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Thread: Training while cycling testosterone

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    Training while cycling testosterone

    Can anyone tell me if weight training protocols should be different when cycling testosterone ?

    For instance, I primarily train in the 4-8 range, should that be different when cycling; for instance, instead in higher rep ranges for the sake of minimizing stress to connective tissues due to growing faster or lifting heavier than they can adapt for?

    Or instead, do I stay in my low rep ranges and instead supplement with some manner connective tissue helper?

    Thanks in advance guys and gals! I appreciate all of the help.

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    If your goal is hypertrophy then you should incorporate compound movements and train in the 6-8 Rep range. Nothing wrong with a high rep warm up or even a finishing exercise with higher reps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Brown
    If your goal is hypertrophy then you should incorporate compound movements and train in the 6-8 Rep range. Nothing wrong with a high rep warm up or even a finishing exercise with higher reps.
    Regardless of being on a testosterone cycle or not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tduff311 View Post

    Regardless of being on a testosterone cycle or not?

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    You have to cycle your training ...you can't go balls to the wall year in year out. It is important to plan downtime in your training so you can heal up. You don't grow in a linear line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Brown
    You have to cycle your training ...you can't go balls to the wall year in year out. It is important to plan downtime in your training so you can heal up. You don't grow in a linear line.
    I understand cycles, but is it optimal to cycle in the ideal 6-8 rep range you mentioned (4-8 for me) during a testosterone cycle or off cycle, and the higher 8-12 recovery oriented range on the other?

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    Agreed with buster (again)
    I switch my training routines every 6 weeks
    I lift heavy 8 rep range then I switch to high intensity for 2 weeks then 5 days straight rest and back at.
    I try to trick my body as much as possible with training and dieting
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    Hi, if you're between 6-12 reps and always using proper form you will see results and a bonus if your nutrition is in order. I try not to overthink weight training and pay close attention to my nutrition, it's 80% of body composition. IMO. Cheers..

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    Quote Originally Posted by derekkpapa1
    Agreed with buster (again) I switch my training routines every 6 weeks I lift heavy 8 rep range then I switch to high intensity for 2 weeks then 5 days straight rest and back at. I try to trick my body as much as possible with training and dieting
    Thanks, but more specifically, with regard to being off or on cycle, how should training differentiate?

    I ask because 2 trainers who used gear and knew I was cycling testosterone , previously put me on high rep high volume workouts with no exercises ever going below 8 reps. Once I left them I started training primarily in the 4-8 rep range, cycling every 5th week primarily into 2-3 reps, and every 6th a rest week (Beyond Bigger Leaner Stronger plan). I made huge gains doing this in strength and some muscle, but now my elbow and shoulder joints ache, sometimes throb.

    This made me wonder if this could be why they kept me in higher rep ranges....something to do with cycling gear (just testosterone for me) possibly influencing this?

    Any specific insights on this from your experiences?

    Again, thanks for everyone's help here. Just need more insight on training with gear as opposed to off gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tduff311 View Post

    I understand cycles, but is it optimal to cycle in the ideal 6-8 rep range you mentioned (4-8 for me) during a testosterone cycle or off cycle, and the higher 8-12 recovery oriented range on the other?

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    That is one way to look at it. You don't have to live and die by those Rep ranges but when you are on cycle then yes .....lift like a madman for hypertrophy and train at 80% say post cycle with some higher reps.

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    What about hitting opposing muscle groups twice(in the 6-12 rep range/12-15 sets per body part) a wk supersetted in a HIIT style(high intensity low rest(30s-45s) of training... First split - Chest/back supersetted - legs - bis/tris & shoulders(all reps no more than 12 but till failure) - then repeat (but go in the 6-8 range bringing you to failure by 8 reps)! Everything is supersetted in the HIIT style though keeping intensity high yhroghout... 6 days on one off thru cycle!
    Last edited by NACH3; 01-16-2015 at 09:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3
    What about hitting opposing muscle groups twice(in the 6-12 rep range/12-15 sets per body part) a wk supersetted in a HIIT style(high intensity low rest(30s-45s) of training... First split - Chest/back supersetted - legs - bis/tris & shoulders(all reps no more than 12 but till failure) - then repeat (but go in the 6-8 range bringing you to failure by 8 reps)! Everything is supersetted in the HIIT style though keeping intensity high yhroghout... 6 days on one off thru cycle!
    Sounds intense. And off cycle how would you differentiate your training?

