why?

[*_MaXx_JuiCe_*]

if the body will only absorb 35-40 grams of protein per sitting, to my understanding, why do some of these bulking diets consist of 400grams per day wont the body only absorb so much? if im awake for 16 hours eat every two hours at max could consume 320ish grams... is it really beneficial and why to take in rounghly 400 grams per day while on cycle at 200lbs weight?

any input would be helpful
MaXx

[audis4]

if the body will only absorb 35-40 grams of protein per sitting, to my understanding, do these bulking diets consist of 400grams per day wont the body only absorb so much? if im awake for 16 hours eat every two hours at max could consume 320ish grams... is it really beneficial and why to take in rounghly 400 grams per day while on cycle at 200lbs weight?

any input would be helpful
MaXx

You have proof of that?
I'm bulking, taking in 471g protein over 9 meals (about 50-55 per)
I usually do 2-2.5g protein per lbs. body weight while bulking (and "on")

[*_MaXx_JuiCe_*]

i said to my understanding correct me if im wrong

[*_MaXx_JuiCe_*]

what im getting at is i want optimal gains from my test/deca /dbol im about to begin... would like to keep it fairly lean and gain a good bit of quality muscle... got any good links to other threads with good sample bulking diets while "on"? i just need help getting my diet together, my biggest failure is planning. if i could plan ahead what i was going to eat it would be much easier for me because i work shiftwork. pl0x help

[audis4]

what im getting at is i want optimal gains from my test/deca/dbol im about to begin... would like to keep it fairly lean and gain a good bit of quality muscle... got any good links to other threads with good sample bulking diets while "on"? i just need help getting my diet together, my biggest failure is planning. if i could plan ahead what i was going to eat it would be much easier for me because i work shiftwork. pl0x help

I'm cycling currently (and obviously bulking) I weigh about 210lbs @ 9% body fat. I eat 9 meals per day, depending on when I wake up, spread about ever 1.5-2 hours. Check out novastepp's bulking diet (mines somewhat similar). Basically, I'm taking in around 4,000 cals. and my meals are extremely clean. I have incredible strength in the gym

[Kärnfysikern]

well I simply eat more protein because its a source of energy that is less prone to turn into fat. Il rather increase my total kcal by increasing protein than by increasing carbs for instance.

But I see no other reason to eat mega ammounts of protein. I have never noticed the slightest difference in muscle or strenght gains while consuming high protein or just consuming 1g/ib. Some swear by it, some dont. So I guess it comes down to personal preference since there is no evidence that high protein=more muscle.

[*_MaXx_JuiCe_*]

awsome thankyou for the insight guys... good point about the less prone to turning into fat, any other inputs guys? also johan since i have similar stats to audis what do you think of his diet? (see novastepp's bulking diet). also audi wat compunds are you running?

[audis4]

test e
tbol
winny
clen
liquidex
clomid nolva for pct

[*_MaXx_JuiCe_*]

im running dbol (woulda ran tbol if it werent for my awsome apitite on dbol),
test enan
deca
letro
nolva clomid for pct

since im roughly the same stats as you, what do you think of a diet similar to your own?

also how is running clen during your bulking cycle working? you like the results? and how much are you running?

[audis4]

im running dbol (woulda ran tbol if it werent for my awsome apitite on dbol),
test enan
deca
letro
nolva clomid for pct

since im roughly the same stats as you, what do you think of a diet similar to your own?

also how is running clen during your bulking cycle working? you like the results? and how much are you running?

Sure, I can pm you my diet and entire cycle if you want to take a look. I do well with lots of carbs, gives me insane energy in the gym!

I don't introduce clen until the 11th week. I'm only on week one (started bulking sept. 18. So far so good though.

[*_MaXx_JuiCe_*]

ya that would be great if you could...

[audis4]

pm me

[IBdmfkr]

well I simply eat more protein because its a source of energy that is less prone to turn into fat. Il rather increase my total kcal by increasing protein than by increasing carbs for instance.

Can you elaborate on that?

[guest589745]

I'm cycling currently (and obviously bulking) I weigh about 210lbs @ 9% body fat. I eat 9 meals per day, depending on when I wake up, spread about ever 1.5-2 hours. Basically, I'm taking in around 4,000 cals. and my meals are extremely clean. I have incredible strength in the gym

Wheres yer pics?

[guest589745]

Can you elaborate on that?

Are you questioning that I**? I thought the same as johan but I am curious to see where this goes.....

[IBdmfkr]

I'd like to see what 210 at 9% looks like as well. A true 9% that is which would be showing an outline of all abs and a bit of obliques.. Quite impressive for consuming 4000+ calories/day consistantly.
How tall are you bro?

[audis4]

I'd like to see what 210 at 9% looks like as well. A true 9% that is which would be showing an outline of all abs and a bit of obliques.. Quite impressive for consuming 4000+ calories/day consistantly.
How tall are you bro?

6'2"
I'll be happy to post pics when I go back home to get my camera! I had a pic in my avatar (wearing a black shirt) was about 205 there.
Also, I just started my bulk (monday) from a cut.

