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Thread: Time to get serious.

  1. #1
    Nogbad the bad is offline Associate Member
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    Time to get serious.

    Hi all,
    After years of on and off bodybuilding,i've decided to give it one last shot.At forty eight,i understand my best years
    are behind me,but undeterred,i'm back in the gym,doing a four day split routine,with the weekend consisting of
    cardio,and a bit of forearm exercise.
    I've never used a steroid before,but because of joint issues,i decided to have a cycle with deca .
    Not wanting to use this on its own,i'm pinning 200mg of decanol,with 1 ml of T400.
    I intend doing 12 weeks,but stopping the decanol at 10 weeks.I pin once a week,in my quads,and
    have done so 4 times now.I feel generally better all round,than previous to starting a cycle,and my
    energy levels,and libido are greatly improved.I haven't felt any serous strength gains yet,but wouldn't
    expect any,at this early stage,although i am adding plates regularly,on the equipment.
    Don't know if anyone has any views on my cycle,just thought i'd let you know what i was up to!

  2. #2
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    If you have done your homework about cycling, nutrition, PCT, and having blood work done....I wish you luck in your new adventure.

  3. #3
    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Deca is the wrong steroid for a first timer.

    Read this, stop the deca and follow it: http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

  4. #4
    redz's Avatar
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    You running an ai or at least have one ready?

  5. #5
    songdog's Avatar
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    Deca needs to be run for more than 10 weeks also and do you got a DA?

  6. #6
    600@50's Avatar
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    Do you have any precycle blood work done? You may be a candidate for TRT already at 48.

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    Welcome to the forum. The proper use of AAS can enhance your quality of life significantly. It definitely has for me.

  8. #8
    Back In Black's Avatar
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    Back in the gym since when?

    Ai?

    Hcg ?

    PCT plan?

  9. #9
    Nogbad the bad is offline Associate Member
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    Ok,thankyou for the replies.
    First off,there are differences of opinion,regarding cycles and doses,and what i'm doing,is what i've thought about for years,not just a week/month/whatever.
    The deca ,is by general consensus,a great aid to joints,which has caused my on off relationship with the gym.The use of test,is self explanatory.
    I have a thorough health check,every year,and have passed with flying colours each time.
    I neither drink,nor smoke,and my hobbies have always been active outdoor kinds,so i am pretty fit.
    This may seem odd to some,or even stupid,but at my age,and after losing a couple of people,my own mortality is something i regularly think about.
    What i have embarked upon,is part of a bucket list.When i was a lot younger,i trained like a lunatic,used numerous supplements,but could never
    get my arms to go past 18 1/2 inches,or my chest bigger than 52 inches.Because of the health implications,i just would not use roids.
    Now,in all honesty,i do not care greatly about the health implications,and illness and death gets us all sooner or later.
    I've covered some bases,like having Arimidex ,and have my pct,for end of cycle reasons,but that's enough for me.
    What i'm doing,will help me,or hurt me,but i'm a reasonably intelligent adult,and it's my choice.

  10. #10
    600@50's Avatar
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    Ok this is all well and good but you will find that the reason people ask these questions is because they care and they want to help. The more info you provide without an attitude......the more responses and help you'll receive. It's up to you now.

  11. #11
    Marsoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nogbad the bad View Post
    Ok,thankyou for the replies.
    First off,there are differences of opinion,regarding cycles and doses,and what i'm doing,is what i've thought about for years,not just a week/month/whatever.
    The deca ,is by general consensus,a great aid to joints,which has caused my on off relationship with the gym.The use of test,is self explanatory.
    I have a thorough health check,every year,and have passed with flying colours each time.
    I neither drink,nor smoke,and my hobbies have always been active outdoor kinds,so i am pretty fit.
    This may seem odd to some,or even stupid,but at my age,and after losing a couple of people,my own mortality is something i regularly think about.
    What i have embarked upon,is part of a bucket list.When i was a lot younger,i trained like a lunatic,used numerous supplements,but could never
    get my arms to go past 18 1/2 inches,or my chest bigger than 52 inches.Because of the health implications,i just would not use roids.
    Now,in all honesty,i do not care greatly about the health implications,and illness and death gets us all sooner or later.
    I've covered some bases,like having Arimidex ,and have my pct,for end of cycle reasons,but that's enough for me.
    What i'm doing,will help me,or hurt me,but i'm a reasonably intelligent adult,and it's my choice.
    One of the reason I think they mentioned the deca not being a good idea other then they never recommend anything besides testosterone for first cycle. But deca usually takes a long time before you start noticing the effects and results etc. I nevermind cycled but this is what I've learned.

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    kelkel's Avatar
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    Make sure you're using an AI and HCG on cycle as suggested in the Successful First Cycle thread please. They really should not be optional if you remotely care about your health. Make sure you get adequate blood work about 8 weeks post pct as listed in the thread as well.

    Best of luck.
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  13. #13
    Nogbad the bad is offline Associate Member
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    It's all about opinions really.You seem to think i have an attitude problem,yet i find your response patronising,but in the greater scheme
    of things,neither matters. Peace.

  14. #14
    Nogbad the bad is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsoc View Post
    One of the reason I think they mentioned the deca not being a good idea other then they never recommend anything besides testosterone for first cycle. But deca usually takes a long time before you start noticing the effects and results etc. I nevermind cycled but this is what I've learned.
    Fully understood friend,but as i mentioned,i've had serious issues with impingement,and it's very well known that deca is an excellent lubricator.
    I've only been back in the gym 5 weeks,and despite training damn hard,touch wood,my joints are fine.Even if that's a placebo,i'll take it.

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    I see no reason why you can't use deca ,
    as long as you're aware it can be a lot harder to recover your natural testosterone production afterwards.
    But there are differing views on this, as there are different views on whether deca does anything for joints at all.
    I think it does, and can therefore understand you want it in your cycle.

