Coming off after 16 months of heavy use

[Johhny]

Hello everyone,

I have used steroids on and off for the past two years, and I have made some poor decisions with dosing and duration of use. Last New Years (1/1/2011), I started using test, tren , and masteron as a 12 week cycle. The doses weren't too harsh, 525mg of test and mast and 350mg of tren per week. This cycle went very well, and I did use an aromitase inhibitor and caber while on cycle. I followed a typical tamox/torem 6 week pct, and about 2 weeks after I had finished pct, I began another cycle of test and NPP.

This is where it all went downhill.. greed and addiction to looking amazing took over.. The doses were again, not too unreasonable, taken at 700mg per week for 8 weeks. I did use an aromitase inhibitor and caber while on cycle as well. After this cycle, I again followed the typical tamox/torem 6 week pct, but I decided to run test, tren, and anadrol within one week of finishing my pct. The doses were a little higher, exceeding 1g of testosterone and 700mg of tren per week. This cycle lasted about 12 weeks, and I used an aromitase inhibitor and caber again. I did the tamox/torem pct again, and I took about 2 months off after pct was over.

Before I was fully recovered (I would say that I was maybe 50% there) I started another cycle of testosterone, deca , and winstrol , for 14 weeks with fairly normal doses by the board's standards. I used an aromitase inhibitor and caber while on again, and I have been off for 5 weeks (still in pct).

I have a few questions:

1) should I be running an extended pct? 8-10 weeks maybe? can I recover? or am I completely screwed? I do not plan on using ever again, and I want to avoid HRT if possible

2) when should I get blood work done to check my levels? 4-6 weeks after I finish pct?

For the record, I am 22 years old (I know, this is the stinger to this post), 235lbs, 6'0", and 10% body fat roughly.

[stocky121]

1) just run the pct that you have run for your other cycles. Are you screwed or can you recover? only bloodwork will find this out.

2) give it a few weeks after your pct has finished then get bloodwork done.

[Johhny]

thank you, waiting is freaking me out.. i can barely get a decent erection with cialis right now

[stocky121]

no problem mate.
only time and bloodwork will tell

[< <Samson> >]

To cheer you up a bit, you must look beastly from this kind of a run!

Good luck, it's all on your body now to recover.

[freddy1418]

Dam Bro only 22?!!! At least ur young so you have a better chance to recover then a old folk but if u do LEARN A LESSON!!! Worse case you'll b on trt/hrt.. but relax Bro all will be well... goid luck and keep us posted

[Johhny]

thanks guys, I will keep this thread updated and I will make sure I post blood work when I get the results in about a month or so

[ironbeck]

What was it that made you decide to quit ?

[Johhny]

What was it that made you decide to quit ?

emotional side effects and mood swings, acne, and girlfriend didn't like it (I met her about 6 months ago)

[Chris J]

I was pinning for a couple of years and decided to try to get on TRT. Got bood work done after going cold turkey for like 47 days. No PCT at all. My plan was to get as low of a test reading as possible. It came back at 297. The endo asked why my readings were over 1200 the year before so I told her the truth. Anyways, she recommended I try to restore my levels with clomid. She said to try it for 90 days and check my blood again. By then I had already wracked up a big bill and she was not telling me what I wanted to hear. Needless to say I went home pinned a gram. My point is she said due to my extended use it would probably take a while to get my levels back if they even did. BUT, I am twice your age. Give it time young gun...its not going to be fun, but you are young and have a good chance of rebounding.

[Misery13]

Wow. First off your way to young to being using AAS. But I'm sure you know that. Second your PCT should include HCG . Plus with the doses and duration that you were on cycle you should have ran HCG while you were on cycle. I honestly hope your able to recover.

[ScotchGuard02]

The hardest thing is to be patient. Give it time. More medication's not the answer right now. Do your PCT and give your body time to recover.

[NotConvincedYet]

Yeah patience dude. I would think the next few months will be tough. Allow you're body to recover, don't get back on. Get bloodwork done around 6 weeks after PCT (this will be a tough wait), but at this point you'll have a much clearer picture.

Good luck mate.

