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Thread: 6 weeks Kinda disappointed with results from 500mgs of test vs SARMs

  1. #1
    rise_against is offline Junior Member
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    5 weeks Kinda disappointed with results from 500mgs of test vs SARMs

    I'm about 5 weeks into my first test cycle dosed 500mgs/week, training is good and I'm eating clean at maintenance calories. I thought it would be stronger than sarms . My sarm cycle I dosed 30mg of rad140 + 50mg Ostarine per day while cutting in a steep deficit. I'm confident my test is legit, it comes from a reputable lab... 4 weeks into my sarm cycle I was adding 10-15 pounds per week onto my working sets, while dropping 3-5 pounds per week, eventually holding same weight while continuing to get leaner. With this test cycle I'm getting stronger but it's not even to comparable to the sarms. It's like newbie gains, 5 pounds a week on working sets while eating a lot more calories. Surprised by the results so far. A positive is that my sex drive is through the roof on test and I feel good overall. Am growing which is awesome but strength isn't increasing as much as expected. Do I need to be more patient? Or did I get bunk product
    Last edited by rise_against; 03-02-2021 at 07:58 PM.
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    Get labs done and you’ll know

    Not sure about your strategy eating at maintenance either...

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    Don’t expect much on 500 mg. It’s too early though. I don’t see anything until week 8-9. If you were taking short esters, it would kick in a lot faster. I was also disappointed in my first cycle. Had to manage expectations.
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    rise_against is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah View Post
    Get labs done and you’ll know

    Not sure about your strategy eating at maintenance either...
    Wanting to recomp

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    Quote Originally Posted by rise_against View Post
    Wanting to recomp
    I get it but you need some surplus days. You carb cycling at all?
    Recomp on straight test is hard in my opinion. Better to add the muscle, eat the cals and then cut after some solid bulking. That being said, quality recomps are possible.

    Here’s a quality article, hope it helps...

    https://completehumanperformance.com...recomposition/

    Take advantage of the nutrient partitioning with AAS and refeed and calorie cycle

    My .2

    You can also stretch out to 14-16 weeks too if you feel you’re starting to hit a late stride
    Last edited by SampsonandDelilah; 03-02-2021 at 10:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rise_against View Post
    Wanting to recomp
    If you want to weigh 250lbs, you have to eat like you're 250lbs.
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    You could always jump start your cycle with the addition of some SARMs . Maybe not the doses you cycled with before though, those seem a bit on the high end?

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    Can you give some other details like your current body weight and fat percentage? How many cycles have you done? Your macros? Mostly the gains will be contingent on what you are doing in the kitchen my friend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    Don’t expect much on 500 mg. It’s too early though. I don’t see anything until week 8-9. If you were taking short esters, it would kick in a lot faster. I was also disappointed in my first cycle. Had to manage expectations.
    This, to a T.

    5 weeks is not long enough to really notice.

    I was also “disappointed” from my first cycle. Everyone I know made test out to be this fucking Superman drug. Insane strength gains. Harder than Chinese arithmetic erections. Bang anything in sight libido. All which were way over exaggerated.

    I also ate at maintenance calories, maybe a slight deficit. Yeah I looked good, but everything else was minuscule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krb367 View Post
    This, to a T.

    5 weeks is not long enough to really notice.

    I was also “disappointed” from my first cycle. Everyone I know made test out to be this fucking Superman drug. Insane strength gains. Harder than Chinese arithmetic erections. Bang anything in sight libido. All which were way over exaggerated.

    I also ate at maintenance calories, maybe a slight deficit. Yeah I looked good, but everything else was minuscule.
    I think alot of guys think the gear is magic.

    And in reality, it helps. But it doesn't put in the work for you. You still have to work.

    Plus, gear or not, building a body you like takes time. Alot of time. It doesn't happen overnight. Gear or not.

    Your right, it is over hyped a bit.
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  11. #11
    rise_against is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by META99 View Post
    Can you give some other details like your current body weight and fat percentage? How many cycles have you done? Your macros? Mostly the gains will be contingent on what you are doing in the kitchen my friend
    6'2" 230 lbs 15% bf, 2 sarm cycles, don't count macros but eat clean (fruit, veggies, potatoes, meat) at maintenance or slight surplus most days.

  12. #12
    rise_against is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    I think alot of guys think the gear is magic.

    And in reality, it helps. But it doesn't put in the work for you. You still have to work.

