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Thread: Only one fighting style. The most effective.

  1. #41
    Sicko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    I think a lot of this comes down to which particular fight but truly i've seen many great grapplers not be able to deal with somone with good standup and a decent takedown defence... and at the same time for all the people voting MT... we have to remind ourselves what gracie used to be able to do to all the other (standaup)styles before they knew to gaurd against takedowns etc... So nowadays when people say MT they mean "with a takedown defence" but technically MT in it's purest form does not concern itself with takedown defence (save using strikes) so nowadays most purported "standup fighters" are at least adding takedown defence to their repitoire ... so it's not really just pure MT you are doing... Don't get me wrong, I'd vote the same way (MT) If I had to but at the same time keeping in mind that a standup fighter who has no clue to expect a ground game (like most used to fight pre MMA era) will most likely easily loose to a ground fighter (as we saw in the early ufc days) nowadays it's pretty hard to find people who purely do one or the other, they'd be stupid to not learn from all we have seen in the growing sport up until today.. Pretty much nowadays everyone trains in everything to some degree..
    The only issue I have with this is the fact that I grew up way before any of this MMA hype was even dreamed of. And when i got into a fight it took what ever direction it took. In other words what I am saying is you had to be prepared for whatever the guy you were fighting came at you with..There was no specific name or style for the "technique" used it was just how that dude fought..(outside of the few karate guys you would run into every once in a while) so the point is MT is the better one to know because fighting starts out on your feet as a striking game and then "can" move into take down and grappling, but that is just part of what the fight can end up being. Knowing how to strike will always be the foundation to winning a fight with no "rules" or referees.

  2. #42
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    Dec is gonna lose his job the better at MT he gets. He can't wait to use this stuff

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    Dec is gonna lose his job the better at MT he gets. He can't wait to use this stuff
    Hunh..he is going to go from defuse the problem to Abuse the patron..heheheheh...

  4. #44
    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    Dec is gonna lose his job the better at MT he gets. He can't wait to use this stuff
    dec gets taken of doors at a rate of 1 every 2 months as it is, for violent behaviour lol.

  5. #45
    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sicko View Post
    Hunh..he is going to go from defuse the problem to Abuse the patron..heheheheh...
    abuse to defuse is unfortunatly the way it works around dublin lol

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dec11 View Post
    abuse to defuse is unfortunatly the way it works around dublin lol
    Aint nuthin wrong with it as long as management doesnt condemn you for it.
    I was a pit bouncer at a hardcore venue club for a minute and they were real particular at the way you escorted out troublemakers.
    Which made life real difficult due to the extremely violent nature of almost all encounters..Funny the only rules in the pit were no high kicking into the crowd, and you were not allowed to square off and box with anyone. As long as the hitting and kicking was done in the form of what is called "dancing" there was no problem with knocking the other guy/girl out...heheheh..Good times every night!!!

  7. #47
    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sicko View Post
    Aint nuthin wrong with it as long as management doesnt condemn you for it.
    I was a pit bouncer at a hardcore venue club for a minute and they were real particular at the way you escorted out troublemakers.
    Which made life real difficult due to the extremely violent nature of almost all encounters..Funny the only rules in the pit were no high kicking into the crowd, and you were not allowed to square off and box with anyone. As long as the hitting and kicking was done in the form of what is called "dancing" there was no problem with knocking the other guy/girl out...heheheh..Good times every night!!!
    lol, its so fvckin PC here now, you darent lift a finger, i got attacked afew weeks ago and battered crap outa both of them and the owner asked for me to be removed, the camera clearly showed them starting on me and i chased them and got them off camera. i was like wtf??? appar here if you get hit you're just supposed to turn the other cheek, fvck that!!

    i need outa this work, i just cant take crap off ppl without standing up to 'em, if i dont, it bothers me for days

  8. #48
    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    everytime we good a good thread going some spammer w@nkbag starts to ruin it. fvckin a$$holes

  9. #49
    scaredycat is offline Junior Member
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    Me too. I didn't even get through it. Blah, blah, blah...

  10. #50
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    Yeah I pretty much agree with you and the other MT voters (like I said i'd probably vote for MT as well If I had to pick one). I also grew up training long before UFC 1 and such and used to concentrate mostly as a striker (although I did know some ground stuff here and there... ) I was just pretty surprized to see gracie clean house against what seemed to be pretty much anyone until people became more accustomed and prepared for the ground game. To me it was sort of a paradigm shift in the martial arts world.. becasue of gracie and the UFC etc. That makes me think twice before I rush to judgement about what exactly is best because pretty much all of gracies fights (at first) were exactly what we're talking about and he pretty much won them all. I'd like to think I would have been reasonably prepared for the ground game but unless I personally fought the guy I cant really say for sure. But of course it would be pretty crazy for me to try to fight without strikes, that's pretty much my foundation for any fight (as you said).

