Test/deca

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 01:34 AM

Ok I've seen some post and I have to admit I see some people with 0 experience asking pretty dumb questions now before I even begin to ask I want to make sure I even know what info to give you guys, so far all I have is im 26 I've been lifting with the only sups being pre workouts (jak3d) and whey protein that's it I've been lifting for about 2 years but not very hard 3 times a week I know proper form plus how to work on different muscle groups but I have seen very little progress I eat decent 4 to 5 times a day oatmeal in the am with egg whites bananas and almonds with protein for snack brown rice bowl with white chicken for lunch same snack for again before dinner and for dinner salmon and some talpia then before bed cottage cheese and 2 starwberrys that's it now I want to start a test deca cycle because i have gym buds that mess with this stuff but want more experienced answers and opinions I am healthy no medical conditions and not allergic to anything I currently dont have a pic but will post one soon also I am 5'8 166 pounds I want to know what more info do you guys need from me to reply and what can you Guys tell me so far on this cycle. Now I am new guys so I just want positive replies like I stated I know nutrition is very Important just need advise, thanks

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 01:42 AM

Test and deca are a great stack but never on your first cycle.

Run a Test only cycle first. In fact your first 2-3 cycles you should consider using test only as it will almost always be a base in in stack you do in the future. You need to see how you feel/respond on test. If your on deca and test and have done neither, then you won't know what's doing what wether it's positive or if your having sides.

Tell me what you purpose to do. How much how long PCT etc...

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 01:47 AM

I see what your saying, I want to bulk up and gym buds said test is a waste of $$ and time that's why I wanted to try both but I do see what you mean And as far as pct they said take estrogen blocker but honestly they don't even know when I should start it that's why I'm here want to absorb as much info before trying anything

**stpete** · 07-18-2012, 01:49 AM

Welcome....Not enough carbs in your diet. And at 2 years lifting, not enough. Get that diet straight by heading to our diet section and those pro's will get you on the track. And for a first timer, test is all you need. But if you don't know how to eat it's all for not. Make sure training is on point too. Ask questions in the Workout Forum for some great advice there as well.

Good Luck

**MuscleInk** · 07-18-2012, 01:55 AM

First things first....there are no dumb questions here only dumb answers

Second, if you haven't already, go to the main forum page and read about AASs. There is a lot of information about types of steroids , side effects, and how different compounds work together or in isolation. People on this site will be very helpful but (1) no one is going to spoon feed you and (2) you owe it to yourself AND your health to educate yourself. Don't simply rely on comments from people you've never met to tell you what you should do. It's YOUR health so take ownership over educating yourself and making informed decisions.

Third, deca for a first cycle? No, no, NO!!! Big mistake unless you've grown tired of having erections at 26. Like I said EDUCATE yourself. For a first cycle your best and safest option is a test-based compound such as prop or cyp. If you don't know what these are, you haven't done your homework and aren't ready to take the plunge.

Fourth, diet IS EVERYTHING. If you're not calculating macros and daily tdee you will NOT achieve the gains you hope to make and any gains you achieve will be short lived. Anyone else telling you otherwise is simply lying to you!

Fifth, oral or injection? Big decision and if you choose the latter, how much experience do you have? Everyone thinks its a cake walk until they do it the first time and realize the hardships possibly involved. It's not for everyone.

Finally, come in here with an open mind. Too many new guys are dismissive of the help offered. There are a lot of veterans here who DO know their stuff. You can and will learn a lot if you are prepared to do so. Guys that come in here with attitudes are wasting their own time....and ours.

I hope this helps....at least a bit. We look forward to having you around and being a productive contributor and student on this forum!

Cheers,

MI

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 01:55 AM

But that's the thing I do know how important dieting is and training and the diet I posted is what I'm eating now I understand my diet will have to change drastically just wanted to give you guys basic info so u don't think Im just saying I want a test deca cycle and want not to train and eat right so let's say I get my diet in order will with the training I have so far is a test cycle still ok? And what can I expect from test alone with right training and diet

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

I see what your saying, I want to bulk up and gym buds said test is a waste of $$ and time that's why I wanted to try both but I do see what you mean And as far as pct they said take estrogen blocker but honestly they don't even know when I should start it that's why I'm here want to absorb as much info before trying anything

So your "gym buds" say test is a waste but they don't know when or how to run PCT? Do you see the problem here lol? That's like somebody telling you chain lube on your motorcycle chain is useless but they get on the motorcycle and ask where the gas pedal is lol.