    But as for using hcg and an AI, that's pretty consistently considered very smart to do.

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    Nogbad the bad is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    I see no reason why you can't use deca ,
    as long as you're aware it can be a lot harder to recover your natural testosterone production afterwards.
    But there are differing views on this, as there are different views on whether deca does anything for joints at all.
    I think it does, and can therefore understand you want it in your cycle.

    But as for using hcg and an AI, that's pretty consistently considered very smart to do.
    Thanks for your input bud.
    As you correctly say,there are differing views regarding the deca,and i'm going with the positive.I may keep it going for say 12 weeks,instead
    of ten,but whether or not that will make any significant difference,i can't even guess.I may increase the test to 14 weeks,to allow for the 2
    extra weeks of deca,and see where i'm at.
    At present,i feel fine,and look forward to my gym time,where it used to feel like a chore.I jumped on one of those exercise bikes last week,
    first time ever,and at a more or less constant 30mph,i did 20km in 42 minutes,and 27 seconds.This week i did the same distance,in 40
    minutes dead,so even my cardio is improving.Things appear to be going in the right direction,so i'm happy with that..thanks again.

  17. #17
    PT1982's Avatar
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    As was mentioned earlier, deca isn't ideal for a first timer, but it's been done more times than we could count. I wouldn't advise it though. If you are really concerned about your joints, I would opt for known supplements or at most a peptide like tb500. I often run deca for joint relief during cycle, but due to its horrible effects on the heart, I never use it therapeutically more than 100mgs weekly. As I get older, I start thinking of the long term, and why risk more than something is worth? Test will do all you want and more.

  18. #18
    Nogbad the bad is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT1982 View Post
    As was mentioned earlier, deca isn't ideal for a first timer, but it's been done more times than we could count. I wouldn't advise it though. If you are really concerned about your joints, I would opt for known supplements or at most a peptide like tb500. I often run deca for joint relief during cycle, but due to its horrible effects on the heart, I never use it therapeutically more than 100mgs weekly. As I get older, I start thinking of the long term, and why risk more than something is worth? Test will do all you want and more.
    Been down the supplement route,and the only one i've ever really accepted helped,was omega3. I use that every day,and it helps,but not enough.
    The glucosamine/chondroitin thing,is at best a placebo,and did zero for me,and i have been looking at a couple of supplements,that contain hyaluronic
    acid,which anecdotally look promising.
    Tried the peps,but they didn't work,and weren't cheap,so i've ended up at deca .
    I may drop the dose to half,but then again,i may not,but i'll give it some thought over the next day or so.
    Appreciate your input,much obliged.

  19. #19
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    The reason we try to discourage the use of deca in a first cycle is because it makes it hard to pinpoint the cause of negative side effects with multiple compounds. Using deca probably won't hurt you and you might never have a negative side. We just encourage people to add one compound at a time so diagnosing side effects is easier.

    I can tell you that I feel much better when on deca. I believe it helps the joints and makes lifting easier. However, I've had problems with blood pressure while on it. I have tried a small dose, 50mg/week, for therapeutic effects with limited success.

    Keep an eye on your BP and don't go to hard in the gym. If you've only been back for 5 weeks your body isn't ready to lift the weights your muscles will be able to put up.

    Good luck with everything.

  20. #20
    PT1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nogbad the bad View Post
    Been down the supplement route,and the only one i've ever really accepted helped,was omega3. I use that every day,and it helps,but not enough.
    The glucosamine/chondroitin thing,is at best a placebo,and did zero for me,and i have been looking at a couple of supplements,that contain hyaluronic
    acid,which anecdotally look promising.
    Tried the peps,but they didn't work,and weren't cheap,so i've ended up at deca .
    I may drop the dose to half,but then again,i may not,but i'll give it some thought over the next day or so.
    Appreciate your input,much obliged.
    You're welcome and no problem at all. If your are dead set on deca (I'm not saying you should), 50mgs a week is more than sufficient for joint relief and you won't have the sides to worry about or using caber or prami. Like I said, the older I get, the more health conscious I become. And deca is a known enemy of the heart. Food for thought.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT1982 View Post
    I often run deca for joint relief during cycle, but due to its horrible effects on the heart, I never use it therapeutically more than 100mgs weekly. As I get older, I start thinking of the long term, and why risk more than something is worth? Test will do all you want and more.

    I'm not saying your advice re Deca is flawed, but can you link me with someone who's death is directly linked to Deca use? I've read a plethora of studies re Deca, Test and every other AAS known to man. Basically supraphysiologic doses of anything can harm you. There's a risk / reward element to this sport as I'm sure you're aware. Yes, test can do all you want but test in and of itself can lead to heart issues as well. Think LVH as a primary example.
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  22. #22
    Obs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nogbad the bad View Post
    Fully understood friend,but as i mentioned,i've had serious issues with impingement,and it's very well known that deca is an excellent lubricator.
    I've only been back in the gym 5 weeks,and despite training damn hard,touch wood,my joints are fine.Even if that's a placebo,i'll take it.
    Lubricator? No. It eliminates swelling that is all. Glucosamine with msm is your joint lubricator.