[ironbeck]

sound like your in for some harsh realities..... i would seek a therapist. Your only a human being and you and your gf may have problems to come. Imagine the emotional rolercoster without the physic and without the strength......Its important for you to be realistic and hang tough, it may take 6 months or longer to fully restore yourself......the best weapon/antagonist you have is your mind!!

[poppz]

So what was your gains on these cycles.??

[swm1972]

If you are making this change for yourself, that is great. If you are doing this for a girl you met six month ago (that fell for you while you were a large muscular person) I'd reevaluate your decision to completely give up anabolics. I almost stopped once when I was 35 or 36 for similar reasons. Fast forward a few years and that bitch is history.

Do the smart thing and get your body back on track. That's a good idea. But make sure you are doing it for yourself and not some random female that most likely won't be the deciding factor in your decisions for the rest of your life.

I am married with kids and wouldn't just quit because my wife didn't care for what I'm doing. Everyone has a vice. Some shop too much. Other drink to excess. Some hit a crack pipe. Me? I eat healthy, exercise strenuously, and use a little gear in conjunction with my HRT. If others have a problem with that, it's their problem not mine.

[freddy1418]

If you are making this change for yourself, that is great. If you are doing this for a girl you met six month ago (that fell for you while you were a large muscular person) I'd reevaluate your decision to completely give up anabolics. I almost stopped once when I was 35 or 36 for similar reasons. Fast forward a few years and that bitch is history.

Do the smart thing and get your body back on track. That's a good idea. But make sure you are doing it for yourself and not some random female that most likely won't be the deciding factor in your decisions for the rest of your life.

I am married with kids and wouldn't just quit because my wife didn't care for what I'm doing. Everyone has a vice. Some shop too much. Other drink to excess. Some hit a crack pipe. Me? I eat healthy, exercise strenuously, and use a little gear in conjunction with my HRT. If others have a problem with that, it's their problem not mine.

Nice

[t-gunz]

better relising it sooner than later.

so as stocky said.

and as others said it will take time.

should get some pics up too

[gonzo6183]

If you are making this change for yourself, that is great. If you are doing this for a girl you met six month ago (that fell for you while you were a large muscular person) I'd reevaluate your decision to completely give up anabolics. I almost stopped once when I was 35 or 36 for similar reasons. Fast forward a few years and that bitch is history.

Do the smart thing and get your body back on track. That's a good idea. But make sure you are doing it for yourself and not some random female that most likely won't be the deciding factor in your decisions for the rest of your life.

I am married with kids and wouldn't just quit because my wife didn't care for what I'm doing. Everyone has a vice. Some shop too much. Other drink to excess. Some hit a crack pipe. Me? I eat healthy, exercise strenuously, and use a little gear in conjunction with my HRT. If others have a problem with that, it's their problem not mine.

Love it...

[Johhny]

I was pinning for a couple of years and decided to try to get on TRT. Got bood work done after going cold turkey for like 47 days. No PCT at all. My plan was to get as low of a test reading as possible. It came back at 297. The endo asked why my readings were over 1200 the year before so I told her the truth. Anyways, she recommended I try to restore my levels with clomid. She said to try it for 90 days and check my blood again. By then I had already wracked up a big bill and she was not telling me what I wanted to hear. Needless to say I went home pinned a gram. My point is she said due to my extended use it would probably take a while to get my levels back if they even did. BUT, I am twice your age. Give it time young gun...its not going to be fun, but you are young and have a good chance of rebounding.

thanks for the personal story, i would have gotten a new doctor lol.. especially at double my age. you would be a great candidate for hrt

Wow. First off your way to young to being using AAS. But I'm sure you know that. Second your PCT should include HCG. Plus with the doses and duration that you were on cycle you should have ran HCG while you were on cycle. I honestly hope your able to recover.

check out swifto's thread under post cycle therapy topics. it's a sticky at the top

sound like your in for some harsh realities..... i would seek a therapist. Your only a human being and you and your gf may have problems to come. Imagine the emotional rolercoster without the physic and without the strength......Its important for you to be realistic and hang tough, it may take 6 months or longer to fully restore yourself......the best weapon/antagonist you have is your mind!!

