worst before bed

[tiger909]

what is the worst thing to eat before bed if u are cutting?

[chest6]

A lot of things..anything specific?

[*Narkissos*]

ice-cream covered pork-rinds

[stocky121]

what is the worst thing to eat before bed if u are cutting?

carbs

[decadbal]

carbs

d i t t o

[Giantz11]

carbs

Not if its your PPWO. Carbs before bed is nothing but a myth.

[Giantz11]

ice-cream covered pork-rinds

Agreed, this would be one bad pre-bed time meal.

[steve0]

this should be a common sense question !!!!!!!!

[tiger909]

im not talking bout specifics....just overall carbs? what kind, how bout fat?

[Giantz11]

There is no worst Macro. I t all depends on y our diet/activity/goals. This question basically cannot be ansered, other than Nark's reply.

[MatrixGuy]

Deep fried lard.

[Myka]

I dont know...but never eat hotdogs and water for breakfast...youll become nauseated...

[xtinaunasty]

ice-cream covered pork-rinds

Agreed, this would be one bad pre-bed time meal.

Great. Now I have to change my diet AGAIN!!

So Giantz...would it be better to change it to a muscle milk/casein shake or maybe some cottage cheese and almonds? Both?

[Giantz11]

Great. Now I have to change my diet AGAIN!!

So Giantz...would it be better to change it to a muscle milk/casein shake or maybe some cottage cheese and almonds? Both?

Cottage Cheese will always be superior to any shake.

[xtinaunasty]

Cottage Cheese will always be superior to any shake.

kurz/flex2winny flashbacks...lol

[Kärnfysikern]

I tried a olive oil and dex shake each night before beed, I though it would be apriproate since the oil would slow down the dextrose and keep me well feed all through the night.

But I got fat. Whats up with that

[decadbal]

I tried a olive oil and dex shake each night before beed, I though it would be apriproate since the oil would slow down the dextrose and keep me well feed all through the night.

But I got fat. Whats up with that

are you being serious?

[Myka]

^^surely not...

[Kärnfysikern]

are you being serious?

Dead serious

[Smoothb001]

NO carbs, any clean protein is the best! ermember when you aer sleeping you are growing! grow big not fat! :P

[Giantz11]

NO carbs, any clean protein is the best! ermember when you aer sleeping you are growing! grow big not fat! :P

Why no carbs?

[Myka]

Ive been thinking that it would be okay to have a small amount of carbs at bedtime in order to make sure my glycogen levels are full for the energy I will need while Im asleep...I believe tai said it takes about 8 hrs to deplete glycogen in the liver...so this would be ideal for sleeping...I would be anabolic all night right?...I dont think this is a hijack it pertains!...Does this make any sense?...

[MrLust]

Is that eight hours of being awake or eight hours of being asleep? Probably a pretty big difference...

[novastepp]

kurz/flex2winny flashbacks...lol

LMAO

[chest6]

I wont eat carbs unless its ppwo..then..Im downing massive amounts

[marcus300]

The final two meals of the day should be lower in carbs,lowering the carbs intake before bed keeps your levels of glucose in the blood lower and the total amount of glucose in the blood before going to bed effects the release of gh, when glucose levels are elevated they blunt gh release so if you back off high carbs in your final two meals you will experience the gh surge, unless your very lean already,

but if you train at night then dont skimp on your carbs after training, body needs them to set the motion of events that promote the re-building of muscle tissue, also all the carbs will be stored in muscle glycogen which deplete after training

[Giantz11]

The final two meals of the day should be lower in carbs,lowering the carbs intake before bed keeps your levels of glucose in the blood lower and the total amount of glucose in the blood before going to bed effects the release of gh, when glucose levels are elevated they blunt gh release so if you back off high carbs in your final two meals you will experience the gh surge, unless your very lean already,

but if you train at night then dont skimp on your carbs after training, body needs them to set the motion of events that promote the re-building of muscle tissue, also all the carbs will be stored in muscle glycogen which deplete after training

Holy shit where do guys pull this shit out of. This above statement is false.

Takahashi Y, Kipnis D M & Daughaday W H. Growth hormone secretion during sleep

"...young adults a remarkable peak of GH
secretion occurs about one hour after the
onset of deep sleep. This GH secretion is
clearly entrained with the onset of deeper
levels of sleep and not with discernible
metabolic stimuli."

