Machida vs Shogun

[icepick27]

i think machida is going to make a statment with shogun on just how good he really is ,machida tko with in 3 rounds ... but shogun definlitly has a punchers chance ,he has exstreamly heavyhands and if he catches anyone with a clean shot he is going to put them out ,he needs to clinch and take this to the matt if he wants to win but i think that is very unlikely ,Machida TKO with in 3 rounds

[J-Dogg]

I 100% disagree.

Machida proves nothing by beating shogun. He has nothing to gain by beating him.

Shogun was the most impressive fighter in pride, more impressive than Wandy or Fedor. The guy just mauled people.

Since joining the UFC though, his performaces have been awful. Sure he beat a geriatric (coleman) and he pulled his last fight off against Chuck, but those victories were so disappointed performance wise compared to any other victory he has ever had. Just because he's won, does not mean he's as good as he once was.

Honestly, I don't even feel he deserves a title shot. But with Rashad and Page doing TUF, Shogun beating chuck and forrest just loosing to AS we are running low on contenders in the LHW for Matchita to beat.

I honestly think Franklin or Henderson stand a much better chance at beating Machida than Shogun.

I really wish Shogun could step his game up, but he has just not shown that with 2 lack luster performances.

Shogun's best chance is to try to turn it into a grapple match, because his conditioning won't support a real MMA fight.

[roid_rage]

I 100% disagree.

Machida proves nothing by beating shogun. He has nothing to gain by beating him.

Shogun was the most impressive fighter in pride, more impressive than Wandy or Fedor. The guy just mauled people.

Since joining the UFC though, his performaces have been awful. Sure he beat a geriatric (coleman) and he pulled his last fight off against Chuck, but those victories were so disappointed performance wise compared to any other victory he has ever had. Just because he's won, does not mean he's as good as he once was.

Honestly, I don't even feel he deserves a title shot. But with Rashad and Page doing TUF, Shogun beating chuck and forrest just loosing to AS we are running low on contenders in the LHW for Matchita to beat.

I honestly think Franklin or Henderson stand a much better chance at beating Machida than Shogun.

I really wish Shogun could step his game up, but he has just not shown that with 2 lack luster performances.

Shogun's best chance is to try to turn it into a grapple match, because his conditioning won't support a real MMA fight.

say what??? Shogun looked against Chuck better than he ever looked in PRIDE (not that the fight lasted too long either) The guy showed some great footwork and head movement, something he did not display while on PRIDE, the only question about shogun is if he can get his cardio back, I dont think anyone doubts about his skills (anyone who knows him at least) the guy is 27 years old, so there is no reason to think he will not be able to get his cardio back, he sucked at his 2 first fight, who wouldnt? he had a f**ed up knee and looked in terrible shape for the Forrest fight (though he was putting a beating on Forrest in the first round) then he totally gasses against coleman in the first round, though still manages to win it by KO.. well, thats pretty easy to explain too, 2 mayor knee surgeries... then he puts the best performace I've seen from him against chuck, flawless I will say, and ppl say.. naaa he only beat chuck, and probalbly all those ppl now bashing him for the victory he got against chuck, were giving him zero chances against chuck before the fight.

By the way, Franklin??? are you serius? who has he beaten at 205 to even mention him as a contender right now? Hendo is always tough, I will never ever say anything against hendo, but he's fighting MW right now, and hasnt won one single fight at 205 either. Shogun is not only the only choice for Machida, is the one with the best chance at him, if he cant do it right now, machida will be undefeted for a pretty looong time.

[roid_rage]

and by the way, im putting money on shogun.

[J-Dogg]

say what??? Shogun looked against Chuck better than he ever looked in PRIDE (not that the fight lasted too long either) The guy showed some great footwork and head movement, something he did not display while on PRIDE, the only question about shogun is if he can get his cardio back, I dont think anyone doubts about his skills (anyone who knows him at least) the guy is 27 years old, so there is no reason to think he will not be able to get his cardio back, he sucked at his 2 first fight, who wouldnt? he had a f**ed up knee and looked in terrible shape for the Forrest fight (though he was putting a beating on Forrest in the first round) then he totally gasses against coleman in the first round, though still manages to win it by KO.. well, thats pretty easy to explain too, 2 mayor knee surgeries... then he puts the best performace I've seen from him against chuck, flawless I will say, and ppl say.. naaa he only beat chuck, and probalbly all those ppl now bashing him for the victory he got against chuck, were giving him zero chances against chuck before the fight.

