Better chances for fertility with trt or short cycles

**Ccdiesel** · 02-04-2014, 10:17 PM

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Seems to me the length of time HPTA is shut down even with HCG affects the return to normal function. Within reason I'm sure and depending on the aas used but I've heard of success with short 2 week cycles with test prop and quick full recoveries.

**gearbox** · 02-05-2014, 08:32 AM

Definitely better to come off then stay on. Trt is not a picnic. It's a pain in the as$. Literally speaking.
Two weeks for a burst is a little short. Why not wait till after kids.

**Ccdiesel** · 02-05-2014, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by gearbox

Definitely better to come off then stay on. Trt is not a picnic. It's a pain in the as$. Literally speaking.
Two weeks for a burst is a little short. Why not wait till after kids.

I would wait until after kids but im currently single so I don't see that in my immediate future. I don't mind the pinning or trt management I am just concerned with the effects long term. If I lose fertility it's not worth it.

Before trt I did not feel well for a while. It has definitely benefited me so far, I feel much better. If there were a way not to risk fertility and maintain the health I have gained I would do it.

**gearbox** · 02-05-2014, 11:21 AM

So are you currently on trt?

**Ccdiesel** · 02-05-2014, 12:06 PM

Yes three months in. Debating getting off. Health benefits are great but at the possible expense of fertility.

**Test Rage** · 02-05-2014, 12:10 PM

As long as HCG is used during TRT then you will stay fertile. TRT without HCG is dumb even if you dont plan on having kids.

I was mentioning earlier on here of two men I know that have been on HCG monotherapy instead of TRT. One guy for 6 years and the other for 3. Another guy I know impregnated their wife after a year on HCG + Test.

**gearbox** · 02-05-2014, 12:40 PM

There is a slight chance you can become infertile but it's extremely low on trt and hcg . I would run a low dose of clomid eod if you want to be extra cautious. I'm glad your asking and being responsible. Get bw every 3-5 months and even sperm Count.

There is more you can do in future if sperm Count is low.
If trt is working great for you then you obviously needed it.

**Ccdiesel** · 02-05-2014, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by gearbox

There is a slight chance you can become infertile but it's extremely low on trt and hcg . I would run a low dose of clomid eod if you want to be extra cautious. I'm glad your asking and being responsible. Get bw every 3-5 months and even sperm Count.

There is more you can do in future if sperm Count is low.
If trt is working great for you then you obviously needed it.

Yes I definitely felt a big difference in general and less joint pain/aches especially in my back. Libido never really went away but improved. I did it for the physical benefits that used to be natural for me. Not excited about therapy because of my age but it's worth it.

Fertility is the chief concern. I will get sperm checked and possibly frozen. I need to ensure my HCG is good and fine tune my dosing. I wasn't away that clomid is okay for long term use. Can it stimulate LH and fsh with synthetic t? And could that cause over stimulation issues? Not sure what metric would gauge the dosing

**gearbox** · 02-05-2014, 02:58 PM

Glad your worrying about fertility but your gtg. I changed my mind. Get periodic sperm check and if you see a difference throw some clomid in there. It's not good for all the time use according to what i have read and know. But i will dose e3d for a month and then stop for a few.

i was on aas for 2 years when younger and never came off and never did hcg or pct etc.
i started hcg and sperm came back and I'm gtg. This was years ago. Your body is a resilient thing

**Ccdiesel** · 02-05-2014, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by gearbox

Glad your worrying about fertility but your gtg. I changed my mind. Get periodic sperm check and if you see a difference throw some clomid in there. It's not good for all the time use according to what i have read and know. But i will dose e3d for a month and then stop for a few.

i was on aas for 2 years when younger and never came off and never did hcg or pct etc.
i started hcg and sperm came back and I'm gtg. This was years ago. Your body is a resilient thing

Thanks for the help. Clomid seems like a good idea, maybe even better to drop test levels for a couple weeks and continue HCG with clomid. I will get checked out and adjust from there.

After 2 years of use I would say that is resiliency. Glad you were not permanently affected.

**gearbox** · 02-05-2014, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ccdiesel

Thanks for the help. Clomid seems like a good idea, maybe even better to drop test levels for a couple weeks and continue HCG with clomid. I will get checked out and adjust from there.

After 2 years of use I would say that is resiliency. Glad you were not permanently affected.

Dropping test will not do anything. Your either shut down or not

Honestly I wouldn't worry at all. Your way more likely to die in a car crash or something before you have kids haha.

**Ccdiesel** · 02-05-2014, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by gearbox

Dropping test will not do anything. Your either shut down or not

Honestly I wouldn't worry at all. Your way more likely to die in a car crash or something before you have kids haha.

Haha well that's a good thought lol. Let's hope so.

**gearbox** · 02-05-2014, 11:23 PM

You will be fine. Even if its low (it wont be) there are a lot of methods to increase your count. Many methods we use doctors do not even know about.

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-06-2014, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Test Rage

As long as HCG is used during TRT then you will stay fertile. TRT without HCG is dumb even if you dont plan on having kids.

I was mentioning earlier on here of two men I know that have been on HCG monotherapy instead of TRT. One guy for 6 years and the other for 3. Another guy I know impregnated their wife after a year on HCG + Test.

HCG might not be the best drug to use though. You need the FSH hormone as well. So it's better to use HMG instead. I was given this advice by some people on this site and my doctor agreed.

**Test Rage** · 02-06-2014, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

HCG might not be the best drug to use though. You need the FSH hormone as well. So it's better to use HMG instead. I was given this advice by some people on this site and my doctor agreed.