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    After cycle take a wk off after blasting your body(b/c you just can)Drop going to gym down to 4 dys and switch to concentrating on the eccentric part(tempo being 1/4/1... Meaning 1s lifting/flexion(concentric), w/a 1s pause, then 4s lowering the weight(eccentric) at higher reps hitting the muscle in a different fashion... In and out of the gym in 30-45 min, this will help in keeping gains!

    Marcus' Diary is great and his post on keeping gains for the moderate AAS user, etc!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tduff311 View Post

    I understand cycles, but is it optimal to cycle in the ideal 6-8 rep range you mentioned (4-8 for me) during a testosterone cycle or off cycle, and the higher 8-12 recovery oriented range on the other?

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    If you want to put on muscle you need to up the reps to 12-15 with moderate weight and keep your workout intense, unless you're cycling for strength. Save the strength training for off cycle, you don't want to train intensely off cycle because you'll put to much stress on your body and it cannot handle the damage to the tissue because of low T you won't be able to build muscle, your body will be catabolic. So you'll want to strength train to keep your body stable and hopefully keep your gains, which will depend on your off cycle recovery and your diet.

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    Agreed...on a cut for sure/& building lots if LBM! I too, Train this way on cycle as you can train so much more intensely on cycle your body(if continued in that HIIT style high intensity range) you'll overtrain within a month or two off cycle! As Cody stated your body is shutdown not producing test at this time(therefore PCT NEEDED) & your body is now in a catabolic state which will make your body want to lose its new found muscle, thus heavier movements shorter duration will aid in keeping gains...
    Last edited by NACH3; 01-16-2015 at 10:40 PM.

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    Thanks Cody and Nach3 for the insight.

    Post cycle testosterone loss is not an issue for me as in the off cycle I am a straight TRT/HRT patient on about 150-200 weekly (75-100 twice weekly alternating deltoids).

    For background, I just completed my first cycle running about 6-700 weekly (3-350 twice weekly alternating deltoids).

    However, since coming off cycle, I have definitely felt the elbow and shoulder pain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95
    If you want to put on muscle you need to up the reps to 12-15 with moderate weight and keep your workout intense, unless you're cycling for strength. Save the strength training for off cycle, you don't want to train intensely off cycle because you'll put to much stress on your body and it cannot handle the damage to the tissue because of low T you won't be able to build muscle, your body will be catabolic. So you'll want to strength train to keep your body stable and hopefully keep your gains, which will depend on your off cycle recovery and your diet.
    Thanks, that makes sense.

    Since I went off cycle about 2 months ago now, then i should be on strength training low reps and high rest for muscle preservation then, correct?

    Once back on cycle, 12-15 HIIT style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3
    After cycle take a wk off after blasting your body(b/c you just can)Drop going to gym down to 4 dys and switch to concentrating on the eccentric part(tempo being 1/4/1... Meaning 1s lifting/flexion(concentric), w/a 1s pause, then 4s lowering the weight(eccentric) at higher reps hitting the muscle in a different fashion... In and out of the gym in 30-45 min, this will help in keeping gains! Marcus' Diary is great and his post on keeping gains for the moderate AAS user, etc!
    So, following this off-cycle protocol, what rep range is ideal? Strength between 4-8 reps and under 20 sets a muscle?

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    Yes that can/will work... But too, cut the workouts shorter, heavier and concentrate on the eccentric part of the lift more during this time(PCT) do you don't overtrain either... Diet will let us know if it's dialed in by retaining your gains or not! Then blast your body to failure which should be anywhere between 8-15 reps depending on bulking or cutting aswell!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3
    Yes that can/will work... But too, cut the workouts shorter, heavier and concentrate on the eccentric part of the lift more during this time(PCT) do you don't overtrain either... Diet will let us know if it's dialed in by retaining your gains or not! Then blast your body to failure which should be anywhere between 8-15 reps depending on bulking or cutting aswell!
    Okay, so after those 20 low rep compound strength eccentric-focused sets, finish each off-cycle workout by blasting the muscle to failure above that low rep range..a single exercise and set at that blast burnout per muscle group trained?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tduff311 View Post
    Okay, so after those 20 low rep compound strength eccentric-focused sets, finish each off-cycle workout by blasting the muscle to failure above that low rep range..a single exercise and set at that blast burnout per muscle group trained?

