To toxic , you decide..

[zeedubz]

test E - week 1 to 12 - 500 mg (split into mon/thurs)
adex - .25 mg ED

*ADDITION*
tbol week 6 to 10 - 50 mg ed
winnie week 10 to 14 - 37.5 mg ed ( yes i know its a low dosage)
ran with milkthistle..

pct..
nolva 20/20/10/10/10/10
clomid 50/50/50/50

drop the winnie?

EDIT ** oral winnie fyi

[Times Roman]

Mate
Too toxic for any 20 year old such as yourself.
(Here we go again with another round of "youth and steroids ".)

I'll let the others explain this issue.......

---Roman

[zeedubz]

I know every consequence of my actions. This isn't my first cycle , I may be a TRT patient in the future.. but my body recovers just fine after a cycle, blood test before, during, and after. I appreciate the concern. But in all honesty I can make a thread of "middle age and steroids " and if not the same amount of people fail miserably on cycle, not due their age but lack of research.

EDIT**
In no way was I attempting to disregard your advice. Thank you for your concern once again. I clearly know I'm in the wrong. I just wanted to speak about the oral steroids I'm considering.

[Lunk1]

Winnie is a waste at that dose and even the Tbol IMO is low.
I like to frontload my PCT
Milk Thistle is about as effective as lettuce for a liv protectant
I would run the tbol 1-4

By the way...this is a bad idea!!! Your lack of education alone shows that you are approaching this with the cavalier attitude brought on by youth.

[zeedubz]

What do you mean my lack of education?... I know how to run a cycle properly. In addition I'm also studying engineering going into 3rd year. So I am quite confused.. Because I am aware of the side effects I am lacking education? Remember ANYONE running steroids is exposed to the same side effects.. Maybe not to the same degree, but side effects are prevalent none the less. Quite a harsh statement? Milk thistle I know how it is very weak, but it protects you none the less. I already started the cycle, I'm on week 5. I like turnibol and used it in the past at that same dose very successfully. As for the winnie I would consider running it at 75 mg, or dropping it after hearing from your advice.

[Lunk1]

What do you mean my lack of education?... I know how to run a cycle properly. In addition I'm also studying engineering going into 3rd year. So I am quite confused.. Because I am aware of the side effects I am lacking education? Remember ANYONE running steroids is exposed to the same side effects.. Maybe not to the same degree, but side effects are prevalent none the less. Quite a harsh statement? Milk thistle I know how it is very weak, but it protects you none the less. I already started the cycle, I'm on week 5. I like turnibol and used it in the past at that same dose very successfully. As for the winnie I would consider running it at 75 mg, or dropping it after hearing from your advice.

Pretty sure that at your age you are susceptible to certain risks from use that I don't have to worry about.

[zeedubz]

This is what makes me confused. Aside from my growth plates. (I'm fine with my height 5 11) What are you not susceptible to that I am. Almost nothing. The major difference is the CHANCE is much higher.

EDIT**
But that is information I obtained from research and a couple doctors ( were not endos LOL), so if you have anything else to add, I am more then happy to hear it and accept it as the truth.. (providing a research based study of course).

[Times Roman]

This is what makes me confused. Aside from my growth plates. (I'm fine with my height 5 11) What are you not susceptible to that I am. Almost nothing. The major difference is the CHANCE is much higher.

EDIT**
But that is information I obtained from research and a couple doctors ( were not endos LOL), so if you have anything else to add, I am more then happy to hear it and accept it as the truth.. (providing a research based study of course).

Mate,

At a general level, we don't advise twenty year olds on how to use steroids . Just a personal preference for most of us here.

If you insist, you can always read the thousands of other posts that are already there. Just use the search function, and spend a few days reading.

Cheers!
---Roman

[zeedubz]

Thank you Roman. Much appreciated. Although I was not looking for advice on how to use steroids , I was simply wondering due to the fact that turnibol is considered low in toxicity would the switch from tbol to a hepatoxic steroid like winnie cause more stress on the liver as opposed to using winnie on its own. (for say 6 weeks)

[Lunk1]

You obviously are aware of the associated risks but early use can indeed limit skeletal growth (more than just height) as well as setting a false starting point for your HPTA to recover to.

[Bio-Active]

You obviously are aware of the associated risks but early use can indeed limit skeletal growth (more than just height) as well as setting a false starting point for your HPTA to recover to.

Or cause cause permanent damage to a not fully developed endocrine system

[Times Roman]

Mate,

So it's clear not too many are thrilled giving advice on how to use steroids for someone your age. So let's just call it quits before things get said that we can't take back. These threads get very emotional, very quickly, so do me a favor and accept the advice I've given you?

Fair enough?

Thanks
---Roman

[zeedubz]

Thankyou lunk. Before I continue on I must say I do appreciate your advice. And will absolutely listen to you about the winstrol . ( dose is much to low and almost pointless) But as a recognized member who clearly understands what he is talking about you to must realize that you are putting your HTPA at risk as well! The risk I am accepting is much higher then yours, but you are exposed to that as well. But if by chance you become aware of a study that exposes "young" steroid users to side effects older steroid users are not, please inform me. Thankyou for your responses, cheers.

as for my endocrine system "developing" .. there is no such thing. Endocrine system is all but a group of glands responsible for excreting hormones. There is no developing, we have them at birth, all that changes over time is the different hormones released. Your endocrine system is whats responsible in producing testosterone . So if you think you aren't exposed to permanent damage of your endocrine system your mistaken. Permanent damage is what happens to a TRT patient. Plenty of guys end up on TRT starting in their late 20's. So is this a risk.. yes. But are you exposed to it.. you very well are

EDIT**
Roman its a good conversation to say so the least. Don't worry I'm not a lunatic who will lose his mind, and begin to curse if I feel I am losing an argument. Maybe by arguing I can prove my knowledge and receive future advice on this forum regardless of my age

[JohnnyVegas]

I think one danger facing younger guys is the possibility of a longer period of their life spent on TRT. Hormone replacement is expensive and inconvenient. I started at 42 and the thought of starting in my 20s is horrifying.

[zeedubz]

Very true ^^

EDIT*
but I thankfully live in Canada. Its covered but aside from the money, you are right starting younger would definitely be unfortunate.

EDIT2*
By chance if you don't believe the endocrine system develops its true. The endocrine system is what causes you as a person to develop. So a counter argument toward me would better off be "Your damaging your endocrine system, before your fully developed" but then again , development as a person does not halt at 25, you develop until you die.

[Lunk1]

Give this attached thread a read. Of course you will not find definitive studies conducted on young ppl and steroid use .

Need some good advice from seasoned lifters

[zeedubz]

Good read!