The results of this study were clear. The early period of deep sleep in young adults isassociated with a major peak of growth
hormone secretion unassociated with
detectable changes in plasma glucose, fatty
acid, insulin, or cortisol concentration


Some aspects of circadian variations of carbohydrate metabolism and related hormones in man

Plasma growth hormone (GH), insulin , cortisol, and glucose were measured during sleep on 38 nights in eight young adults. Blood was drawn from an indwelling catheter at 30-min intervals; EEG and electrooculogram were recorded throughout the night. In seven subjects, a plasma GH peak (13-72 mμg/ml) lasting 1.5-3.5 hr appeared with the onset of deep sleep. Smaller GH peaks (6-14 mμg/ml) occasionally appeared during subsequent deep sleep phases. Peak GH secretion was delayed if the onset of sleep was delayed. Subjects who were awakened for 2-3 hr and allowed to return to sleep exhibited another peak of GH secretion (14-46 mμg/ml). Peak GH secretion was not correlated with changes in plasma glucose, insulin, and cortisol. The effects of 6-CNS-active drugs on sleep-related GH secretion were investigated. Imipramine (50 mg) completely abolished GH peaks in two of four subjects, whereas chlorpromazine (30 mg), phenobarbital (97 mg), diphenylhydantoin (90 mg), chlordiazepoxide (20 mg), and isocarboxazid (30 mg) did not inhibit GH peaks. Altered hypothalamic activity associated with initiation of sleep results in a major peak of growth hormone secretion unrelated to hypoglycemia or changes in cortisol and insulin secretion

[marcus300]

avoiding carbs before going to bed can help and encourage gh release as lower blood suger levels support gh release, read this statemnet many times and was told by a friend with a degree in exercise science and nutrutional consultant to many top level BB's,
help,support and encourage are the key words,

[Kärnfysikern]

Well either it does increase or does not release gh. Those are realy the only 2 options.

Could you ask your friend for references cause I would be interested in reading it?

[Giantz11]

avoiding carbs before going to bed can help and encourage gh release as lower blood suger levels support gh release, read this statemnet many times and was told by a friend with a degree in exercise science and nutrutional consultant to many top level BB's,
help,support and encourage are the key words,

He's wrong and you can tell him he's wrong. And I'll prove that he's wrong. I have many more studies to reference.

[SVTMuscle*]

Deep fried lard.

that is EXACTLY what i was gonna say!








Anything high is carb's and saturated fat, there is alot more bad for you than there is good unforutnately

[marcus300]

He's wrong and you can tell him he's wrong. And I'll prove that he's wrong. I have many more studies to reference.

I take it you have only read one kind of source/refererence/study to come up with such a statement, when researching nutrition/food you shouldnt have tunnel vision, like many issues when researching with the human body there are loads of different references/sources/studies which say the complete opposite to one and other, as i hope you know there are many things what can and do effect gh levels, just like many what effect testosterone levels in every day life.

In the field of food and Nutrition there are many conflicting sources,reports and references, one study says one thing another say something different, ive read many different references regarding nutrition,hormones,carbs,fats,protien, muscle receptors, Growth Hormone ,igf1, and insulin , we all rely on some kind of study to get our info from or personal experience, I've read many reports concerning this when i studied nutrition for a few years.also been told this by a nutritional consultant who trained many pro's in England who was advising me on my finer points of nutrition a while back.

I will quote one of the references- "GH is a fat liberating muscle building hormone that is released within 30-90mins of sleep, In some, especially those who carry a high amount of BODY FAT, GH levels don't "pop" when glucose levels are elevate, lets put it another way high glucose levels blunt GH release, to take advantage of the gh surge that accompanies sleep back off high carb intake in your final 1 or 2 meals of the day, in contrast a lean individual will experience the gh surge regardless of blood glucose levels,

when the bloodstream has lower blood glucose levels its an ideal environment for initiating sleep induced gh release, as the body fat level begin to decline, the hormonal milieu changes, insulin levels change. In response to eating carbs the leaner body outputs less insulin while the heavy body outputs more insulin, as the person leans down, he gains some momentum in that his hormonal response to eating carbs changes, facilitating fat loss, likewise as the body fat levels drop the individual will no longer have to curtail carbs before going to bed as the lean folks do not EXPERIENCE a compromised gh output with sleep."