    Plus, gear or not, building a body you like takes time. Alot of time. It doesn't happen overnight. Gear or not.

    Your right, it is over hyped a bit.
    I look good and squeezed out all the gains I could natty. I had to take 6 months off from squats and deadlifts due to injury but still haven't hit numbers I was hitting natural, 485 squat, 585 deadlift. I was squatting 500 atg for reps and deadlifting 615 on sarms . Thought that test would at least be comparable to sarms. Not saying I think gear is magic, just comparing test to sarms. Strength gains were WAY bigger on sarms and it's not even close. Compared to natural, I notice I can handle a lot more volume, strength gains isn't impressive.
    Last edited by rise_against; 03-04-2021 at 06:54 PM.

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    rise_against is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krb367 View Post
    This, to a T.

    5 weeks is not long enough to really notice.

    I was also “disappointed” from my first cycle. Everyone I know made test out to be this fucking Superman drug. Insane strength gains. Harder than Chinese arithmetic erections. Bang anything in sight libido. All which were way over exaggerated.

    I also ate at maintenance calories, maybe a slight deficit. Yeah I looked good, but everything else was minuscule.
    I get that a little bit with the libido. It's way fucking higher and the erections are stronger. It's like going through puberty again.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rise_against View Post
    I look good and squeezed out all the gains I could natty. I had to take 6 months off from squats and deadlifts due to injury but still haven't hit numbers I was hitting natural, 485 squat, 585 deadlift. I was squatting 500 atg for reps and deadlifting 615 on sarms. Thought that test would at least be comparable to sarms. Not saying I think gear is magic, just comparing test to sarms. Strength gains were WAY bigger on sarms and it's not even close.
    I've never done sarms . I just recently learned what they were.

    And I've only done one cycle of aas. Same as you 500mg week for twelve weeks.

    I stopped four months ago. But never stopped training.

    I've trained natural all my life except this last cycle.

    And nothing I did couldn't have been done natural. The gear helps. But that's it. It just helps. For me anyway.

    I really wasn't impressed. But it did help me recover faster and need less time between sessions. Which I think was it's biggest help to me. I was able to get in shape faster. But I could have done it without gear.

    I'm not saying this to you, but in general. Lots of people I've seen use gear, really don't know how to train. So they get in there and push to hit lift numbers and stuff. But they don't really condition thier bodies to perform better. They expect the gear to do it.
    And it won't.

    For example you need to lungs to saturate your blood before a good set. Especially when you do multiple sets at heavy weight. Then, there's a nervous system component to strength. You have to train yourself to strain against a heavy load properly. Then, your whole body works in concert. Too many people focus on a few things.

    I'm not overly experienced with gear by any means. But from I've seen, more often than not, the problem with progress is going to be related to training most of the time. And not the gear your using.

    I feel like it serves a guy better to focus on training. Work hard and don't worry about the gear your using. And honestly, very few people ever actually reach thier natural limit.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 03-04-2021 at 07:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong View Post
    If you want to weigh 250lbs, you have to eat like you're 250lbs.
    Yeah I've experimented with large bulks and eating in a large surplus but I just got fat �� lean bulks and maingaining works best for me

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rise_against View Post
    Yeah I've experimented with large bulks and eating in a large surplus but I just got fat �� lean bulks and maingaining works best for me
    Well, brother, with the numbers you've stated as your lifts, and the way you have to train to get those numbers, that's just what bulking is going to mean.

    Are you trying to lose fat and Gain mass at the same time?
    That's nearly impossible without gear. And difficult with it.

    If you're hunting higher lift numbers, your going to have to add overall mass. And some will be fat. Then you'll have to cut that off if you're going for a look. Or just wear it proud if you want to lift monster weight.

    At 6-2 230, it's not going to hurt to put on some weight. Your frame can likely handle it fine. I'm 5-11 240. And lean.

    You've got room to grow. Natty if you want to. With the frame you must have to hit those numbers at 6-2. You could easily walk around 250 fairly lean and very muscular natty. Unless you've got a slender build. Which would really make those lift numbers impressive. But top you out at about 235-240. By the time you hit 40 And lean.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 03-04-2021 at 08:30 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    Well, brother, with the numbers you've stated as your lifts, and the way you have to train to get those numbers, that's just what bulking is going to mean.

    Are you trying to lose fat and Gain mass at the same time?
    That's nearly impossible without gear. And difficult with it.