By the way, Franklin??? are you serius? who has he beaten at 205 to even mention him as a contender right now? Hendo is always tough, I will never ever say anything against hendo, but he's fighting MW right now, and hasnt won one single fight at 205 either. Shogun is not only the only choice for Machida, is the one with the best chance at him, if he cant do it right now, machida will be undefeted for a pretty looong time.

did you forget Franklin just beat Wandy? at a catch weight, I think 195. And he took Henderson to a split decision, which is impressive and should be to you considering you praise Henderson in your reply.

I won't argue about how good Shogun is with you at this point in his career because you putting MONEY on him against Matchita shows your blind pride for your favorite fighter, lol.

But beating Chuck at this point, certainly does not make you the best LHW in the UFC. He can get in line behind the last 4 people who knocked chuck out in the first round.

[roid_rage]

Is not that he beat chuck, or how he beat him, is how he looked against him, Shogun changed his training camp, the guy looked awesome against chuck, and say what you want, but chuck still can hit pretty damm hard, he may not have the best chin anymore, but he couldnt hit shogun ONCE... He looked very different than PRIDE shogun, he looked much betteer. And a catch weight isnt a LHW, and he fought Dan at a catch weight too, so Franklin officially does not have 1 single fight at 205. And who were the guys who knoced chuck out? Page and Rashad, prior to shogun... so if my math doesnt fail me, I can count 1+1=2.

[icepick27]

i agree with people saying shogun isnt that good ,in pride he was a young monster but since them i think he is a averge fighter with heavy hands, knees and good bjj and he doesnt deserve a title shot .but due to the circumstances he does deserve the title match due to his sucsess in pride and he has 2 wins in a row (even if they wernt the best wins) i think rich franklin is just as good as him , i would actully like to see that fight ....but machida is in a different class alltogether and takes him out quick

[J-Dogg]

Is not that he beat chuck, or how he beat him, is how he looked against him, Shogun changed his training camp, the guy looked awesome against chuck, and say what you want, but chuck still can hit pretty damm hard, he may not have the best chin anymore, but he couldnt hit shogun ONCE... He looked very different than PRIDE shogun, he looked much betteer. And a catch weight isnt a LHW, and he fought Dan at a catch weight too, so Franklin officially does not have 1 single fight at 205. And who were the guys who knoced chuck out? Page and Rashad, prior to shogun... so if my math doesnt fail me, I can count 1+1=2.

*puts down crack pipe*

man that was some good crack I just smoked, but Round 1 Chuck Vs. Shogun, I don't know who I'd score the round too. Each had a take down, Shogun an attempted leg lock, Chuck controlled the octagon. Short of the punch that put Chuck down, I don't know who would win the round. Hardly a dominate or impressive victory.

Want to see impressive or dominate? Shogun vs. Rampage in pride. Use that as a reference then watch Shogun Vs. Chuck.

Just do me a favor, watch those 2 fights, then come back and tell me Shogun looked "better in his last fight than he ever did in Pride".

Let me know if you would like links.

[roid_rage]

you have a totally wrong concept of what is controlling the fight... Shogun was backing down, circuling chuck, wasnt trying to get in stupid exchanges with chuck (shogun has heavy hands, but chuck has much heavier hands) thougn in the first 3 minutes all exchages shogun won the exchanges, lefting like 1:42 minutes, Chuck had a good moment, then shogun ko'd him...anyways, I did not say shogun was mauling Chuck, I said it was his best performance, why? simple, you dont stand infront of chuck, why would he wanna stand and trade and risk to get caught? that would've been the most stupid thing he could've done, though he moved around the cage, his footwork was awesome, also his head movement, and defense... chuck never ever got him, that's why im saying it was his best performance, yeah, Shogun raped Page and lots of guys in PRIDE, but also took some punishment while doing it... Now, he looks like is thinking some more, instead of eating punches while he's trying to conect some, he duckes them.... Also, Rashad all the sudden was super hype and wasnt taking shit from anyone, and he cleary lost the first round to chuck, till he caught him, though shogun puts a great performance agaisnt chuck, beating in the first round, but he aint good enough to beat machida... I think you should really re watch the chuck fight... here is a link...

http://kimjudas.blogspot.com/2009/04...-chuck_19.html

[J-Dogg]

Thanks for the linky!
Per your request, I did watch the fight again, 2nd time today

In the exchanges, I don't feel Shogun was really coming out ahead on them. The exchanges in the start he was using leg kicks too, and he was effective with those.