I am very happy with the source of my information and i believe it to be true, just like you believe yours, but you shouldn't dismiss it, because your ref says something different, I understand why you say its rubbish but you cant say its not true when there are so many conflicting ref's/source/studies out there, especially with nutrition, ive read both ref's regarding this and I have an open mind to which one may be true or not, maybe there is some truth in both? who knows! the fact is there is no definitive answer with so many conflicting reports, but all i can say is i would rather err on the side of caution for my beliefs.

below are some of the source's and reports which I've read relating to this subject
SOURCES-
Aceoto,Chris(1997-2004), Everything you need to know about fat loss, Kearney,NE,ref-Morris Publishers

Aceto,Chris(1996) ref-Championship Bodybuilding. Adamsville, TN; Fundco printers.

Aceto, Chris (1993)ref- The health Handbook. Adamsville, TN; Fundo printers.

Bursztein, Elwyn, Alkanazi and Kinney (1989)ref- Energy,metabolism,Indirect Calorimetry and Nutrition. Baltimore, MD; Willams and Wilkins.

Kapit, Macey and Meisami(1987)ref- The Physiology Coloring Book. NY,NY; Harper collins publishers, inc.

Page,Hardin and Melnik (1989) ref-The Nutritional Assessment and support. Baltimore, MD; wILLIAMS AND wILKINS.

Pearson and Shaw (1986) ref-The Life Extention weight loss program. Garden City, NY; Doubleday and co.

Rhoades and pflanzer(1992)ref- HumanPhysilogy. Orlando,FL;Sauders college publishing.

Stunkard, Albert(1980)ref- Obesity, Philadelphia, pa;WB Sauders co

[marcus300]

your study which you pasted and i quote;- "Plasma growth hormone (GH), insulin , cortisol, and glucose were measured during sleep on 38 nights in eight young adults"
i am talking about people who carry high amounts of fat like BB's prior to a cutter diet, your study says 8 young adults!! doesnt say what body fat they are carrying, because in lean people with low % body fat it doesnt effect, i think you may have read it wrong or misunderstood it,

i hope this helps you in some way in your future studies.

Regards marcus

[decadbal]

the main reason i have little or no carbs before bed, is that it prohibits your body from entering deeper sleep stages.. which are important to the recovery process... and GH release... and that sirs.... is a fact

[Giantz11]

your study which you pasted and i quote;- "Plasma growth hormone (GH), insulin , cortisol, and glucose were measured during sleep on 38 nights in eight young adults"
i am talking about people who carry high amounts of fat like BB's prior to a cutter diet, your study says 8 young adults!! doesnt say what body fat they are carrying, because in lean people with low % body fat it doesnt effect, i think you may have read it wrong or misunderstood it,

i hope this helps you in some way in your future studies.

Regards marcus

GH Release and insulin have been studied in obese subjects. That'S all and good and you can shoot me any reference you can come up with. But I don't care how much BF% a BB is carrying around we are generally not obese. I don't know about you but I don't become obese when bulking. As you can see in normal healthy young adults insulin plays no part. You can go ahead an show me your studies on GH release, cause I've seen them before and they take place on obese individuals. That study doesn't mention anything about BF%, so please don't assume the individuals all had very low levels. They are healthy young adults and not obese, but don't speculate that you have to be super lean to have insulin not impair HGH release.

[marcus300]

i refer you to my previous post, please read it again.

In the field of food and Nutrition there are many conflicting sources,reports and references, one study says one thing another say something different, ive read many different references regarding nutrition,hormones,carbs,fats,protien, muscle receptors, Growth Hormone ,igf1, and insulin .
I will quote one of the references- "GH is a fat liberating muscle building hormone that is released within 30-90mins of sleep, In some, especially those who carry a high amount of BODY FAT, GH levels don't "pop" when glucose levels are elevate, lets put it another way high glucose levels blunt GH release, to take advantage of the gh surge that accompanies sleep back off high carb intake in your final 1 or 2 meals of the day, in contrast a lean individual will experience the gh surge regardless of blood glucose levels,

when the bloodstream has lower blood glucose levels its an ideal environment for initiating sleep induced gh release, as the body fat level begin to decline, the hormonal milieu changes, insulin levels change. In response to eating carbs the leaner body outputs less insulin while the heavy body outputs more insulin, as the person leans down, he gains some momentum in that his hormonal response to eating carbs changes, facilitating fat loss, likewise as the body fat levels drop the individual will no longer have to curtail carbs before going to bed as the lean folks do not EXPERIENCE a compromised gh output with sleep."

