First Cycle Cutting

[Arcânn]

I know I'm most likely going to get crucified for asking this, but if anyone can set me on the right path, it's you guys. It's mostly thanks to people here that I made the better decision to hold off on cycling in the first place after getting my bloodwork done, even though I've had everything I need for a cycle for at least a couple months now. My cholesterol was the reason I decided to hold off.

I've come to the conclusion over the last couple months that, at least at this point in my life, there's really not much reason for me to gain muscle past my natural potential (my hotheadedness is wearing off), since it's not very sustainable. I'd rather not go through all the yo-yoing since I have no immediate plans for being on TRT and I don't quite have the money yet to spend on using HGH forever (but I understand that there's at least a slight risk of ending up on TRT after even one cycle of doing everything right). Cycling UPWARD just seems pointless without at least TRT or HGH, if not both.

But of course, I'd still like to lean out with the muscle I can gain naturally. The problem is, with natty cutting, it's almost a guarantee that no matter how great your diet and training are, you're going to lose a substantial amount of muscle in the process. Sure, you'll lose more fat than muscle, but it seems hardly worth it to cut and lose muscle just to bulk back up and gain fat again and go through the process 10 times in order to achieve results that could easily be had with one cutting cycle and a natty clean bulk.

Which finally brings me to my question: Is there really anything wrong with a first cycle being a cut? I know I've asked something like this on here before, and the reason I think it was mostly shut down is because the first cycle seems to be where most people make the most gains, and if you have the intention of gaining weight, then it would be kind of a waste to cut with your first cycle. However, I'm no longer coming from the standpoint of eventually cycling to get bigger (although EVENTUALLY I might). It just seems like a giant waste of time and effort to cut naturally and lose a lot of muscle when I can cycle and hold onto most/all of it. For the most part, I've already got my mind made up, like 85%, but you guys opinions have always helped so far, at least as far as greater insight.

Secondary question: In terms of cholesterol, it seems that cycling hurts that a little, but the more I learn, the more it seems that maybe it's the AIs doing more damage than anything, since it's reducing the estrogen that is apparently HELPING your cholesterol. So if my estrogen is elevated during a cycle, is cholesterol really likely to get any worse?

[GearHeaded]

keep in mind, that since Arnolds day most bodybuilders generally ran their cycles WHEN CUTTING and prepping for contests . they didn't run much in the off season, only for contest prep. even today. most responsible pros will run their heavy cycles during contest season only when trying to be lean.

both naturals and enhanced guys can get big. the difference is when cutting, the natty guys lose all their gains, and the enhanced guys can even make gains while cutting..

natural cutting


vs
enhanced cutting



cutting , imo, and from bodybuilding history, IS the most important time to run a cycle. anyone can bulk without drugs, but cutting without drugs will equal muscle loss

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I personally believe it is not worth the risk unless you are trying to get sub 8% bodyfat...
cutting to 12% body fat can easily be done with no drugs...
getting in the 8-12% range is a lot more difficult...
under 8% without muscle loss is pretty much impossible without AAS..


I will note that I am very conservative with drug use compared to many on this forum.

[GearHeaded]

just to add a another perspective here. I think that cutting into single digits and contest shape is a lot more unhealthy for natural guys , then it is for enhanced guys.

lots of people think the natty guys are the healthy ones, and that using AAS is unhealthy . imo, its just the opposite once you get super lean.
the natty guys have all sorts of health problems. their natural production of hormones shut down, their test levels crash, Estrogen shuts down (and cholesterol gets skewed), their thyroid hormones are crashed and metabolism shot, their cortisol levels go through the roof, their nutrient partitioning goes to shit and they can't absorb life sustaining nutrients etc.. this is why they look like aids patients on stage. they are in fact ill, and blood work would show this..

the enhanced guy on the other hand, because of his ability to take exogenous hormones (don't matter if natural hormones are crashed) has a great balance of hormones (and abundance actually) , his cortisol is not only in check but often times blunted because of the drugs he's taking that suppress it, his thyroid and metabolism is clicking along perfectly because he's taking in thyroid med to dial it in exactly to optimal levels, his nutrient partitioning is very good because of the drugs as well helping him uptake all that he's taking in (and he can eat more then the natty and get more essential micro nutrients in, thus fulfilling his nutritional requirements).