    If you're hunting higher lift numbers, your going to have to add overall mass. And some will be fat. Then you'll have to cut that off if you're going for a look. Or just wear it proud if you want to lift monster weight.

    At 6-2 230, it's not going to hurt to put in some weight. Your frame can likely handle it fine. I'm 5-11 240. And lean.

    You've got room to grow. Natty if you want to. With the frame you must have to hit those numbers at 6-2. You could easily walk around 250 fairly lean and very muscular natty. Unless you've got a slender build. Which would really make those lift numbers impressive. But top you out at about 235-240. By the time you hit 40 And lean.

    That is complete bullshit man. If that were true there would be so many open class Olympia level competitors.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    That is complete bullshit man. If that were true there would be so many open class Olympia level competitors.
    Cuz, you don't think a guy that's 6-2 can walk around at 250 and be fairly lean? Say 18-20% bf

    Why not?

    I know some people right there now.

    They don't look like you lol.

    But there fairly lean, big strong guys.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 03-04-2021 at 08:36 PM.

  19. #19
    rise_against is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    Well, brother, with the numbers you've stated as your lifts, and the way you have to train to get those numbers, that's just what bulking is going to mean.

    Are you trying to lose fat and Gain mass at the same time?
    That's nearly impossible without gear. And difficult with it.

    If you're hunting higher lift numbers, your going to have to add overall mass. And some will be fat. Then you'll have to cut that off if you're going for a look. Or just wear it proud if you want to lift monster weight.

    At 6-2 230, it's not going to hurt to put on some weight. Your frame can likely handle it fine. I'm 5-11 240. And lean.

    You've got room to grow. Natty if you want to. With the frame you must have to hit those numbers at 6-2. You could easily walk around 250 fairly lean and very muscular natty. Unless you've got a slender build. Which would really make those lift numbers impressive. But top you out at about 235-240. By the time you hit 40 And lean.

    Idk man, Arnold was 6'2" and competed on stage at 235. I'm sure he'd look great at 250 bulked up a bit but he was olympia tier and not natty

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    That is complete bullshit man. If that were true there would be so many open class Olympia level competitors.
    Quote Originally Posted by rise_against View Post
    Idk man, Arnold was 6'2" and competed on stage at 235. I'm sure he'd look great at 250 bulked up a bit but he was olympia tier and not natty
    Well, maybe you and cuz are right. And I overestimated and was talking out my ass.

    But all bullshit aside. The avitar is me. And in the pic I'm 5-11 240. Maybe 235.

    So to me, 6-2 250 doesn't seem a long shot. Think offensive lineman. That's a common size for them. They may not be totally natty. But they do get tested and don't pin near the gear a bodybuilder does. They don't look like arnold. But that's still impressive physical specimens
    Last edited by Hughinn; 03-04-2021 at 08:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    Well, maybe you and cuz are right. And I overestimated and was talking out my ass.

    But all bullshit aside. The avitar is me. And in the pic I'm 5-11 240. Maybe 235.

    So to me, 6-2 250 doesn't seem a long shot. Think offensive lineman. That's a common size for them. They may not be totally natty. But they do get tested and don't pin near the gear a bodybuilder does. They don't look like arnold. But that's still impressive physical specimens
    I've been thinking about this since cuz said he disagreed.

    But for a guy thats 6-2 and squatting nearly 500lbs for reps, deadlifting almost 600lbs, and being under 30.
    Those numbers are better than many professional athletes, even nfl linemen of similar size. Hell i seen a juiced to the gills jon jones posting himself struggling to deadlift 500 and claiming to be a long lanky 240 at 6 foot 4 just yesterday.

    You're right cuz, being 6-2 muscled up and 250 fairly lean isn't common or easy.

    But, there are people that can do it.

    And a guy that push those numbers natty?

    I'd think it wouldn't be a problem. But, I'm open for debate on the matter.

    Ps. I once watched a guy pick up a 50gallon drum of oil off the ground and put it over a tailgate into a truck. He was a heavy set guy at about 5 foot 10 and around 265 natty. Never touched a weight in his life. He did have about a 45inch waist though and was damn near as thick in the chest as he was broad. And he had a big ass setbof shoulders.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 03-05-2021 at 01:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rise_against View Post
    Yeah I've experimented with large bulks and eating in a large surplus but I just got fat �� lean bulks and maingaining works best for me
    I had the same experience with my first cycle but it’s, in hindsight, all in my head. Had my expectations been set at a normal level compared to “Olympia here I come”, I would have been fine. I ate decently well during the cycle and gained some muscle. Compared to not being on cycle it was remarkable which should be the standard measurement.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hughinn View Post
    Cuz, you don't think a guy that's 6-2 can walk around at 250 and be fairly lean? Say 18-20% bf

    Why not?

