Bulking calories

**440Charger** · 09-04-2007, 07:14 PM

Just wondering how many calories You guys think I should take for a clean naturle bulk? The caloric calculator said 2800-3200 (moderate to very active) for my hight and body weight. Should I aim for 3500 a day? I cut down and lost all this body fat so I dont want to do no dirty ass bulk now.

**440Charger** · 09-04-2007, 07:16 PM

Also does 40/30/30 Carbs/Protein/Fat sound ok? what ratio would u guys reccomend

**mkrulic** · 09-04-2007, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by 440Charger

Also does 40/30/30 Carbs/Protein/Fat sound ok? what ratio would u guys reccomend

I started a similiar thread to this awhile back. all the research from manuals and school texts Ive been reading says that carbs should be between 50-65% of your caloric intake. 50% for light activity. and that protien should not exceed 1.8g/kg of body weight. my theory is if your not using steroids this applies. if you are then 2g/lb of lean bw applies. keep fat 20% or below. these are the numbers Im running w/: 54/27/19 im off right now. when I get back on this will change

**godkilla** · 09-04-2007, 08:24 PM

try slowly ramping up your cals from maintenance while keeping an eye on your weight and bf%. atleast tahts what i do. i also dont go over 20% fat either.

**440Charger** · 09-04-2007, 08:26 PM

cool... I plan on cycling possibly starting dec but I wana do these next few months natural...

**440Charger** · 09-04-2007, 08:28 PM

Ok so at 180 lbs right now I should get 145 of protein rougly a day

**440Charger** · 09-04-2007, 08:36 PM

Right now im prob eating about 2000 or so So ill aim for about 2500 for now I guess at 50/30/20 carbs/pro/fat so thats = 1250/750/500 or 312g/187g/62g

which seems to make sense i Guess since 1.8 g of protein per kg of bw would be 145. This is just a bit higher.

Time to go grocery shoping :P

**mkrulic** · 09-04-2007, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by 440Charger

Right now im prob eating about 2000 or so So ill aim for about 2500 for now I guess at 50/30/20 carbs/pro/fat so that = 1250/750/50 or 312g/187g/62g

which seems to make sense i Guess since 1.8 g of protein per kg of bw would be 145. This is just a bit higher.
Time to go grocery shoping :P

I read in the arnold schwarzenegger encyclopedia that you dont process 100% of the protien you get from meat since it doesnt have all required amino acids to make it a complete protien. if the bulk comes from chicken and beef you can expect to process around 70%

**Johny-too-small** · 09-04-2007, 09:21 PM

Imo, you need 1-1.5 MINIMUM grams of protien per pound that you weigh to have a positive nitrogen balance and maximize lbm growth. So, if you weigh 150lbs then you'd want to eat 150-225 grams of protein ED. I weigh 190 and eat 300+ grams of protein ED. Just my 2c's.

**440Charger** · 09-05-2007, 08:13 AM

Everything ive read is in line with mkrulic at 1.5.-1.8 per kg of body weight....

where do you get your numbers? Whats others take on this?

**Johny-too-small** · 09-05-2007, 08:18 AM

For starters:

The BASICS-
1. Postworkout Nutrition- I’m a firm believer that PWO nutrition is hands down the most important aspect of dieting. It is within the 15 minutes after a workout that your body is in dire need of nutrients. It is a completely anabolic state, and what you take in can be optimized to ensure maximum results. A general rule of thumb is 40-60 grams whey protein, and double the amount of whey in carbohydrates (50% dextrose/50% maltodextrin).

2. Carbs- carbohydrates are a very helpful macronutrient when you are trying to gain lean mass. However, carbohydrates are only useful if they are used at the correct times. In my opionion carbohydrates are only necessary for 3 meals of the day. These meals include breakfast, your PWO Shake, and your PPWO Meal. Your breakfast and PPWO meals should be comprised of slow burning complex carbs that are low on the glycemic chart. Some good examples of low glycemic carbs are brown rice, yams, and oatmeal. Others may include whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta.

3. Protein- Just like when you are cutting, you need plenty of protein. For bulking, a good rule of thumb is 2-3g of protein per pound of lean bodyweight. You should take in a good portion of your protein in the source of real meals, avoid intaking too many shakes, as real food comes to a better benefit. The list foods with high protein bioavailability is extensive, and I will only cover a few, (Egg whites, Lean steak, Chicken breast, the list goes on forever….).
4. Fats- EFA’s (Essential Fatty Acids) are extremely important in any diet. The list of benefits from taking in dietary fats I extensive and I am not even going to get started on it. I will just say that a diet which includes EFA’s will yield much better results. Good sources of fat are ( Flax Oil, Nuts, Salmon, Olive Oil). EFA

5. The separation of Carbs and Fats- This is a hotly debated issue, but again, in my opinion, an important aspect nonetheless. Remember that it is often when you eat items and with what you eat them that is more important than what you are eating. A mouthful, I know, but stay with me. Remember that when you take in certain carbs, you can spike your insulin levels. If you are taking in fats when your insulin has been spiked, you are allowing the basic laws of physiology to act out, and you allow for a higher propensity for fat storage. Separation is key. The sample diet will give a good example of how to separate them.