natural bodybuilding is far from healthy. and in lots of cases more unhealthy then enhanced bodybuilding.
but, having said that, abusing drugs isn't healthy either. IF health is your main concern, then you need to find a good balance

[Windex]

This is just my opinion to someone with non-competitive or bodybuilding goals in mind (ie they are not a high level competing athlete, bodybuilder, etc). Your post implies you are in the high teens/low 20's bodyfat and want to get to something more aesthetic. Please correct me if I am wrong in that assumption.

I agree with DeadliftDog. My philosophy is that there are so many "tools" for cutting slow and steady - caloric restriction, cardio, macro manipulation, ECA, ECY, etc. Moreover, it's about using each "tool" one at a time. If you use everything all at once then you are already at the ceiling and when there is a roadblock there's nowhere left to go.

Classic Example : Someone starts a cut in a big (ie 500) caloric deficit, then a few weeks later they ramp up cardio before hitting a plateau, then they throw all the carbs out the window, a few weeks later they add in ECA, a few weeks later they want to hop on Clen /T3. Fast-forward a couple of months and John Smith has used every non-AAS tool to cut weight. Few people take a very conservative long term approach.

I think maintaining a lower bodyfat % is harder that getting to a lower bodyfat - so I would rather take longer on the easy part before getting to the hard part. Permanently adjusting your set point down is going against the physiology of your body and then trying to maintain that naturally if you needed AAS to get there in the first place is a steep uphill battle.

Again, just to reiterate my thoughts are gauged towards you describing a reasonable lean look and not the single digit bodyfat type.

[Arcânn]

This is just my opinion to someone with non-competitive or bodybuilding goals in mind (ie they are not a high level competing athlete, bodybuilder, etc). Your post implies you are in the high teens/low 20's bodyfat and want to get to something more aesthetic. Please correct me if I am wrong in that assumption.

I agree with DeadliftDog. My philosophy is that there are so many "tools" for cutting slow and steady - caloric restriction, cardio, macro manipulation, ECA, ECY, etc. Moreover, it's about using each "tool" one at a time. If you use everything all at once then you are already at the ceiling and when there is a roadblock there's nowhere left to go.

Classic Example : Someone starts a cut in a big (ie 500) caloric deficit, then a few weeks later they ramp up cardio before hitting a plateau, then they throw all the carbs out the window, a few weeks later they add in ECA, a few weeks later they want to hop on Clen /T3. Fast-forward a couple of months and John Smith has used every non-AAS tool to cut weight. Few people take a very conservative long term approach.

I think maintaining a lower bodyfat % is harder that getting to a lower bodyfat - so I would rather take longer on the easy part before getting to the hard part. Permanently adjusting your set point down is going against the physiology of your body and then trying to maintain that naturally if you needed AAS to get there in the first place is a steep uphill battle.

Again, just to reiterate my thoughts are gauged towards you describing a reasonable lean look and not the single digit bodyfat type.

Just eyeballing it, I would say that I'm at ~15-16% BF. I can see all the major muscles, including my abs to a somewhat reasonable degree when I flex, but no striations or anything.

Where I'm coming from right now is that I know I can do better than I have natty, in terms of growing more mass, but where my BF% is at the moment, I don't think I need to be as concerned with growing because overtime I'll just put more fat on in addition to muscle so I'm looking to cut to something reasonable, maybe ~10%, so that I can continue to grow and have a little wiggle room for the fat that will inevitably come. But at the same time, I don't necessarily want to become dependent on AAS in order to grow new muscle if I don't have to. I just hate the thought of cutting natty and losing a bunch of muscle.

[GearHeaded]

This is just my opinion to someone with non-competitive or bodybuilding goals in mind (ie they are not a high level competing athlete, bodybuilder, etc). Your post implies you are in the high teens/low 20's bodyfat and want to get to something more aesthetic. Please correct me if I am wrong in that assumption.