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    That too! But also staying in a rep range from 5-12(5 being a power movement)... You can go to failure at 5 reps or 20 reps it's how you set your weight do your hitting failure at whatever rep range your in... It's all based off of the weight you can do only 5 or 15 times but no way to get not one more rep in! Make sense? (so on your last rep your fighting your ass off - with good form still -

    After cycle hit body parts only like 6-8 sets per body part/on cycle 12-16per body part!
    Last edited by NACH3; 01-17-2015 at 12:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3
    That too! But also staying in a rep range from 5-12(5 being a power movement)... You can go to failure at 5 reps or 20 reps it's how you set your weight do your hitting failure at whatever rep range you want... It's all based off of the weight you can do only 5 or 15 times but no way to get not one more rep in! Make sense? (so on your last rep your fighting your ass off - with good form still - After cycle hit body parts only like 6-8 sets per body part/on cycle 12-16per body part!
    Makes sense. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95 View Post
    If you want to put on muscle you need to up the reps to 12-15 with moderate weight and keep your workout intense, unless you're cycling for strength. Save the strength training for off cycle, you don't want to train intensely off cycle because you'll put to much stress on your body and it cannot handle the damage to the tissue because of low T you won't be able to build muscle, your body will be catabolic. So you'll want to strength train to keep your body stable and hopefully keep your gains, which will depend on your off cycle recovery and your diet.
    Not sure I would agree with this at all. To me, this is totally backwards. But to each his own. If you want size, 6-8 reps is ideal.

    If you want to keep your gains, then keep your nutrition high enough to sustain your gains. Training wise, what built the muscle will also keep it on you. Just pull back the intensity from time to time, when your body tells you to.

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    Keep gains?

    Off cycle

    WTF is going on in here. Lol


    On cycle - kill it(don't injure yourself)

    Off cycle - keep it solid
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallSak
    Not sure I would agree with this at all. To me, this is totally backwards. But to each his own. If you want size, 6-8 reps is ideal. If you want to keep your gains, then keep your nutrition high enough to sustain your gains. Training wise, what built the muscle will also keep it on you. Just pull back the intensity from time to time, when your body tells you to.
    Lol thanks BallSak. This is actually what I was thinking but started having my doubts. Why would you do high reps to put on muscle? Thought it must have something to do with being on cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by < <Samson> >
    Keep gains? Off cycle WTF is going on in here. Lol On cycle - kill it(don't injure yourself) Off cycle - keep it solid
    Thanks Samson,

    What do you mean by keeping it solid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tduff311 View Post

    Thanks Samson,

    What do you mean by keeping it solid?

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    Keep it solid.........bro, everyone is telling you more or less the same thing! On cycle.. you train 100% Max intensity and volume. Off cycle .. .you obviously can't train at that level so you need to back off a little bit in overall workout volume and train a bit lighter because your body just can't move the weight it did on cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tduff311 View Post

    Lol thanks BallSak. This is actually what I was thinking but started having my doubts. Why would you do high reps to put on muscle? Thought it must have something to do with being on cycle.

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    The reason why you want intensity with high reps is because the more intensity you have the more muscle fibers it will tear in the end. But with low reps, you're supposed to take you're time with the reps . It just doesn't give you the burn the high intensity high reps gives you. In the end the higher intensity with the right weight 12-15 reps will tear the most muscle fibers resulting in more gains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95 View Post
    The reason why you want intensity with high reps is because the more intensity you have the more muscle fibers it will tear in the end. But with low reps, you're supposed to take you're time with the reps . It just doesn't give you the burn the high intensity high reps gives you. In the end the higher intensity with the right weight 12-15 reps will tear the most muscle fibers resulting in more gains.
    High reps = volume
    Heavy weight = intensity

    Do you even lift?

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    First of all you train diffrently depending on your goal. Second if you want to be a powerlifter then high rep is a waste of time(more or less) and if u want to get ready for the beach or comp then u should stick with higher reps and more isolation(dont exclude compound tho). Up the volume 20-30% and keep it simple. Trying to set the world record every time you are on the juice will end up destroying your joints, tendons, ligaments and just about everything else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfarre View Post
    High reps = volume
    Heavy weight = intensity

    Do you even lift?
    Are you high? You have it all wrong bud.

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    Completely incorrect.

    I have defended this point many times and will only say this.

    Your CNS is the biggest hurdle to pressing weight. I cannot and will not speak for people 5'5-5'9 that try to press 400 lbs+. Going to 2x your weight and beyond crosses into a different type of training territory called maxing and recovering... Tiny M (World Record Holder on the Bench) details this quite trnsparently on youtube and many articles he has interviewed for. That is how it is done at the truly higher weights.

    High reps are such a waste to Powerlifters that they do 6 week segments 3x a year GVT format while breaking into the next strength range for olympic trained peeps. Such a waste to powerlifters it is the most popular training style in the world for professional athletes.

    Sheish.