    I know some people right there now.

    They don't look like you lol.

    But there fairly lean, big strong guys.
    Need to level set what “lean” is...

    18-20% is nowhere near lean in my book, cut those numbers in half and we can talk
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    Quote Originally Posted by rise_against View Post
    Yeah I've experimented with large bulks and eating in a large surplus but I just got fat �� lean bulks and maingaining works best for me
    I can only speak of my first and only test only cycle of 500mg. Completely underwhelmed. Echo a LOT of what has been said above.

    Didn’t see much change till week 8-10. Was working out harder than I ever had at that time and was getting very frustrated, because I thought I was going to add noticeable muscle. Was told to EAT MORE! And I did and like you said, just added more fat, too much compared to the muscle I gained imo.

    My next cycle about a year and a half later was test, var, HGH. Hello lean muscle and goodbye fat. Transitioned into low dose tren and was very pleased. Good luck with everything! One thing you can be SURE of though. The help & experience that you will get from this forum will be incredible. You can clearly see by the other guys avi’s that they can walk the walk as good as they talk the talk.

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    Wannabhuge14 is online now Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah View Post
    Need to level set what “lean” is...

    18-20% is nowhere near lean in my book, cut those numbers in half and we can talk
    Right. A 250 pound guy at 20% body fat equates to 50 pounds of fat. That's a lot of chub in my opinion. Thats an lbm of only 200...yikes
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah View Post
    Need to level set what “lean” is...

    18-20% is nowhere near lean in my book, cut those numbers in half and we can talk
    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabhuge14 View Post
    Right. A 250 pound guy at 20% body fat equates to 50 pounds of fat. That's a lot of chub in my opinion. Thats an lbm of only 200...yikes
    I think y'all are right from a bodybuilding point of view.

    But for some athletes, not necessarily

    https://www.allworldu.com/learn/trai...at-percentage/
    The range of body fat percentage for NFL players varies from 5 to 25 percent or higher

    Of course a footballer with 15-20bf% sure isn't going to look like a jacked bodybuilder. But in my opinion a 6 foot 2 inch 250lb nfl player with 15-20% body fat and in good shape, is a big, strong guy. And a bmf.

    But, y'all are right, he's not going look like a bodybuilder or be jacked, and vascular looking.

  27. #27
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    You can definitely be 6'2" 250 lbs at 17-20% bf natty... Not cut, though. I was 6'2 250/~17-18% bf before I got on TRT/steroids 2.5 years ago. I had a little bit of bloat in the mid section. Right now I'm 247, around ~14-15% bf.

    During my first cycle I only put on about 5 lbs of muscle and a couple lbs of water/fat. I thought, shit, if I can be this big natty, I'm gonna blow up when I get on steroids. Nope.

    I agree with the notion stated by a few members on here that you have to eat to grow. The rules don't change when you're on steroids. When I was 18 and crushing entire digiorno pizzas and eating everything in the fridge, I put on a solid 10 lbs in a year. As we age, it's a lot more difficult to turn calories into muscle fiber, but steroids help.

    I believe that if you are already developed, near your max natty potential, steroids won't make that much of a difference unless you get into heavy doses or harsher compounds. The guys who put on 20 lbs their first cycle are just inexperienced lifters, imo. It's a lot easier to go from 160 to 180 than from 250 to 270.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    You can definitely be 6'2" 250 lbs at 17-20% bf natty... Not cut, though. I was 6'2 250/~17-18% bf before I got on TRT/steroids 2.5 years ago. I had a little bit of bloat in the mid section. Right now I'm 247, around ~14-15% bf.

    During my first cycle I only put on about 5 lbs of muscle and a couple lbs of water/fat. I thought, shit, if I can be this big natty, I'm gonna blow up when I get on steroids. Nope.

    I agree with the notion stated by a few members on here that you have to eat to grow. The rules don't change when you're on steroids. When I was 18 and crushing entire digiorno pizzas and eating everything in the fridge, I put on a solid 10 lbs in a year. As we age, it's a lot more difficult to turn calories into muscle fiber, but steroids help.