I agree with DeadliftDog [ie , you should not cut to reasonable body fat using drugs]

Again, just to reiterate my thoughts are gauged towards you describing a reasonable lean look and not the single digit bodyfat type.

Windex, aren't you (or were you not just recently) cutting to reasonable body fat percentages yourself , but all while using test and tren and a keto diet ?

maybe I mis read one of your posts or confusing you with someone else though.

[Windex]

Just eyeballing it, I would say that I'm at ~15-16% BF. I can see all the major muscles, including my abs to a somewhat reasonable degree when I flex, but no striations or anything.

Where I'm coming from right now is that I know I can do better than I have natty, in terms of growing more mass, but where my BF% is at the moment, I don't think I need to be as concerned with growing because overtime I'll just put more fat on in addition to muscle so I'm looking to cut to something reasonable, maybe ~10%, so that I can continue to grow and have a little wiggle room for the fat that will inevitably come. But at the same time, I don't necessarily want to become dependent on AAS in order to grow new muscle if I don't have to. I just hate the thought of cutting natty and losing a bunch of muscle.

I understand where you are coming from as it's a common fear in the community but have you ever tried to cut over a 6, 8, 10, or 12 month period and only use each tool when you get to a roadblock ? If not then you haven't really give your body or yourself a fair chance.

I don't believe that cutting automatically translates to muscle loss, speaking from personal experience and from the science. Some amount of muscle loss is inevitable but it won't be the majority of weight loss when done properly.

Before going to deep down the rabbit hole you may as well post up a day of eating so we can atleast help you there regardless of the decision you make.

[Windex]

Windex, aren't you (or were you not just recently) cutting to reasonable body fat percentages yourself , but all while using test and tren and a keto diet ?

maybe I mis read one of your posts or confusing you with someone else though.

In terms of Test I am on TRT and don't adjust it whether or not I use other compounds.

I am not using Tren currently but it's the only compound I use outside of TRT/HGH/Test Suspension. Have tried other compounds but only had bad experiences. I don't really do conventional cycling.

I have recently given Keto another chance after learning I did it very incorrectly the first time around.

In a sense I am "cutting" but I take a more recomp approach versus traditional cut and bulk as that's what I have the most success with, typically +\- a few hundred calories over or under my TDEE.

[Arcânn]

I understand where you are coming from as it's a common fear in the community but have you ever tried to cut over a 6, 8, 10, or 12 month period and only use each tool when you get to a roadblock ? If not then you haven't really give your body or yourself a fair chance.

I don't believe that cutting automatically translates to muscle loss, speaking from personal experience and from the science. Some amount of muscle loss is inevitable but it won't be the majority of weight loss when done properly.

Before going to deep down the rabbit hole you may as well post up a day of eating so we can atleast help you there regardless of the decision you make.

I'll post images of a sample diet or two of what I'm doing now and what I plan to do in a cut.

I'm currently maintaining 205-206 pounds at ~3400 calories/day. (I'm also 6'2" and 28 years old, just in case that's relevant). Although I have the macros tracked, I know nutrient timing is a big thing for some, but I work 12+ hour night shifts and work more nights than I'm off most of the time, and what I do at work varies from day to day so I pretty much get my meals in just whenever I get the opportunity, although on days off I'm sure I could do better.

These are a couple samples from what I'm currently doing to maintain until I choose a course of action.
BTW, it's set up a little weird since it's just meant for me to understand. All of the foods have four numbers beside them that go in the order of:
"number of servings: grams of protein - grams of fat - grams of carbs". And then the totals for the day at the bottom.
I didn't take any number of meals into consideration due to the somewhat unpredictable nature of my job from day to day, but typically I eat everything in 4-5 meals. So all the numbers are basically just totals for the day, not totals for any one meal.


Here are some samples of a cut at 3000 calories

[Windex]

I'll post images of a sample diet or two of what I'm doing now and what I plan to do in a cut.