I am very happy with the source of my information and i believe it to be true, just like you believe yours, but you shouldn't dismiss it, because your ref says something different, I understand why you say its rubbish but you cant say its not true when there are so many conflicting ref's/source/studies out there, especially with nutrition, ive read both ref's regarding this and I have an open mind to which one may be true or not, maybe there is some truth in both? who knows! the fact is there is no definitive answer with so many conflicting reports, but all i can say is i would rather err on the side of caution for my beliefs.

thats fine if you believe your study/ref but i also do believe mine, theres nothing set in stone when we study the human body, there are MANY conflicting reports, you shouldnt dismiss anything!

we will have to agree to disagree....regards marcus

[Giantz11]

i refer you to my previous post, please read it again.

In the field of food and Nutrition there are many conflicting sources,reports and references, one study says one thing another say something different, ive read many different references regarding nutrition,hormones,carbs,fats,protien, muscle receptors, Growth Hormone ,igf1, and insulin .
I will quote one of the references- "GH is a fat liberating muscle building hormone that is released within 30-90mins of sleep, In some, especially those who carry a high amount of BODY FAT, GH levels don't "pop" when glucose levels are elevate, lets put it another way high glucose levels blunt GH release, to take advantage of the gh surge that accompanies sleep back off high carb intake in your final 1 or 2 meals of the day, in contrast a lean individual will experience the gh surge regardless of blood glucose levels,

when the bloodstream has lower blood glucose levels its an ideal environment for initiating sleep induced gh release, as the body fat level begin to decline, the hormonal milieu changes, insulin levels change. In response to eating carbs the leaner body outputs less insulin while the heavy body outputs more insulin, as the person leans down, he gains some momentum in that his hormonal response to eating carbs changes, facilitating fat loss, likewise as the body fat levels drop the individual will no longer have to curtail carbs before going to bed as the lean folks do not EXPERIENCE a compromised gh output with sleep."

I am very happy with the source of my information and i believe it to be true, just like you believe yours, but you shouldn't dismiss it, because your ref says something different, I understand why you say its rubbish but you cant say its not true when there are so many conflicting ref's/source/studies out there, especially with nutrition, ive read both ref's regarding this and I have an open mind to which one may be true or not, maybe there is some truth in both? who knows! the fact is there is no definitive answer with so many conflicting reports, but all i can say is i would rather err on the side of caution for my beliefs.

thats fine if you believe your study/ref but i also do believe mine, theres nothing set in stone when we study the human body, there are MANY conflicting reports, you shouldnt dismiss anything!

we will have to agree to disagree....regards marcus

My only probelm with that is you are posting quotes. Not studies or anything factual. It could all be opinoin. Who knows where your authors are getting their Refs. I indexed Pudmed studies. Gh levels don't "pop" is hardly a scientific term. Again I do not believe this to be conflicting refs it is as of right now science vs. opinoin. Granted that opinoin might be based on some science, but as of now who knows what? Anyways I agree to leave this alone and agree to disagree. I do feel as if we are placing far too much value in HGH. It has shown to have very minimal value in terms of muscle growth, this can be seen by people who use supraphysiological levels on exogenous GH. It does aid in fat loss but lets all remember weight training is also a very potent stimulator for GH release.

[SwoleCat]

Just add exogenous GH and eat WTF u want.



~SC~

[chest6]

Just add exogenous GH and eat WTF u want.



~SC~

Theres a solution.

[marcus300]

My only probelm with that is you are posting quotes. Not studies or anything factual. It could all be opinoin. Who knows where your authors are getting their Refs. I indexed Pudmed studies. Gh levels don't "pop" is hardly a scientific term. Again I do not believe this to be conflicting refs it is as of right now science vs. opinoin. Granted that opinoin might be based on some science, but as of now who knows what? Anyways I agree to leave this alone and agree to disagree. I do feel as if we are placing far too much value in HGH. It has shown to have very minimal value in terms of muscle growth, this can be seen by people who use supraphysiological levels on exogenous GH. It does aid in fat loss but lets all remember weight training is also a very potent stimulator for GH release.

The quotes are from books what were published becuase of the studies of this topic, they are studies and proper ref's, and "pop" is an expression just like release,peak. its impossible to say that these studies are not true when there are many conflicting ones around, you should look deeper into this subject and you will relize there are many conflicting studies and this one does seem more believeable,
here is another study/reference for you to take alook at, i hope it helps in some way for your research-

Promoting natural secretion of human growth hormone (hGH)
What many athletes and coaches have failed to understand, however, is that athletes can employ specific training regimens and dietary strategies to optimise their natural secretion of human growth hormone (hGH), so inducing those very adaptations to training that others are cheating to achieve.