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    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    check out this video at 1:40 where forrest griffen even says he wouldnt fight stand up muay thai due to the brutality of it lol

    http://vimeo.com/thempl/review/28245493/fa2c46f45f
    Last edited by dec11; 09-13-2011 at 08:37 PM.

  12. #52
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    Don't forget wrestling. It has stood the test of time from the original olympics all the way through the UFC and is still a dominant style to be reckoned with. I have seen it in street fights plenty of times too. Always on top and in control of things...I wish I had taken more time on it as a young one. lol

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    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockinred View Post
    Don't forget wrestling. It has stood the test of time from the original olympics all the way through the UFC and is still a dominant style to be reckoned with. I have seen it in street fights plenty of times too. Always on top and in control of things...I wish I had taken more time on it as a young one. lol
    yep, once a wrestler gets a hold of someone, they're generally fvcked

  14. #54
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    Best way to become unbeatable in MMA is to practice your takedown defence until it is damn near impossible to drop you past your knees and have a killer stand up game including boxing, muay thai and karate to back it up. This will get you past every single wrestler, ju jitsu, grappler etc etc in the business, as long as your standup game is better than thiers. After that you only have to worry about they guys wuth a better standup game than you!

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    wrestling is the best base there is. easier to transition to different aspects of mma coming from a solid wrestling back ground.

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    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    so are we saying MT for stand up and wrestling for take down/ ground?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cro View Post
    wrestling is the best base there is. easier to transition to different aspects of mma coming from a solid wrestling back ground.
    Sorry Cro but have a look at the best fighters around at the moment, there is no need for top wrestling skills if you have excellent takedown defence and great standup! Check out the best pound for pound fighter in the world.

  18. #58
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    deadly combo 4 sure . throw some bjj in and you are a sick basterd.
    Quote Originally Posted by dec11 View Post
    so are we saying MT for stand up and wrestling for take down/ ground?

  19. #59
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    i beg to differ on that 1 .yes anderson silva is not known as a great wrestler but his take down defence is amazing. do you think that comes from training mt?ive trained at the best camps with some top level fighters drilling them in wrestling for weeks.they all train wrestling daily bud .GSP?
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonta66 View Post
    Sorry Cro but have a look at the best fighters around at the moment, there is no need for top wrestling skills if you have excellent takedown defence and great standup! Check out the best pound for pound fighter in the world.

  20. #60
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    Yeah OK, GSP is a freak of nature, he trains in every style, lots of his training has nothing to do with MMA as well.

  21. #61
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    I think Bones Jones is going to be the next best....he would mop the floors with Andreson imo. His background is wrestling.

    I give wrestling a lot of props, but really who could say what is the overall best? It really depends on the fighter within. My favorite standup is boxing... Dad was a boxer, i did at an early age as well...but, I know MT is more dangerous because legs are strong and bringing tose in the mix adds some great dynamics. Still though.... Some punk trained in any of the deadliest forms is still gonna be a punk.

    When we talk cage fighting, all these arguments have been filtered out. Hybrid fighters do the best. MT for stand up and bjj for ground. Wrestlers dominate bjj on the ground for the most part but cant finish due to submission skills. They usually gas and end up getting submitted.

    These threads always make for good talk and arguments.lol. Street fighting is still a whole different animal imo. Not that street fighters are the best by any means, but too many variables in street fights where no one style can be universally the best in any environment.

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    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockinred View Post
    I think Bones Jones is going to be the next best....he would mop the floors with Andreson imo. His background is wrestling.

    I give wrestling a lot of props, but really who could say what is the overall best? It really depends on the fighter within. My favorite standup is boxing... Dad was a boxer, i did at an early age as well...but, I know MT is more dangerous because legs are strong and bringing tose in the mix adds some great dynamics. Still though.... Some punk trained in any of the deadliest forms is still gonna be a punk.

    When we talk cage fighting, all these arguments have been filtered out. Hybrid fighters do the best. MT for stand up and bjj for ground. Wrestlers dominate bjj on the ground for the most part but cant finish due to submission skills. They usually gas and end up getting submitted.

    These threads always make for good talk and arguments.lol. Street fighting is still a whole different animal imo. Not that street fighters are the best by any means, but too many variables in street fights where no one style can be universally the best in any environment.
    on the street 99% of the time its the guy who gets the 1st good solid strike in comes out on top. through doing doors ive seen alot of so called hard street fighters go at it and tbh a decent MT fighter would have them lying on the ground holding their leg and wondering what the fvck just hit them!!