I'm currently maintaining 205-206 pounds at ~3400 calories/day. (I'm also 6'2" and 28 years old, just in case that's relevant). Although I have the macros tracked, I know nutrient timing is a big thing for some, but I work 12+ hour night shifts and work more nights than I'm off most of the time, and what I do at work varies from day to day so I pretty much get my meals in just whenever I get the opportunity, although on days off I'm sure I could do better.

These are a couple samples from what I'm currently doing to maintain until I choose a course of action.
BTW, it's set up a little weird since it's just meant for me to understand. All of the foods have four numbers beside them that go in the order of:
"number of servings: grams of protein - grams of fat - grams of carbs". And then the totals for the day at the bottom.
I didn't take any number of meals into consideration due to the somewhat unpredictable nature of my job from day to day, but typically I eat everything in 4-5 meals. So all the numbers are basically just totals for the day, not totals for any one meal.


Here are some samples of a cut at 3000 calories

- Special K is very poor and most "protein enriched" foods that normally don't have protein suck. The protein included is soy protein which is junk. It's also high in sugar - the combination of milk+cereal you have has more sugar than soda.

- Aside from the spaghetti in Meal 3, all of your carbs are sugar in that meal plan.

- Bread is a heavily processed carbs source - outside of P28 or Ezekiel bread its far from an optimal choice

- It looks like roughly 10-12% of your calories are coming from fluids and/or filler between the milk, juice, and sauces. Normally during a cut people struggle with satiety since they are in a caloric deficit, so empty calories like fluids and sauces that don't add to the feeling of being full make it that much harder.

- If you mean pre-sliced Kraft cheese for "American" cheese then that should be replaced by real cheese. Those Kraft singles are a few ingredients away from being plastic.

- Each meal plan only has 2 out of 3 types of fats.

- Not sure what type of yogurt you are using (Meal Plan 1) but you be cautious of the carb/sugar content. Many yogurts (even Greek) have the same amount of sugar as a serving of soda.

- Protein is somewhat on the low side at ~200g and it looks like in some meal plans a decent chunk of that protein is coming from incomplete sources (For example in Meal Plan 1 62g of 209g Protein is from incomplete sources (30%)

- 4 Servings of vegetables is excellent, just want to try and diversify the types of vegetables as best as you can.

Basically the overall theme is some of your food choices are suboptimal and I think Protein could be on the low side. If you upgrade your food choices and add in more protein while reducing carbs/fats I think you would see a big improvement. Also, I would be mindful of your sugar intake and find a way to track how you do with that much sugar per day. I find sugar to be black and white for a lot of people and don't think it deserves to be demonized to the degree that it is as it pertains to bodybuilding nutrition.

[GearHeaded]

have you ever tried to cut over a 12 month period

ugh that sounds like self punishment to me, or someone with a bad relationship to food and their body image..

anyhow, Arcann, I'm going to play the other side or the angel/devil on the other side of your shoulder.

so rather then spending 12 months out of your life trying to cut, track macros, worry about everything you eat, and become an obsessive compulsive wack job over food.. just to get a bit leaner. I'd take a much faster and optimal route and just get jacked and ripped as you can in a short 12 weeks using the tools that are out there to make this happen (ie, optimized nutrition, optimized training, optimized recovery, and optimized AAS use).

and NO I'm in no way advocating the fast food world "I want it now" generation. 12 weeks of optimized everything and busting ass is far from 'fast food' get it now mentality.

- 12 weeks of doing everything optimized plus AAS use, can probably yield a substantial loss in body fat, on top of gaining lean muscle.

- now 12 MONTHS of straight dieting, I'm not sure what exactly that may lead to in regards to your physique, but probably not a whole lot of lean muscle added and probably not a whole lot of friends or family there at the end even wanting to be around your mentally F'd up mind anymore

[GearHeaded]

a veteran memer on here , 405 replied in another thread on a totally different topic all together. but I think his post is interesting in regards to this thread as well

360 mg test only per week for 12 weeks...

IMO it sounds like your dosage was a bit low and your expectations might have been a bit high.

For me, 500 per week does the trick. I don't get a lot bigger, but I can lean out better on higher cals, i get really good pumps in the gym, strength goes up about 20% ish..

I remember reading somewhere on here a few yrs ago that gear is most effective visually on a cut. That's the only time I cycle.