I'm more than happy to acknowledge he has head movement, boxing 101 and he's been working with boxers in his new camp.

You have seen all Shoguns fights, and if you think that is his most impressive victory, god bless you my brother...

When is UFC 104? If you really want to put money on Shogun, I'm happy to spot a bill in a 3rd parties paypal account. I don't like to steal from people, but I'll repent my sins another day.

[TheOdyssey]

I like both of them...
So for me I am happy they are fighting because I think they are the best 2 light heavy but at the same time I am very sad one of them is going to lose...
I hope Machida lose....

[roid_rage]

Thanks for the linky!
Per your request, I did watch the fight again, 2nd time today

In the exchanges, I don't feel Shogun was really coming out ahead on them. The exchanges in the start he was using leg kicks too, and he was effective with those.

I'm more than happy to acknowledge he has head movement, boxing 101 and he's been working with boxers in his new camp.

You have seen all Shoguns fights, and if you think that is his most impressive victory, god bless you my brother...

When is UFC 104? If you really want to put money on Shogun, I'm happy to spot a bill in a 3rd parties paypal account. I don't like to steal from people, but I'll repent my sins another day.

man im a huuuge shogun fan, of couse ive seen all his fights... old shogun was a wild beast, but left him self too open, he would've just go forward and trade with anyone (most of the time, came up winning the trades), now, he seems like a much smarter fighter, he trades when he has to trade, but also avoids damage, at least that was the way he fought chuck, and I think is the right way...

I have no pay pal account bro, since I live in southamerica, there is no way to get a pay pal account from my country...

[J-Dogg]

I like both of them...
So for me I am happy they are fighting because I think they are the best 2 light heavy but at the same time I am very sad one of them is going to lose...
I hope Machida lose....

Hey I hope La Cheeta looses too! I just don't see it happening

[icepick27]

i think the liddle and shogun was a close fight ,it was not at all dominate but he did look 100% better then his last fights his footwork was crisp and so was his angles

[J-Dogg]

i think the liddle and shogun was a close fight ,it was not at all dominate but he did look 100% better then his last fights his footwork was crisp and so was his angles

He certainly looked a TON better than he did in his previous 2 outings.

I would have liked to see it go a little longer though, to see if his cardio was back on track.

The guy use to have a non-stop go-go gas tank, 10 minute rounds too of Faber style energy.

Hard to really test the gas tank against Chuck though, beating him in the first round and a LOT of circling each other. Not many punches thrown and very little JJ or wrestling to tire out. They really only made it through the "feeling out" process, jabs and leg kicks until shogun knocked him out.

While he did certainly look better, you can't really judge how much of Shogun is actually back off a 2 minute knock out.

[roid_rage]

He certainly looked a TON better than he did in his previous 2 outings.

I would have liked to see it go a little longer though, to see if his cardio was back on track.

The guy use to have a non-stop go-go gas tank, 10 minute rounds too of Faber style energy.

Hard to really test the gas tank against Chuck though, beating him in the first round and a LOT of circling each other. Not many punches thrown and very little JJ or wrestling to tire out. They really only made it through the "feeling out" process, jabs and leg kicks until shogun knocked him out.

While he did certainly look better, you can't really judge how much of Shogun is actually back off a 2 minute knock out.

that I will agree, but why woulndt he get his cardio back? it was obvius that for the coleman fight, due to the knee issues he had, he couldnt properly train cardio, in the chuck fight, he already looked much better than the first round against coleman, much lighter and faster, and did not look gass at all, while for the coleman fight, at the end of the first round, he already was breathing heavy. But like I said, he's 27 years old, and had a gap of 6 months to train proper cardio, there is no reason why he wouldnt have everything check for this fight, is not like he's like bj whos cardio is always an "?" point...

[lostcause]

By the way, Franklin??? are you serius? who has he beaten at 205 to even mention him as a contender right now? Hendo is always tough, I will never ever say anything against hendo, but he's fighting MW right now, and hasnt won one single fight at 205 either. Shogun is not only the only choice for Machida, is the one with the best chance at him, if he cant do it right now, machida will be undefeted for a pretty looong time.

franklin has several wins at 205. he fought there for most of his career, until he moved down to MW to be the champ. he also has already fought and lost to machida 5 or 6 yrs ago. rich can hang with anyone at 205 (except AS, lol) and i would love to see him get a rematch against lyotto. shogun hasnt been impressive at all since hes come to the ufc. hes managed to rack up a couple of wins, but none of them have been impressive and he has had a demoralizing loss. his ufc career seems to be a mirroring of cro cops.

fight makes since b/c evans and page being tied up in tuf, forrest last loss, and rich being tied up with belfor.

