single one recovered fully...

However i also see Bears point to some degree, i think anyone at any age greatly risks damage to their hpta when running aas. Now at 30, 40 0r 50 years of age your more mature to understand and realise the risks you are running and have no excuse or reason to complain when damage is done... An 18 year old on the other hand may not fully understand the potential damage their doing and they may feel that running a few cycles now is fine as they never plan on having kids ect ect only to discover that their fvck when their 30 and want to start a family because they are more mature......

So for me its a maturity issue and this is why we need to continue to fully explain the possible damage using steroids at an early age may cause. Once those risks have been explained its then our duty to help and guide younger members through their cycles in order to minimise any possible damage...........

[LolWuter]

Matt and swm have contributed a lot to this thread. Nice job guys.

What swm's endo told him is pretty much what I've been saying for a long time now. A 30 year old cycling should have a less chance of recovering compared to a 21 year old.

[swm1972]

And you just make any claim & develop any theories you want and don't have to support them in any way..................like I said, you keep hiding behind that bull sh!t because you KNOW you're an uneducated clown that has NOTHING to support his end of the debate. If you would just post your evidence proving the things we warn young users of are lies, you could end this whole thing.......................so lets have it genius................

So you want me to post proof that the studies that don't exist are not accurate? Your logic is absolutely astounding.

[swm1972]

I thought we (YOU) didnt care about personal or professional opinions only Scientific studies?

A doctor that is a practicing hrt specialist and recommended by the leading authority on the subject? Yeah. I'll put some weight in his personal opinion before I will some random Internet user that posts links to half decade old threads from what in all reality is another anonymous Internet user.