Your friends are clueles brother. Glad you came on here looking for answers.

You can bulk or cut on test. It's a very verstal compound. How you eat and train will determine which one period.

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 02:03 AM

Thanks a lot I greatly appreciate it believe me no attitudes just wish I had gym buds that were more experienced and the only reason I know what cysp test is is because that's what they take and are recommending I take And have read all about it here but it's the only kind I know about. And injection is what I'm thinking about but having deeper thoughts the more I read your guys is stuff.

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 02:06 AM

Lol I know man The reason I say they don't k ow when to take pct is because all they say is take it after your 3 or 4th cycle but don't know the reasoning behind when to take it and why that's why I have a lot of doubts but I'm learning a little

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

Thanks a lot I greatly appreciate it believe me no attitudes just wish I had gym buds that were more experienced and the only reason I know what cysp test is is because that's what they take and are recommending I take And have read all about it here but it's the only kind I know about. And injection is what I'm thinking about but having deeper thoughts the more I read your guys is stuff.

Don't be a follower, be a leader. Your already showing signs of being a leader by coming on here to get your own answers. Let all the other retards gossip in the gym, while you educate yourself, train hard, eat right, and get effin huge dude. In a short time they will be coming to you for advice.

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

Lol I know man The reason I say they don't k ow when to take pct is because all they say is take it after your 3 or 4th cycle but don't know the reasoning behind when to take it and why that's why I have a lot of doubts but I'm learning a little

You need new gym "buds" dude. Maybe they should just be your drinking buddies instead, while you find proper gym folk =)

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Judah

Don't be a follower, be a leader. Your already showing signs of being a leader by coming on here to get your own answers. Let all the other retards gossip in the gym, while you educate yourself, train hard, eat right, and get effin huge dude. In a short time they will be coming to you for advice.

Thanks bro so you think test alone is ok for starters and I'll post pic soon so you guys don't think I'm some fat dude or skinny cat I have some tone but I just registered today

**MuscleInk** · 07-18-2012, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by Judah

Don't be a follower, be a leader. Your already showing signs of being a leader by coming on here to get your own answers. Let all the other retards gossip in the gym, while you educate yourself, train hard, eat right, and get effin huge dude. In a short time they will be coming to you for advice.

^^^^ well said Judah.

**MuscleInk** · 07-18-2012, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

Lol I know man The reason I say they don't k ow when to take pct is because all they say is take it after your 3 or 4th cycle but don't know the reasoning behind when to take it and why that's why I have a lot of doubts but I'm learning a little

Lol.....a lot of guys claim to know what they're doing but don't. Steroids aside, I see guys time after time in the gym who don't know how to use the equipment and are more determined to lift heavy than lift correctly. They are setting themselves up for limited growth and more likely, injury.

I'm sure that's not you but it emphasizes the point that just as there is more to lifting than going to the gym, there is more to steroids than sticking a needle in yourself, lol.

....and speaking of needles, there are far worse things I suppose so don't be too put off by it. If you decide gear is the way to go, you can learn safe, sterile injection practices and then focus on more important things like.....oh.....I don't know....maybe.....DIET!!! Lol.

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 02:24 AM

Also the test they are telling me about is test cypionate 10 ml by treasure coast and also if I do run this by itself is it nessecry to take a pct?

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

Thanks bro so you think test alone is ok for starters and I'll post pic soon so you guys don't think I'm some fat dude or skinny cat I have some tone but I just registered today

100%.

Now that you know what compound to run on your first cycle, your real work begins. Before you do a cycle do more research, put together a well outlined cycle along with a diet and training program. Come back here and post it, again, before you actually do it so everyone here can critic it.