[roid_rage]

franklin has several wins at 205. he fought there for most of his career, until he moved down to MW to be the champ. he also has already fought and lost to machida 5 or 6 yrs ago. rich can hang with anyone at 205 (except AS, lol) and i would love to see him get a rematch against lyotto. shogun hasnt been impressive at all since hes come to the ufc. hes managed to rack up a couple of wins, but none of them have been impressive and he has had a demoralizing loss. his ufc career seems to be a mirroring of cro cops.

fight makes since b/c evans and page being tied up in tuf, forrest last loss, and rich being tied up with belfor.

you are right, I meant since he came back to the LHWd, the last time he fought as a LHW before going down to the MWd was in 2005, against evan tanner... so since he came back to the LHWd, he hasnt even fought once, And I seriusly doubt he can hang with Lyoto, Page, Evans and shogun, And again, a first round Ko isnt impressive? what should he have done to chuck to make that win impressive, besides walking out of the cage without one single scratch, and having won the fight by Ko within the 1erst round, should he have taken chuck's head off?

[J-Dogg]

that I will agree, but why woulndt he get his cardio back? it was obvius that for the coleman fight, due to the knee issues he had, he couldnt properly train cardio, in the chuck fight, he already looked much better than the first round against coleman, much lighter and faster, and did not look gass at all, while for the coleman fight, at the end of the first round, he already was breathing heavy. But like I said, he's 27 years old, and had a gap of 6 months to train proper cardio, there is no reason why he wouldnt have everything check for this fight, is not like he's like bj whos cardio is always an "?" point...

I don't doubt his body, or physical ability to get back in shape. Like you said, he's only 27, he has lots of fight left in that body even with the knee issues.

One could lack the mental ability or desire to do it though. Shogun is a gifted fighter, really probably one of the most skilled fighters out there. As far as genetically athletic, he's above average also.

But if he just lacks the desire to win, or train as hard as he once had, he can't be the fighter he should be.

I don't think anyone can deny his ability, but his training, conditioning and desire to win is what's been in question. Even Rocky lost to Mr. T when he did not take his training seriously after all!

[roid_rage]

yeah man, of course, but again, why would you doubt about that? he even changed train camps, and he looked sharp in his last fight, unless he is or was in some crap like Paulo Filho got in, I wouldnt doubt about his willing to get back on top.

[Brown Ninja]

I'm calling a Shogun upset. But then again we all saw what Machida did to Thiago Silva and we questioned whether Silva was any good and then we saw him destroy a game Jardine. Heres to hoping Shogun pulls it off

[roid_rage]

Jardine should not be a reference point. Wandy also destroyed him, and we all know what happen to him after. He strugles with agressive fighters looks like.

[southmadejd]

I think Shogun is a great fighter but I think Machida will win this one also. Right now I just think Machida is a little too fast and throws a bunch of good fakes in there that seem to throw his opponents off of their game.

[Knockout_Power]

I 100% disagree.

Machida proves nothing by beating shogun. He has nothing to gain by beating him.

.

Very true, this is not a match that should even be happenning till Shogun gets more consecutive wins under his belt. At least an A.Silva matchup since he wont fight Machida

[100m champ]

i think machida is going to make a statment with shogun on just how good he really is ,machida tko with in 3 rounds ... but shogun definlitly has a punchers chance ,he has exstreamly heavyhands and if he catches anyone with a clean shot he is going to put them out ,he needs to clinch and take this to the matt if he wants to win but i think that is very unlikely ,Machida TKO with in 3 rounds

Ya Machida is just too good of an overall fighter he's killer up on his feet and good on the ground.. I think this fight wont go past the second round

[MadSweeps]

I'm picking Machida by whatever he wants in the 2nd round. I think Shogun has a puncher's chance just like Rashad, but I think we all still remember what happened to Rashad.

[Brown Ninja]

I can't wait for Machida to lose. What will the excuses be then?

