Martial arts v.s. STreet Fighting....

**Gumby** · 08-31-2006, 05:55 PM

Honestly,,,,if martial arts didnt work,, then there wouldnt be no point of self defense classes right? I was wondering what u guys think is more effective , Martial arts (any kind) or STreet fighting?
I seen a video of a kung fu white guy knock the sh*t out of a gangster before..

what do do u guys think?

**aadrenaline** · 08-31-2006, 05:58 PM

yea that video is in a thread...

**BigUno** · 08-31-2006, 05:59 PM

most street fights dont last long enough where you could possible use some forms of martial arts. all depends on person your fighting too if he hits like a truck or has a chin of steel any number of punches wont affect him

**aadrenaline** · 08-31-2006, 06:00 PM

idk i honestly think it all depends size, strenght, agility, endurance all plays major factors in fighting..

so you could be 100lbs and amazing with martial arts againts a 225lbs experienced 'street fighter' it all depends who makes 1st moves and where it goes.

**aadrenaline** · 08-31-2006, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by BigUno

most street fights dont last long enough where you could possible use some forms of martial arts. all depends on person your fighting too if he hits like a truck or has a chin of steel any number of punches wont affect him

aim for the throat

**BigUno** · 08-31-2006, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by aadrenaline

aim for the throat

or the nuts

**D3m3nt3d** · 08-31-2006, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by aadrenaline

aim for the throat

This has always been my moto if I am really intimidated.

Im a chin person otherwise. Whenever I fight my chin is always down so its hard to reach - excellent knockout point.

As for the question, it all depends on who you take out of their element.

Example, a TaeKwondo artist, which I have taken as well, is based alot on kicks which to me are really useless in a fight. Put a guy who knows TaeKwonDo on the ground, he knows nothing.

However, let a street fighter take a BJJ artist down to the ground, and you have pretty much stepped into the front door of his house.

**Minimart** · 08-31-2006, 07:34 PM

i think that whos ever got more heart will win the fight its not the size of the dog in the fight its the size of fight in the dog. But i would pic the Martial Arts guy over a street fighter. Bas Rutten has a bunch of videos on street fighting its crazy what you can do.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 08-31-2006, 07:41 PM

Worked with lots of different guys in the last 13 years. Some where martial artists, some boxers and some just street fighters. I'm afraid to say the martial arts guys did not fair well in the street. They were not used to the sheer aggression and total lack of rules. Martial arts are all based around set pieces and certain ways of doing things. Most of these do not apply in the middle of a night club. The new MMA guys are pretty good as they have experience of real pain and have had to fight against all styles. Boxers allways fair well but they normally pretty good street fighters before they boxed. My moneys on the hardened street fighter. While the martial arts guy is spinning through the air Mr streetfighter is breaking a bottle on his head!

**zimmy** · 08-31-2006, 10:12 PM

most arts are just that... art... won't do sh*t on the street...vale tudo / boxing / kick boxing would do very well.

**sooners04** · 09-01-2006, 08:45 AM

Street fights an average last about 90 seconds. Whomever gets the first good shot in wins. Anybody can beat anybody in the street, no rules. Take a bjj guy to the ground and you play right into his strength but you forget that biting eyegouging, groin strikes can all be used. Please wrestle me, I'll bite or rip your eyes out you until you get off.

**zimmy** · 09-01-2006, 09:46 AM

heard that same shit so many times..."with eye gouging / biting / crotch shots"... specially ninjitsu guys...think that it will help. If you have ever been dominated during a fight on the ground , you'd knowt hat biting can be done...but by then...you are getting punched / elbowed from bas positions. Sme with the eye gouge. Staying tight eliminates so many oppurtunities for that.

**scriptfactory** · 09-01-2006, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by zimmy

heard that same shit so many times..."with eye gouging / biting / crotch shots"... specially ninjitsu guys...think that it will help. If you have ever been dominated during a fight on the ground , you'd knowt hat biting can be done...but by then...you are getting punched / elbowed from bas positions. Sme with the eye gouge. Staying tight eliminates so many oppurtunities for that.