  23. #23
    PT1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    I'm not saying your advice re Deca is flawed, but can you link me with someone who's death is directly linked to Deca use? I've read a plethora of studies re Deca, Test and every other AAS known to man. Basically supraphysiologic doses of anything can harm you. There's a risk / reward element to this sport as I'm sure you're aware. Yes, test can do all you want but test in and of itself can lead to heart issues as well. Think LVH as a primary example.
    I don't know of anyone to die as a direct result of any steroid . I'm not sure what you are asking? He wants to use deca in his first cycle for joint relief. I suggested if he was dead set on using deca for therapeutic reasons, there was no need in him using supraphysiological doses for that purpose. Maybe you just saw where I wrote "dead" and not "set". I wasn't saying he could die as a result in any way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT1982 View Post
    I don't know of anyone to die as a direct result of any steroid. I'm not sure what you are asking? He wants to use deca in his first cycle for joint relief. I suggested if he was dead set on using deca for therapeutic reasons, there was no need in him using supraphysiological doses for that purpose. Maybe you just saw where I wrote "dead" and not "set". I wasn't saying he could die as a result in any way.
    Mike Matarazzo: Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1992 to 2001. Four-time top 5 finisher at the Night of Champions. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 47.
    Dan Puckett: 1st place 2006 NPC Collegiate National Heavyweight. Died from heart failure in 2007, age 22.
    Scott Klein: Four-time NPC Heavyweight competitor (1995 and 1997), two-time NPC super-heavyweight competitor (1998 and 2000). Died from kidney failure in 2003, age 30.
    Robert Benavente: Competed in multiple NPC shows from 1994 (teen division) to 2003 (1st place in Southern States). Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Trevor Smith: Bodybuilding writer and coach. Never competed, but weighed over 400 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Andreas Munzer: 13 top-five placings from 1986-96. Considered a "pioneer" in the use of diuretics for a super-peeled look. Died from multiple organ failure in 1996, age 32.
    Mohammed Benaziza: Seven total Grand Prix wins in 1990 and 1992, 1st place at the 1990 Night of Champions (beating Dorian Yates), two top 5 Mr. Olympia showings (1989 and 1992). Died from heart failure hours after winning the Grand Prix Holland show in 1992, age 33.
    Daniele Seccarecci: IFBB competitor from 2007 to 2013. 2010 Guinness World Record Holder for "heaviest competitive bodybuilder" at 297 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 33.
    Luke Wood: IFBB competitor from 2001 to 2008, often breaking into the top 10. Died from complications following a kidney transplant in 2011, age 35.
    Chris Janusz: Amateur competitor, nutrition coach, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2009, age 37.
    Art Atwood: Consistent top 10 finisher in IFBB shows from 2002 to 2004, including 1st at the 2002 Toronto Pro. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 37.
    Mat Duvall: Four-time top 3 finisher in NPC Super-heavyweight division (1999, 2001, 2002, 1st in 2003). Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 40.
    Ed Van Amsterdam: European champion in the mid-1990s, frequent top 10 IFBB finisher in 2002 and 2003. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 40.
    Fannie Barrios: Two-time Jan Tana winner (2001, 2002). Three top 8 placings at Ms. Olympia (3rd place in 2002). Died from a stroke in 2005, age 41.
    Charles Durr: Six top 5 NPC and IFBB finishes from 1988 to 1999. Competed in the 2004 IFBB North American Championships. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 44.
    Anthony D'Arezzo: Three-time top 10 NPC Heavyweight (1993, 1994, 1995). 1st at NPC New England in 1997. Died from a heart attack the night before a contest in 2006, age 44.
    Greg Kovacs: Competed in several IFBB shows from 1997 to 2005. Known in the industry as one of the largest off-season bodybuilders, regularly weighing over 400 pounds. Died from heart failure in 2013, age 44.
    Ron Teufel: 1978 IFBB Mr. USA. Runner-up to Samir Bannout at 1979 World Amateurs. Top 10 IFBB competitor in 1981 and 1982. Died from liver failure in 2002, age 45.
    Hans Hopstaken: NPC Masters competitor in 1998 and 1999. IFBB competitor in 2000 and 2001, including two top 5 placings at the Masters Olympia. Died from heart failure in 2002, age 45.
    Frank Hillebrand: Light-heavyweight champion (1987, 1989), several top 10 IFBB finishes from 1990 to 1993. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 45.
    Alex Azarian: NPC competitor from 2002 to 2009, including a total of five 1st place wins. Training, nutrition, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2015, age 45.
    Ray Mentzer: IFBB competitor from 1979 to 1982 including 1st place 1978 Mr. USA, and several top 3 placings. Died from kidney failure in 2001, age 47.
    Nasser El Sonbaty: Frequent top 8 IFBB competitor from 1990 to 1992, consistent top 4 finisher in shows from 1993 to 1998, including 2nd at the 1997 Mr. Olympia and 3rd at the 1995 and 1998 Olympias. Died from complications from heart and kidney failure in 2014, age 47.
    Don Ross: Amateur competitor from 1965 to 1972, pro bodybuilder from 1973 to 1980 with 10 top 5 placings. Died from a heart attack in 1995, age 49.
    Mike Mentzer: Consistent top 3 IFBB pro from 1975 to 1979, including 2nd in the 1976 and 1977 Mr. Universe, 1st place 1976 Mr. America, and 1st place 1979 heavyweight Mr. Olympia (lost the Overall to Frank Zane). First pro bodybuilder to be awarded a perfect score in a contest. Died from heart complications in 2001, age 49.
    Don Youngblood: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 1994 to 2002. 2nd place at the 2001 Masters Olympia and winning 1st in the 2002 Masters Olympia. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 49.
    Stoil Stoilov: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 2005 to 2014. Died in 2014 one week after placing 2nd at a National show, age 49.
    Terri Harris: Frequent top 5 finisher in NPC and IFBB shows from 2002 to 2012, including several 1st place wins in 2011 and 2012. Died from a heart attack two days after a contest in 2013, age 50.
    Ed Kawak: 5-time Mr. Universe (1982-1985, 1993). IFBB competitor in 1996 and 1999. Died from a heart attack in 2006, age 51.
    Vince Comerford: Amateur competitor from 1984 to 1986. 1st place Middleweight at 1987 NPC Nationals (lost the Overall to Shawn Ray). IFBB competitor in 1989 and 1990. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 52.
    Greg DeFerro: 1979 IFBB Mr. International, five top 4 placing in IFBB shows from 1981-1984, including 2nd to Lee Haney at the '83 Night of Champions. Died from heart disease in 2007, age 53.

