Tren and libido

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 07:35 AM

I've been on Tren Ace and Tren suspension for about a week and... I can still get it up, but I'm not the beast I normally am. I got someone coming to visit me in a couple months, I don't want my sex drive to be shot. I'm taking 150mg of Prop ever week, 250 hcg 2x week, letro. when I come off the tren I was just gonna up my test to 500 or so for a couple weeks. Would that work? Or just start PCT right after I stop the tren?

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 07:47 AM

If I had to bet. I would bet your E2 level is wacked (probably too low from Letro). I'm a raging bull on Tren and very little test. Tren doesn't screw up your libido...estrogen does.

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 07:50 AM

Probably the Letro man. It is strong stuff. When i used letro i was the exact same way. As stated above when i am on tren i am a walking boner. The only REAL way to find out is the get lab values.

**clarky.** · 11-09-2013, 07:56 AM

E2 or prolactin letro is strong stuff how much are you using flacco ?

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 08:21 AM

I'm taking about .25mg a day. I'm not really worried about it now. I just don't want this girl to visit me and me haven't no interest in layin some pipe. I'm not prone to gyno. I'm taking NPP also. Sorry... 150 Prop, 300 Tren A, 300 NPP, and 25 Tren suspension pre workout. HCG ,, and .25 letro daily. Could I up my test when I come off the Tren/NPP? Would that take care of it? Then Pct? Or should I go right into PCT after I finish the tren/ NPP? If I'm not prone to gyno, should I even bother taking the letro?

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 08:27 AM

Also... I've been blasting and cruising for about 2 years. Pretty sure I've messed my hormones up. I'd like to see if I can recover before committing to trt for the rest of my life. At least not until I really need it. I'm definitely a good example of how not to juice safely. Anyway... I may try to come off. I'll be taking HCG for the next 6 weeks on my cycle. Should I just normal Nolva and Clomid with no HCG? Or continue the HCG a week or two past my last shots of Test?

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 08:41 AM

You don't listen very well. It's likely your E2 levels are crashed. That's why you are having issues. Get off the Letro and use an easier to dose AI.

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

Get off the Letro and use an easier to dose AI.

Thats the first time any of you said that. Maybe you just don't communicate very well

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

If I had to bet. I would bet your E2 level is wacked (probably too low from Letro). I'm a raging bull on Tren and very little test. Tren doesn't screw up your libido...estrogen does.

Originally Posted by Ibasmusi

Probably the Letro man. It is strong stuff. When i used letro i was the exact same way. As stated above when i am on tren i am a walking boner. The only REAL way to find out is the get lab values.

I hope my whole day doesn't go this way. Read the above in bold and let me know exactly where WE didn't communicate too well.

**Oki-Des** · 11-09-2013, 09:19 AM

Hey buddy, you just helped me out on my post. : )
I am an avid fan of Tren and also suffer from slight ED on occasion. Because you are experiencing problems now, you may sphyc yourself out when your friend comes that could cause some problems as well; even if your body is fine at that point by getting everything under control that was suggested above. I would suggest also having some E/D med on hand just in case. Good luck!

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

I hope my whole day doesn't go this way. Read the above in bold and let me know exactly where WE didn't communicate too well.

Maybe I didn't understand your response. Maybe you didn't communicate it well enough. Alot can get lost in translation through text. You never said to stop the letro. You never said to lower the dose. It takes to to communicate. I like you Lunk. I like your responses. I just asked a question. I hope I didn't ruin your entire day lol

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 09:28 AM

I guess you have to baby some people and tell him the exact thing you want him do do like a 5th grader, lol. Telling him it is the letro and that it is strong doesnt yield enough common sense for him to understand. And you are using tren ace AND npp? Someone doesnt know how to cycle.

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 09:31 AM

And no one really answered my question. I'm fine with not having a sex drive now. Will it come back once I come off the tren and PCT. I know there are no guarentees. To be safe, so can bang this girl 10 times a day, could I up my test for a couple weeks after I stopp the Tren and NPP? Would that work at keeping my dick at attention while this chick is here?

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 09:32 AM

Maybe I didn't ask it clear enough

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Lunk1

If I had to bet. I would bet your E2 level is wacked (probably too low from Letro). I'm a raging bull on Tren and very little test. Tren doesn't screw up your libido...estrogen does.

Originally Posted by Ibasmusi

Probably the Letro man. It is strong stuff. When i used letro i was the exact same way. As stated above when i am on tren i am a walking boner. The only REAL way to find out is the get lab values.

Originally Posted by Flacco

And no one really answered my question. I'm fine with not having a sex drive now. Will it come back once I come off the tren and PCT. I know there are no guarentees. To be safe, so can bang this girl 10 times a day, could I up my test for a couple weeks after I stopp the Tren and NPP? Would that work at keeping my dick at attention while this chick is here?

If your E2 is out of range, no amount of test will help your libido.

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Flacco

And no one really answered my question. I'm fine with not having a sex drive now. Will it come back once I come off the tren and PCT. I know there are no guarentees. To be safe, so can bang this girl 10 times a day, could I up my test for a couple weeks after I stopp the Tren and NPP? Would that work at keeping my dick at attention while this chick is here?