Not true. I've the bite mark on my arm to prove it...

Biting, eye gouging and blows to the nuts are EXTREMELY effective in a street fight, especially to someone who is experienced in street fighting. This dude weighed around 350lbs and was pretty tall so he figured he would take me to the ground and lay on top of me. Well it worked since I was only around 220lbs then. He started headbutting me but I wrestled a bit and knew how to counter his headbutts. After he had bloodied himself up a bit he bit into my arm. I bit a chunk of skin from his forehead, kicked/kneed him in the nuts and then got into a pseudo butterfly guard and pretty much leg pressed him off of me. The fight ended soon after that because he couldn't see. There was a lot of blood coming from the bite wound on his forehead.

Bites work, too bad they could also give you diseases and stuff.

**zimmy** · 09-01-2006, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by scriptfactory

Not true. I've the bite mark on my arm to prove it...

Biting, eye gouging and blows to the nuts are EXTREMELY effective in a street fight, especially to someone who is experienced in street fighting. This dude weighed around 350lbs and was pretty tall so he figured he would take me to the ground and lay on top of me. Well it worked since I was only around 220lbs then. He started headbutting me but I wrestled a bit and knew how to counter his headbutts. After he had bloodied himself up a bit he bit into my arm. I bit a chunk of skin from his forehead, kicked/kneed him in the nuts and then got into a pseudo butterfly guard and pretty much leg pressed him off of me. The fight ended soon after that because he couldn't see. There was a lot of blood coming from the bite wound on his forehead.

Bites work, too bad they could also give you diseases and stuff.

**scriptfactory** · 09-01-2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by zimmy

Nice response...

***perfectbeast2001*** · 09-01-2006, 11:31 AM

The guy I work on the door with has a few "anger problems". He was involved in a fight and the opponent bit his eyebrow off so my pal repayed the favour by biting the guys finger off. Yummy! My friend was left with a scar on the eyebrow and behind his ear where they grafted skin from.

**scriptfactory** · 09-01-2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

The guy I work on the door with has a few "anger problems". He was involved in a fight and the opponent bit his eyebrow off so my pal repayed the favour by biting the guys finger off. Yummy! My friend was left with a scar on the eyebrow and behind his ear where they grafted skin from.

But Zimmy says bites don't work! You must be lying!

**sooners04** · 09-01-2006, 11:36 AM

He obviously has NEVER been biten. IMO nothing hurts more. Also don't forget about the throat. A nice punch or grab to the throat will keep the guy thinking twice about punching/elbowing.

**scriptfactory** · 09-01-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by sooners04

He obviously has NEVER been biten. IMO nothing hurts more. Also don't forget about the throat. A nice punch or grab to the throat will keep the guy thinking twice about punching/elbowing.

Word. If you can't breathe you can't fight.

**sooners04** · 09-01-2006, 11:47 AM

Exactly, My BJJ blue belt buddy got into a fight at a club, ended up getting tackled and landed on his back (right where he wants to be, right) grabbed an arm, the other guy stood up, my buddy started an armbar from his back, the other guy stepped over and started stomping my buddies head into the floor. Long story short, my buddy dislocated the guys arm but my buddy got stopped unconscious and spent over a week in the hospital, the other guy had to be pulled away from my buddy and walked away, you tell me who won.

**sooners04** · 09-01-2006, 11:49 AM

BJJ is excellent in the ring but in real life you need to be dirty.

**zimmy** · 09-01-2006, 12:01 PM

on his back is where he wants to be? Ehhh... no. And I have had some one try to bite me...odly enough they found it hard to bite me when my forarm kept coming up and down on there face. Someone reaches up to "gouge my eyes" and i think i'd cream myself...i'd love to see an arm come up all obvious like....but whatever trevor... disagree with me all ya want...vale tudo and bjj can make that sh*t useless. I'm not saying it won't hurt...saying they won't win.

**sooners04** · 09-01-2006, 12:03 PM

In a street fight ANYTHING goes, Its IMPOSSIBLE to say someone without those skills couldn't beat someone with them.