    But wait theres more....

    Near death cases:

    Tom Prince: NPC competitor from 1995 to 1997, including 1st place at the 1997 Nationals. IFBB competitor from 1999 to 2002. Suffered kidney failure during contest prep in 2003, age 34. Retired in 2004, eventually received a kidney transplant in 2012.
    Don Long: NPC Light-heavyweight (1992) and Heavyweight (1993 to 1995). Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1996 to 1999. Suffered kidney failure in 1999, age 34. Received a kidney transplant in 2002, which failed in 2003. Competed in several IFBB shows from 2006-2009. Received another kidney transplant in 2011.
    Flex Wheeler: NPC competitor from 1989 to 1992. One of the best IFBB pros from 1993 to 2000 with a total of 17 first place wins. He made 2nd place at the Mr. Olympia three times ('93, '98, '99) and two-time top 4 at the Olympia ('96 and '00). Suffered kidney failure and "officially" retired in 2000, age 35. Competed twice more, 7th place at the '02 Mr. Olympia (supposedly drug-free) and 3rd at the '03 Ironman. Received a kidney transplant in 2003.
    Orville Burke: NPC Heavyweight in 1996 and 1997 and Super-heavyweight in 1998. Frequent IFBB top 10 competitor from 1999 to 2002, including 1st at the 2001 Night of Champions and 1st at the '01 Toronto Pro. Two-time top 10 at the Mr. Olympia. Fell into a six-week coma after complications during surgery in 2002, age 39.
    Mike Morris: NPC competitor from 1990 to 1997. IFBB pro from 2001 to 2005. Retired in 2005 after developing signs of kidney problems, age 35.

    These are just the famous ones and not all of them by a damn sight.
    Yes, this shit can kill you and quick. Notice the trend heart/kidney
    Last edited by Obs; 03-02-2017 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Extra quote got in there

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    PT1982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Mike Matarazzo: Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1992 to 2001. Four-time top 5 finisher at the Night of Champions. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 47.
    Dan Puckett: 1st place 2006 NPC Collegiate National Heavyweight. Died from heart failure in 2007, age 22.
    Scott Klein: Four-time NPC Heavyweight competitor (1995 and 1997), two-time NPC super-heavyweight competitor (1998 and 2000). Died from kidney failure in 2003, age 30.
    Robert Benavente: Competed in multiple NPC shows from 1994 (teen division) to 2003 (1st place in Southern States). Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Trevor Smith: Bodybuilding writer and coach. Never competed, but weighed over 400 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Andreas Munzer: 13 top-five placings from 1986-96. Considered a "pioneer" in the use of diuretics for a super-peeled look. Died from multiple organ failure in 1996, age 32.
    Mohammed Benaziza: Seven total Grand Prix wins in 1990 and 1992, 1st place at the 1990 Night of Champions (beating Dorian Yates), two top 5 Mr. Olympia showings (1989 and 1992). Died from heart failure hours after winning the Grand Prix Holland show in 1992, age 33.
    Daniele Seccarecci: IFBB competitor from 2007 to 2013. 2010 Guinness World Record Holder for "heaviest competitive bodybuilder" at 297 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 33.
    Luke Wood: IFBB competitor from 2001 to 2008, often breaking into the top 10. Died from complications following a kidney transplant in 2011, age 35.
    Chris Janusz: Amateur competitor, nutrition coach, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2009, age 37.
    Art Atwood: Consistent top 10 finisher in IFBB shows from 2002 to 2004, including 1st at the 2002 Toronto Pro. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 37.
    Mat Duvall: Four-time top 3 finisher in NPC Super-heavyweight division (1999, 2001, 2002, 1st in 2003). Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 40.
    Ed Van Amsterdam: European champion in the mid-1990s, frequent top 10 IFBB finisher in 2002 and 2003. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 40.
    Fannie Barrios: Two-time Jan Tana winner (2001, 2002). Three top 8 placings at Ms. Olympia (3rd place in 2002). Died from a stroke in 2005, age 41.
    Charles Durr: Six top 5 NPC and IFBB finishes from 1988 to 1999. Competed in the 2004 IFBB North American Championships. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 44.
    Anthony D'Arezzo: Three-time top 10 NPC Heavyweight (1993, 1994, 1995). 1st at NPC New England in 1997. Died from a heart attack the night before a contest in 2006, age 44.
    Greg Kovacs: Competed in several IFBB shows from 1997 to 2005. Known in the industry as one of the largest off-season bodybuilders, regularly weighing over 400 pounds. Died from heart failure in 2013, age 44.
    Ron Teufel: 1978 IFBB Mr. USA. Runner-up to Samir Bannout at 1979 World Amateurs. Top 10 IFBB competitor in 1981 and 1982. Died from liver failure in 2002, age 45.
    Hans Hopstaken: NPC Masters competitor in 1998 and 1999. IFBB competitor in 2000 and 2001, including two top 5 placings at the Masters Olympia. Died from heart failure in 2002, age 45.
    Frank Hillebrand: Light-heavyweight champion (1987, 1989), several top 10 IFBB finishes from 1990 to 1993. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 45.
    Alex Azarian: NPC competitor from 2002 to 2009, including a total of five 1st place wins. Training, nutrition, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2015, age 45.
    Ray Mentzer: IFBB competitor from 1979 to 1982 including 1st place 1978 Mr. USA, and several top 3 placings. Died from kidney failure in 2001, age 47.
    Nasser El Sonbaty: Frequent top 8 IFBB competitor from 1990 to 1992, consistent top 4 finisher in shows from 1993 to 1998, including 2nd at the 1997 Mr. Olympia and 3rd at the 1995 and 1998 Olympias. Died from complications from heart and kidney failure in 2014, age 47.
    Don Ross: Amateur competitor from 1965 to 1972, pro bodybuilder from 1973 to 1980 with 10 top 5 placings. Died from a heart attack in 1995, age 49.
    Mike Mentzer: Consistent top 3 IFBB pro from 1975 to 1979, including 2nd in the 1976 and 1977 Mr. Universe, 1st place 1976 Mr. America, and 1st place 1979 heavyweight Mr. Olympia (lost the Overall to Frank Zane). First pro bodybuilder to be awarded a perfect score in a contest. Died from heart complications in 2001, age 49.
    Don Youngblood: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 1994 to 2002. 2nd place at the 2001 Masters Olympia and winning 1st in the 2002 Masters Olympia. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 49.
    Stoil Stoilov: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 2005 to 2014. Died in 2014 one week after placing 2nd at a National show, age 49.
    Terri Harris: Frequent top 5 finisher in NPC and IFBB shows from 2002 to 2012, including several 1st place wins in 2011 and 2012. Died from a heart attack two days after a contest in 2013, age 50.
    Ed Kawak: 5-time Mr. Universe (1982-1985, 1993). IFBB competitor in 1996 and 1999. Died from a heart attack in 2006, age 51.
    Vince Comerford: Amateur competitor from 1984 to 1986. 1st place Middleweight at 1987 NPC Nationals (lost the Overall to Shawn Ray). IFBB competitor in 1989 and 1990. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 52.
    Greg DeFerro: 1979 IFBB Mr. International, five top 4 placing in IFBB shows from 1981-1984, including 2nd to Lee Haney at the '83 Night of Champions. Died from heart disease in 2007, age 53.