HCG has been shown to have an effect on sperm and there are many cases where TEST + HCG = pregnant. Obviously not to the extent of HMG but HMG is not easily accessible for nearly anyone and the cost is so much greater than that of HCG. With 75iu of HMG a day you will impregnate any girl within a 15 foot radius. haha

HMG would be awsome in conjunction with HCG but It just so damn expensive for now. In the future this might be the preferred and practical option. Only time will tell.

**gearbox** · 02-06-2014, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Test Rage

HCG has been shown to have an effect on sperm and there are many cases where TEST + HCG = pregnant. Obviously not to the extent of HMG but HMG is not easily accessible for nearly anyone and the cost is so much greater than that of HCG. With 75iu of HMG a day you will impregnate any girl within a 15 foot radius. haha

HMG would be awsome in conjunction with HCG but It just so damn expensive for now. In the future this might be the preferred and practical option. Only time will tell.

This is why I said there are other products we can grab in the future if his sperm is not top notch.

**Ccdiesel** · 02-06-2014, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Test Rage

HCG has been shown to have an effect on sperm and there are many cases where TEST + HCG = pregnant. Obviously not to the extent of HMG but HMG is not easily accessible for nearly anyone and the cost is so much greater than that of HCG. With 75iu of HMG a day you will impregnate any girl within a 15 foot radius. haha

HMG would be awsome in conjunction with HCG but It just so damn expensive for now. In the future this might be the preferred and practical option. Only time will tell.

Did you run hmg before? What was the cost? And it's a fsh analog only? Or LH and fsh which you run instead of HCG?

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-06-2014, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Test Rage

HCG has been shown to have an effect on sperm and there are many cases where TEST + HCG = pregnant. Obviously not to the extent of HMG but HMG is not easily accessible for nearly anyone and the cost is so much greater than that of HCG. With 75iu of HMG a day you will impregnate any girl within a 15 foot radius. haha

HMG would be awsome in conjunction with HCG but It just so damn expensive for now. In the future this might be the preferred and practical option. Only time will tell.

That is not true at all about the HMG, I'm proof of that. And the OP is on trt which means he'd be getting these medications through his doctor. So finding hmg would be as difficult as finding a Rite Aid or CVS.

**Test Rage** · 02-06-2014, 08:58 AM

I ran HCG my second cycle and then used HMG on top of the HCG for the last week of the cycle at 50iu per day. I definately noticed a somewhat increase in my recovery. My source was foreign and therefore I am not 100% sure it was completely pure or potent. cannot discuss price but it was 3-4 times the cost of my HCG.

HMG is an equal combination of the two. Pure FSH analogue is rFSH and it is synthesized.

I ran it alongside my existing HCG.

So total LH analogue consumption was around 100iu per day (700iu for the week)
and FSh analogue was at 37.5iu per day. (260iu for the week)

It was a decent little experiment. The dosage of gear and duration of cycle was the same as my first. Same AI and dosage, Same PCT. Only thing different was HMG. I recovered great my first cycle. It just happened faster with the second cycle.

I have no statistical evidence but I can tell you it was a better PCT.

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-06-2014, 09:03 AM

^^^ You should edit your post and remove the prices you paid.

**Test Rage** · 02-06-2014, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

^^^ You should edit your post and remove the prices you paid.

Oops.. thanks. does that work?

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-06-2014, 09:18 AM

So you took HCG and HMG at the same time?

**Test Rage** · 02-06-2014, 09:24 AM

Yes 75iu a day of HCG and 75iu a day of HMG. Next time I will be doing extensive blood work before during and after and making a log.

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-06-2014, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Test Rage

Yes 75iu a day of HCG and 75iu a day of HMG. Next time I will be doing extensive blood work before during and after and making a log.

You know HMG has LH in it?

**austinite** · 02-06-2014, 09:43 AM

HMG mimics both gonadotropins. No need to use both.

**Test Rage** · 02-06-2014, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Test Rage

I ran HCG my second cycle and then used HMG on top of the HCG for the last week of the cycle at 50iu per day. I definately noticed a somewhat increase in my recovery. My source was foreign and therefore I am not 100% sure it was completely pure or potent. cannot discuss price but it was 3-4 times the cost of my HCG.

HMG is an equal combination of the two. Pure FSH analogue is rFSH and it is synthesized.

I ran it alongside my existing HCG.

So total LH analogue consumption was around 100iu per day (700iu for the week)
and FSh analogue was at 37.5iu per day. (260iu for the week)

It was a decent little experiment. The dosage of gear and duration of cycle was the same as my first. Same AI and dosage, Same PCT. Only thing different was HMG. I recovered great my first cycle. It just happened faster with the second cycle.

I have no statistical evidence but I can tell you it was a better PCT.

In this post I fully described what I did.

HMG does have both but IU:IU I believe the FSH in HMG is more powerful at what it does than the LH of HMG or HCG.

So i took about 700iu per week of LH analog (450iu from HCG and 250iu that is found in the HMG) and apx 250iu of week of FSH (that is occuring in the HMG).

I dont know if Im describing what I did properly for ppl to understand but hopefully that makes it more clear. Doing it again I would try to get more HMG and instead of running more during that week I would just run it for two weeks next to HCG. i feel all you need is a little FSH in the action to go a long ways. Also HMG does not aromatize as aggressively as HCG.

Im open to experimenting with both or just HMG alone. Idk what i will do next. I still have access to it but HCG only can keep a man fertile and help in recover greatly so I dont know about spending all that money on it.

Hopefully it will become better studied and more available just like HCG.

**Ccdiesel** · 02-06-2014, 04:54 PM

Any thoughts on dosing for HCG and hmg to mimic natural secretion ? Not sure about the rather large amounts people use of HCG only two or three days a week.

Good info guys, I appreciate the posting.