Low sides cycle: Primobolan + HCG as base

[NACH3]

diet and training are not going to be a problem. they are my strong points and would rather talk about the test base of my cycle.

how can a dose of HCG that raises my test to normal levels raise the E2 to out of range? i am not trying to max out test levels. just enough to combat the suppression.

Simple... it's a suppressive so it converts to estrogen(aromatization)!!!

[ghettoboyd]

op just do it and keep a log like kelkel said so we all can learn through your experiences...your not the first one to try to reinvent the wheel so give it a go with a detailed log...

[Fush]

Simple... it's a suppressive so it converts to estrogen(aromatization)!!!

HCG may or may not desensitize depending on dosing and duration. I've never read anything about HCG being suppressive. Androgens are suppresive. Exogenous test is supressive.

HCG mimicks LH, LH signals the testicles to produce more testosterone . test aromatizes to E2. normal test levels aromatizes to normal E2 levels. what did i miss here?

thanks.

[Fush]

op just do it and keep a log like kelkel said so we all can learn through your experiences...your not the first one to try to reinvent the wheel so give it a go with a detailed log...

not trying to reinvent anything. still going with the basic - having some form of test as counter to suppression, stacked with a fairly high anabolic to promote gains. PCT after. solid diet and training.

if HCG as base is getting most veterans worried, why do i not get any feedback on just doing TRT test amounts (sub 150mg) with the primo.

i am not interested in doing high levels of test for personal reason. i prefer slow steady little gains over the long run and keep most of it.

[kelkel]

if HCG as base is getting most veterans worried, why do i not get any feedback on just doing TRT test amounts (sub 150mg) with the primo. .

I don't see an issue doing that. It's quite a common application with Tren .

[Fush]

I don't see an issue doing that. It's quite a common application with Tren.

Thanks. Read antominis tren log and it makes sense to use TRT as test base with an effective dose of tren. Tren is one hell of a drug. I'm not messing with something that strong.

If i do the same, it will be something like:

1-14 Test E - 65mg every 3.5 days
or
1-14 Test Prop - 35mg EoD

1-14 Primo - 400mg every 3.5 days
1-14 HCG - 250iu every 3.5 days

PCT:
16-20 nolva 40-20-20-20
16-20 clomid 100-50-50-50

Does this look reasonable now?

[Fush]

I don't see an issue doing that. It's quite a common application with Tren.

read atominis tren log and it makes sense to use TRT dose Test + Tren. Tren is one hell of a drug. I'm not messing with that. Still staying with primo and some test. no kickstart, nothing fancy.


The cycle could go like this:

1-14 Test Prop 35mg EoD
or
1-14 Test E 62.5mg every 3.5 days

1-14 Primo 400mg every 3.5 days
1-14 HCG 250iu every 3.5 days

PCT
16-20 nolva 40-20-20-20
16-20 clomid 100-50-50-50

Does this look reasonable? No comment please on bumping test to 250mg+. Just TRT level so i stay normal. I will have AI on hand for emergency but don't think the aromatizing dosages call for an in-cycle AI dosing.

[DocToxin8]

read atominis tren log and it makes sense to use TRT dose Test + Tren. Tren is one hell of a drug. I'm not messing with that. Still staying with primo and some test. no kickstart, nothing fancy.


The cycle could go like this:

1-14 Test Prop 35mg EoD
or
1-14 Test E 62.5mg every 3.5 days

1-14 Primo 400mg every 3.5 days
1-14 HCG 250iu every 3.5 days

PCT
16-20 nolva 40-20-20-20
16-20 clomid 100-50-50-50

Does this look reasonable? No comment please on bumping test to 250mg+. Just TRT level so i stay normal. I will have AI on hand for emergency but don't think the aromatizing dosages call for an in-cycle AI dosing.

This should work fine,
but as many have said, the cycle won't give any dramatic results.
But if you're dead set in it, do it and log it here,
so we all got some more experience.

Just using hcg as a test booster, I've tried that with DBOL and it didn't work,
I felt awful. But my nuts are pretty small, not sure if that matters as my endo said it really shouldn't, but perhaps more that I'm so used to high circulating T levels that when they get low, I notice it even more than the average Joe.

I see there's no point arguing with you that your first cycle usually is the best,
and you should take advantage of that and rather use a better builder.
No matter, it's your choice.

Primo plus low dose test (TRT) will at least not do anything negative except the ever lasting problem of recovery of the HPTA afterwards,
but I understand you allready use hcg as TRT so then you don't even need PCT (if that is the case). Otherwise remember that each cycle brings a risk to your pituitary, you're never guaranteed full LH&FSH signaling to return as good.

Anyway, log it. It will be interesting.

[Fush]

This should work fine,
but as many have said, the cycle won't give any dramatic results.
But if you're dead set in it, do it and log it here,
so we all got some more experience.

Just using hcg as a test booster, I've tried that with DBOL and it didn't work,
I felt awful. But my nuts are pretty small, not sure if that matters as my endo said it really shouldn't, but perhaps more that I'm so used to high circulating T levels that when they get low, I notice it even more than the average Joe.

I see there's no point arguing with you that your first cycle usually is the best,
and you should take advantage of that and rather use a better builder.
No matter, it's your choice.

Primo plus low dose test (TRT) will at least not do anything negative except the ever lasting problem of recovery of the HPTA afterwards,
but I understand you allready use hcg as TRT so then you don't even need PCT (if that is the case). Otherwise remember that each cycle brings a risk to your pituitary, you're never guaranteed full LH&FSH signaling to return as good.