You just answered your own question.

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Ibasmusi

I guess you have to baby some people and tell him the exact thing you want him do do like a 5th grader, lol. Telling him it is the letro and that it is strong doesnt yield enough common sense for him to understand. And you are using tren ace AND npp? Someone doesnt know how to cycle.

There is really nothing wrong with this. The old theory of not being able to run 2 19nors together is just that...an old theory.

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 09:42 AM

Completely wrong. It is not a theory, it is science.

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Ibasmusi

Completely wrong. It is not a theory, it is science.

Yep...bro science. Please though. I'm all ears. Can you explain the scientific reasoning behind the "theory" or better yet, link me the scientific study.

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 09:46 AM

"When cycleing 19-nor steroids it is best to follow these certain rules so you do not get undesired side effects. It is very importan that you follow all of these rules i have listed . The two main 19-nors i am talking about are steroids in the trenbolone family and the nandrolone family. Heres a list of rules .

-Never combine nandrolone and trenboone in the same cycle.
-Never use a 19-nor as a stand alone cycle. This will destroy your endocrine system.
-When cycling with a 19-nor dont use nolvedex as your choice or anti-estrogen.
-Use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG ) during cycle due to the high natural test suppresion.
-Nevr use a higher 19-nor dosage than your test base.
-when cycleing prefebly end the 19-nor a few weeks before ending your test.
-alswys stack witha test base.
-If your a sanctioned athlete be careful as most 19-nors do have long detections times .

Now its time to benifit from these amazing steroids which will give you unhuman like gains."

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 09:47 AM

I will also take the fact thatthe guy who is running two 19s is asking how to get his dick up. Lmfao.

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 09:53 AM

So...it's true because you read it on the internet lol. It's obvious that article was written some time ago and by someone repeating more bro science. Not real science. It says never run 19nors higher than test base yet that is becoming a more common practice all the time. At the end of the day it makes no no difference when combining the 2 compounds. Over all dosing it's more of an issue.

To the point of Flacco..it's most likely an E2 related issue, not the fact he has combined NPP and Tren

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 09:53 AM

Every time I come back on these boards to ask a question, I get some dickhead givin me shit. I know lunk. I respect alot of his advice. Ibasmusi comes at me with I don't know how to cycle. Cut the higher than thou bullsh1t. You don't have to be a dick to give someone is advice. No one starts out knowing everything. Everyone is taught or has to learn themselves. I said that I'm not a good example of how to use juice safely. Instead of answering like an arrogant cocksucker... theres a nice way to go about it. Being a dick isn't cool. My humble Opinion. Thanks Lunk. No disrespect to either of you, I just deal with people coming at me like I'm an idiot everytime I come back on here.

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 09:57 AM

Flacco. You have a few choices.

1) Stop you cycle now, start PCT and hope for the best

2) Keep on track but switch your AI from Letro to Adex

3) Get bloodwork done to determine without a doubt what the issue is and go from there.

#3 is the preferred option!!!

**Projectswole44** · 11-09-2013, 10:02 AM

Your best bet is to go get bloodwork done. Then adjust your dose accordingly

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 10:03 AM

I've never made the best choices. I'm the type of guy thats gotta get kicked in the balls to know it hurts

I'm gonna try #2 Adex? Not caber/Prami?

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Flacco

I've never made the best choices. I'm the type of guy thats gotta get kicked in the balls to know it hurts

I'm gonna try #2 Adex? Not caber/Prami?

As I suspected lol. Listen. Most likely your E2 is completely crashed due to high dose Letro usage. Do your joints feel sore? Mine felt like shyt and I was lethargic as hell. Due to the fact that your E2 is low, not high, you should not need to worry at this point about elevated prolactin levels. The unfortunate thing is that it can take a few weeks before the effects of Letro go away.

Drop the Letro, start on the adex EOD and give it time. I really strongly suggest bloodwork though!!!!

**Flacco** · 11-09-2013, 10:12 AM

Cool. Thanks. Should I get bloodwork now, or wait till the cycles over?

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Flacco

Cool. Thanks. Should I get bloodwork now, or wait till the cycles over?

Get it now to address the problem then again in 6-8 weeks AFTER PCT to see how you have bounced back. Play it safe not reckless brotha!

**ironbeck** · 11-09-2013, 10:16 AM

What'[s up flacco....lunks advise is sound on this one.
And to Ibasmusi, let me ask you this about running two or for that matter three 19 nors. If you run tren and NPP at 100mg eod what's the differance than running one compound(tren or npp) at 200mg eod?

**RockShawn** · 11-09-2013, 10:22 AM

This thread made me laugh. the damn question was answered in the second post. LOL

Estrogen is an important hormone in bodybuilding, you want some still around. Letro drops your estrogen too low. My choice for an AI would honestly be Aromasin , but it's from experience using it versus adex. You wanna keep your estrogen in check on cycle, not kill all of it. Tren does produce Progestin sides so caber would be smart to have on hand. Most will disagree with me here, but I'm on low dose test, higher dose tren and low dose nandro with no AI being taken at all and I have no gyno symptoms, growing like mad, and my wife is bitching cause I wanna screw 3 times a day.