**zimmy** · 09-01-2006, 12:12 PM

possible yes...plausible...no. Just stands to reseason.. 1 person who trains daily for it vs some one who doesn't...and no i'm not talking bout kata's and sh*t cus karate and some of that fluff stuff will get you owned in a fight. Just my opinoin...I respect other peoples opinions...after all...I can't be right if some one else isn't wrong

**scriptfactory** · 09-01-2006, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by zimmy

possible yes...plausible...no. Just stands to reseason.. 1 person who trains daily for it vs some one who doesn't...and no i'm not talking bout kata's and sh*t cus karate and some of that fluff stuff will get you owned in a fight. Just my opinoin...I respect other peoples opinions...after all...I can't be right if some one else isn't wrong

You are so off it's hilarious. I remember when everyone took karate after watching the Karate Kid because they thought it would help them beat everyone up. I used to get in and watch a LOT of street fights before I realized how retarded it was. 9 times out of 10 the guy who studied a martial art (which BJJ is) lost. Think about it. How many times does a BJJ guy spar with a streetfighter? Never...

**sooners04** · 09-01-2006, 12:21 PM

Its just a whole new world in the street. No rules/weapons/friends.

**twosocks40** · 09-01-2006, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by scriptfactory

You are so off it's hilarious. I remember when everyone took karate after watching the Karate Kid because they thought it would help them beat everyone up. I used to get in and watch a LOT of street fights before I realized how retarded it was. 9 times out of 10 the guy who studied a martial art (which BJJ is) lost. Think about it. How many times does a BJJ guy spar with a streetfighter? Never...

Yea dude, a guy with no training will beat a guy who trains every day. Maybe in your karate kid youth days.

Training in anything is NOT going to put you at a disadvantage, although it gives some a false sense of security (karate america belt buying program). BJJ is an art but you are mistaken if you think a BJJ guy wont use the same dirty tricks as a "streetfighter".

**sooners04** · 09-01-2006, 12:59 PM

Exactly, if they both use dirty tricks then EITHER of them can win a street fight against anybody any given night.

**scriptfactory** · 09-01-2006, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by twosocks40

Yea dude, a guy with no training will beat a guy who trains every day. Maybe in your karate kid youth days.

Training in anything is NOT going to put you at a disadvantage, although it gives some a false sense of security (karate america belt buying program). BJJ is an art but you are mistaken if you think a BJJ guy wont use the same dirty tricks as a "streetfighter".

If the guy who trains every day fights using his training he will probably lose. If the same guy fights using dirty tricks he actually has an advantage since he is much more condtioned. My point was people who try to fight using only the things they learn in a classroom/dojo/etc. will lose more often than win. Dirty fighting is more effective (IMO) than just about any martial art in a street fight, unless you are a very high level practitioner of that martial art and/or you can stop the fight very quickly.

Even you agree that dirty fighting is effective, right? Zimmy was saying it wouldn't work against a BJJ guy. What do you think?

**Mighty Joe** · 09-01-2006, 01:46 PM

I don't know Karate......But I know Krazy!

**Oki-Des** · 09-01-2006, 09:03 PM

Fighting requires a lot of natural talent as with anything else. Individuals with good fighting ability can choose from a variety of fighting methods. Just fighting a lot does not make you a good fighter and formal training doesnt either. You can always improve but its like art. You are either good or you are not.
A good street fighter will kick the crap out of a lousy martial artist. A good martial artist will beat a bad street fighter. I like to look at fighting in this fashion. Lets say you have to fight some 700LB giant muscle man. Of course odds would be against you to win, right? Well lets say you have to fight the giant everyday for 1 year. Even if you lose almost everyday, maybe just once, you may pick up a stone and hit the giant in the head winning the fight. Since it is possible to beat the giant, in in reality we usually only fight someone once, there is a chance that either party can win depending on what they choose to use as a style or tool or move to win. Since fights do not always have a controlled outcome, anything can happen. Anyone can beat anyone. Assume you can beat anyone and if you lose, know that you may not lose the next time. If you think about styles winning a fight I think you are looking at it wrong. You should look at fighters winning fights.