12 weeks isn't a long time to gain muscle, esp at 360mg per week and your body is used to the drug anyways since you're on TRT.

Next time, try it when u cut and run 500mg and I bet u see a difference.

[Arcânn]

I've been operating on the knowledge that 1+ grams of protein per pound of weight was about as much as one needs, especially for my goals, since the stage is not in my future., which is why, at least at maintenance, I keep it at the numbers it's at and slightly lower it as I go down. A little more couldn't hurt I suppose but I'm trying not to overdo it there.

Could you shed a little light on complete/incomplete proteins and the types of fats? I have an idea about the proteins (some are more bioavailable than others), but not much more than that.

In hindsight, my carbs could use a little work, although I like to think I still eat better than the average American "mere mortal" haha. I know I can change some of my food sources around to make it look a little better, but eventually, I'll have my sanity to think about. But I agree, I still have a bit of work to do on the food choices.

I'm one of those people who has the opposite struggle of a lot of guys on here having a hard time with cutting...I have a hard time fitting enough food in my stomach. I've gotten to the point where I pretty much hate food but eat it anyway. Now down below 3000 I might end up changing my tune, but it's been a very long time since I've consistently had a calorie count that low but we'll see what happens.

I do have to agree, 12 months seems like a LONG cut. I'm not sure how my sanity would hold up after even 4 months. But different people will have different approaches. I don't see a long cut being something that suits me very well.

I really appreciate the responses. They've all been very helpful so far.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I do have to agree, 12 months seems like a LONG cut. I'm not sure how my sanity would hold up after even 4 months.

you are 205lbs and 15% bodyfat
to get to 193 and 10% bodyfat you need to...
lose 11.5lbs of fat and .6lbs of muscle.

you can easily lose 1lb of fat a week and be at your goal in 12 weeks.
clean up your diet.

[GearHeaded]

in order to lose 11.5 pounds of fat. he would end up going way below the 193 pounds.. before the fat even starts coming off he would probably lose a good 10 pounds of water weight (including 'good' water weight, ie, inter cellular water in muscle tissue), then when he goes deep into his calorie deficit he will begin losing a lot of his glycogen stores from muscle tissue. theres another 5 pounds easily.

being very forgiving here, he would probably end up weighing 178 pounds to achieve the 10% body fat goal, not 193. but in reality, with no drugs, I'm guessing he may even drop into the upper 160s to lose that much body fat naturally.

the human body just doesn't work with the 'pretty math' equations we often times like to lay out..

guarantee you that there are 225 pound natural bodybuilders that go to prep for their first show and they think they are going to end up weighing about 200 pounds on stage at 5% body fat... but when they actually get to the 5% body fat they need to get to in order to look stage ready they end up weighing 145 pounds on stage. big difference (I can name a very popular guy a lot of you guys prob know where this exact thing happened when he prepped for his first natty show)

[Windex]

I've been operating on the knowledge that 1+ grams of protein per pound of weight was about as much as one needs, especially for my goals, since the stage is not in my future., which is why, at least at maintenance, I keep it at the numbers it's at and slightly lower it as I go down. A little more couldn't hurt I suppose but I'm trying not to overdo it there.

Could you shed a little light on complete/incomplete proteins and the types of fats? I have an idea about the proteins (some are more bioavailable than others), but not much more than that.

In hindsight, my carbs could use a little work, although I like to think I still eat better than the average American "mere mortal" haha. I know I can change some of my food sources around to make it look a little better, but eventually, I'll have my sanity to think about. But I agree, I still have a bit of work to do on the food choices.

I'm one of those people who has the opposite struggle of a lot of guys on here having a hard time with cutting...I have a hard time fitting enough food in my stomach. I've gotten to the point where I pretty much hate food but eat it anyway. Now down below 3000 I might end up changing my tune, but it's been a very long time since I've consistently had a calorie count that low but we'll see what happens.

I do have to agree, 12 months seems like a LONG cut. I'm not sure how my sanity would hold up after even 4 months. But different people will have different approaches. I don't see a long cut being something that suits me very well.