already have a therapist and a couples therapist dude hahaha, it's been a struggle

So what was your gains on these cycles.??

when i started all of this i was 20 years old at around 195lbs, 7-8% body fat. bench was probably 225lbs for 6-8, squat around 315 for 6-8. at my peak, i was just short of 250lbs with a bench around 405 for 3-4 and squat 495 for 4-6. currently after coming off, (I just did chest Tuesday and legs on Sunday) bench was 315 for 6, squat was 405 for 6, and weight was 233lbs

unfortunately, I keep going down a little bit each week. but it seems to have leveled out in the past 2 weeks

[cb714]

Well at least the good part about all this is that you are a pretty good size being 235lbs and 10%bf. Some people recover fine others don't. Your age may play a factor in it since your body is still developing. Only time will tell man. Id PCT for 6 weeks and then get blood work done a few weeks after that to see where you're at. Make sure you keep eating bro otherwise you're going to lose a lot of what you gained. Worst case scenario, you're on TRT like many of us. Good luck.

But like mentioned above. Whatever you do in life, do it for YOURSELF not for a chick.

[warchild]

hope it works out. i tried coming off trt recently and never felt to so low and depressed ever. ill never do that again

[tontizzle]

hope it works out for you bro. Gonna be my eye on this

[Jaxkiller]

Question to vets, is there any chance he is gonna be able to hold on to his gains if he eats right? , just curious....

[t-gunz]

i think a good log here would help mate. as u can go back and see how u progressing etc. when u get down. as u know there is down times with this crap lol

[t-gunz]

Question to vets, is there any chance he is gonna be able to hold on to his gains if he eats right? , just curious....

will depends on how easy he recovers. he can hold a fair amount. but stress in life re; recovering, plus other issues makes it hard. as it does for everyone.

the whole point of this is not to worried about what he kept. its him to RECOVER and be heathly and not be on TRT, no ED and issues with kids

more important things in life than just being big.

[tontizzle]

will depends on how easy he recovers. he can hold a fair amount. but stress in life re; recovering, plus other issues makes it hard. as it does for everyone.

the whole point of this is not to worried about what he kept. its him to RECOVER and be heathly and not be on TRT, no ED and issues with kids

more important things in life than just being big.

newb question. whats trt? Cant find it on the abbreviations sticky

[DanB]

newb question. whats trt? Cant find it on the abbreviations sticky

Testosterone replacement therapy

Not a road you want to go down if it can be avoided......

[Userat204]

Yeah it's not the brightest thing to do, especially because of your age, and when just for looks that's a lot of risk. But to be honest, there are a lot of guys out there who cycle like this or just don't come off, and I'm not talking HRT.

You need to start blasting hcg 1000 iu every 4 days until you regain testicle size and have blood work every two weeks to see if the hcg is causing a rise in test levels. Then drop the hcg and run a full pct of Torem/nolva.

It's going to be different for everyone but on the good end at least you did run a pct after every cycle even if you went back on immediately after.

Blood work is key. You probably shouldn't use heavy doses of hcg for long periods but you will need a good amount to get your testicles ready to accept an lh signal when your serm begins to force production of it.

If you really want to recover and stay off then don't give up, get blood work every four weeks after pct and if you have to then make a decision if more hcg is needed, another run of a serm, or just time. Many guys will get labs right after serm use thinking their T is recovering because it's still elevated from the serms only to find out later down the road it dropped back down as soon as they stopped.

Why were you seeing an endo and getting T levels checked whileon a cycle? You said she asked why it was at 1200 prior, which is roughly 150-200mg of test depending on when testing was done in relation to inject? Sounds a little odd.

[Juice Authority]

At your age, you should recover with time if you're patient with it (most aren't). Many people, myself included, have done exactly what you did, and that's start another cycle before fully recovering from the last one. The net result of doing that consistently over time is TRT for life. I went on TRT at 36 and I just turned 39. It's not the worst thing in the world but now I have to manage my hormones for rest of my wife instead of mother nature. While it doesn't bother me now how am I going to feel about it when I'm in my 40s and 50s? Sticking yourself once a week for the rest of your life is a commitment and lifestyles change. I'm active and I workout regularly now, but that could change in the future and I might not like that idea of pinning myself once a week just to be able to get it up, not to mention all the scar tissue build up from weekly pinning. I have scar tissue build up in my delts, glutes, and quads. Think about that. I sure didn't.