    But wait theres more....

    Near death cases:

    Tom Prince: NPC competitor from 1995 to 1997, including 1st place at the 1997 Nationals. IFBB competitor from 1999 to 2002. Suffered kidney failure during contest prep in 2003, age 34. Retired in 2004, eventually received a kidney transplant in 2012.
    Don Long: NPC Light-heavyweight (1992) and Heavyweight (1993 to 1995). Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1996 to 1999. Suffered kidney failure in 1999, age 34. Received a kidney transplant in 2002, which failed in 2003. Competed in several IFBB shows from 2006-2009. Received another kidney transplant in 2011.
    Flex Wheeler: NPC competitor from 1989 to 1992. One of the best IFBB pros from 1993 to 2000 with a total of 17 first place wins. He made 2nd place at the Mr. Olympia three times ('93, '98, '99) and two-time top 4 at the Olympia ('96 and '00). Suffered kidney failure and "officially" retired in 2000, age 35. Competed twice more, 7th place at the '02 Mr. Olympia (supposedly drug-free) and 3rd at the '03 Ironman. Received a kidney transplant in 2003.
    Orville Burke: NPC Heavyweight in 1996 and 1997 and Super-heavyweight in 1998. Frequent IFBB top 10 competitor from 1999 to 2002, including 1st at the 2001 Night of Champions and 1st at the '01 Toronto Pro. Two-time top 10 at the Mr. Olympia. Fell into a six-week coma after complications during surgery in 2002, age 39.
    Mike Morris: NPC competitor from 1990 to 1997. IFBB pro from 2001 to 2005. Retired in 2005 after developing signs of kidney problems, age 35.

