Shakes...thoughts?

[GUnit33]

Well, I've taken a week off my cutter to un-feeling shitty myself, and it worked, and on Monday I'm going to begin again, but may try a different approach, even though I had good success with the way I was before hand. Normally wiht my diet, I use two shakes...mostly for convinience with getting my EFAs in with my diet. Shakes just seems to compliment efas real well, so I do it that way. So, 2 of my 6 meals are normally shakes. I was doing so reading on other boards, and people are swearing by shakes and this and that, and normally I'd say blah blah who cares, but than I got to thinking...to each his own. I'm think about doing a breakfast shake instead of my normal egg whites to start off this cutter, and than if it doesn't help any or I'm not seeing as good of results I'll revert baack to real food. But what's your guys take on having more than a couple of shakes in a diet? Another reason I'm thinking about doing this is convinence because of my new job. I need something I can slap together quickly in a blender, down it and I'm off. Anyways...thoughts?

[audis4]

I grow nicely with whole foods. Shakes get digested too quickly and I am left hungry 20min later.
I know Johan swears by them, they just don't work for me.

[GUnit33]

I grow nicely with whole foods. Shakes get digested too quickly and I am left hungry 20min later.
I know Johan swears by them, they just don't work for me.

And that's why I'm gona test it out. It just seems to me there isn't any correct answer, you know? Some people work well with them and get better results, others do not. So I'm gona give it a go.

[JohnboyF]

And that's why I'm gona test it out. It just seems to me there isn't any correct answer, you know? Some people work well with them and get better results, others do not. So I'm gona give it a go.

your right.. exatly.. i belive I** hardly uses anything but BCAA's. its body specific and also budget specific too..

[Giants11]

I don't see how one could react more favorably to shakes rather than whole foods.

Shakes are rapidly digested, which means a few things.

You are not as full for nearly as long, you have a rapid ride in plasma amino concentrations to the point where your body cannot utilize them and exrects them, and you are not gaining the benefi of the Thermic Effect of Food. Which is most beneficial when dieting and is only obtained when eating whole foods.

[Giants11]

your right.. exatly.. i belive I** hardly uses anything but BCAA's. its body specific and also budget specific too..

There's no way he just uses BCAA's.

That would not be good, they are digested far far too fast.

The idea is to have a constant flow of Amino's, during both bulking and cutting.

[JohnboyF]

I meant supplement wise giants... he is not an advocate of shakes at all...also it was estimate but not sure 100% tru.. but he is a strong whole food advocate.

My main point was to state that its dependant on the person some ppl use them other don't..

but great post above giants

[zodiac666]

And that's why I'm gona test it out. It just seems to me there isn't any correct answer, you know? Some people work well with them and get better results, others do not. So I'm gona give it a go.

i do agree with giants that whole foods would be a better choice but the main thing that matters is what types of macro's you are getting. you will see people who say "no, shakes are useless, you have to eat whole foods" and sometimes these people look like shit and dont have a clue what they're talking about. i still drink tuna and oat shakes fairly often because you can carry them around and it only takes 30seconds to chug (yes they do taste like shit though). if it is just a regular meal and you have an MRP that has good complex carbs and a variety of protein sources that match the marcos that you are trying to get, then go for it there is nothing wrong with that meal. hell i imagine even the pros drink a few MRP's throughout the day.

the main thing that matters is that you reach the macros that you set up in your diet, there is not going to be much of a difference if you replace a chicken and rice meal with a shake that has the same macros.

[Giants11]

You would in fact see a huge difference in someone that replaced all of their macro's with shakes vs someone who ate whole foods.

A meal here and there, no problem.

But overall it is better to consume whole foods.

[zodiac666]

You would in fact see a huge difference in someone that replaced all of their macro's with shakes vs someone who ate whole foods.

A meal here and there, no problem.

But overall it is better to consume whole foods.

i agree 100%, i definitely wasnt suggesting to switch all meals to shakes

[brutesinme]

Giants,
I always thought that the thermic effect of food referred to the energy it takes to process the nutrients once digested. Glucogenisis, for example, is not an efficient process, so some of the energy in the protein is used in converting it to glucose. If this is the case, then wouldn't it be a moot point whether the nutrient source was a shake or a chicken breast?

[zodiac666]

I don't see how one could react more favorably to shakes rather than whole foods.

Shakes are rapidly digested, which means a few things.

You are not as full for nearly as long, you have a rapid ride in plasma amino concentrations to the point where your body cannot utilize them and exrects them, and you are not gaining the benefi of the Thermic Effect of Food. Which is most beneficial when dieting and is only obtained when eating whole foods.

i am not the most educated guy here but brute brought up a good point, the thermic effect of food is the energy it takes to digest the food. i would think if something is digested quickly it would have a higher thermic effect for a shorter period of time as opposed to slower digesting foods.