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by dec11 View Post
    on the street 99% of the time its the guy who gets the 1st good solid strike in comes out on top. through doing doors ive seen alot of so called hard street fighters go at it and tbh a decent MT fighter would have them lying on the ground holding their leg and wondering what the fvck just hit them!!
    For sure...the trained fighter is going to have an advantage. When I say street fights.. I don't mean an even one on one in an open area. I mean when shit just happens.

    In the cage or on the mat, you see grapplers take a pounding from punches while on their back waiting for an opportunity to make the submission move. If one was to take a couple of hits in that manner on the concrete floor it will be lights out quick. Head bouncing off concrete will be quickly ended and even deadly. Also, if there is a quick scuffle with people around and tables or other obstacles a take down defense might not work. Or a MT expert won't have the space to exercise skillful opportunity. Sometimes it can be an arms length away before things happen quickly. Big hits land and it is quick.... to quick to even the playing field.

    Also, I have been in fights in gravel dirt.... you can't plant your feet to leverage punches when exchanging and you can fall or end up wrapping up quickly and going to the ground whether you wanted to or not. These are just examples. they can always go all sorts of ways. You have probably seen enough as well.

    Just being around for a long time and have also seen really skilled trained boxers, wrestling that just didn't have a mean bone in them. I have even seen "skilled" or "trained" fighters cower to very violent natured people. There are just so many variables.

  24. #64
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    If wrestling were your "1 style" then how would you finish the fight? Pin the guy and wait for him to give up?
    MT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twist View Post
    If wrestling were your "1 style" then how would you finish the fight? Pin the guy and wait for him to give up?
    MT
    Ground and pound for sure....specially in a street fight. Getting thrown, slammed, and flung around on concrete will get you tapping or quitting quick... I mean real quick.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by scaredycat View Post
    Most wrestlers put BJJ guys right were they want to be.

    I agree with this 100%. I was a state ranked high school wrestler and when I was in the Navy I rolled around with a guy who knew BJJ. I had never even heard of it and it was long before MMA was on the scene. Everything I did to him was exactly what he wanted me to do to him. I was like... WTF? I have got to learn this BJJ stuff. But then I said fukc it and drank a lot of beer and screwed a lot of women. Now I wish I had learned it.

  27. #67
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    like i said wrestling is the best base to start to build on. jones is from my home town ive known him since he was 15.im a 2 time state champion and a div 3 coach with a national title ,im not just talking.i agree jones would give him a hard time.
    Quote Originally Posted by rockinred View Post
    I think Bones Jones is going to be the next best....he would mop the floors with Andreson imo. His background is wrestling.

    I give wrestling a lot of props, but really who could say what is the overall best? It really depends on the fighter within. My favorite standup is boxing... Dad was a boxer, i did at an early age as well...but, I know MT is more dangerous because legs are strong and bringing tose in the mix adds some great dynamics. Still though.... Some punk trained in any of the deadliest forms is still gonna be a punk.

    When we talk cage fighting, all these arguments have been filtered out. Hybrid fighters do the best. MT for stand up and bjj for ground. Wrestlers dominate bjj on the ground for the most part but cant finish due to submission skills. They usually gas and end up getting submitted.

    These threads always make for good talk and arguments.lol. Street fighting is still a whole different animal imo. Not that street fighters are the best by any means, but too many variables in street fights where no one style can be universally the best in any environment.

  28. #68
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    I am tired of this back and forth of which style is the best.. I can solve this dilemma once and for all.. I will dopefiend on yer a$$ and bust out the 45 cal. that says I win no matter what style of fighting you know....heheheheh...

  29. #69
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    In a street fight any martial arts would be better then none. But to end it quickly I would say Judo. You throw someone on concrete, they don't typically get up before the paramedics arrive.
    Last edited by KASPER; 09-30-2011 at 06:24 PM.

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    I honestly dont think just 1 fighting style can be the most effective. Every style has it pro's and con's. If you are talking ufc I would agree with cro and say wrestling is the best base for any fighter, and it is pretty much proven because if you look at a large majority of the greats they have had a base in wrestling.