I really appreciate the responses. They've all been very helpful so far.

Just to clarify I wasn't implying you need to go cut for 12 months which is why I provided other references of time like 6 months, and that was just over-reaching. Moreso the point I was trying to make was giving yourself a fair chance and giving 101%. As well, cutting does not have to always be a caloric deficit - you could be at maintenance and manipulate cardio/training and still lose weight. If the net TDEE is negative it will translate into weight loss.

My thoughts on the low protein was just to add another 20-25g, basically an extra serving of meat. This just ties back to satiety and cutting is often a matter of compliance. I don't find fruit very filling and protein is the reverse. However, if you feel full on fruit more power to you that's fantastic. If you are set on juice an easy way to sneak your micronutrients in would be blending the two together. For instance, 4oz of Mango Juice with 8-10oz of Spinach, ice water, and blend it together in a Ninja or Magic Bullet or whatever you have. 30 seconds to make, 30 seconds to wash down.

If you hate food why not try to be more creative or try new food choices ? The recipe section has a bunch of good ideas. What will your strategy be when it comes time to eat above maintenance if you are unhappy eating now.

If you are concerned about sanity in 4 months, keep in mind a cycle of 12 weeks + PCT is more than 4 months.

You don't need a perfect diet, but everyone has room for improvement, it's all about compromise. An 8/10 nutrition program that you can follow 100% of the time will always beat a 10/10 nutrition program that you can only follow 80% of the time.

Incomplete proteins are what you find in grains (bread, pasta, etc), legumes (lentils, beans, chickpeas, etc), nuts/nut butters, and so forth. The complete proteins are those such as meat, dairy, eggs. The difference is the incomplete proteins are missing amino acids.

Given you work 12+ hour shifts you will want to create a meal prep strategy if you have not already unless you intend to fast during those shifts.

[GearHeaded]

Incomplete proteins are what you find in grains (bread, pasta, etc), legumes (lentils, beans, chickpeas, etc), nuts/nut butters, and so forth. The complete proteins are those such as meat, dairy, eggs. The difference is the incomplete proteins are missing amino acids.

This a good point and I'm just going to emphasize it . OP, you shouldn't even be counting the incomplete sources of protein in your diet as protein. they shouldn't count towards your macros imo. All the diets I do for clients are structured this way. IF the client eats black beans, which contain say 8g of incomplete proteins, then those 8g will not count towards the macro goal for the day of say 200g of protein (that 200 has to all come from complete sources like animal products), only the carbs sources of the black beans count towards the carb macros for the day.

[Kay kay]

I think some of these diet reccomendations are a bit over the top in a ocd kind of way. I mean how can you suggest to someone that there protein is 25g too low? With personal variance in mind that’s simply to small of an amount to tell someone with ANY certainty of what your saying, comes across as nitpicking and giving advice for the sake of it imo.

Your diet could use work but you absolutely do not need to make sure every gram of carbs and fats come from optimal sources and that all protien comes from whole food. These things are ideal and are to be worked towards but are absolutely not necessary. This is something promoted on forums not so much actually practiced by many high level or successful bodybuilders.

I mean sure special k isn’t great, but having 75g of carbs from that a day or switching it to. Better source IS NOT going to be the difference in success or failure! If that makes your diet more palatable go for it, and perhaps when dialing In for a competition then optimize 100%, but don’t get caught up on the small stuff.

[Windex]

I think some of these diet reccomendations are a bit over the top in a ocd kind of way. I mean how can you suggest to someone that there protein is 25g too low? With personal variance in mind that’s simply to small of an amount to tell someone with ANY certainty of what your saying, comes across as nitpicking and giving advice for the sake of it imo.

Your diet could use work but you absolutely do not need to make sure every gram of carbs and fats come from optimal sources and that all protien comes from whole food. These things are ideal and are to be worked towards but are absolutely not necessary. This is something promoted on forums not so much actually practiced by many high level or successful bodybuilders.

I mean sure special k isn’t great, but having 75g of carbs from that a day or switching it to. Better source IS NOT going to be the difference in success or failure! If that makes your diet more palatable go for it, and perhaps when dialing In for a competition then optimize 100%, but don’t get caught up on the small stuff.