Gotta find that balance bro, but the posts are right, your estrogen and possibly progesterone levels are not in line with where they should be.

**Megalodon6** · 11-09-2013, 10:28 AM

If I were you man I would get some bw and post it so you can get some good advice. That way you will know for sure what is wrong

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by RockShawn

This thread made me laugh. the damn question was answered in the second post. LOL

Estrogen is an important hormone in bodybuilding, you want some still around. Letro drops your estrogen too low. My choice for an AI would honestly be Aromasin , but it's from experience using it versus adex. You wanna keep your estrogen in check on cycle, not kill all of it. Tren does produce Progestin sides so caber would be smart to have on hand. Most will disagree with me here, but I'm on low dose test, higher dose tren and low dose nandro with no AI being taken at all and I have no gyno symptoms, growing like mad, and my wife is bitching cause I wanna screw 3 times a day.

Gotta find that balance bro, but the posts are right, your estrogen and possibly progesterone levels are not in line with where they should be.

Lack of gyno and the ability to still bang the ole lady doesn't mean that your E2 levels are good necessarily and that an AI isn't needed. There is a lot more that can be going on inside that you are not aware of YET. The only way to know that an AI isn't needed would be through constant blood test monitoring. Also I agree about Aromasin over Adex but in this case he needs to switch AI's and Adex kicks in much faster than Aromasin.

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by ironbeck

What'[s up flacco....lunks advise is sound on this one. And to Ibasmusi, let me ask you this about running two or for that matter three 19 nors. If you run tren and NPP at 100mg eod what's the differance than running one compound(tren or npp) at 200mg eod?

So if it is the same why were they invented as two different compounds? BECAUSE THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT COMPOUNDS. What is the point is risking your health even more? Running a 19 at a higher dose is different than adding in another compound. My gosh. I am so glad i am a medical student and i am not this ignorant.

**Lunk1** · 11-09-2013, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ibasmusi

So if it is the same why were they invented as two different compounds? BECAUSE THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT COMPOUNDS. What is the point is risking your health even more? Running a 19 at a higher dose is different than adding in another compound. My gosh. I am so glad i am a medical student and i am not this ignorant.

Again...please show me some scientific data that shows the 2 compounds should not be run together. Not an internet post from a steroid board...something concrete. If your a medical student then surely you know how many BS theories have been debunked over the years.

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 10:38 AM

Absolutely i do. But it is a lot to go into expecially with the science between these two compounds. They are different for a reason and you are putting yourself more at a risk taking both. It is almost common sense guys. Perfect example is the op.

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 10:42 AM

1. Trenbolone is highly suppressive of testosterone production when present in the system even at low levels. Since normal male estrogen levels are provided via aromatization of testosterone, testosterone production is highly suppressed in a trenbolone cycle and estrogen levels fall below normal. This typically yields problems with mood, libido, and/or the joints. We all know about DECA Dick. Double wammy against libido.

2.Waste of money as Deca does not act synergistically with trenbolone: a greater effect cannot be achieved by adding them than can be achieved with trenbolone alone at a sufficient dose. Test,Anadrol ,Dianabol yes synergist. Deca,EQ,Anavar , no

3.It will take forever to recover your Natty test production

**XxAndreaxX** · 11-09-2013, 10:43 AM

Flacco you don't get the point.
yo have 2 possibilities: do a BW and get out of doubts, or try testing some few things.
First of all, like everybody said, letro is very strong, and might have caused you the shutdown.
you need both test and E2 to maintain your dick high.
But it might be prolactine too, (although prolactine is normally an issue when E2 first are high, but its not a must) taking 300+300 19-nor is like taking somehow 600mg tren a week on prolactine.
I'd do the following, 150mg of test are very little, if you're not prone to gyno, you won't get it, so quit the letro and quit the NPP (due NPP aromatizes and tren not), and look for a week with test and tren, how you're doing.
Prolactine (if not actually too high) shouldn't be a concern on 300mg tren
if not any better, stop cycle and get a BW done, if you can get it up again, then end the tren, and add npp after tren ended.
and meanwhile get some adex and caber. That's what I would do

**Ibasmusi** · 11-09-2013, 10:45 AM

They all bind to the same receptors BUT, some bind faster than others and some bind differently. The compounds that bind quicker, will win the fight for the receptor. In the case of Tren Vs Deca , tren will win the fight, hence losing or wasting deca and all you are left with is a boat load of prolactin. Do a google search on any steroid profile, one of the first things mentioned is that drugs RBA (relative binding affinity). All are different

AD · 11-09-2013, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ibasmusi

They all bind to the same receptors BUT, some bind faster than others and some bind differently. The compounds that bind quicker, will win the fight for the receptor. In the case of Tren Vs Deca, tren will win the fight, hence losing or wasting deca and all you are left with is a boat load of prolactin. Do a google search on any steroid profile, one of the first things mentioned is that drugs RBA (relative binding affinity). All are different

Did you learn all that in biochemistry or physiology? Or pharmacology??