    I believe that if you are already developed, near your max natty potential, steroids won't make that much of a difference unless you get into heavy doses or harsher compounds. The guys who put on 20 lbs their first cycle are just inexperienced lifters, imo. It's a lot easier to go from 160 to 180 than from 250 to 270.
    Yep definitely agree. Even with steroids and other growth factors such as gh and insulin you still have a ceiling. And if you've already hit your natural ceiling you can't expect to bang out 10-15 pounds of muscle just because you start using AAS. The closer we get to our limits the longer it takes to put on quality weight.

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    While I think we might have "slightly" different standards on these forums (For obvious reasons) 17-20%+ is not even remotely lean, I would even go as far as to say a bit chubby maybe even fat depending on muscle mass. While a more muscular guy can get away with more fat anyone here would not be fooled. Sub 10% we can start having a conversation.
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    6'2" at 250 w/ 20% sounds exceptionally do-able natty haha. But yeah closer to 10%? Sounds close to impossible without elite genetics.

    Currently on week 2 of my test cycle and I've felt very little so far as well, muscles are a bit fuller in general and my weights progressed a bit despite remaining the same BF so assuming water weight - mostly from the carb intake because mine was so low. I was also eating like 400 below maintenance for like years prior so my metabolism is catching up now that I'm eating a real surplus. Have heard pretty consistently from people that you really gotta be patient with basic test cycles unless you used an oral to boost. Plus - everyone is totally different too, there are hyper responders that once they start taking test and eating they'll eventually fucking balloon 30-50lbs first cycle and skyrocket on their next 2-3 cycles again. Some of us are just less blessed to respond to it. Maybe SARMs are your jam, but be careful given how early we are on our knowledge of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    While I think we might have "slightly" different standards on these forums (For obvious reasons) 17-20%+ is not even remotely lean, I would even go as far as to say a bit chubby maybe even fat depending on muscle mass. While a more muscular guy can get away with more fat anyone here would not be fooled. Sub 10% we can start having a conversation.
    In case you didn't notice, we're already having the conversation.

    Because 15-20% body fat is not uncommon among athletes. And they are big strong healthy guys, in good shape.

    Even many heavyweight fighters and boxers enter the cages and rings with those body fat percentages.

    Sub 10% body fat is almost exclusively for cosmetic reasons excluding endurance runners and weight limit contests. And not necessarily performance. So if you're speaking strictly from a bodybuilding perspective, yes, sub 10% is where the conversation starts. But for an athlete, 20% or less is very much in the ballpark.

    So it depends on what you're talking about. Here on an anabolic forum, some of us are interested in performance and athletics, some on cosmetics and bodybuilding.
    Last edited by Hughinn; 03-06-2021 at 11:03 AM.

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    Guess I was being impatient. Strength has been exploding over the past couple weeks. At the beginning of the cycle I was deadlifting 405 for 3 sets of 8 reps. Last night I went 475 for 4 sets of 8 reps and felt I could have gone quite a bit heavier. Still haven't taken any arimidex but don't seem to be having too many sides. Mild acne on my chest and maybe a little water retention but no hair loss or gyno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rise_against View Post
    I'm about 5 weeks into my first test cycle dosed 500mgs/week, training is good and I'm eating clean at maintenance calories. I thought it would be stronger than sarms. My sarm cycle I dosed 30mg of rad140 + 50mg Ostarine per day while cutting in a steep deficit. I'm confident my test is legit, it comes from a reputable lab... 4 weeks into my sarm cycle I was adding 10-15 pounds per week onto my working sets, while dropping 3-5 pounds per week, eventually holding same weight while continuing to get leaner. With this test cycle I'm getting stronger but it's not even to comparable to the sarms. It's like newbie gains, 5 pounds a week on working sets while eating a lot more calories. Surprised by the results so far. A positive is that my sex drive is through the roof on test and I feel good overall. Am growing which is awesome but strength isn't increasing as much as expected. Do I need to be more patient? Or did I get bunk product
    Not sure how old you are Brother or how long you have been training but I can tell you I trained for several years before I tried gear and when I did it was one shot of Sustanon 250 for 10 weeks and I felt it big time, but I was training to get bigger and stronger and ate everything I could get, I do believe some of the gear was better in the 90’s but at 500mg a week you should have something I would think...could be the diet, training or drugs not sure but I hope you have a better experience going forward

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