[icepick27]

I can't wait for Machida to lose. What will the excuses be then?

dont hate on machida cuase he is good i hate that , he a differnt fighter with a new style of fighting that know one can figure out he smashed rashad evans in 2 rounds rashad look like he was fighting in some ones back yard for the first time he was puzzled , rashad was throwing fakes and machida didnt even flinch and your talking about the LHW champ who was 18-0 before the fight and has the best training camp and coach in mma and machida made a joke out of him . i understand that people jump on the wagon after they see a fighter win a few times and it is anoying but i hate when people bash good fighters and point out stupid thing about them . the bottom line is he is really good and the only way he looses if he gets caught with a lucky haymaker ,shogun in his so called prime wouldnt last a round with machida either

[roid_rage]

dont hate on machida cuase he is good i hate that , he a differnt fighter with a new style of fighting that know one can figure out he smashed rashad evans in 2 rounds rashad look like he was fighting in some ones back yard for the first time he was puzzled , rashad was throwing fakes and machida didnt even flinch and your talking about the LHW champ who was 18-0 before the fight and has the best training camp and coach in mma and machida made a joke out of him . i understand that people jump on the wagon after they see a fighter win a few times and it is anoying but i hate when people bash good fighters and point out stupid thing about them . the bottom line is he is really good and the only way he looses if he gets caught with a lucky haymaker ,shogun in his so called prime wouldnt last a round with machida either

some how I agree, PRIDE shogun would've lost to machida, but New shogun has much better chance at him than old shogun.

[icepick27]

His agressive style back then is tailor made for machida

[Brown Ninja]

I still say Shogun takes it. If I'm wrong I will admit it. Machida is top tier but not a world better than the top 5 guys like everyone seems to give him credit for

[redz]

Shogun looked aweful against Coleman and I really think if Coleman had a bit more int he tank he could have stole that fight. That reason alone si why I am sure he will be beat down by Machida.

[johncalvin]

Shogun has had two knee surgeries. It takes time to get back to 100% after a knee surgery. I personally believe thats why he hasn't been the same fighter we saw in pride.

[Biohazard74]

I think it will be a great fight for 1 long round or even 2 maybe until Machida shows his superior skills standing up. Shogun is going to get knocked out after he runs out of gas trying to take Machida down when he figures out that standing up its going to not work for him. Either way should be an exciting match up. Does Shogun have a shot? Of course he does. Anyone with good hard hands does. But i believe his chances are slim.

[ectomorph28]

Shogun has NO chance in this fight, its comical how hes even fighting for the title given what hes done in his last 3 fights.

Machida is going to toy with Rua.

Rua will be lucky to make it past the 3rd round. Rua is not a good striker, hes a good grappler and he wont be getting Machida down.

LHW division is terrible.

[ectomorph28]

However, lets not get carried away, Machida is becoming a bit too overrated. Evans best wins are against who??? Liddell? Griffin? In the Griffin fight Evans was getting outstruck on the feet for 2.5 rounds. And he KO'd Liddell who cant win a fight and has no punch resistance.

Machida is GREAT, but hes NOT unbeatable. He only looks that way because the people hes fighting are just.... not very good.

[TJ09]

I'l be very surprised if shogun makes it even to the second round KO for machida 1st or 2nd round! If I was a betting man.

[roid_rage]

Shogun has NO chance in this fight, its comical how hes even fighting for the title given what hes done in his last 3 fights.

Machida is going to toy with Rua.

Rua will be lucky to make it past the 3rd round. Rua is not a good striker, hes a good grappler and he wont be getting Machida down.

LHW division is terrible.

and this shows you started to watch MMA a year ago... Shogun was and is (the guy is 27 years old for cry out load) one of the most devastating strikers to ever step in a MMA match...

[ectomorph28]

Well then it clearly shows you lack the ability to evaluate good striking.

How would you explain Rua's striking effort against Diabate?

Rua is a good fighter, i'm well aware of what he did in PRIDE. But hes not a great striker, anybody who thinks he is are just fooling themselves.

[roid_rage]

Well then it clearly shows you lack the ability to evaluate good striking.

How would you explain Rua's striking effort against Diabate?

Rua is a good fighter, i'm well aware of what he did in PRIDE. But hes not a great striker, anybody who thinks he is are just fooling themselves.

I guess you are rating striking as technical striking, since you are a boxing fan, you look for striking to be technical, guess what, Boxing striking is not the same as MMA striking, if not, ask freddy roach (yeah fedor boxing sucks lol) Rua is has good jitz, and 1 sub in like 18 fights, 15 KO/TKOs, I think I will have to say hes strong point is striking. Diabet had like 100 inchs of reach in favor, plus is a world class MT fighter, shogun did what it was best for him, and I would hardly rate someones striking skills by one single fight...