The difference in food choices has nothing to do with macronutrients and everything to do with micronutrients. Where's the sufficient potassium in Special K when an athlete is sweating buckets and needs electrolytes beyond sodium?

25g of protein is not nitpicking - eating half a steak versus an apple might be the appetite difference between being full enough to the next meal or being hungry. It was also a suggestion not a demand.

Multiple small changes create one big change. It's also why I stated an 8/10 diet followed 100% is better than a 10/10 diet followed 80%. I also stated there is also compromise.

If you are going to debate someone else's suggestions please be mindful of the full context.

[Kay kay]

I understand the focus on micronutrients, but really I think there are bigger things for him to focus on. I think that the more advanced we get, the more we forget how overwhelming all of our suggestions can be!

I didn’t mean to offend you sorry if it came across that way.

[Kay kay]

Also lots of good information in your post, I just think a lot of people get a little over obsessive about food quality when they don’t even have quantity nailed down yet, that’s all I was getting at. I think you’re a great contributor here so don’t take it personal!

[balance]

I really don’t think the help here has been knit picking at all. I just took a quick look at the listed diet and saw some pretty glaringly not ideal items.

Bacon
Sausage
Special k cereal
Taco shells
hash browns

I will give OP benefit of the doubt on the peanut butter, yogurt, and bread but if these items are not carefully chosen it’s more junk.

FWIW I am similar weight and BF but only 6’ tall and if I followed the above diet I know for a fact it would be very obvious (in a bad way) in under two weeks.

Sorry to come off as being discouraging but your meal choices need serious work. The fact you are here seeking information is a huge indication you are serious so I have little doubt you can achieve your goals. Get a good plan and execute!

[Arcânn]

Sorry if this comes across as a stupid question, but I was thinking about the whole thing with incomplete proteins and it got me wondering....

Would taking BCAAs with meals that have some incomplete proteins (which is almost all of my meals) have any positive effect as far as "completing" those proteins by basically supplementing the meal with those missing amino acids?

[GearHeaded]

for that type of strategy I'd recommend using EAAs , not BCAAs

[Kay kay]

Can you explain why you think bacon is a poor food choice? I have an interesting write up of its benefits when fit into a meal plan properly I’ll show you, but I want to hear your opinions first. Is it because it’s a stereotypical bad food or do you have an actual reason? Again, sausage depending on the meat can be a great part of anyone’s meal plan.

Taco shells etc no they are not ideal but having 20% of your calories a day from things like that, when still fitting your macros, are not going to hurt you. I guess I’m looking at things from a long term quest for national competitor level size point of view, but when you’re eating 5k cals plus a day, if you’re getting good micros from 4K of those cals you’re laughing. If I have to eat 150 cals in taco shells to get down the 900 cals of quality meat and veggies then I think that’s a great meal when looked at from that perspective.

[balance]

Can you explain why you think bacon is a poor food choice? I have an interesting write up of its benefits when fit into a meal plan properly I’ll show you, but I want to hear your opinions first. Is it because it’s a stereotypical bad food or do you have an actual reason? Again, sausage depending on the meat can be a great part of anyone’s meal plan.

Taco shells etc no they are not ideal but having 20% of your calories a day from things like that, when still fitting your macros, are not going to hurt you. I guess I’m looking at things from a long term quest for national competitor level size point of view, but when you’re eating 5k cals plus a day, if you’re getting good micros from 4K of those cals you’re laughing. If I have to eat 150 cals in taco shells to get down the 900 cals of quality meat and veggies then I think that’s a great meal when looked at from that perspective.

Perspective yes!

Not into debating the merits of bacon in YOUR diet. The OP titled the thread First Cycle cutting. He’s listed a diet around 3K calories daily (not keto, otherwise go nuts with yo bacon). I guess I’m wrong to believe taco shells, bacon, sausage, and hash browns should not be consumed daily on a cutting diet.

Sure if YOU are eating these items daily on your 5k calorie daily intake to get cut more power to you. Good luck on your cutting.