    These are just the famous ones and not all of them by a damn sight.
    Yes, this shit can kill you and quick. Notice the trend heart/kidney
    Geez! You got that up quick!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT1982 View Post
    Geez! You got that up quick!
    Copy and paste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Copy and paste.
    Lol. I'm on my dang phone. I am not smart with technology. I can't even get a pic to load here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT1982 View Post
    Geez! You got that up quick!
    There are soo many that are thirty or less. Mass doses take out kidneys before hearts it seems. If it didnt kill you to take ridiculous doses i would fashion an intramuscular IV-type, drip and just go forever. I am tempted to anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke
    Mike Matarazzo: Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1992 to 2001. Four-time top 5 finisher at the Night of Champions. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 47. Dan Puckett: 1st place 2006 NPC Collegiate National Heavyweight. Died from heart failure in 2007, age 22. Scott Klein: Four-time NPC Heavyweight competitor (1995 and 1997), two-time NPC super-heavyweight competitor (1998 and 2000). Died from kidney failure in 2003, age 30. Robert Benavente: Competed in multiple NPC shows from 1994 (teen division) to 2003 (1st place in Southern States). Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30. Trevor Smith: Bodybuilding writer and coach. Never competed, but weighed over 400 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30. Andreas Munzer: 13 top-five placings from 1986-96. Considered a "pioneer" in the use of diuretics for a super-peeled look. Died from multiple organ failure in 1996, age 32. Mohammed Benaziza: Seven total Grand Prix wins in 1990 and 1992, 1st place at the 1990 Night of Champions (beating Dorian Yates), two top 5 Mr. Olympia showings (1989 and 1992). Died from heart failure hours after winning the Grand Prix Holland show in 1992, age 33. Daniele Seccarecci: IFBB competitor from 2007 to 2013. 2010 Guinness World Record Holder for "heaviest competitive bodybuilder" at 297 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 33. Luke Wood: IFBB competitor from 2001 to 2008, often breaking into the top 10. Died from complications following a kidney transplant in 2011, age 35. Chris Janusz: Amateur competitor, nutrition coach, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2009, age 37. Art Atwood: Consistent top 10 finisher in IFBB shows from 2002 to 2004, including 1st at the 2002 Toronto Pro. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 37. Mat Duvall: Four-time top 3 finisher in NPC Super-heavyweight division (1999, 2001, 2002, 1st in 2003). Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 40. Ed Van Amsterdam: European champion in the mid-1990s, frequent top 10 IFBB finisher in 2002 and 2003. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 40. Fannie Barrios: Two-time Jan Tana winner (2001, 2002). Three top 8 placings at Ms. Olympia (3rd place in 2002). Died from a stroke in 2005, age 41. Charles Durr: Six top 5 NPC and IFBB finishes from 1988 to 1999. Competed in the 2004 IFBB North American Championships. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 44. Anthony D'Arezzo: Three-time top 10 NPC Heavyweight (1993, 1994, 1995). 1st at NPC New England in 1997. Died from a heart attack the night before a contest in 2006, age 44. Greg Kovacs: Competed in several IFBB shows from 1997 to 2005. Known in the industry as one of the largest off-season bodybuilders, regularly weighing over 400 pounds. Died from heart failure in 2013, age 44. Ron Teufel: 1978 IFBB Mr. USA. Runner-up to Samir Bannout at 1979 World Amateurs. Top 10 IFBB competitor in 1981 and 1982. Died from liver failure in 2002, age 45. Hans Hopstaken: NPC Masters competitor in 1998 and 1999. IFBB competitor in 2000 and 2001, including two top 5 placings at the Masters Olympia. Died from heart failure in 2002, age 45. Frank Hillebrand: Light-heavyweight champion (1987, 1989), several top 10 IFBB finishes from 1990 to 1993. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 45. Alex Azarian: NPC competitor from 2002 to 2009, including a total of five 1st place wins. Training, nutrition, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2015, age 45. Ray Mentzer: IFBB competitor from 1979 to 1982 including 1st place 1978 Mr. USA, and several top 3 placings. Died from kidney failure in 2001, age 47. Nasser El Sonbaty: Frequent top 8 IFBB competitor from 1990 to 1992, consistent top 4 finisher in shows from 1993 to 1998, including 2nd at the 1997 Mr. Olympia and 3rd at the 1995 and 1998 Olympias. Died from complications from heart and kidney failure in 2014, age 47. Don Ross: Amateur competitor from 1965 to 1972, pro bodybuilder from 1973 to 1980 with 10 top 5 placings. Died from a heart attack in 1995, age 49. Mike Mentzer: Consistent top 3 IFBB pro from 1975 to 1979, including 2nd in the 1976 and 1977 Mr. Universe, 1st place 1976 Mr. America, and 1st place 1979 heavyweight Mr. Olympia (lost the Overall to Frank Zane). First pro bodybuilder to be awarded a perfect score in a contest. Died from heart complications in 2001, age 49. Don Youngblood: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 1994 to 2002. 2nd place at the 2001 Masters Olympia and winning 1st in the 2002 Masters Olympia. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 49. Stoil Stoilov: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 2005 to 2014. Died in 2014 one week after placing 2nd at a National show, age 49. Terri Harris: Frequent top 5 finisher in NPC and IFBB shows from 2002 to 2012, including several 1st place wins in 2011 and 2012. Died from a heart attack two days after a contest in 2013, age 50. Ed Kawak: 5-time Mr. Universe (1982-1985, 1993). IFBB competitor in 1996 and 1999. Died from a heart attack in 2006, age 51. Vince Comerford: Amateur competitor from 1984 to 1986. 1st place Middleweight at 1987 NPC Nationals (lost the Overall to Shawn Ray). IFBB competitor in 1989 and 1990. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 52. Greg DeFerro: 1979 IFBB Mr. International, five top 4 placing in IFBB shows from 1981-1984, including 2nd to Lee Haney at the '83 Night of Champions. Died from heart disease in 2007, age 53. But wait theres more.... Near death cases: Tom Prince: NPC competitor from 1995 to 1997, including 1st place at the 1997 Nationals. IFBB competitor from 1999 to 2002. Suffered kidney failure during contest prep in 2003, age 34. Retired in 2004, eventually received a kidney transplant in 2012. Don Long: NPC Light-heavyweight (1992) and Heavyweight (1993 to 1995). Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1996 to 1999. Suffered kidney failure in 1999, age 34. Received a kidney transplant in 2002, which failed in 2003. Competed in several IFBB shows from 2006-2009. Received another kidney transplant in 2011. Flex Wheeler: NPC competitor from 1989 to 1992. One of the best IFBB pros from 1993 to 2000 with a total of 17 first place wins. He made 2nd place at the Mr. Olympia three times ('93, '98, '99) and two-time top 4 at the Olympia ('96 and '00). Suffered kidney failure and "officially" retired in 2000, age 35. Competed twice more, 7th place at the '02 Mr. Olympia (supposedly drug-free) and 3rd at the '03 Ironman. Received a kidney transplant in 2003. Orville Burke: NPC Heavyweight in 1996 and 1997 and Super-heavyweight in 1998. Frequent IFBB top 10 competitor from 1999 to 2002, including 1st at the 2001 Night of Champions and 1st at the '01 Toronto Pro. Two-time top 10 at the Mr. Olympia. Fell into a six-week coma after complications during surgery in 2002, age 39. Mike Morris: NPC competitor from 1990 to 1997. IFBB pro from 2001 to 2005. Retired in 2005 after developing signs of kidney problems, age 35. These are just the famous ones and not all of them by a damn sight. Yes, this shit can kill you and quick. Notice the trend heart/kidney
    Obs, I hope that you had a secretary write this for you. LOL. Good info.