[Jaxkiller]

Damn....so many nice guys and simpathizers, if you go to another fitness forum, most of the people are so rude amd full of themselves.

[warmouth]

If you are making this change for yourself, that is great. If you are doing this for a girl you met six month ago (that fell for you while you were a large muscular person) I'd reevaluate your decision to completely give up anabolics. I almost stopped once when I was 35 or 36 for similar reasons. Fast forward a few years and that bitch is history.

Do the smart thing and get your body back on track. That's a good idea. But make sure you are doing it for yourself and not some random female that most likely won't be the deciding factor in your decisions for the rest of your life.

I am married with kids and wouldn't just quit because my wife didn't care for what I'm doing. Everyone has a vice. Some shop too much. Other drink to excess. Some hit a crack pipe. Me? I eat healthy, exercise strenuously, and use a little gear in conjunction with my HRT. If others have a problem with that, it's their problem not mine.

That was awesome!

[Schwarzenegger]

did the same thing with cycling way back and coming off partly for myself and partly over a girl,,, vowed to never pick up the needle again, and here i am starting a new cycle years later...

From experience, if its because of the girl or even partly involved, re evaluate ur reason for your choice and make sure its from you completely, otherwise years down the road you might start again after you vowed never to.

Rock some HCG along with PCT to jump start your system if you haven't finished pct yet.

Blood values 4-6 weeks after pct over, then again 3-4 weeks later so as to have a comparison of values and maybe one more time after another few weeks. Feel for ya man.

Bet you gained a ridiculous amount of size and strength tho. Juice Authority has very valid points. Kind of a sobering reality

[binsser]

To be honest my friend is a championship body builder and only waits 6 weeks for blood work after cycle and when hed does its all fine time on vs time off is just a safe measure so if were you id just do what you said a really heavey 6 weeks and take it from there!

[revo_romero]

Damn....so many nice guys and simpathizers, if you go to another fitness forum, most of the people are so rude amd full of themselves.

Exactly why I joined this forum! Real guys here who care, not just a bunch of idiots with nothing better to do than bash and use stupid grammar. I think you all know what forum site..

[NotConvincedYet]

more important things in life than just being big.

Agreed. Damn, that preoccupation and addiction to wanting to be big in a hurry has probably caused more biatch tits, zits, ED's, libido isues and you name it than there really needs to be.

That quote has a lot of depth, especially in light of the OP.

[Johhny]

I can turn this into a progression thread if you guys would like that, but I don't know if I can post pictures and stuff until I get my post count up. I am currently 3 days off of pct, and I feel like complete ass. I took a 25mg cialis last night to have sex with my girlfriend, and I would say that with the cialis in me I was able to get about 85-90% hard compared to normal.. so not too too bad. Having trouble orgasming though, could it be related? Weight is down to 227, body fat still the same, strength still the same.

[Juice Authority]

Cialis does not nothing for sex drive or ejaculation. Sure, the drug will help you get it up but that's it. Unfortunately you're just going to have to wait it out. It might take a while too.

[JAB1]

I can turn this into a progression thread if you guys would like that, but I don't know if I can post pictures and stuff until I get my post count up. I am currently 3 days off of pct, and I feel like complete ass. I took a 25mg cialis last night to have sex with my girlfriend, and I would say that with the cialis in me I was able to get about 85-90% hard compared to normal.. so not too too bad. Having trouble orgasming though, could it be related? Weight is down to 227, body fat still the same, strength still the same.

Could be but Im guessing the trouble orgasming is due to your anxiety with performing, etc.

[Juice Authority]

Could be but Im guessing the trouble orgasming is due to your anxiety with performing, etc.

Not necessarily. HPTA suppression affects testosterone and sperm production since both are produced in the atrophied nuts. I was going to suggest hCG but he already completed PCT and that will only further suppress HPTA. It's just time to pay the piper.