    Quote Originally Posted by Judesvinet View Post
    First of all you train diffrently depending on your goal. Second if you want to be a powerlifter then high rep is a waste of time(more or less) and if u want to get ready for the beach or comp then u should stick with higher reps and more isolation(dont exclude compound tho). Up the volume 20-30% and keep it simple. Trying to set the world record every time you are on the juice will end up destroying your joints, tendons, ligaments and just about everything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody95 View Post
    Are you high? You have it all wrong bud.
    No, BUD, you just have no understanding about training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier View Post

    Your CNS is the biggest hurdle to pressing weight. I cannot and will not speak for people 5'5-5'9 that try to press 400 lbs+. Going to 2x your weight and beyond crosses into a different type of training territory called maxing and recovering... Tiny M (World Record Holder on the Bench) details this quite trnsparently on youtube and many articles he has interviewed for.

    Sheish.
    Yes you are correct, what Tiny M say or do applies to everything in this world.

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    Chicagotarsier is offline Senior Member
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    Well he benched 1000 lbs....I think that would make him pretty much the expert.

    But even if you go back and read others threads..there are many ways to do gains from lifting many ways. There is no one right way to lift weights for the novice lifter.

    When you have to basically break your CNS to the degree you have to to push 1000 lbs it is not something you can do daily, weekly, monthly. Mark Henry says you get TWO strong lifts a year and you time them to your important events. After you make a big lift your CNS is so shattered it takes half a year to heal it to be able to do another big lift. There is a science involved because the big men say and do the same things.

    It is also why you dont see the same guys breaking their lift records weekly...just doesnt work like that at truly heavy weights.

    I bow to anyone over 6 ft who can do 2x their weight at 5+ reps for 3-5 sets. Not many can get that done on the big 3 exercises....not many at all. I mean I will get down and bow.

    I digress


    The real point is progressing to 1-1.5 your weight on an exercise is basic and many paths can take you there. Getting to the 2x level is another animal. Going to beyond 2x is another animal. It is why rep training is so important. You arent going to get to 1.5x your weight reps by only pressing 30 reps a week on that body part from a non-conditioned body with years of training. You have to do many reps and break your CNS at those levels to make those goals. Reps Reps Reps.




    Quote Originally Posted by Judesvinet View Post
    Yes you are correct, what Tiny M say or do applies to everything in this world.
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    Also, it absolutely depends on your goal... But NASM(National Assoc. of Sports Medecine) has a pyramid that they use:

    From bottom up:
    1. Stabilization/Endurance - 12-15 reps even up to 20 reps
    2. Hypertrophy - 8-10 maybe 6-12 reps(also could up volume a lil(hence 12reps or
    3. Strength - 6-8 reps
    4. Power - 1-5 reps

    Everyone has its place!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier View Post
    Well he benched 1000 lbs....I think that would make him pretty much the expert.

    But even if you go back and read others threads..there are many ways to do gains from lifting many ways. There is no one right way to lift weights for the novice lifter.
    Great points but I still believe that its a big diffrence beeing a novice lifter and a world record holder who's been around for a long time. Thats a whole diffrent chapter. Thats why I wrote more or less. Its the same with bodybuilding, in the beginning everything goes smooth then u have to break plateus and try diffrent methods to develop.

    Funny how you mention lifting your bw x 2 since many guys advocates that rule before telling somenone to even think about jumping into steroids .

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    Lifting & fitness in general is just like work or any other sport - you learn over time

    That's it - no other special easy shit hur


    It took me years to get to the point of training where I'm at now

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    ^^ I hear ya... Takes yrs of knowledge/dedication/& consistency... And in the beginning you think you know everything... I'm 31 and still learning new ways to train and diet! We all think we know everything(especially like a couple yes in to training)... When most of us had to learn what we were doing wrong first b4 getting it fine tuned and right now!
    Last edited by NACH3; 01-17-2015 at 03:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfarre View Post

    No, BUD, you just have no understanding about training.
    Yet you're the one giving bad advice. Come back when you can back up your statement and don't talk shit.

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    I should have probably specified that my goal is not to be a power lifter, but progress as a bodybuilder. Apologies for any confusion in the recent responses.

    That said, I just got an earful of contradicting advice.

    I'm off cycle. Im on TRT so my levels are solid and need no PCT. My elbows and shoulders have been sore for a month now.

    While I enjoy lifting heavy with added program cycling in rep ranges, I wonder if that is ideal training off cycle as my joints don't tolerate it as well off cycle.

    This led me to ask what my fellow more experienced counterparts using gear and training for years would advise.

    Hopefully that's more clear.

    Thanks!

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