**MuscleInk** · 07-18-2012, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

Thanks bro so you think test alone is ok for starters and I'll post pic soon so you guys don't think I'm some fat dude or skinny cat I have some tone but I just registered today

I ran t-prop for my first cycle. I had some of the biggest gains ever and the only sides (for me) was back acne ("bacne"). Subsequent cycles stacking harder compounds was far more taxing on my body with more severe sides. Testosterone is generally easy to tolerate and prop is a fast acting compound that washes out quickly. It's your safest bet and will give your body time to adjust, grow, and with minimal side effects in IMO.

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 02:29 AM

I know you guys can't stress diet enough but know I will have a proper diet regimen I will go on the diet forum like advices but I'm asking as if I have the diet down packed why because I've already started eating ok but will improve it so basically asking all these question as if I'm determined to cycle the proper way and believe me I don't wanna waste my $$ to inject knowing I will gain only to loose quick I'm trying to do this right so far I got running test only but for how long before I try deca ? And do I need pct after test only

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

Also the test they are telling me about is test cypionate 10 ml by treasure coast and also if I do run this by itself is it nessecry to take a pct?

.

If you like bi-tch tits and nads that produce less test than a girls vag, then no, you don't need to do PCT.

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 02:31 AM

Now the test they advices is cyp 10 mil by treasure coast but u guys think prop is better?

**MuscleInk** · 07-18-2012, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

Also the test they are telling me about is test cypionate 10 ml by treasure coast and also if I do run this by itself is it nessecry to take a pct?

Any cycle you run is going to shut down your natty production. PCT will help your natural testosterone begin to cycle again. Some might suggest that test-alone is safe enough for a short cycle to not require a PCT but I disagree. I'd run a PCT after every cycle.

**MuscleInk** · 07-18-2012, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

Now the test they advices is cyp 10 mil by treasure coast but u guys think prop is better?

Not much difference. Cyp is longer acting. I've run both and there was no noticeable difference except prop clears faster so your test-levels drop a little sooner after a cycle.

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

I know you guys can't stress diet enough but know I will have a proper diet regimen I will go on the diet forum like advices but I'm asking as if I have the diet down packed why because I've already started eating ok but will improve it so basically asking all these question as if I'm determined to cycle the proper way and believe me I don't wanna waste my $$ to inject knowing I will gain only to loose quick I'm trying to do this right so far I got running test only but for how long before I try deca? And do I need pct after test only

Here is a bone brother, catch it before it hits the ground....and enjoy =)

Week 1-14: Test 500mg a week

Week 1-14: Armidex 0.25mg EOD and HCG 500iu EW

Week 15-16: HCG 500iu ED

Week 16-18: Nolvadex 20/20/20/20 and Clomid 50/50/50/50

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

Any cycle you run is going to shut down your natty production. PCT will help your natural testosterone begin to cycle again. Some might suggest that test-alone is safe enough for a short cycle to not require a PCT but I disagree. I'd run a PCT after every cycle.

Ok so test for how many cycles before deca and what kind of pct to u recommend, and like I stated before anything I will get my diet down packed and post body fat and all that just wanna get as much info as possible

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

Ok so test for how many cycles before deca and what kind of pct to u recommend, and like I stated before anything I will get my diet down packed and post body fat and all that just wanna get as much info as possible

Get Deca out of yo big brain my man. Run a test cycle and wait 6 months to a year before you run another. Or longer if you have the patience. Personally I would wait until your 30 to run your first, then run maybe one cycle every 3 years or so. No biggie if you do it now, we all have diff views and goals.

**Sublimsublime** · 07-18-2012, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Judah

Get Deca out of yo big brain my man. Run a test cycle and wait 6 months to a year before you run another. Or longer if you have the patience. Personally I would wait until your 30 to run your first, then run maybe one cycle every 3 years or so. No biggie if you do it now, we all have diff views and goals.

You guys are really cool imma run with the first bone you threw reason I keep saying deca is I hear it so much all I want is deca deca deca lol but you guys are way more experienced from what I see thanks a lot man I'm done for today I'll post a diet regimen along with all my stats so u guys can critic it thanks a lot guys should have been resting but so far this is a very addicting and interesting site Thanks again

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

You guys are really cool imma run with the first bone you threw reason I keep saying deca is I hear it so much all I want is deca deca deca lol but you guys are way more experienced from what I see thanks a lot man I'm done for today I'll post a diet regimen along with all my stats so u guys can critic it thanks a lot guys should have been resting but so far this is a very addicting and interesting site Thanks again

Deca is great but you need a few cycles under your belt before stacking and moving up the chain. Think of it this way...you have super model in your bed...if the first thing you do is ass Fu-ck her, whats there left to do??? And we all know ass fuc-king can be messy if you don't know what your doing. Take it slow, Respect it and love it...don't ass fu-ck it.