[IBdmfkr]

badass bro.. impressive stats, look forward to the pics.

[audis4]

badass bro.. impressive stats, look forward to the pics.

booyaaa! thanks, I have a shitload of summer pics

[guest589745]

booyaaa! thanks, I have a shitload of summer pics

NVM.

[Kärnfysikern]

Can you elaborate on that?

for protein to turn to fat it must first go through gluconeogenesis and get converted to carbs. Then the carbs has to be converted to fatty acid. Its a energy inefficient process. Im not sure if the aminoacids can be converted to fatty acids straight away to be honest but I dont think it happens very often.

Either way carbs have a much more straightforward process to get stored as fat.

Also since protein is harder to break down into energy the net calorie gain from protein is more like 3 kcal/gram rather than 4 since 1kcal is used up to produce energy.

The last advantage is offcourse that protein cause nothing near the insulin spike of carbs so yet another motivation for the body to store fat.

There might be some error in what I have written here. But overall I think its pretty correct

[IBdmfkr]

Interesting way of thinking.. any studies to back this or is it all speculation?

You could also look at it like this, carbs are the bodies primary energy source and are readily available to be used whereas Protein/fats have to be converted as stated above.. Being that carbs are protein sparing less protein is needed if carbs are readily available for the body, whereas if carbs are not present then the body will deprive the body of protein in order to convert it to sugar(glucose) which is turn activates triggers insulin , so either way whether you're taking in an abundance of either protein or carbs there is really no benefit as both will be used by the body when the body is in need rather than when an individual chooses, therefore high prot/fat diets are pretty much just depriving the body which ultimately just affects your energy levels and workout intensity.

What I haven't figured out yet is by taking in low GI carbs constantly throughout the day compared to taking in a high protein diet with insufficient carbs if the persons blood sugar level will spike when the body makes the protein/glucose conversion as opposed to having a abundant supply of low GI carbs in the body keeping the BG levels constant.
I think I just confused myself, did any of that make sense?

[guest589745]

Interesting way of thinking.. any studies to back this or is it all speculation?

Whats yer opinion IB Dmfkr?

[IBdmfkr]

posted.. lemme re-read it because I was typing while thinking and that's never a good thing LOL

btw mine is all speculation, so I'd have to dig for studies as I'm not sure of the answer on this one. Anyone feel free to chime in or challenge either of our theories? I am shooting from the hip.

[guest589745]

"Insulin and HGH do not like to share the same time in the body together. When one is present the other is not in most instances.

It takes advantage of ketosis/lipolysis and insulin by cycling carbs weekly. Something missing from a standard low carb diet. The greatest benefit of ketosis to the bodybuilder is the fact it is muscle sparing. The body uses fat for fuel therefore there is no reason to break down muscle/protein in the absence of glucose for fuel. The problem with using ketosis full time is you lose the benefit of the most anabolic hormone in your body. Insulin. The problem with insulin is it also stores fat.

So M-F you eat under 30 grams of carbs a day. The ratio is 65%fat/30%protein/5%carbs. A lot of people would see that ratio and think it will add fat, ir leave them energyless. Not accurate. Insulin is the vehicle for fat storage. Without insulin release the fat will simply be broken down in to glycerol and fatty acids and after a metabolic shift, ketosis will take over and make ketones for brain fuel.
After Monday or Tuesday your glycogen stores are exhausted and ketosis begins to kick in. Now insulin levels are low which would clear the road for higher HGH/IGF levels. You are muscle sparing and anabolic at the same time while burning fat (body and dietary) for fuel. The perfect scenario.

Comes Saturday. The ideal ratio is now 55%carbs/15%protein/30%fat (however the wording in the book is carbs are unlimited.). What happens here is the body is shocked. It immediately starts shuttling glycogen and amino acids in to the muscles. Insulin is now in effect here. The key is to know your limits. Carbs will turn to bodyfat faster than fat at this point. You have to carb up until the muscles are full.

Also it is proven a diet higher in fat produces higher testosterone levels . I have links in a previous ar........"



*I read this somewhere else, about the "anabolic diet" not sur eif its any help for you two but I thought it was interesting.

[IBdmfkr]

Ketosis is the lack of carbs.. so how is a diet with 5% carbs considered a ketone diet?

[guest589745]

Ketosis is the lack of carbs.. so how is a diet with 5% carbs considered a ketone diet?

By lack of you mean complete absence of ? If not, wouldnt 5% be a lack of carbs?

[IBdmfkr]

To bring myself to ketosis while dieting for my comp I had to competely eliminate carbs, apparently it seems "5% can be from non refined carbs, low GI carbs such as Spinach, asparagus, or broccli until the Ketodiastix indicated ketones." If you haven't tried this type of diet, do so and tell me if you can lift at 100% efficiency I could hardly get out of bed and do my daily activities.

[guest589745]

To bring myself to ketosis while dieting for my comp I had to competely eliminate carbs, apparently it seems "5% can be from non refined carbs, low GI carbs such as Spinach, asparagus, or broccli until the Ketodiastix indicated ketones." If you haven't tried this type of diet, do so and tell me if you can lift at 100% efficiency I could hardly get out of bed and do my daily activities.