[Giants11]

Giants,
I always thought that the thermic effect of food referred to the energy it takes to process the nutrients once digested. Glucogenisis, for example, is not an efficient process, so some of the energy in the protein is used in converting it to glucose. If this is the case, then wouldn't it be a moot point whether the nutrient source was a shake or a chicken breast?

Not at all, a shake will be absorbed much faster than any chicken breast could ever be.

When you drink a shake the protein is rapidly digested, meaning that your plasma levels of Amino's skyrockets. Your body simply cannot process the influx of protein leaving much to just be excreted.

Not if you eat slower digesting foods, you do have chance for gluconeogensis, because the proteins are slowly being broken down and then being converted into glucose.

It simple really, whole foods will take far longer to digest, meaning their TEF will be much higher.

[zodiac666]

also i was curious, if i blend up oats and tuna do i really digest it that much faster than if i just chew it?

[Giants11]

i am not the most educated guy here but brute brought up a good point, the thermic effect of food is the energy it takes to digest the food. i would think if something is digested quickly it would have a higher thermic effect for a shorter period of time as opposed to slower digesting foods.

No quite the opposite, you body doesn't need to do much when things are rapidly digested.

The point is, whole foods are not rapidly digested, that right there is what gives you the TEF. Digestion. And then energy it takes to break down protein.

Now you tell me what would require more energy, breaking down meat and whole foods as opposed to Whey shakes.

[Giants11]

also i was curious, if i blend up oats and tuna do i really digest it that much faster than if i just chew it?

No, the digestion would remain just about the same.

[zodiac666]

When you drink a shake the protein is rapidly digested, meaning that your plasma levels of Amino's skyrockets. Your body simply cannot process the influx of protein leaving much to just be excreted.

in your opinion does this also apply to PWO shakes with whey protein, or does your body need the protein bad enough that it does use it?

[Giants11]

in your opinion does this also apply to PWO shakes with whey protein, or does your body need the protein bad enough that it does use it?

Well there is a situation where your body does need protein so in thsi case, a rapid influx is warrented since it contributes to protein synthesis.

But at the same time, this is also possible, so it better to have both a slow and fast protein.

For example I like to use whey immeaditely upon completion of weights.

Then about 10 minutes after, I'll follow up with cottage cheese and a Bagel. This ensures that you have a steady flow of amino's.

But in all reality the Pre workout should be the focus as slow digesting protein eaten before the workout provide a steady flow of amino's during your workout which could be more beneficial than even post workout protein. Some studies do suggest that, that is indeed possible.

[brutesinme]

No quite the opposite, you body doesn't need to do much when things are rapidly digested.

The point is, whole foods are not rapidly digested, that right there is what gives you the TEF. Digestion. And then energy it takes to break down protein.

Now you tell me what would require more energy, breaking down meat and whole foods as opposed to Whey shakes.

My point was that the thermic effect of food, as i understand it. is the whole process from ingestion to either storage/use. Of this process digestion is only a part, other parts involve either the conversion of aminos to a teneble energy substrate or the use of aminos in repairing tissue. As i understand it, these are energy expensive processes, and these energy costs are also added to the TEF budget. If this is the case, then the difference between the TEF of whole foods and the TEF of processed whey is less than assumed. If not, then by all means inform me. As an aside, i agree wholeheartedly that whole foods are healthier than processed foods, and this certainly applies to processed proteins.

[Giants11]

You are correct, however you missed my point.

Whey is too rapidly digested, not even giving itself a chance to be converted into an energy source. Which is the energy consuming process.

Most will judt be excreted due to it being to rapidly absorbed in the bloodstream.

Amino's need to be convered into glucose which is a time and energy consuming process, therefore cannot be accomplished if the protein is digested a such a rapid pace.

[chuck89gt5.0]

You would in fact see a huge difference in someone that replaced all of their macro's with shakes vs someone who ate whole foods.

A meal here and there, no problem.

But overall it is better to consume whole foods.

I agree with this 100%
During my cutting diet I would normally consume upwards of 3 shakes a day instead of whole foods. Finally after talking to some bros on here I decided to cut shakes out COMPLETELY and every single meal is whole foods....That made such a big difference in my diet I looked much better and dropped fat easier doing this. I will only drink a shake in an emergency.

[zodiac666]

Well there is a situation where your body does need protein so in thsi case, a rapid influx is warrented since it contributes to protein synthesis.

But at the same time, this is also possible, so it better to have both a slow and fast protein.

For example I like to use whey immeaditely upon completion of weights.

Then about 10 minutes after, I'll follow up with cottage cheese and a Bagel. This ensures that you have a steady flow of amino's.

But in all reality the Pre workout should be the focus as slow digesting protein eaten before the workout provide a steady flow of amino's during your workout which could be more beneficial than even post workout protein. Some studies do suggest that, that is indeed possible.

thanks for all the info