**gymsoldier** · 07-18-2012, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by Judah

Test and deca are a great stack but never on your first cycle.

You weren't saying that yesterday:

Originally Posted by Xxzer0xX

Hey guys start my first cylce startin with
-test p 2 ml a week for 10 Weeks
-deca dura 2 ml a week for 10 Weeks

Originally Posted by Judah

Good first cycle, you will get big and strong.

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 03:35 AM

Yes, that was a mistake. What are you trying to prove?

**gymsoldier** · 07-18-2012, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Judah

Yes, that was a mistake. What are you trying to prove?

Point is, your still learning (as am I), and you're giving out poor advice without correct knowledge to what you are talking about.

**Judah** · 07-18-2012, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by gymsoldier

Point is, your still learning (as am I), and you're giving out poor advice without correct knowledge to what you are talking about.

If you want to gossip, than you need go strap on a sports bra and join your GF's yoga class dude.

This is not the venue, and especially not the thread for these kind of silly games. You have no idea what my experince is or my personal reasoning for being on here. Did you think maybe to ask me an intelligent question before making assumptions? No, becasue unintelligent people dont ask questions, they just throw stones and work out the rest along the way.

It's, called learning and evolving and changing. Not that I owe you an explanation, but I will humor you. 1st off, there are MANY experienced guys out there that WILL tell you test/deca IS a good first cycle, and guess what, that is their opinion. Through research and education I have change my belief system, which I am allowed to do despite it causing you to get your panties in a tiff. My original belief system was that on your first cycle you should take full advantage of the fact that your receptors are wide open as they have not been yet touched/satuated by synthetic hormones and therefore, you should stack on your first. Many, many, many people still believe this. I have updated my belief system as i do when Im growing and evolving. Did you see any of the vets on here bash me for that response in the thread? No, so why are you? Bored much?

Now run along boy and go find a different playground. This sandbox is full and all of us here, have grown out of our diapers unlike you. I don't have time nor the desire to change your diapers, so don't come crying to me every time you wet your little panties...or diapers, which ever you wear.

**gymsoldier** · 07-19-2012, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Judah

Now run along boy and go find a different playground. This sandbox is full and all of us here, have grown out of our diapers unlike you. I don't have time nor the desire to change your diapers, so don't come crying to me every time you wet your little panties...or diapers, which ever you wear.

The definition of intelligence and maturity.

**t-dogg** · 07-19-2012, 01:17 AM

Research, questions, research and more questiins lol.

Its crazy what gym guys come up with. Good friend of mine tried telling me for my first cycle to run test, tren and winny lmao. Very glad i didnt and did my above statement.

**Judah** · 07-19-2012, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by gymsoldier

The definition of intelligence and maturity.

Dude, you opened your big mouth without thinking and now your taking the high road lol? Funny how every time a persons mouth gets such and cant engage in an intelligent conversation, they take the highroad to deflect from what they originally did lol. Nobody is buying it dude.

Your the one that challenged me and started the negativity. If your going to challenge a person and cant handle thier response, then shut the eff up. Nobody wants to here you whine. Its like walking up to somebody and punching them in the face and then you get mad becasue they kick you in the balls in defense. Your thinking is seriouly flimsy my man. Your probablly the same guy thats tailgates people when you drive and then gets mad when they yell at you lol. Why dont you try to engage me in an intelligent conversation instead of just making shitty comments? Wow, there something deep for your little brain to think about.

Either appologize for your mistake, engage me, or run along.

**Imperious** · 07-19-2012, 02:24 AM

Hang up when you get the answer you want

**gymsoldier** · 07-19-2012, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by Judah

Either appologize for your mistake, engage me, or run along.