Anyway, log it. It will be interesting.

thank you.

just to be clear, i logged the HCG as TRT and test dosages data from other peoples experience. i'm new to AAS use. this is my first cycle.

i'm very much aware of the not-dramatic results. i'm also balancing the risk to reward of pituitary recovery over 10-15lbs of gain, if i even get close to that in a span of 14 weeks.

i'm not in a hurry to start his AAS cycle. i started reading on this more than a year ago and i'm still not committing to anything.

[kelkel]

read atominis tren log and it makes sense to use TRT dose Test + Tren. Tren is one hell of a drug. I'm not messing with that. Still staying with primo and some test. no kickstart, nothing fancy.


The cycle could go like this:

1-14 Test Prop 35mg EoD
or
1-14 Test E 62.5mg every 3.5 days

1-14 Primo 400mg every 3.5 days
1-14 HCG 250iu every 3.5 days

PCT
16-20 nolva 40-20-20-20
16-20 clomid 100-50-50-50

Does this look reasonable? No comment please on bumping test to 250mg+. Just TRT level so i stay normal. I will have AI on hand for emergency but don't think the aromatizing dosages call for an in-cycle AI dosing.

Sure, it's reasonable. I agree with Doc as well. I'm in favor of test so I have no issues with you bumping it up. But I will add that at that dose it's extremely likely you'll need a low dose AI.

[Fush]

Sure, it's reasonable. I agree with Doc as well. I'm in favor of test so I have no issues with you bumping it up. But I will add that at that dose it's extremely likely you'll need a low dose AI.

just making it clear. if i run the 14-week cycle like this, i would still need arimidex at .25mg every other day?

1-14 Test E 62.5mg every 3.5 days
1-14 Primo 400mg every 3.5 days
1-14 HCG 250iu every 3.5 days

PCT
16-20 nolva 40-20-20-20
16-20 clomid 100-50-50-50

thanks.

[kelkel]

No, not EOD. But most guys on a dose that high will at least need .25 on the day of each injection. This will help cover the peak of the T injection as your dex has a half life of just under 50 hrs. Very, very few guys on TRT at 200 mgs per week can go without some adex. I'd suggest the dose I mentioned and just pull some BW at 4 weeks and titrate as needed.

Wait, just realized you removed the prop from the above equation. At 125 per week you very well may be able to run without the AI. Again, just check BW in 4 weeks and evaluate.

[Fush]

No, not EOD. But most guys on a dose that high will at least need .25 on the day of each injection. This will help cover the peak of the T injection as your dex has a half life of just under 50 hrs. Very, very few guys on TRT at 200 mgs per week can go without some adex. I'd suggest the dose I mentioned and just pull some BW at 4 weeks and titrate as needed.

Wait, just realized you removed the prop from the above equation. At 125 per week you very well may be able to run without the AI. Again, just check BW in 4 weeks and evaluate.

i had the test prop option there for shorter wait time before PCT then i realized that primo enanthate levels are still high anyway so might as well go enanthate ester for both.

i though you suggested the AI on cycle even with only 125mg/week Test E because of the extra Test coming from 500iu/week HCG .

thanks.

[Chicagotarsier]

First cycle should be a long ester testosterone only.

15 pound gain may occur, but it will consist of mostly water. After PCT you may see a gain of 2-5lb of LBM.

Wont hit 15 lbs even with water. Primo has an almost non-existent aromization point.

[Fush]

Wont hit 15 lbs even with water. Primo has an almost non-existent aromization point.

whoa.. primo carries an anabolic rating of 88. 800mg primo is about the anabolic equivalant of 700mg of test.

this is a 14 week cycle with a caloric excess diet focused on maintaining a high protein macro.

you've done a primo cycle before to come to this conclusion?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

whoa.. primo carries an anabolic rating of 88. 800mg primo is about the anabolic equivalant of 700mg of test.

this is a 14 week cycle with a caloric excess diet focused on maintaining a high protein macro.

you've done a primo cycle before to come to this conclusion?

You've been told by countless people that you won't get 15lbs of muscle with your cycle.

Tren is 5 times stronger than test yet I can't gain much weight with it.
Anabolic and androgenic ratings are not a black and white thing.

[hammerheart]

Anabolic /androgenic ratios are obtained from in vitro and animal models, they are purely indicative.

Actual experience from the vets is what you should use as a reference.

[Fush]

only one way to find out how much gains there really is. i will not be disappointed if i dont gain 10lb+, but i i will make sure that my diet, program and recovery are not to be blamed.

il return the favor for all those who shared their expertise. i will log my progress. BW before, mid and post PCT.

thanks.

[kelkel]

i though you suggested the AI on cycle even with only 125mg/week Test E because of the extra Test coming from 500iu/week HCG .

thanks.

It all comes down to BW. My guess is you'll need a small amount.

[kelkel]

il return the favor for all those who shared their expertise. i will log my progress. BW before, mid and post PCT.

thanks.

Awesome.

[NACH3]

only one way to find out how much gains there really is. i will not be disappointed if i dont gain 10lb+, but i i will make sure that my diet, program and recovery are not to be blamed.

il return the favor for all those who shared their expertise. i will log my progress. BW before, mid and post PCT.

thanks.

I ran test/primo/var a while back... though I prefer 16+ wks yuh should be fine with the time table your doing! My results were basically that of a recomp! I ran test at 400 primo at 800mgs/wkly and var backloaded for 8-10wks(to finish as strong as I could) @ 60-80mgs/day(UGL)

I had great results just not a lot of 'new muscle tissue' not that I didn't gain any but my test was higher as was using an oral(which could've been partly why I gained what I did) although I believe it was the combination of everything imho... I just wanted to share my experience as I have ran primo 2x

Edit.... good job on getting your pre/mid/post cycle BW done... plus there's no guessing when it's in black & white