  30. #30
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    I will catch shit for this but I personally believe being extremely muscular, even naturally, has its taxes on your lifespan. If you carry around half an extra person in muscle you wont live as long as if you hadn't been so big. IMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    Obs, I hope that you had a secretary write this for you. LOL. Good info.
    Chris Colucci, actually. Bet it took two people a year to gather the info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    I will catch shit for this but I personally believe being extremely muscular, even naturally, has its taxes on your lifespan. If you carry around half an extra person in muscle you wont live as long as if you hadn't been so big. IMHO
    Absolutely! I don't think you'll catch flack because if we're true to ourselves, we know the risks. I remember going from 180 to 205 in a 6 week span. I won't say what I did, but that extra weight literally about killed me. I was out hunting and my body put too much weight on way to quick. I think there is reasonable doses that can prolong life, but I think misuse can certainly lead to an early grave. I was all about getting to 230 until I realized enough was enough. I'm happy where I am and can still get around pretty good for my age and health. I don't think AAS will flat out kill you, but I think it can be a major factor in many early deaths. To me, the list you provided is proof enough of that. To others, they'll say it isn't. I am set on longevity nowadays over being the biggest baddest guy around. It used to be the other way around. Even the guys I train that compete, I always make sure they know the risks.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT1982 View Post
    Absolutely! I don't think you'll catch flack because if we're true to ourselves, we know the risks. I remember going from 180 to 205 in a 6 week span. I won't say what I did, but that extra weight literally about killed me. I was out hunting and my body put too much weight on way to quick. I think there is reasonable doses that can prolong life, but I think misuse can certainly lead to an early grave. I was all about getting to 230 until I realized enough was enough. I'm happy where I am and can still get around pretty good for my age and health. I don't think AAS will flat out kill you, but I think it can be a major factor in many early deaths. To me, the list you provided is proof enough of that. To others, they'll say it isn't. I am set on longevity nowadays over being the biggest baddest guy around. It used to be the other way around. Even the guys I train that compete, I always make sure they know the risks.
    My blood pressure is out of hand but I have ate, worked and lived like hell. I know it doesn't help that I am on a heavy cycl and eating ephedrine like m &m's but I will pay the cost. Hope my kids are grown by then. It sure is fun though. Quality of life has to mean something.

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    Just a thought.... look at Schwarzenegger... he must have had amazing genes. He just keeps on ticking away, stays fit too!

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    Just being on a hypercaloric diet has been linked to shaving of 10 years of your life span, but as with all this shit, conclusive evidence is very hard to get.

    I think the amount of AAS, the amount of mass, neglecting stuff like high BP or other sides (and this is important), and very low BF or lots of contest preps will eat away at you.
    But of all these factors I think amount of AAS and amount of mass are probably the least important as killers.
    Letting high BP slide f.ex, even on a small dose of AAS, is IMO worse than having normal BP on 3x as much gear.
    And high BP takes out kidneys and heart. Hmmm.
    Take diuretics, super low BF, and thicker blood due to high hematocrit and contest keep on top, and heart and kidneys take additional bearings.

    Also, cycling with very high BF means more atherosclerosis IMO.
    With low BF there isn't necessarily much of an increase in atherosclerosis IMO.

    Just my thoughts.

    Be smart, use low doses, use supplements, use BP meds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    My blood pressure is out of hand but I have ate, worked and lived like hell. I know it doesn't help that I am on a heavy cycl and eating ephedrine like m &m's but I will pay the cost. Hope my kids are grown by then. It sure is fun though. Quality of life has to mean something.
    Your blood pressure could be fixed if you took BP meds.