No mistake made. Your lack of knowledge and bad advice speaks for itself.
*waiting for another hypocritical long-winded response.

**Judah** · 07-19-2012, 03:03 AM

Originally Posted by gymsoldier

No mistake made. Your lack of knowledge and bad advice speaks for itself.
*waiting for another hypocritical long-winded response.

There we go, now a real conversation can begin!

What bad advice did I give? What lack of knowledge are you referring to? How have I been a hypocrit?

**The Titan99** · 07-19-2012, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

First things first....there are no dumb questions here only dumb answers

What about the ever popular "Can I drink Winny?"
Second, if you haven't already, go to the main forum page and read about AASs. There is a lot of information about types of steroids , side effects, and how different compounds work together or in isolation. People on this site will be very helpful but (1) no one is going to spoon feed you and (2) you owe it to yourself AND your health to educate yourself. Don't simply rely on comments from people you've never met to tell you what you should do. It's YOUR health so take ownership over educating yourself and making informed decisions.

Third, deca for a first cycle? No, no, NO!!! Big mistake unless you've grown tired of having erections at 26. Like I said EDUCATE yourself. For a first cycle your best and safest option is a test-based compound such as prop or cyp. If you don't know what these are, you haven't done your homework and aren't ready to take the plunge.

Fourth, diet IS EVERYTHING. If you're not calculating macros and daily tdee you will NOT achieve the gains you hope to make and any gains you achieve will be short lived. Anyone else telling you otherwise is simply lying to you! This is the it. Get a digital scale. Go to the diet section. Open an account with fitday.com (free) and enter every single thing you put in your mouth. If you don't do this, and Jay Cutler says this, your wasting your time and energy even going to the gym.

Fifth, oral or injection? Big decision and if you choose the latter, how much experience do you have? Everyone thinks its a cake walk until they do it the first time and realize the hardships possibly involved. It's not for everyone.

Finally, come in here with an open mind. Too many new guys are dismissive of the help offered. There are a lot of veterans here who DO know their stuff. You can and will learn a lot if you are prepared to do so. Guys that come in here with attitudes are wasting their own time....and ours.

I hope this helps....at least a bit. We look forward to having you around and being a productive contributor and student on this forum!

Cheers,

MI

Good post Dude.

**The Titan99** · 07-19-2012, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by Sublimsublime

But that's the thing I do know how important dieting is and training and the diet I posted is what I'm eating now I understand my diet will have to change drastically just wanted to give you guys basic info so u don't think Im just saying I want a test deca cycle and want not to train and eat right so let's say I get my diet in order will with the training I have so far is a test cycle still ok? And what can I expect from test alone with right training and diet

Get the diet sorted well before you start with the AAS. At 166 you can put on at least 20 lbs by eating correctly. Test alone cycle for your first time (IF your diet and training is dialled in, and that's a major IF, cause it's a mile away now) will be fvcking phenomenal dude. Leave the Deca for now. That's like having twin bi sexual gymnastics expert anally/orally fixated prostitutes for your first time having sex. Not only will you be completely unable and unequipped to seriously get the most out of it, you'll most likely fvck it up!! LOL!!! Just joking but not really if you know what I mean. Also, don't do anything until you've got your PCT (Tamox, Clomid or Torem, Vitamin C) lined up and in hand and planned out how your going to dose it. Get an AI just in case you need it and get some HCG to run while on cycle. If you have questions about any of the above it's back to the educational threads for you my friend. Don't worry, the juice is always going to be there. Take your time, get everything lined up perfect and you'll knock the thing out of the park!! Good luck.

**John Andrew** · 07-19-2012, 04:18 AM

Welcome, listen to the advice, studies have shown 25% increase in strength alone using test only. If you get stronger you grow. Do PCT and have children! I waited till I was 50 to start. We have a lifetime, I love being strong, I spent 30 years getting stronger then as injuries and age were affecting me I took this course, now I am bigger and stronger than ever. Plus I have had my family, and over the years learned that out of every 100 that start out with great expectations only 1% stick long enough at it to really achieve much. I have 5 mates in Australia still competing and we are all over 50. That's 5 out of the 1000's I've seen begin!

Good luck and I wish you well. John