6. Supplements-

Glutamine: Helps prevent catabolism. Best used in dosages of 10grams daily, 5 grams before cardio, 5 grams at another interval, but not after workout as it fights for absorption with the glutamine peptides in whey.

ALA/R-ALA- Gets my supplement of the day award. R-ALA is effective in lowering the spike of insulin when certain carbs are consumed. I could give you a dissertation on the stereoentisomeric properties of the R, but all you need to know is that it has been found to shuttle carbohydrates away from adipose and into myocytes. Translation: Away from fat cells, into muscle cells. It’s a supplement, however, not a miracle worker. It’s not a crutch, and won’t do anything about fat intake. ALA and R-ALA can also aid in the expedition of the ketogenic state. Remember that if you buy R-ALA that you supplement it with Biotin. Glucorell-R is prepackaged with it. If you can afford it, go for it. As far as dosage, with the R, you are looking at 1-2 pills of Glucorell R for each 30-40grams of carb intake.

UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet...

**440Charger** · 09-05-2007, 10:29 AM

That says per pound of lean body weight.. SO that doesnt include bf, water, bones ect... Only includes Muscle tissue no? so 2g's per pound would be way over.....

**440Charger** · 09-05-2007, 10:30 AM

my bad.. lean body does include everything but fat

**Johny-too-small** · 09-05-2007, 11:12 AM

Its not rocket science. The more food you eat, the more you grow. Of course, protein is the building blocks for muscle. Id bet that if you started a thread asking the members here how much protein they eat a day, you'd see that 90+% of them would say over 250 grams ED, or 1-2 grams per pound
Good luck.

**taiboxa** · 09-05-2007, 11:20 AM

i prefer a 45/35/20 split P/C/F

i would avoid shakes as much as possible.

i would eat around 500 cal excess per day if not higher.

**mkrulic** · 09-05-2007, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by 440Charger

Everything ive read is in line with mkrulic at 1.5.-1.8 per kg of body weight....

where do you get your numbers? Whats others take on this?

My friend at the gym is getting some degree in physical fitness or something like that. I'll get the isbn of that book. the other book was the ace personal fitness manual. it was a 2 dollar book on amazon. said if excess protien is consumend you will store the amino acids as fat. also, unless you get your protien from beans you will take in more fat consuming excess protien. I'm going to give this lower protien a try on my off time and measure changes.

**440Charger** · 09-05-2007, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Johny-too-small

Its not rocket science. The more food you eat, the more you grow. Of course, protein is the building blocks for muscle. Id bet that if you started a thread asking the members here how much protein they eat a day, you'd see that 90+% of them would say over 250 grams ED, or 1-2 grams per pound
Good luck.

On the same note... The more you eat the more fat you get. I wana try to keep it as clean as possible... In the end excess protein gets stored the same as excess carbs..

**Johny-too-small** · 09-05-2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by 440Charger

On the same note... The more you eat the more fat you get. I wana try to keep it as clean as possible... In the end excess protein gets stored the same as excess carbs..

You're missing the whole point of why its essential to have a high protein intake.....

Anyway, its a fact that in order to bulk (lean or heavy) you will put on bf. if you want lbm.

Do it your way, I dont care. Im 9% b.f. and I eat 3200 kcals, 300+ grams protein ED and do only 60 minutes of cardio a week. Ive also gained 30 pounds in 16 months.

Good luck.

**440Charger** · 09-05-2007, 03:45 PM

Dont take it the wrong way.. Im not discrediting what you say. I just like to know why and where people get there info. Its just that everything I've read from text books and what not says otherwise...

I know Im not gonna bulk perfectly clean... I dont doubt that at all. But I want to do as close to perfect as I can. Thats why ill ask 1000 questions. Plus if I do cycle in decemeber I want to get the practice with the diet now because its even more important then....

If I were to do 2 g of protein per lb of bw that would set my macros at
40% protein/ 40% carb/ 20 % fat
3500 calories
360 protein/360 carbs/88 fat 1440/1440/700

3500 calories comes from the Benedict Formula. which put me between 2900-3300 range depending on how many workouts I get in. SO assuming I fall somewhere in te middle 3500 sounds like a nice number that should put me at a rate of 1/2 lb to a lb a week tops which anything more and Im probably putting on alot more fat than muscle.

As for when Ill eat when
Meals with carbs Breakfast, Pre workout shake, Post workout shake, And the meals around post work out. The morning snack and the late nightsnack will be mostly protein or / Protein and fat.

Hows that sound?

Thanks for the input. I appreciate the differnt views everyone has posted guys.

**B.E.N.** · 09-05-2007, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by mkrulic

My friend at the gym is getting some degree in physical fitness or something like that. I'll get the isbn of that book. the other book was the ace personal fitness manual. it was a 2 dollar book on amazon. said if excess protien is consumend you will store the amino acids as fat. also, unless you get your protien from beans you will take in more fat consuming excess protien. I'm going to give this lower protien a try on my off time and measure changes.

I would be interested to know your results. 1.8g/ kg of body weight would only be around 160g of protein for a 200 pound man???? Interesting...