    Its fucked up. If you have a heart attack or stroke tomorrow its going to be attributed to steroid usage, but the real problem is not the steroids but the uncontrolled BP, which you refuse to treat. And yes, ephedrine, which is not a bodybuilding drug will be completely disregarded while probably is, at least as responsible, for rising your BP as the steroids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Mike Matarazzo: Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1992 to 2001. Four-time top 5 finisher at the Night of Champions. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 47.
    Dan Puckett: 1st place 2006 NPC Collegiate National Heavyweight. Died from heart failure in 2007, age 22.
    Scott Klein: Four-time NPC Heavyweight competitor (1995 and 1997), two-time NPC super-heavyweight competitor (1998 and 2000). Died from kidney failure in 2003, age 30.
    Robert Benavente: Competed in multiple NPC shows from 1994 (teen division) to 2003 (1st place in Southern States). Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Trevor Smith: Bodybuilding writer and coach. Never competed, but weighed over 400 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Andreas Munzer: 13 top-five placings from 1986-96. Considered a "pioneer" in the use of diuretics for a super-peeled look. Died from multiple organ failure in 1996, age 32.
    Mohammed Benaziza: Seven total Grand Prix wins in 1990 and 1992, 1st place at the 1990 Night of Champions (beating Dorian Yates), two top 5 Mr. Olympia showings (1989 and 1992). Died from heart failure hours after winning the Grand Prix Holland show in 1992, age 33.
    Daniele Seccarecci: IFBB competitor from 2007 to 2013. 2010 Guinness World Record Holder for "heaviest competitive bodybuilder" at 297 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 33.
    Luke Wood: IFBB competitor from 2001 to 2008, often breaking into the top 10. Died from complications following a kidney transplant in 2011, age 35.
    Chris Janusz: Amateur competitor, nutrition coach, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2009, age 37.
    Art Atwood: Consistent top 10 finisher in IFBB shows from 2002 to 2004, including 1st at the 2002 Toronto Pro. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 37.
    Mat Duvall: Four-time top 3 finisher in NPC Super-heavyweight division (1999, 2001, 2002, 1st in 2003). Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 40.
    Ed Van Amsterdam: European champion in the mid-1990s, frequent top 10 IFBB finisher in 2002 and 2003. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 40.
    Fannie Barrios: Two-time Jan Tana winner (2001, 2002). Three top 8 placings at Ms. Olympia (3rd place in 2002). Died from a stroke in 2005, age 41.
    Charles Durr: Six top 5 NPC and IFBB finishes from 1988 to 1999. Competed in the 2004 IFBB North American Championships. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 44.
    Anthony D'Arezzo: Three-time top 10 NPC Heavyweight (1993, 1994, 1995). 1st at NPC New England in 1997. Died from a heart attack the night before a contest in 2006, age 44.
    Greg Kovacs: Competed in several IFBB shows from 1997 to 2005. Known in the industry as one of the largest off-season bodybuilders, regularly weighing over 400 pounds. Died from heart failure in 2013, age 44.
    Ron Teufel: 1978 IFBB Mr. USA. Runner-up to Samir Bannout at 1979 World Amateurs. Top 10 IFBB competitor in 1981 and 1982. Died from liver failure in 2002, age 45.
    Hans Hopstaken: NPC Masters competitor in 1998 and 1999. IFBB competitor in 2000 and 2001, including two top 5 placings at the Masters Olympia. Died from heart failure in 2002, age 45.
    Frank Hillebrand: Light-heavyweight champion (1987, 1989), several top 10 IFBB finishes from 1990 to 1993. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 45.
    Alex Azarian: NPC competitor from 2002 to 2009, including a total of five 1st place wins. Training, nutrition, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2015, age 45.
    Ray Mentzer: IFBB competitor from 1979 to 1982 including 1st place 1978 Mr. USA, and several top 3 placings. Died from kidney failure in 2001, age 47.
    Nasser El Sonbaty: Frequent top 8 IFBB competitor from 1990 to 1992, consistent top 4 finisher in shows from 1993 to 1998, including 2nd at the 1997 Mr. Olympia and 3rd at the 1995 and 1998 Olympias. Died from complications from heart and kidney failure in 2014, age 47.
    Don Ross: Amateur competitor from 1965 to 1972, pro bodybuilder from 1973 to 1980 with 10 top 5 placings. Died from a heart attack in 1995, age 49.
    Mike Mentzer: Consistent top 3 IFBB pro from 1975 to 1979, including 2nd in the 1976 and 1977 Mr. Universe, 1st place 1976 Mr. America, and 1st place 1979 heavyweight Mr. Olympia (lost the Overall to Frank Zane). First pro bodybuilder to be awarded a perfect score in a contest. Died from heart complications in 2001, age 49.
    Don Youngblood: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 1994 to 2002. 2nd place at the 2001 Masters Olympia and winning 1st in the 2002 Masters Olympia. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 49.
    Stoil Stoilov: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 2005 to 2014. Died in 2014 one week after placing 2nd at a National show, age 49.
    Terri Harris: Frequent top 5 finisher in NPC and IFBB shows from 2002 to 2012, including several 1st place wins in 2011 and 2012. Died from a heart attack two days after a contest in 2013, age 50.
    Ed Kawak: 5-time Mr. Universe (1982-1985, 1993). IFBB competitor in 1996 and 1999. Died from a heart attack in 2006, age 51.
    Vince Comerford: Amateur competitor from 1984 to 1986. 1st place Middleweight at 1987 NPC Nationals (lost the Overall to Shawn Ray). IFBB competitor in 1989 and 1990. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 52.
    Greg DeFerro: 1979 IFBB Mr. International, five top 4 placing in IFBB shows from 1981-1984, including 2nd to Lee Haney at the '83 Night of Champions. Died from heart disease in 2007, age 53.

    But wait theres more....

    Near death cases:

    Tom Prince: NPC competitor from 1995 to 1997, including 1st place at the 1997 Nationals. IFBB competitor from 1999 to 2002. Suffered kidney failure during contest prep in 2003, age 34. Retired in 2004, eventually received a kidney transplant in 2012.
    Don Long: NPC Light-heavyweight (1992) and Heavyweight (1993 to 1995). Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1996 to 1999. Suffered kidney failure in 1999, age 34. Received a kidney transplant in 2002, which failed in 2003. Competed in several IFBB shows from 2006-2009. Received another kidney transplant in 2011.
    Flex Wheeler: NPC competitor from 1989 to 1992. One of the best IFBB pros from 1993 to 2000 with a total of 17 first place wins. He made 2nd place at the Mr. Olympia three times ('93, '98, '99) and two-time top 4 at the Olympia ('96 and '00). Suffered kidney failure and "officially" retired in 2000, age 35. Competed twice more, 7th place at the '02 Mr. Olympia (supposedly drug-free) and 3rd at the '03 Ironman. Received a kidney transplant in 2003.
    Orville Burke: NPC Heavyweight in 1996 and 1997 and Super-heavyweight in 1998. Frequent IFBB top 10 competitor from 1999 to 2002, including 1st at the 2001 Night of Champions and 1st at the '01 Toronto Pro. Two-time top 10 at the Mr. Olympia. Fell into a six-week coma after complications during surgery in 2002, age 39.
    Mike Morris: NPC competitor from 1990 to 1997. IFBB pro from 2001 to 2005. Retired in 2005 after developing signs of kidney problems, age 35.

    These are just the famous ones and not all of them by a damn sight.
    Yes, this shit can kill you and quick. Notice the trend heart/kidney
    How much of this was due to uncontrolled blood pressure, painkiller drugs and recreational drugs???

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    If you dont want to watch it all, fast forward to 20:47:



  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Your blood pressure could be fixed if you took BP meds.

    Its fucked up. If you have a heart attack or stroke tomorrow its going to be attributed to steroid usage, but the real problem is not the steroids but the uncontrolled BP, which you refuse to treat. And yes, ephedrine, which is not a bodybuilding drug will be completely disregarded while probably is, at least as responsible, for rising your BP as the steroids.
    How many people that start taking bp meds,at 30 die at 60?

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    I have a brother that never touched gear and has a bp same as mine. Two years older, he also never ate the amounts of shit food I did. Its partly genetic. Like I said before, we are different people. When I die it will not be attributed to steroids , my family will gather around and say "he was a crazy ass guy", when I die.

    I do not like doctors fluxuating opinions or the idea of blood pressure medications especially at a young age.
    I can go to the doctor and get any medication I wish if I just find the right dumbass doctor. Im not eating that shit until its necessary. The end.

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