Human growth hormone is produced in the anterior portion of the pituitary gland, a pea-sized organ suspended just below the brain, which produces no fewer than nine different hormones. Between them these hormones regulate a number of essential physiological functions, including water and energy balance, reproductive activity and the workings of many other glands in the body.

As its name suggests, growth hormone has largely been associated with the function of growth. For centuries scientists believed that puberty was a cut-off point, with human growth hormone (hGH) playing no part in growth or any other function after that. Recent evidence suggests, however, that human growth hormone (hGH) is involved in many physiological processes throughout life, including the turnover of muscle, bone and collagen, the regulation of fat metabolism and the maintenance of a healthier body composition in later life.

In general, human growth hormone (hGH) secretion follows a circadian rhythm and is secreted in 6-12 discrete pulses per day, with the largest pulse secreted about an hour after the onset of night-time sleep (around midnight for most people). The release and inhibition of human growth hormone (hGH) are governed by two hypothalamic hormones: growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH)) and somatostatin. Growth hormone secretion can be triggered by a number of natural stimuli, the most powerful of which are sleep and exercsie.

The fact that exercise acts as a major stimulus for the natural secretion of human growth hormone (hGH) is well known, but there is still little evidence to suggest how this might happen. Various researchers have suggested that it could be triggered by exercise-induced increases in adren****e, nitric oxide, blood lactate, acidity or nerve activity, either individually or together.

Today there is little doubt that optimising secretion of natural human growth hormone (hGH) is beneficial to sportsmen and women, with none of the many risks associated with hormone abuse, including joint pain, arthritis, abnormal heart growth, muscle weakness, increased blood fats, impaired glucose regulation, diabetes, impotence and, of course, the consequences of breaking the law!

Diet, exercise and sleep patterns all play a role in human growth hormone (hGH) secretion. Since the largest human growth hormone (hGH) surge in a normal day tends to occur around one hour after the onset of night-time sleep, it is vital for athletes to get plenty of it. If the quality of sleep is inadequate there will be a reduction in the volume of human growth hormone (hGH) secreted, with negative consequences for health and fitness. Important preconditions for good quality sleep and optimal human growth hormone (hGH) secretion during sleep include a dark room and a balanced diet containing adequate protein(1). Of course, an adequate quantity of sleep is also required for good health generally, and for most people this means around eight hours.

As far as diet is concerned, athletes are normally advised to ensure it is high in carbohydrate, which generally involves consuming foods with a higher glycaemic index (ie more sugary) immediately after exercise and the more starchy varieties of carbohydrates at most other times. As far as fluid intake is concerned, the standard advice is to drink carbohydrate-electrolyte (sports) drinks before, during and after exercise.

High-carb diets may be appropriate in many situations but, since hyperglycaemia (elevated blood carbohydrate) tends to switch off human growth hormone (hGH) secretion, this strategy may not be appropriate where optimal adaptation is the priority.Fat taken before exercise has also been found to reduce human growth hormone (hGH) secretion (2). It is hard to argue against the use of carbohydrate immediately after training in the few days leading up to a competition, when it is important to ensure that carbohydrate stores in the muscles are fully repleted. However, this is not the best strategy for maintaining the release of human growth hormone (hGH), particularly if the carbs have a high glycaemic index and are taken before bed, as these (sugary) foods stimulate insulin secretion which, in turn, contributes to a reduction in human growth hormone (hGH) (3).
It is also important to drink plenty of water during training, as dehydration has been shown to significantly reduce the exercise-induced human growth hormone (hGH) response (4).

As far as supplementation before exercise is concerned, it has been shown that ingestion of 1.5g of arginine will increase human growth hormone (hGH) secretion by blocking release of the hGH-inhibitor somatostatin, although some studies have suggested this causes gastric disturbance(5). However, 2g of glutamine will lead to elevation of human growth hormone (hGH) 90 minutes later without side effects (6). It may also be a good idea to ingest some amino acids after exercise, as this has been shown to enhance human growth hormone (hGH) secretion too (7).

Richard Godfrey

References
Growth hormone and IGF Research 8(suppl B): 127-9, 1998
Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 76(6): 1418-22, 1993
Metabolism 48(9): 1152-6
European Journal of Endocrinology, 45(4): 445-50, 2001
American Journal of Physiology; Regulative and Integrative Comparative Physiology 279(4):R1455-66, 2000
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 61: 1058-1061, 1995
Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 31(12): 1748-54, 1999
Journal of Endocrinology and Metabolism, 75: 157-162, 1992
Journal of Applied Physiology, 83(5): 1756-1761, 1997
European Journal of Applied Physiology, 72: 460-467