Just my 2 cents

**indaweedz** · 09-01-2006, 10:06 PM

ive got a history of biting off more than i can chew occasionally, but if i had knowledge that a guy had some solid training id probably just keep sipping my beer.
on another note its hard to imagine anyone going toe to toe with bas rutten or the likes even if they could use every trick in the book. at the lions den here they teach self defense against guns and knives etc, id like to see what the defense from guns is though...

**zodiac666** · 09-01-2006, 10:23 PM

being athletic and intelligent are usually what make someone a good fighter, but if someone average has good teachers and studies combat for 10 years he will destroy the intelligent athlete every time.

**zimmy** · 09-01-2006, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by indaweedz

ive got a history of biting off more than i can chew occasionally, but if i had knowledge that a guy had some solid training id probably just keep sipping my beer.
on another note its hard to imagine anyone going toe to toe with bas rutten or the likes even if they could use every trick in the book. at the lions den here they teach self defense against guns and knives etc, id like to see what the defense from guns is though...

You train @ the den? I seen a few fighters from there

btw...to those people and there "dirty tricks"... i don't assume you train bjj or have uptight instructors...mine always says "on the street i'd ... "and then move to strike or break limb. ... it's a part of bjj / vale tudo.

**Flagg** · 09-02-2006, 02:58 AM

The key to winning a fight is in your head.

Unfortunately I snap and lose my temper all too easily but I truly believe the guy that can keep a cool, clear head is the winner. Speed as well. Snapping is handy for a short while cause you kinda become immune to pain and fear for a minute or two but you better win your fight in that time otherwise it's good night.

I suppose being a pyscho that can take a huge amount of punishment helps as well.

**Flagg** · 09-02-2006, 03:00 AM

By the way Zodiac666, your avy is one of the best ones here on this board.

Who is it?

**zodiac666** · 09-02-2006, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by Flagg

By the way Zodiac666, your avy is one of the best ones here on this board.

Who is it?

yea, ive always liked that picture, its mark kerr. watch "the smashing machine" its an excellent documentary about kerr

**twosocks40** · 09-02-2006, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by scriptfactory

If the guy who trains every day fights using his training he will probably lose. If the same guy fights using dirty tricks he actually has an advantage since he is much more condtioned. My point was people who try to fight using only the things they learn in a classroom/dojo/etc. will lose more often than win.

This is one of the dumbest things I think I've heard. You must be thinking of some karate america dojo that teaches katas all day, then sells you a false sense of security with every belt. That is NOT my school. That is NOT BJJ. I'm not saying I can't be beaten but for you to say I am at a disadvantage because I train everyday is moronic.

**scriptfactory** · 09-02-2006, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by twosocks40

This is one of the dumbest things I think I've heard. You must be thinking of some karate america dojo that teaches katas all day, then sells you a false sense of security with every belt. That is NOT my school. That is NOT BJJ. I'm not saying I can't be beaten but for you to say I am at a disadvantage because I train everyday is moronic.

That isn't what I said or meant. Read what I wrote again.

A broken glass bottle to the side of your head is more effective than trying an arm-/leglock and it can be performed with little thought. A metal pipe to the body is more effective than pulling guard. A punch to the throat is probably more effective than a kimura. Simple dangerous movements can be pulled off by someone with little experience in street fights. How dangerous is a beginning BJJ student?

I'll say it again for you. If the guy who trains every day, fights using ONLY his martial arts training he will probably lose. If the same guy fights using dirty tricks he actually has an advantage since he is much more condtioned.

**scriptfactory** · 09-02-2006, 09:45 AM

I also want to say that I am not attacking the martial arts. They all serve a purpose and definitely can help with strength and conditioning. I say anyone that uses a pure martial art (like BJJ) against a person that is fighting dirty will be at a disadvantage. Would anyone really choose to take a fight where he wouldn't be allowed to headbutt, eye gouge, fishhook, make low blows, bite, attack with sharp objects, etc. but his opponent would? Zimmy said dirty fighting techniques do not work. What do you think 2socks?