Interesting. I was under the impression your body would use fat/protein as its source of energy in the absence of carbs therfore a lack of energy could be avoided. No denying what it did to you though.

[Kärnfysikern]

Interesting way of thinking.. any studies to back this or is it all speculation?

if I had time I could probably look them up. Il try to remember and do that someday
But its basicly what I have picked up from various diet books ect

You could also look at it like this, carbs are the bodies primary energy source and are readily available to be used whereas Protein/fats have to be converted as stated above.. Being that carbs are protein sparing less protein is needed if carbs are readily available for the body, whereas if carbs are not present then the body will deprive the body of protein in order to convert it to sugar(glucose) which is turn activates triggers insulin, so either way whether you're taking in an abundance of either protein or carbs there is really no benefit as both will be used by the body when the body is in need rather than when an individual chooses, therefore high prot/fat diets are pretty much just depriving the body which ultimately just affects your energy levels and workout intensity.

Yeah I se your point of view.
But gluconeogenesis will never produce anywhere near the insulin spikes that carbs does. Allthough aminoacids by there own do raise insulin a bit.
Personaly I think both ways work. It just depends on body type. My body hates carbs, I can not lose fat if I eat carbs and I se no extra gains from eating carbs. There must be plenty of genetic factors influencing the body preferences. There is no benifit to muscle growth doing one way over the other as far as I know.

What I haven't figured out yet is by taking in low GI carbs constantly throughout the day compared to taking in a high protein diet with insufficient carbs if the persons blood sugar level will spike when the body makes the protein/glucose conversion as opposed to having a abundant supply of low GI carbs in the body keeping the BG levels constant.
I think I just confused myself, did any of that make sense?

If you eat a low/no carb diet the body will just make the carbs it need from gluconeogenesis and the rest of the energy needs are covered by ketones, so in a way you get exactly the ammount of carbs you need when doing a high protein, low carb diet.

I cant say anything about the insulin release associated with gluconeogenesis because I havent realy read much about it to be honest. But considering its a pretty slow and even process I am assuming it feeds the body with a pretty constant dripple of carbs that is needed for some brain functions ect. I dont think it ever reaches ammounts big enough to trigger any large insulin release. I have a BG meter at home, I could always check my BG levels over a day when eating low carbs and se what its like. Especialy after meals. Remind me of doing that

Bottom line though. I feel a semi high protein-low carb or a medium protein-medium carb both work equaly well to put on muscle. Like you say carbs are protein sparing. I just feel some might benifit more from the former and some from the later.

[Kärnfysikern]

To bring myself to ketosis while dieting for my comp I had to competely eliminate carbs, apparently it seems "5% can be from non refined carbs, low GI carbs such as Spinach, asparagus, or broccli until the Ketodiastix indicated ketones." If you haven't tried this type of diet, do so and tell me if you can lift at 100% efficiency I could hardly get out of bed and do my daily activities.

I think this is kind of a transition period for some. It takes a while to get used to low carb or no carb diets.

But I can honestly say that I have more energy while on low carbs. Even compared to eating exclusivly low and medium gi carbs.
My peak energy to workout is always first thing in the morning when I guess Im the most carb depleted, I dont even have to eat anything before(allthough I do nowdays for the anabolic effect) and I can hit any muscle group without any fatigue.
If I however train in the evening it doesnt matter if I eat high or low carbs. Im sluggish and slow and cant perform half as good

I do not advocate full blown keto though, because it eliminates fruits from the diet and I think fruits are one of the most important things to have in any diet. Bacon sure cant replace bananans and aples

[IBdmfkr]

Good points Johan.. as it comes down to both are effective and an individual will have to experiment with both to see which he can apply..

Wish it was more cut and dry/black and white but unfortunently the human body doesn't work like that

Let me know if you remember to test your Bloodsugar during an extremely low carb day. Be interesting to see the results before/during/inbetween meals.

[Kärnfysikern]

Good points Johan.. as it comes down to both are effective and an individual will have to experiment with both to see which he can apply..

Wish it was more cut and dry/black and white but unfortunently the human body doesn't work like that

Let me know if you remember to test your Bloodsugar during an extremely low carb day. Be interesting to see the results before/during/inbetween meals.

yeah. the body sure is a son of a bitch

Il try to remember. To be honest with all the hand ins, labs and other crap our professors are throwing at us right now I can hardly remember to put my pants on in the morning.
But Il try to get it done the moment I have gotten through this nasty ass cold. What spacing do you think would be good betwen the measurements??

Since after the meal is most interesting I guess once every fiften minutes after the meal for like 1-1,5 hour and then a few times over the day betwen meals.

[IBdmfkr]

Yea, log it and post it when you have time.. Maybe on the weekend.. Be very interesting to see.. I'll try and do the same with a very low GI carb/lean protein meal as opposed to a higher GI carb/fattier protein meal.. Should be interesting.