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    I started boxing when I was 12 and did it up tell I was 27 , then kick boxed for a couple years I have some friends that do fight MMA so I went to the gym with them . And no lie this was the 1st time I really got my ass handed to me and I mean bad .... Take downs arm bars it was all new to me I tried like hell to keep the fight standing up dudes would take a kick or punchs and get in on me . Once I was on the ground that was there real trouble ...... I asked them how the hell are u getting me down so fast everyone laughed they said look at the way u are standing I didnt get it at 1st they showed me how to stop the take downs . But yeah the fight will go down on the ground its just a matter of time . I would say most of the bar fights I have gotin into the fight ended up there to. But when its drunken turds in a bar its easy to rock them but someone who trains for it to go on the ground I dont have a chance lol...

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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonta66 View Post
    Best way to become unbeatable in MMA is to practice your takedown defence until it is damn near impossible to drop you past your knees and have a killer stand up game including boxing, muay thai and karate to back it up. This will get you past every single wrestler, ju jitsu, grappler etc etc in the business, as long as your standup game is better than thiers. After that you only have to worry about they guys wuth a better standup game than you!
    everybody can be taken down,it just depends on who is doing the taking down

  33. #73
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    I hear u there ...... I would love to fight again but I have to choose to get big as hell or train to fight . With all the cardio you have to do to fight you burn mass . Plus I really dont miss the running I hated it more then anything . But I do miss the feeling of walking to the ring and the secs before the fight starts . Its hard to beat that......

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by workhardgethuge View Post
    Depends on if you are looking for....for real world, krav maga is the best hand to hand combat. For MMA its tough....as bjj, mt, and wrestling are all such important aspects.
    as a fighter for over 18 yrs, your right about Krav maga, i have been doing this now along side BJJ for about 5 yrs in the army and after i left. I spend about 4-6 months every yr over in thailand training and fighting. i feel Akedo (not to sure about spelling lol) is also a very well all rounded style of fighting. TBH all about horses for courses. real life get a gun keep your distance lol

  35. #75
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    Submission Grappling! Right, Left, Shooooot!!!

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slinjim View Post
    I think for real world combat krav maga is the most effective
    this is what i've heard as well.

    I look at it simply like this as many feel something like Hapkido is also very good for self defense. The best thing a person can do is pick something they like and be the best they can at it. I don't care who you are on the street, you run into a good boxer, someone who turns their punches over properly, a Muay Thai fighter who can crack you on your shin or that bundle of nerves 2 inches down from your hip and your toast. Each art has it's advantages, but like I said, you can get into street fights everyday, but someone who punches and kicks for 2 hours a day is going to be good at what he/she does.

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    I also have to add that while I try to appreciate each art that most of the time it's not one on one in a world where all of these wannabe thugs and such are afraid to take an ass whipping, so an sort of wrestling or BJJ IMO would not be effective on the street. What would I do if I were faced with an situation like that on the street? Put my hands up, and put all my weight into my opponents knee.. break that leg right down the middle... fights over.

  38. #78
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    I'd prefer MT simply because I'd rather not get into rolling around on the ground as that'd make me an easy target for soccer kicks if someone assaulting me had friends.

    Take-down defense is clearly really important though, so I'd have to get at least that from BJJ.

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    Over the past fifteen years, I have studied American Kickboxing, Western Boxing, Muai Thai, Judo, Jujitsu and Gōjū-ryū/Olympic Karate, respectively. I studied these extensively, one at a time, and I have competed in kickboxing, boxing and karate. At any rate, from your list, I would have to choose Muai Thai without a second guess, granted that you have an experienced, veteran instructor from which to learn. All styles of martial arts can prove brutally effective, depending on its user, but I feel that Muai Thai represents the most useful style in terms of self-discipline, real-world usefulness, and most certainly by aspects of grace, elegance and brutality simultaneously.

    In regards to the story mentioned beforehand about an untrained combatant defeating a Muai Thai champion - anything is possible in any circumstance, and luck always plays a part in a fight. Does that mean it would happen again? Probably not. In fact, I have a hard time believing the Thai fighter was actually a champion.

    Finally, on the subject of Krav-Maga, I have a hard time fitting this style into a category of respectable arts. It's a Jewish military hand-to-hand combat system developed for defending one's self against knives and guns, and while it is most certainly the most popular of countless similar combat systems, it's just that - another militaristic defense system that requires no discipline of character. Character and discipline are what are required to master what most consider "true" forms of martial arts...and I am definitely a proponent of that line of thought. When I was in the Marine Corps, we were taught L.I.N.E. fighting, and it was almost identical. It required only 3-4 weeks of practice to develop the muscle memory required to master, and the same is true of Krav-Maga.

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    I train in both Krav Maga and Boxing and absolutely love it. I would never start a fight in a million years, but sometimes you go out and come across someone that wants a problem and my boxing and Krav training has always come in handy. Highly recommend.

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